2008-2009 Letter of Recommendation Thread

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I think much more required than a DO letter, say, is a "healthcare professional letter."

Basically what they're looking for is a current healthcare professional to say say "Cheezer has volunteered/shadowed/worked in <healthcare setting> for <time>. He has been <positive attributes that would make you a good doctor>. <Story that shows the previously made point>. I have no doubt (s)he will make a great physician. Please contact me if you have any questions.

What you'll hear is that a DO letter is not required but preferred. I and many many other people got into several schools with an MD letter. DMU even allows a nurse to fulfill this requirement. So get experience now and fast--I would even think about straight up explaining the situation to a local DO.

To be frank, if you have absolutely no clinical experience to draw from to get a letter out of, you're a litle behind the game at this point...down, but certainly not out.
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Hey guys,

I've applied to four Osteopathic schools, but don't have a LOR from a D.O., or a M.D. for that matter. I've applied to:

LECOM-Erie
NYCOM
PCOM
UMDNJ-SOM

You think that's gonna be a huge problem? Let me know....

jeff
 
Probably.. It's strongly recommended but who knows..
 
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Dr. Geoff said:
Hey guys,

I've applied to four Osteopathic schools, but don't have a LOR from a D.O., or a M.D. for that matter. I've applied to:

LECOM-Erie
NYCOM
PCOM
UMDNJ-SOM

You think that's gonna be a huge problem? Let me know....

jeff
Click to expand...

From the 2009 CIB: LECOM expects a letter from a non related DO, NYCOM recommends a DO letter, PCOM strongly advises a DO letter, and UNDNJ does not mention a physician letter, at all.

You're definitely not going to benefit from missing a DO letter, but it's not the end of the world. Do you have time to get one in the next month? Why didn't you get a letter, even if MD, from the cardiologist you shadowed?
 
This goes beyond your question, but in general, if you're wondering if such and such will be a huge problem for your app, a good rule of thumb is to assume it will be, and to do everything you can to correct it.

In this case, there really is no question. You should get a LOR. Failure to get one at this point is like calling it quits on the five yard line - you were almost there and then gave up. After all the time and expense of the MCAT, essays, etc. getting a LOR is one of the easiest parts of the process.

The key is just to find the right doc. A lot of times a doc will write you a letter after a relatively short period of shadowing, or even just tell you to write the letter and then they'll read it over and sign it.
 
Dr. Geoff said:
Hey guys,

I've applied to four Osteopathic schools, but don't have a LOR from a D.O., or a M.D. for that matter. I've applied to:

LECOM-Erie
NYCOM
PCOM
UMDNJ-SOM

You think that's gonna be a huge problem? Let me know....

jeff
Click to expand...

I've been noticing a trend that people on this forum are way too nice. While "being encouraging" is a good thing, there is also a point where giving people too much confidence can be detrimental.

Yes, not having a doc LOR is a huge problem. "Strongly recommends" means "REQUIRED" in adcom speak. If you have a 4.0, and a 35 MCAT, or you have like 600 years of clinical experience, they'll look the other way, which is why they don't put required. If you are a run-of-the-mill applicant, and you haven't even put out the effort to meet a few docs, talk to them about what they do, and find out what osteopathic medicine is, then why should they take their time on you? If you have a good MD letter, it's better than no letter at all, because at least you're putting yourself out there, and maybe there just aren't a lot of DOs in your area. If you are looking for somewhere to start, go to the your own primary care physician. Ask them if they wouldn't mind if you shadowed them, or if someone else in the office wouldn't mind. Most docs are fine with it.
It's still REALLY early in the application season. You have plenty of time to do this, and it really shows that you're going the full stretch and really putting 100% into your application
 
DragonWell said:
getting a LOR is one of the easiest parts of the process.
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Agree with the rest of your post except this. I actually think getting a DO LOR is one of the hardest part of the DO application process ... mainly because there are no set guidelines on how one goes about obtaining a DO letter. It involves finding a DO willing to let a premed shadow, and having that DO write a letter. It's very personal, one-on-one - and for a lot of people, this aspect of it can be very hard. For some, they might live in a state where DOs are relatively rare.


To the original poster - you will be disadvantaged. It will raise a few eyebrows on your application. If there are any blemishes on your application, not having a physician LOR will exacerbate the situation.

Ideally would be to get a DO LOR - it's hard but you are applying to DO schools - getting a DO LOR shows that 1. you are committed to osteopathic medicine since you put forth the effort to get a DO LOR and 2. you have talked to at least 1 DO about what osteopathic medicine is and is not (instead of getting it from websites, books, premed advisors), etc.


If you want to be a physician, make the extra effort and get at least a physician LOR. Thousands of other applicants already have (and you're competiting against them for admission).
 
Lecom will send you through the whole process, assuming you're a good candidate, and then not review your application until you get the letter. this includes interviewing. a good friend of mine who i'm living w/ next year did his interview in november but didn't find out until march because he didn't have a DO letter. as soon as he sent his letter in his file was complete and they mailed him a decision within the week. for lecom it's a requirement, plain and simple.
 
I had 2 MD's since I couldn't find any DOs, but I'd say osteopathic schools will absolutely tear you a new one for interviews if you don't. The question I was asked most was what do you know about osteopathic medicine, did you shadow a DO? etc.
 
"Most of us ask for advice when we know the answer but we want a different one."

Thanks guys, I appreciate the responses....

I am going to be shadowing a M.D. in a few weeks and I am going to ask him for a LOR. He has already read my PS and my mother knows him, so he kinda is already a little familiar with me. I think this will be best because I am applying to a bunch of allopathic schools too. I hope that this will be acceptable at the osteopathic schools as well. I have LOR's from 3 science prof, 1 non-science, and my Peace Corps country director, so I think a LOR from a Doc will be good. If I can get a letter from a D.O. as well, that'll be great, I'll see what I can do. Thanks again guys.

jeff
 
So this is my first time going through the LoR deal. Should I ask the professors, doctors, etc. that are writing my letters to just write general letters or do schools ask that their school is addressed specifically in the letter? In other words, do I have to have people write a separate letter for each school?


Thanks.
 
Fluorescent said:
So this is my first time going through the LoR deal. Should I ask the professors, doctors, etc. that are writing my letters to just write general letters or do schools ask that their school is addressed specifically in the letter? In other words, do I have to have people write a separate letter for each school?


Thanks.
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No, general letters are fine. All 6 of mine were general. Also, I don't know if your school has a LOR service or not, but I would forego using them and check out Interfolio: www.interfolio.com. :thumbup:

Good Luck:luck:
 
PCOM says they want a committee letter OR letter from pre-med advisor OR letter from dean of college you go to. I don't have a committee letter, how the hell would I know the dean unless perhaps I did something wrong, I have been on his list many times tho =P. So that leaves a pre-med advisor rec, well my pre-med advisor a) sucks b) won't respond to phone calls or emails from me. So I don't know if I should just give up on PCOM/PCOM-GA or what.:scared:
 
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Hi all,
PCOM seems like they really want a pre-med committee/pre-med advisor or academic advisor letter. Unfortunately, I didn't develop a particularly close relationship with any (I know I know, I should have) and so the letter (if I can get one) probably won't be any good. Is there a way to get out of this? I have plenty of letters from my science profs, can one of them substitute for this? Thank you all.
 
undecidedkev said:
Hi all,
PCOM seems like they really want a pre-med committee/pre-med advisor or academic advisor letter. Unfortunately, I didn't develop a particularly close relationship with any (I know I know, I should have) and so the letter (if I can get one) probably won't be any good. Is there a way to get out of this? I have plenty of letters from my science profs, can one of them substitute for this? Thank you all.
Click to expand...

At my school, the pre-med committee (comprised of the pre-med advisor and the biology advisor) actually interviews you to get material for their letter, as well as taking material from the other letters that you have written for you. If I were you I'd talk to the pre-med advisor about getting a letter. They are probably used to it as alot of schools look for these. I didn't get to know my advisors really at all, and they wrote for me (must have been good enough becuase I'm in).
 
our pre-med advisors will not write letters for the students... so I had mine call PCOM and talk to them about it.. they said "no problem".. but that was the last word I ever heard from them..
 
redrumi said:
PCOM says they want a committee letter OR letter from pre-med advisor OR letter from dean of college you go to. I don't have a committee letter, how the hell would I know the dean unless perhaps I did something wrong, I have been on his list many times tho =P. So that leaves a pre-med advisor rec, well my pre-med advisor a) sucks b) won't respond to phone calls or emails from me. So I don't know if I should just give up on PCOM/PCOM-GA or what.:scared:
Click to expand...

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=533519&highlight=PCOM

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=514615&highlight=PCOM+letter+dean

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=401245&highlight=PCOM+letter+dean

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=321302&highlight=PCOM+letter+dean

Good Luck! :luck:
 
I didn't have a committee letter. I just gave my professors an addressed and stamped envelope to send the letters to interfolio.

There are, however, a few schools that say "if your school has a committee, you must get a letter from them." I don't remember off hand though which schools those are.
 
undecidedkev said:
Hi all,
PCOM seems like they really want a pre-med committee/pre-med advisor or academic advisor letter. Unfortunately, I didn't develop a particularly close relationship with any (I know I know, I should have) and so the letter (if I can get one) probably won't be any good. Is there a way to get out of this? I have plenty of letters from my science profs, can one of them substitute for this? Thank you all.
Click to expand...

I tried that route, no luck. They sent me a note back stating that they where interested in me but wanted the academic adviser letter. Good luck
 
basically if your school has an advisor, it's in your best interest to get a letter from them. Not to say you won't get in without them, but it's a red flag and shows them you don't want to play the game!
 
spazzz said:
basically if your school has an advisor, it's in your best interest to get a letter from them. Not to say you won't get in without them, but it's a red flag and shows them you don't want to play the game!
Click to expand...

What if you don't? It's not fair to assume that all schools do! And how do they know which schools do/don't?
 
prionsRbad said:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=533519&highlight=PCOM

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=514615&highlight=PCOM+letter+dean

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=401245&highlight=PCOM+letter+dean

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=321302&highlight=PCOM+letter+dean

Good Luck! :luck:
Click to expand...

Thank you!

Another question: I majored in Biology and the head of the department is called Chair. The person with the title Dean is the Dean of the College of Arts & Sciences (which Biology is a part of, you all know that). So does PCOM want the letter from the Chair of the Department of Bio or the Dean of the College of AS? Thank you all.
 
I was reading posts from here, which sent me to a site about secondaries. Some of the schools seem to have their own letter to be sent with a LOR. What if you already have letters saved in interfolio, how can you now get them to complete the school's form to send with the LOR?
 
Cp22kjer said:
What if you don't? It's not fair to assume that all schools do! And how do they know which schools do/don't?
Click to expand...


if you don't have one, then you don't have one.

i'd like to see how many students are successful at PCOM w/o having a letter, either the shool not having a committee or they decided to bypass it. I was going to bypass it, until a teacher told me they don't really look at apps w/o them.
 
spazzz first you never answered me:

is that avatar from a My Bloody Valentine album cover? god I hope so.


My question lies here: okay so I am about to submit AACOMAS, everything is done, all transcripts recieved, awaiting MCAT 5/27 scores then submitting. My premed advisor also told me that my composite letter along with my eight individual references are now "available" on VirtualEVAL's the system that almost every MD/DO school uses.

My question is: will schools not even look at these in the Primary stage just because alot of people don't have them? (which in my case isn't true because they will be available" or do they just not look because it would be too time consuming? Thanks
 
.....................
 
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dude i dont blame you i just downloaded one of the "warmup" shows in London a few days ago at the ICA, jesus it is good, 24 min "Realise" they are really in top form


if i see them i'm gonna go to Roseland in NYC.
 
I majored in Biology and the head of the department is called Chair. The person with the title Dean is the Dean of the College of Arts & Sciences (which Biology is a part of, you all know that). So does PCOM want the letter from the Chair of the Department of Bio or the Dean of the College of AS? Thank you all.
 
undecidedkev said:
I majored in Biology and the head of the department is called Chair. The person with the title Dean is the Dean of the College of Arts & Sciences (which Biology is a part of, you all know that). So does PCOM want the letter from the Chair of the Department of Bio or the Dean of the College of AS? Thank you all.
Click to expand...
Kev-

I am getting my LOR from the DEAN of the College of Science.

The 2008 Osteopathic Medical College Info Book states for PCOM, "Letter of evaluation from the pre-medical committee, premedical advisor, or the Dean of the college granting the undergraduate degree."

If you are graduating from the College of Arts and Sciences...you should get the LOR from the Dean of the College of A&S.
 
undecidedkev said:
I majored in Biology and the head of the department is called Chair. The person with the title Dean is the Dean of the College of Arts & Sciences (which Biology is a part of, you all know that). So does PCOM want the letter from the Chair of the Department of Bio or the Dean of the College of AS? Thank you all.
Click to expand...

Yep, my understanding is what blondshell said below. It's basically a general letter saying that you're in good standing . . . it's not supposed to be personal.

Good Luck this cycle! :luck:

blondeshell15 said:
Kev-

I am getting my LOR from the DEAN of the College of Science.

The 2008 Osteopathic Medical College Info Book states for PCOM, "Letter of evaluation from the pre-medical committee, premedical advisor, or the Dean of the college granting the undergraduate degree."

If you are graduating from the College of Arts and Sciences...you should get the LOR from the Dean of the College of A&S.
Click to expand...
 
prionsRbad said:
Yep, my understanding is what blondshell said below. It's basically a general letter saying that you're in good standing . . . it's not supposed to be personal.

Good Luck this cycle! :luck:
Click to expand...

I was wondering if it was expected to be personal or not. I can get one from him but it would not be THAT personal!
 
Any problem with a LOR from a PGY-4 Sports Med. RESIDENT? He's had his D.O. degree for 4 years now, I think he counts!?
 
Cp22kjer said:
Any problem with a LOR from a PGY-4 Sports Med. RESIDENT? He's had his D.O. degree for 4 years now, I think he counts!?
Click to expand...
My physician letter is a from a MD who is a radiology resident. They just say DO/MD or physician, I don't see why a resident wouldn't qualify.
 
Hey guys, I am currently asking professors and doctors for letters. I'm more than a little confused about a few things. Do the secondary applications that the schools send us have letter forms that the recommender's have to use? Should i just ask the writers to use their own stationery and then send it to the institutions I select? Doesn't propriety necessitate that I have to pay for mailing the letter? I suppose I don't exactly know how to send out the letters...any help is greatly appreciated, as always. Oh and do we need a waiver form (the ones that indicate confidentiality) if we just ask the letter writer to send it him/herself to the institution?


thanks guys
 
I just had each person write on their own stationary (professional -- school work.. etc.) and send it back to me.. they were then photocopied and mailed out.. and yes, you should pay all costs associated with the mailing of the letters. To mail back to me I gave all reccomenders pre-paid envelopes with stamps to use to mail back to me in.
 
zapatistasup said:
Hey guys, I am currently asking professors and doctors for letters. I'm more than a little confused about a few things. Do the secondary applications that the schools send us have letter forms that the recommender's have to use? Should i just ask the writers to use their own stationery and then send it to the institutions I select? Doesn't propriety necessitate that I have to pay for mailing the letter? I suppose I don't exactly know how to send out the letters...any help is greatly appreciated, as always. Oh and do we need a waiver form (the ones that indicate confidentiality) if we just ask the letter writer to send it him/herself to the institution?


thanks guys
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Mos def use Interfolio.

Yes, some schools have letter forms. Check with the schools to which you are applying. Otherwise you'll probably have to have the letter writers fill out something else later for some schools.

Setup Interfolio and send the writers a request for a letter. Then they upload it and you dictate where it goes, while remaining confidential. This should take away the need for a confidentiality release. But, yeah, if you had the writers send them directly to the school, you also wouldn't need a confidentiality release, unless it was one of the forms provided by the school.

Yes you should be the one to pay for mailing the letters. You'll pay per delivery via Interfolio.
 
You're not supposed to see the letters, so they can't come from you. I would set up an Interfolio account (at interfolio.com) and get an LOR request form for each of your letter writers (which includes the confidentiality waiver). Print it out and give it to them inside a stamped envelope so they can put the letter with it and send it directly to Interfolio. I wouldn't tell them to upload. Some professors aren't comfortable enough with computers and you'll have a bigger delay in getting them than if you just hand them an envelope and let them snail mail it in.

They should use their own stationary/letterhead.

Don't forget, after they send the letter and Interfolio notifies you it's been received, to send the professor a thank-you note for their effort.

As far as schools using their own forms, I'm honestly annoyed by that. Why is it necessary to fill out a form when the standard is letters? It isn't like they can't call my letter writers should they want more information. It's a huge PITA -- for the students and the professors, especially since it's summer and many professors aren't available until the fall -- to go back to professors and say, "by the way, I now need you to fill out three different forms."
 
Revilla said:
As far as schools using their own forms, I'm honestly annoyed by that. Why is it necessary to fill out a form when the standard is letters? It isn't like they can't call my letter writers should they want more information. It's a huge PITA -- for the students and the professors, especially since it's summer and many professors aren't available until the fall -- to go back to professors and say, "by the way, I now need you to fill out three different forms."
Click to expand...

Amen.
 
Man you guys are helpful...wish i found this site earlier. Rev - i cant hand my prof's an envelope because they are all out of state right now - ones on sabbatical in the UK. So i suppose i should definitely ask them to upload the letters, unless i want to send them the forms and then have them send it from wherever they are, which would take a lot of time...right?
 
What does KCUMB require as far as LORs? I can't seem to find in on their website, and I've searched the KCUMB discussion forum here to no avail.
 
Am I the only one pissed that some schools can't just take letters and require a form to be filled out??? I planned to have all secondaries completed by August. Fat chance since my profs are gone until Fall. Why not just follow the standard? Is it just to be ornery? I don't get the benefit to LOR forms except to watch the frustration level of pre-meds escalate.
 
My school required them to be filled in. If you haven't talked with your professors yet, how were you going to get the letters done by August? If you've already talked with them, see if you can't fax them a copy of this form ASAP so they can write the letter and send it to your pre-med office. Then, work on your secondaries and continually check on your professors and the office until they're all in.

It's a burden, yes, but some schools require it. Just take it one step at a time and work to get your stuff submitted as soon as you can.

Good luck.
 
I know what you mean! I was wondering the same thing to, why they could not just accept a letter. You should call the schools you are applying to and make sure that form is the only option. Maybe they will just take a letter from your teacher.
 
I'm guessing you are referring to MSU-COM since they are the only school that doesn't accept interfolio?

I'm not sure why anyone OOS would bother touching this school and its tuition with a 10 ft pole. I guess the chance for IS is high enough maybe they just want to make you jump through one extra hoop? Who knows, I don't really understand it either...

Edit: Oh are we talking UG here? I'm totally confused
 
BCLumas said:
My school required them to be filled in. If you haven't talked with your professors yet, how were you going to get the letters done by August? If you've already talked with them, see if you can't fax them a copy of this form ASAP so they can write the letter and send it to your pre-med office. Then, work on your secondaries and continually check on your professors and the office until they're all in.
Click to expand...

My letters are all done! I've had an Interfolio account since November and had all my letters collected by April so that come July, I didn't have to run around like a chicken with his head cut off. Everything was done early for this reason.
 
Even if your school doesn't have a relationship with Interfolio, why can't you just mail it to them using interfolio?
 
MLT2MT2DO said:
I'm guessing you are referring to MSU-COM since they are the only school that doesn't accept interfolio?
Click to expand...

This has nothing to do with Interfolio. Some schools require profs to fill out evaluation forms in lieu of letters of recommendation. It's frustrating as hell for those of us who wanted to get our secondaries in right away!
 
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