2-Year Fellowships vs. Pain Medicine Residency

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navs

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I remember reading in an earlier post that the "pain people" were considering making the fellowship a 2 yr. deal, instead of the current 1 yr. Anybody have any insight on that??

Also, any comments about the field would be appreciated.

Thanks.

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Hey Navs,

Yeah...this is actually what I've heard on the interview trail...especially at Brigham and Hopkins, where their pain practices are getting to be very big. I think the breakdown probably has to do with: a) giving the two year track for academic pain people, so that some degree of research can be done, and b) slowing down the number of pain professionals that are entering into the industry. The two year fellowship will eventually be a reality, though how long we are away from it being an issue for board certification is beyond me. I think THE REAL REASON it's being done, is to separate the interventionalists from the non-interventionalists.

The future of the field, is similar to any field that is highly lucrative. Medicare and medicaid reimbursement for the field will decrease. You cannot make too much money in medicine no matter what you do, because the feds will be all over you. They've been getting away with it for awhile, but in the end...we will get hammered.

NOW...IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR ON THE OTHER HAND...pain is and always will be extremely lucrative. It really depends how you structure your practice...but...you can do a lot of fee for service work in this field. This of course is dependant on how many pain physicians are in the area, how much fee for service work you can do; whether you do workman's comp or physical disability work. There are a lot of avenues for monetary compensation in pain. More people don't go into it because of the psychosomatic issues that exist with all manner of pain patients, and also because it is basically clinic work. That can't be denied.

Now, the ugliest part of all this...is that a horrid turf war is set to begin. PM&R and anesthesia will be fighting for dollars. Non-interventional pain (which most PM&R fellowships in pain used to be..) is not as lucrative as interventional pain (in general), a field that anesthesia tends to control. Anesthesia basically allowed non-anesthesia personnel to match into pain fellowships because of the dearth of anesthesiologists to begin with....in five to ten years when that dearth is far less...anesthesia will want to give those fellowships to anesthesia grads. Well..I think you can see where this is headed. I don't want to make any predicitions because perception is always ugly when it comes to these issues...but suffice it to say, we don't know who the clear winners will be till they are determined. Pain is a lucrative practice...and in the private world will always continue to be (on the order of private rad onc if not private derm surg). The number of positions however...will be less in the future, if not static. Hope that helps.
 
This is a thread from a Pain Management discussion forum on Physicians Online. Thought it might be relevant to this discussion...

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These issues underscore the need for true board certification in interventional pain medicine. I think that pain medicine should only be practiced by fellowshiped trained practitioners---anesthesiology or physiatry---as part of a multimodal, interdisciplinary PAIN PROGRAM including psychologists, PT/OT, etc. Interventional procedures in the abscence of comprehensive pain programs short-changes patients.

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I think that the problem goes deeper than fellowship training. Let's face it, pain is usually a symptom of disease. In most instances - thank god- it's not a disease in and of itself. Moreover, if you look at chronic nonmalignant pain as a whole you will find that about 50% of it derives from spine and musculoskeletal diseases.

This being said, you can't take a guy - Anesthesiology Resident - who has no training in spine, neurophysiology, or musculoskeletal disease put him in a procedural based pain fellowship program and have him pop out a year later an "expert" in the treatment of these diseases. The whole whole premise is conceptually flawed.

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We are all physicians and as such we treat disease, not the symtoms of disease. However, when you read the postings here you can't help but note the lack of understanding of the basic pathophysiology of spine and musculoskeletal diseases. There is a reason for this. It's because the focus of a "pain doctor" is on the symptom. This leads to all kinds of confusing philosophies.

I would suggest you consdier PM&R. PM&R would be the way to go for what it sounds like you are seeking. Consider the training in electrodiagnostic medicine, peripheral nerve injury, spine, spine pain management, MRI, plain film and CT (not just is the chest films). Conside the the global perspective on recovery, deconditioning, neurovascular reconditioning, autonomic, bowel and bladder management. I respectfully point out the fact that any chimpanzee can learn to drive a needle much the same way anyone can learn to shoot a gun. The though process and ramifications behind shooting are what takes real training. I have 2 partners who are neurosurgeons and we have an excellent relationship. Yes, I collect their trash from time to time, but I know it's coming and they take my trash as well. I also do foot and ankle mechanics from all the people who leave the DPM and the anesthesia/injectionist. I do the EMG confirm it's not radic, confirm it's not peroneal neuroapthy or gen peripheral neuropathy, or tarsal tunnel or lateral plantar nerve entrapement. If it is, I treat it, if not I modify the orthotics to change the mechanics up to the knee and hip and they get better. Then, their FP comes to see me with the same problem. If it's radicular, I know what level and what the prognosis is for the motor recovery based on the CMAP amplitudes (relfection of axon loss vs. conduction block) and I can do the transforamenal epidural under fluoro and measure straight leg raising after the marcaine is bathing the nerve root.

Plus, I also do Botox for CP, CVA, trigger points, manual manipulation (good income if you are a DO, or just a motivated MD) TBI, SCI management and heavy neuropsychology cross over (grade your own MMPI and oswestry scores.)

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I am a Physiatrist and did a two year fellowship in musculoskeletal, spine and sports medicine. Currently practicing all outpatient, mostly spine. I am about to start a salaried (with little incentive) 100% spine medicine position. I do not consider myself as pain management specialist. I do not have adequate training and interest to qualify for this. My training and interest and skill qualify me as spine medicine doc. Though I treat acute and chronic spinal pain, but sometimes I come to a point when I feel a pain fellowship trained specialist will be able to help the patient more than me and at that point I would like to refer the patient to pain management. I found that some chronic pain management specialists are not too happy to take them.

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I would agree with the other poster. I am not a pain specialist, I am an interventional physiatrist with specialization in spine and electrodiagnostics. I have heavy training in these arenas as well as pain. But occasionally I will encounter chronic non-nociceptive or 'centralized' pain in the course of my workups. (It goes without saying that my workup includes fluorocopic diagnostics.) When I discover this affliction, I can assure you that I will send it to you. After all, you have identified yourself as a "pain specialist".

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It comes down to simple dolars and cents. If I do Pain, I need to make money. You don't make money in medicine doing E&M codes. While I'm willing to do my share, if you want to take all the procedure codes (i.e. everything that may actually make money) and dump the patient on to me after you've finished the walletectomy, I'm sorry, I'm not going to be happy. Now, if I were a Psychiatrist or some other non-interventionalist, that would be fine.

Perhaps it is also simply that you are in direct competition with the "Pain" docs for the good (i.e. money making) procedures and they don't like it. I'm lucky enough to be the only interventionalist around (which has it's draw backs when you reach you personal limits, as you'll see in a later thread.)

I'm sorry this explanation doesn't sit well with everyone, but I'm in this business for the money, as are most of us whether we admit it or not. I certainly don't do things I feel are medically unsound or out of my range of competency to make money, and I enjoy helping my patients, but if I won the powerball tomorrow, I wouldn't be comming back to work.

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There have been overtures towards establishing a residency program in pain medicine for the past several years through the American Board of Pain Medicine that has actually developed a curriculum for the process. However, the ABA staunchly opposes any incursion into the dilution of their fellowship positions through establishment of a pain residency. Because most who teach in academics have never practiced outside of academics, there develops a culture of insular self-rightousness among attendings utilizing the reasoning that "what we teach is all that is important in pain medicine. ". Most attendings in academia have never attended an ISIS course, an ASIPP course, or a PASSOR course, since it is assumed they have sufficient knowledge in the field and need no further training. Of course pain medicine is not a stoic field with few changes occuring slowly over time as is anesthesiology, therefore a year without attending conferences on advances in pain medicine can leave one quite far behind.
Based on national survey results of a survey of pain fellows I conducted in 2004, there is a significant deficit in knowledge in many areas on the month of finished the pain fellowships. These included deficits in posture/gait/muscular function analysis, practice finance and practice operation, outpatient functional restoration, chronic return patient mangagement, xray interpretation, and MRI interpretation.
The ABMS has specific requirements for board certification, one of which is the demonstration of a distinct branch of medicine from other branches and the presence of a residency program. Therefore ABMS board certification in pain medicine (not the "additional qualifications certification") would require the development of a residency program first. The residency program cannot be developed without the blessing of the directors of residency programs from other residencies (eg. anesthesiology, PM&R, etc). Emergency medicine required 8 years to develop their residency program and that was with significant input from a variety of other specialties defining what they could and could not do in their sphere of practice. These guidelines were called "clinical pathways" and were developed by other specialists to prevent emergency physicians from straying too far from treating emergencies and insuring the specialists would not be cut out of the loop of patient treatment. With pain medicine, no such pathways are possible due to the American Society of Anesthesiology and American Board of Anesthesiology positions that a one year training program is enough to supply a physician with all he will need for clinical practice. Unlike other subspecialties as vascular surgery being a fellowship of surgery, pulmonology is a branch of internal medicine, etc, pain medicine is a branch of many specialties that are of competing and opposing viewpoints on the treatment of pain. Pain medicine is related to anesthesiology, but is more related to PM&R and neurology if you discount the "block jocks" who run mills without ever making a diagnosis (effectively continuing on in the course defined by anesthesiology) and do not want any long term relationships with patients (also consistent with the anesthesia model of the briefest possible encounters). The success of anesthesia in batting nearly 1000 all the time cannot be transferred to pain medicine in which there are many possible diagnoses that require significant numbers of recurrent visits to diagnose and treat, and even under the best of situations batting 500 is an excellent outcome for pain medicine. Anesthesiologists continue to think along the lines of standing at the plate batting one after another out of the park, never having to run the bases. We run bases in pain medicine. We strike out. We hit a lot of foul balls. Anesthesiologists do not, and therefore the simplistic transfer of patient care models from OR anesthesia to pain medicine is a setup for failure and frustration. Certainly one cannot make such a radical transformation in thinking and approach after one year of training, but this is exactly what is demanded by pain fellowship programs.
We have not yet reached the threshhold of frustration by those who matriculate from fellowship programs that encourge continued thinking like an anesthesiologist, largely because the insurance carriers are still paying their $400 for a 4 minute epidural block without requiring any standards or criteria be met. The block jocks therefore continue to stick needles in up to 50 patients a day without applying any ethics or medical science to what they are doing, since they know no better. This is what the fellowship programs have produced and what the insurance companies (so far) continue to foster. It won't last forever. At that point when the insurance industry clamps down on the overperformance of endless blocks without medical justification, hopefully we will see these block jocks make the transition back into OR anesthesia where they belong. Then perhaps we will develop a comprehensive pain medicine residency that teaches all facets of pain medicine.
 
Couldn't agree more. Very well put. We have to remind ourselves from time to time the reasons why we went into medicine - to help people. The chronic pain patients are certainly not easy to deal with but are we partially responsible for their behavior because of our lack of knowlege about chronic pain. Much research is to be done regarding diagnosis and treatment. I propose that 1/2 - 1 year of research should be incorporated into the residency, say like many neurosurgery programs. I hate to say that many existing programs now will be oppose to the idea because of financial issues. Any ideas on lobbying financial support from the government?
 
I agree wholeheartedly in that it's difficult to expect a resident to "change gears" so to speak when transitioning from a ANES or PM&R resident to a Pain Medicine specialist over the course of one year. I hardly believe that what took a PM&R(or Neuro) resident 3+ years to perfect in the art of neurophysical exam skills, can be learned by an ANES resident in one year(in addition to the knowledge and art of pain management).

Many of us in PM&R(and Neurology) realized that during our residency we were "pain doctors" all along. We just hadn't realized it. The post-op arthroplasty patient, the stroke patient with shoulder pain, the spinal cord patient with neuropathic pain...these patients all trained us to think in a way of treating pain to maximize function. And it is these experience which help shape our perceptions of patients with pain, and how to approach them.

So the question is would medical students choose to do a residency based solely in Pain Medicine if given the opportunity? How long should the residency be? 3 yrs? 4 yrs?

It's unfortunate that the very people that abuse the payment/billing system and are making hand over fist in dividends will be the ones that eventually incite the insurance companies to clamp down on us all, making it more difficult for patients to get appropriate and timely care. It would be better if we could "police" our own community before they get involved. But that would require academia to have a more forceful and educated voice.
 
algosdoc said:
There have been overtures towards establishing a residency program in pain medicine for the past several years through the American Board of Pain Medicine that has actually developed a curriculum for the process. However, the ABA staunchly opposes any incursion into the dilution of their fellowship positions through establishment of a pain residency. Because most who teach in academics have never practiced outside of academics, there develops a culture of insular self-rightousness among attendings utilizing the reasoning that "what we teach is all that is important in pain medicine. ". Most attendings in academia have never attended an ISIS course, an ASIPP course, or a PASSOR course, since it is assumed they have sufficient knowledge in the field and need no further training. Of course pain medicine is not a stoic field with few changes occuring slowly over time as is anesthesiology, therefore a year without attending conferences on advances in pain medicine can leave one quite far behind.
Based on national survey results of a survey of pain fellows I conducted in 2004, there is a significant deficit in knowledge in many areas on the month of finished the pain fellowships. These included deficits in posture/gait/muscular function analysis, practice finance and practice operation, outpatient functional restoration, chronic return patient mangagement, xray interpretation, and MRI interpretation.
The ABMS has specific requirements for board certification, one of which is the demonstration of a distinct branch of medicine from other branches and the presence of a residency program. Therefore ABMS board certification in pain medicine (not the "additional qualifications certification") would require the development of a residency program first. The residency program cannot be developed without the blessing of the directors of residency programs from other residencies (eg. anesthesiology, PM&R, etc). Emergency medicine required 8 years to develop their residency program and that was with significant input from a variety of other specialties defining what they could and could not do in their sphere of practice. These guidelines were called "clinical pathways" and were developed by other specialists to prevent emergency physicians from straying too far from treating emergencies and insuring the specialists would not be cut out of the loop of patient treatment. With pain medicine, no such pathways are possible due to the American Society of Anesthesiology and American Board of Anesthesiology positions that a one year training program is enough to supply a physician with all he will need for clinical practice. Unlike other subspecialties as vascular surgery being a fellowship of surgery, pulmonology is a branch of internal medicine, etc, pain medicine is a branch of many specialties that are of competing and opposing viewpoints on the treatment of pain. Pain medicine is related to anesthesiology, but is more related to PM&R and neurology if you discount the "block jocks" who run mills without ever making a diagnosis (effectively continuing on in the course defined by anesthesiology) and do not want any long term relationships with patients (also consistent with the anesthesia model of the briefest possible encounters). The success of anesthesia in batting nearly 1000 all the time cannot be transferred to pain medicine in which there are many possible diagnoses that require significant numbers of recurrent visits to diagnose and treat, and even under the best of situations batting 500 is an excellent outcome for pain medicine. Anesthesiologists continue to think along the lines of standing at the plate batting one after another out of the park, never having to run the bases. We run bases in pain medicine. We strike out. We hit a lot of foul balls. Anesthesiologists do not, and therefore the simplistic transfer of patient care models from OR anesthesia to pain medicine is a setup for failure and frustration. Certainly one cannot make such a radical transformation in thinking and approach after one year of training, but this is exactly what is demanded by pain fellowship programs.
We have not yet reached the threshhold of frustration by those who matriculate from fellowship programs that encourge continued thinking like an anesthesiologist, largely because the insurance carriers are still paying their $400 for a 4 minute epidural block without requiring any standards or criteria be met. The block jocks therefore continue to stick needles in up to 50 patients a day without applying any ethics or medical science to what they are doing, since they know no better. This is what the fellowship programs have produced and what the insurance companies (so far) continue to foster. It won't last forever. At that point when the insurance industry clamps down on the overperformance of endless blocks without medical justification, hopefully we will see these block jocks make the transition back into OR anesthesia where they belong. Then perhaps we will develop a comprehensive pain medicine residency that teaches all facets of pain medicine.

You sound like an idiot! Anesthesiologists are not the only "needle jocks" out there. Don't be deluded, there many specialties out there greedily vying for the big bucks. I recently finished a pain fellowship where the fellow physiatrist was "injection hungry" and ignored giving proper neuropathic pain meds to patients needing them. Here is a narrow minded, money hungry physiatrist not practicing appropriate pain management. Guilty by omission, so please, don't generalize about anesthesiologists trained in pain management. If it were not for us you wouldn't know what a needle is. Instead of fighting us you should help us fight the deluge of CRNA's who want to practice pain management. You really pissed me off!
 
Back on Topic!

We have discussed this several times on this board. Patients would be better served, in my opinion, if they had physicians trained in a PM residency.
1 year GS or IM or transitional prelim and 3 years PM. The hairs can be split over how to divide up the next 3 years just as long as it includes outpatient Physiatry, Ortho spine, Neuro spine, Msk Radiology, Inpatient pain on an acute service, Cancer pain with palliative care, Neurology for HA, Rheumatology, and the rest as dedicated time in a pain practice. I feel this will not happen in my lifetime as the heads of departments and the people in Pain politics would be less interested in the quality of care their patients receive than in what their department can do for their hospital or University.

As an assistant program director I would love to have clsoer ties to the University for the acute side of things and their fellows would love my interventional exposure.
 
We all have different perspectives and therein lies the problem. For example, I'd recommend the following: gen surg internship, one year anesth (acute pain, epidurals, regional, sedation and airway mgmt), one year PM&R (MSK/spine, outpt physiatry and rehab), one year neuro (imaging, headache, neuropathies, central pain syndromes, pain related neuro anatomy and neurophys, EMG/NCS), and one year interventional/comprehensive pain mgmt. You could have 1-2 electives per year for cancer, rheumatology, ortho, neurosurg, etc. I know that's a 5 year residency, but the pathway is 5 years already.

I know there are those who think that physiatry is the best training for pain, however I don't necessarily agree. I was fortunate in that my program was very multidisciplinary. My faculty included a couple of GREAT physiatrists and one of the other fellows in my group was a physiatrist, also well trained and from a big name program. For very obvious reasons, I do see the value of including physiatry, however, it is not the be all or end all of pain management. Before some of you barrage me with angry retort, know that I interviewed at your programs and chose to go elsewhere because they were too focused on interventions and/or there was no inpatient exposure, and/or there was evidence of inadequate training in anything not isolated to the spine, etc. Just know that some of us expect more from our fellowship training.
 
CRNAs are a growing problem, but we must clean up our own house at the same time. It is naive to think anesthesiology training somehow translates to pain medicine capabilities...they are completely different specialties. Needles have been used long before anesthesiologists came along, and the specialty has done little to promote safe use via fluoroscopy use for confirmation. Blind injection skills have little relationship to skills used in pain medicine. It is exactly that misconception that are causing CRNAs to make their way into pain medicine.
 
algosdoc said:
CRNAs are a growing problem, but we must clean up our own house at the same time. It is naive to think anesthesiology training somehow translates to pain medicine capabilities...they are completely different specialties. Needles have been used long before anesthesiologists came along, and the specialty has done little to promote safe use via fluoroscopy use for confirmation. Blind injection skills have little relationship to skills used in pain medicine. It is exactly that misconception that are causing CRNAs to make their way into pain medicine.

not to incite too much rancor, but one of my pet peeves about the anesthesia vs. pmr debate is that anesthesia is the "best" bc it has been around longer. i do acknowledge that they were injecting earlier... but injecting earlier into the dark, great. it has only been in the last 5 plus years that well-designed spine intervention studies using flouro have showed us the light.... and thereby where our injections need to go to be effective. now the injections are being done correctly, not blindly. just bc pmr is new on the block doesn't make it the necessary lightweight. (we do, however, need to represent better in the peer-reviewed literature; thanks to ISIS that is occuring).

one other shout out for pmr-- IMHO, our specialty does have a unique perspective that is less hierarchical than most, if not all specialties. we know it takes a village to take care of a severely disabled patient (much like a chronic pain patient). we are taught from day one to take a multi-disciplinary view of patient care. all pmr docs recall weekly inpatient team conferences with: PT, OT, speech, voc rehab, nursing, resp, social work, recreational therapy, psych, MDs, and so forth.

moreover, until very recently, pmr was the lowest prestige specialty of all specialties. it was also the specialty w/ the largest proportion of women. the only other specialty w/ more women was preventive medicine. docs drawn to pmr didn't come for prestige, lots of money, etc, usually they had a defining personal or professional experience which made them want to work w/ patients w/ chronic illness or disability.

now our specialty is hot stuff, harvard got approx 250 apps for 6 spots a few years ago. apparently our match got more competitive than ED. i am concerned that our field may stray from its core, interdisciplinary values to caring for the chronically ill/disabled. If they do come to pmr, I hope that our good stuff will rub off on the wanna be spine surgeons, orthopods, etc. again, an interdisciplinary approach to spine and chronic pain is well-seated in pmr's core values.

all this being said, i firmly believe that pmr and anesthesia have much to learn from each other. i agree about a 2 year fellowship or perhaps moving towards a pain residency.

okay midnite is late enuf to be at this rant-o-rama. :sleep:
 
algosdoc said:
CRNAs are a growing problem, but we must clean up our own house at the same time. It is naive to think anesthesiology training somehow translates to pain medicine capabilities...they are completely different specialties. Needles have been used long before anesthesiologists came along, and the specialty has done little to promote safe use via fluoroscopy use for confirmation. Blind injection skills have little relationship to skills used in pain medicine. It is exactly that misconception that are causing CRNAs to make their way into pain medicine.

You still don't it and you keep generalizing about anesthesiology. Don't make statements about a specialty you apparently know very little about. Anesthesiology pain programs do not promote blind injections- where do you get this stuff from? Have you had a DAU lately? You sound envious anesthesiology had the courage to pioneer pain medicine and PMR did nothing until recently when the big money came into play. We have a PMR attending in our program and thus far there has been no benefit for the fellowship program. Aside from not working very hard he is indistinguishable from the other pain anesthesiologists just as 98% of D.O.'s are indistinguishable from M.D.'s. You are correct in that we All have to clean up our own house. Unfortunately, people as yourself don't help matters much. You only effectively and unproductively incite others. I don't know what kind of sheltered life you have lead or if you are angry because you got beat up in school. My suggestion to you is to grow up and fight the real enemy. Don't denigrate you fellow physicians. Your senseless comments about CRNAs entering pain management is a misconception on your part not theirs. I would hate to go to war with you on the same side for fear of you shooting me in the back.
 
From previous posts, I believe Algosdoc is an anesthesiologist, formerly part of a university pain faculty.

Perhaps your chairman made a poor choice in the physiatrist that was hired. If you really want to see what Physiatrists can contribute to "pain" medicine, I suggest you visit an academic spine center. U Penn, Emory and CINN in Chicago immediately come to mind.

I found it amusing that during fellowship interviews, many Anesthesia faculty members that interviewed me were under the impression that I spent 3 years watching stroke patients do laps around the PT gym. I guess this is Physiatry's fault for keeping ourselves closed off from the rest of the medical world for so long.

As it presently stands, many PM&R programs provide substantial "pain" training (though somewhat more Orthopaedically and functionally based) during residency, including training in basic spinal injections. Yes, we come out of residency with holes in our knowledge and skills, but a solid base is there.
 
realphysician said:
You still don't it and you keep generalizing about anesthesiology. Don't make statements about a specialty you apparently know very little about. Anesthesiology pain programs do not promote blind injections- where do you get this stuff from? Have you had a DAU lately? You sound envious anesthesiology had the courage to pioneer pain medicine and PMR did nothing until recently when the big money came into play. We have a PMR attending in our program and thus far there has been no benefit for the fellowship program. Aside from not working very hard he is indistinguishable from the other pain anesthesiologists just as 98% of D.O.'s are indistinguishable from M.D.'s. You are correct in that we All have to clean up our own house. Unfortunately, people as yourself don't help matters much. You only effectively and unproductively incite others. I don't know what kind of sheltered life you have lead or if you are angry because you got beat up in school. My suggestion to you is to grow up and fight the real enemy. Don't denigrate you fellow physicians. Your senseless comments about CRNAs entering pain management is a misconception on your part not theirs. I would hate to go to war with you on the same side for fear of you shooting me in the back.

Realphysician,

I'd like to remind you about the PainRounds User Agreement.

User's Agreement and FAQs

Discussion of contentious and controversial topics is welcomed, but the tenor and tone of the debate should be at the level of a spirited academic or professional conference and not a pissing contest.

Harassment and Flaming

The Student Doctor Network members are not permitted to harass or "flame" other members. Please do not post or transmit any unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, profane, hateful, racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable material of any kind, including, but not limited to, any material which encourages conduct that would constitute a criminal offense, violate the rights of others, or otherwise violate any applicable local, state, national or international law. Please note that this also includes the posting of taunts on a forum solely for the purpose of deriding that forum's topic and/or members.


The PainRounds and SDN community takes a lot of pride in maintaining a stimulating and interesting online community based upon mutual respect for conflicting points of view. There is nothing wrong with good-natured chiding, but frankly, your "calling out" senior members without knowing their background and expertise really makes you look bad. Maybe you should have read some of Algos' posts before jumping to conclusions. Please continue to contribute to the conversation in a more courteous manner.

How we (physicians) treat each other as colleagues matters. It what separates us from the lawyers.
 
drusso said:
Realphysician,

I'd like to remind you about the PainRounds User Agreement.

User's Agreement and FAQs

Discussion of contentious and controversial topics is welcomed, but the tenor and tone of the debate should be at the level of a spirited academic or professional conference and not a pissing contest.

Harassment and Flaming

The Student Doctor Network members are not permitted to harass or "flame" other members. Please do not post or transmit any unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, profane, hateful, racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable material of any kind, including, but not limited to, any material which encourages conduct that would constitute a criminal offense, violate the rights of others, or otherwise violate any applicable local, state, national or international law. Please note that this also includes the posting of taunts on a forum solely for the purpose of deriding that forum's topic and/or members.


The PainRounds and SDN community takes a lot of pride in maintaining a stimulating and interesting online community based upon mutual respect for conflicting points of view. There is nothing wrong with good-natured chiding, but frankly, your "calling out" senior members without knowing their background and expertise really makes you look bad. Maybe you should have read some of Algos' posts before jumping to conclusions. Please continue to contribute to the conversation in a more courteous manner.

How we (physicians) treat each other as colleagues matters. It what separates us from the lawyers.

I see no harassment or flaming.
 
paindefender said:
I see no harassment or flaming.

Gee...maybe it was this, "I don't know what kind of sheltered life you have lead or if you are angry because you got beat up in school. My suggestion to you is to grow up and fight the real enemy. Don't denigrate your fellow physicians."

Exactly how is that advancing the topic?
 
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