~2.8sGPA ~2.9cGPA.. Studying for the 1/30/09 MCAT.. NEED ADVISE

[ktal4haider2015]

Hello everyone.
I am a senior, bio major, but I've gotten some horrible grades during my undergrad..
chem 1a - C
chem 1b - B
chem 1c - B
bio 5a - C+ ( B in the lab)
bio 5b - C
bio 5c - C
ochem 110a - C
ochem 110b - B
ochem 110c - C-
physics 2a - C ( B in lab)
physics 2b - C+ (A in lab)
physics 2c - B+ (A in lab)
calc 1a - B
calc 2b - B
stats - A
genetics - C
biochem - A-

The one perk that I've found is that I've never failed a class... I've withdrawn from 2.. but I've never had an F.. so I guess that's good in a way.
Also, I haven't been able to come back to school for this year.. so I haven't been able to take any more classes. Now I am determined to got straight As.. and I know that I have the potential due to the fact that I know that when I focus.. I can get the good grades..
to tell you the truth, I just let social circumstances get in the way of my grades.. and I won't do that anymore..
I plan on doing at LEAST 4 more quarters.. which will have 2 upper division sciences each.. and get only A's.. I know it'll be hard.. but I also know I can do it..
OK, now, my questions is: IF I get a 30+ MCAT score, do you think it would be a good idea for me to apply this year? Or should I apply next year, and take more classes during the year while the application process is going on?
PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU THINK..

oh.. i do have a strong EC background.. so that's not an issue.

Thanks..

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[Thrombomodulin]

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[Ailleurs]

You should not apply, nor should you take the MCAT. You will be wasting your money, as you would be unable to gain an acceptance to medical school. Your current grades suggest you will have difficulty managing the rigorous courseload in medical school. Spend 2-4 years trying to repair your GPA. You will need near-perfection from this point forward if you want to attend medical school.

Your chances of receiving an acceptance are near zero unless you improve your GPA to a 3.4 or better.

That's a little bit harsh don't you think?

I do think that you need to take a bunch of science classes (start slowly, with 2 at a time for example) and do your best to get A's in those. You CAN start studying for the MCAT, but try to push it back to a later date. I think you should spend about 3-4 months, hardcore studying for the MCAT. You can check out all the best way to prep in the MCAT discussion thread. I doubt it's near zero below 3.4, although it would be rather low. Just for now, try to get it above a 3.0

 

[Mobius1985]

IF I get a 30+ MCAT score, do you think it would be a good idea for me to apply this year?

No.

Do the math. After three years (I'm assuming), you've earned a 2.9 GPA. It will take three more years of straight A classwork to get you to a near 3.5 GPA. That is still below the mean of 3.65 for acceptees to allopathic (MD) med schools, but might get you in if your MCAT is 32+.

The mean GPA for osteopathic (DO) med schools is about 3.4. You wouldn't need to repair your GPA for as long if you decide to go that route. Further, if you retake a class with a bad grade, their application service will replace the bad grade with the new one, thus allowing your application GPA to rise faster. Their mean MCAT would be 24. If you get a higher score, your GPA wouldn't need to be as high, but I still think you'll need 1.5 years of excellent grades to prove to adcomms you''d survive in a science-intense environment like med school.

 

[Thrombomodulin]

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[cbrons]

what about a grad program? take the GRE, get a masters in something while taking a few classes over again?

Don't feel down OP, hope is not lost. It may not happen this year but give it some time and it will if you want it badly enough.

 

[Thrombomodulin]

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[178624]

 

[ktal4haider2015]

That's a little bit harsh don't you think?

I do think that you need to take a bunch of science classes (start slowly, with 2 at a time for example) and do your best to get A's in those. You CAN start studying for the MCAT, but try to push it back to a later date. I think you should spend about 3-4 months, hardcore studying for the MCAT. You can check out all the best way to prep in the MCAT discussion thread. I doubt it's near zero below 3.4, although it would be rather low. Just for now, try to get it above a 3.0

Thanks for that..
I know that with this GPA I might as well just become, as someone said on another thread, a toll boot collector... but.. I also stated that I have AT LEAST 4 more quarters of undergrad to go.. emphasize on the AT LEAST.. because if I need to, I'll go one more year..
My only concern was IF I should apply this year.. which I know it won't be a good idea, unless I get a super high MCAT.
I have been already studying for the MCAT since the summer.. and now I am on my last month of preparation.. so I am quite confident about getting a good MCAT score.. but.. idk... I guess I just want to get into med school already..

THanks for your advise though.. and for being nice..

 

[ktal4haider2015]

Thanks to everyone who replied to this!

I guess I should have mentioned that I can't have Caribbean schools as options for me, because I recently got married, so as long as I can get into a CA school, I'll do whatever there needs to be done to stay here..
My husband is already in med school.. and I want to be within 2-3 years behind him.. and here in CA if possible..
Adding to this, I have a good chance of getting into a program that exists between UCR and UCLA.. given the fact that I've worked for, and known people who are key for the program, and they are the ones who are advising me..
I just wanted to know if it'd be a good idea to apply this year IF I get a high MCAT score..
and.. I have been getting ready for the MCAT since the summer..
and to kinda fix my poor basic sciences performance, I have been tutoring for those classes at a community college level.. which has helped me become stronger on those subjects.. and also understand why I did poorly on the classes.. so lets say that those grades don't exactly demonstrate my current knowledge..
Finally, my advisors told me that generally, people who get some sort of As in biochem, are people who do understand sciences.. and who would be able to handle a med schcool load.. so about that part, i am not concerned..
i'm just concerned about timing..

 

[Catalystik]

now, my questions is: IF I get a 30+ MCAT score, do you think it would be a good idea for me to apply this year?

IMO, with a GPA of 2.9, if you get a 40+ MCAT score to prove you understood the prerequisite material, it will be reasonable for you to apply this year. You still aren't guaranteed an admission, though, as your academic record doesn't show a sustained ability to get high grades. You have provided no evidence to admissions committees that you can perform well in medical school studies.

 

[RecyclingBinh]

No.

Further, if you retake a class with a bad grade, their application service will replace the bad grade with the new one, thus allowing your application GPA to rise faster. .

Really is this true? So if i retake Calculus 2 + 3 which i got a C in and get an A in it, AMCAS will take into consideration the higher grade and add it to our GPA???

Will the TMDSAS, Texas application, do this as well?

 

[MD021]

Really is this true? So if i retake Calculus 2 + 3 which i got a C in and get an A in it, AMCAS will take into consideration the higher grade and add it to our GPA???

Will the TMDSAS, Texas application, do this as well?

no, he was referring to D.O. schools only; MD schools would keep the old grade as well

 

[MDtobe888]

my friend went to indonesia for medical school, maybe you should too

 

[Mobius1985]

The mean GPA for osteopathic (DO) med schools is about 3.4. You wouldn't need to repair your GPA for as long if you decide to go that route. Further, if you retake a class with a bad grade, their application service will replace the bad grade with the new one, thus allowing your application GPA to rise faster.

Really is this true? So if i retake Calculus 2 + 3 which i got a C in and get an A in it, AMCAS will take into consideration the higher grade and add it to our GPA???

AMCAS will average a retaken grade with the original low grade. Only DO schools replace the grade, as MDO21 said.

 

[Chocolate Bear]

Really is this true? So if i retake Calculus 2 + 3 which i got a C in and get an A in it, AMCAS will take into consideration the higher grade and add it to our GPA???

Will the TMDSAS, Texas application, do this as well?

The correction to your misinterpretation has already been stated. I just wanted to say it again and add something since you asked about TMDSAS.

1. DO schools that use the AACOMAS (read: different from AMCAS) will replace grades for those you have retaken, as long as your retakes were greater than or equal to the number of credit hours of the first attempt at that course. All DO schools use AACOMAS except for TCOM/UNTHSC (see #2).

2. 1 DO school doesn't use AACOMAS. It's TCOM/UNTHSC in Ft. Worth. They use TMDSAS. Thus they don't replace grades.

3. No TX school replaces grades. All TX schools use TMDSAS or AMCAS (Baylor), and thus average any retakes with your original attempts.

 

[Handy388]

Thanks to everyone who replied to this!

I guess I should have mentioned that I can't have Caribbean schools as options for me, because I recently got married, so as long as I can get into a CA school, I'll do whatever there needs to be done to stay here..
My husband is already in med school.. and I want to be within 2-3 years behind him.. and here in CA if possible..
Adding to this, I have a good chance of getting into a program that exists between UCR and UCLA.. given the fact that I've worked for, and known people who are key for the program, and they are the ones who are advising me..
I just wanted to know if it'd be a good idea to apply this year IF I get a high MCAT score..
and.. I have been getting ready for the MCAT since the summer..
and to kinda fix my poor basic sciences performance, I have been tutoring for those classes at a community college level.. which has helped me become stronger on those subjects.. and also understand why I did poorly on the classes.. so lets say that those grades don't exactly demonstrate my current knowledge..
Finally, my advisors told me that generally, people who get some sort of As in biochem, are people who do understand sciences.. and who would be able to handle a med schcool load.. so about that part, i am not concerned..
i'm just concerned about timing..

a slightly sobering note, I have 3.5+, 35+, and acceptances, but UCR/UCLA doesn't even interview me.

 

[tennisball80]

So in undergrad, it's easy to do well in lab classes ?

 

[yellowtibby]

I would advise that you hold off on taking the MCAT until your grades are in check. Even if you take it and do well, the chances of you getting in with your current GPA is slim, furthermore by the time you have increased your GPA through more classes there is a risk that your MCAT score might expire. I say you wait and continue to study. That way you can do well on the MCAT and balance out the GPA to a greater extent.

 

[Thrombomodulin]

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[Thrombomodulin]

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[niranjan162]

So in undergrad, it's easy to do well in lab classes ?

This is not wut this thread is about. Go back to ur hole!

 

[Thrombomodulin]

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[Perrotfish]

OP, read through this thread. It's advice for people with low GPAs

I would say that an applicant's chances of being accepted with a GPA below a 3.0 are less than 5%. However, that is just a guess based on reading MDApplicants.com profies. If the OP had extensive graduate work or completed an SMP with excellent grades, that would be a different scenario.

However, I still stand by my original statement. Currently, the OP has no chance at medical school and should not take the MCAT/apply to medical school at this time.

The fastest route for the OP to medical school is an SMP, which requires an MCAT. So she should take the MCAT if she is scoring well on the practice tests. She should not apply for Medical school, but she might at least be able to begin an SMP the fall after she finished undergrad and could then apply to medical school the next year. There is no MCAT that's going to get you in with under a 3.0 and no SMP.

The other options are

1) Taking new classes until he gets to about a 3.4 without grade replacement and then apply to MD schools.

2) Retake classes until she gets to at least a 3.3 with grade replacement, then apply DO

3) Go Carribean right now and hope not to be one of the many students that either fails out or fails to land a residency.

4) Other career options.

Honestly I think you need to consider #4 very seriously if you're ruling out moving and have residency in California. CA schools are incredibily competitive This is a very doable path (and I've done it) if you're willing to risk a lot of money and move around the nation. It's also doable if you're willing to spend a lot of time (probably at least 3 years) at it. But there isn't an option for getting into medical school soon and staying rooted in CA that I can see. Maybe there's a DO school nearby I don't know about? Otherwise I think something in your plan has to give: either time, or location, or your career choice. Anyway, look over that thread I linked and consider your options.

 

[niranjan162]

Usually, I would ignore posts like this. However, since you are acting like an *******, I will respond.

The OP's grades are higher in the labs than in the lecture courses, as you can see from my post where I quoted the first post. This led a high school student to infer that lab courses are less challenging than the lecture courses.

I know this is difficult for you to understand, but high school students are not familiar with college life since they are in high school.

Next time, perhaps you could read the thread (and tennisball80's question) instead of assuming his question is not relevant to the thread.

This is a forum for premedical students. Learn to type without using "textspeak".

Interesting coming from the guy with the harsh put down of the OP.

Secondly high school students shouldnt know anything about college life, its completely different, and part of the fun is figuring it out. If tennisball wants to know about labs he can start his own thread or wait till college instead of getting some meaningless answer (difficulty in labs or any class for that matter is completely dependent on school, class matter, teacher etc.) So if you can provide a meaningful answer then y dont u do so.

Your right this is a premed forum, congrats. But THIS THREAD is about giving the OP advice into getting into med school. But if u wanna derail the thread so you can give an answer that will basically be useless go ahead.

Hope my lack of "textspeak" in this post allows you understand it.

 

[Thrombomodulin]

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[niranjan162]

You provide contradicting information. First, a 40+ MCAT score proves the OP has a solid grasp on the material. Then, you go on to tell the OP that he/she has provided no evidence of an ability to perform well in medical school.

MCAT score is important, however, it cannot make up for a 2.9 GPA. Once again, I highly suggest that the OP takes a couple of years to improve his/her GPA before applying to medical school.

What catalystik said is not contradicting. Having a grasp of the material doesnt mean you can work hard in classes. Which is what the current grades of the OP impress upon ADCOMs.

To the OP when u say u have 4 quarters, do u mean u have 4 terms in a year or another 4 semesters (i.e. 2 years)?

As another poster said it will take u at least 3 years to pull yourself up to a good level and thats with perfect grades. Have you started studying for the MCAT yet? Take some practice tests yo gauge where u are then ask yourself how far are you willing to go to become a physician. Theres always the DO route and the carribean

 

[niranjan162]

My response to tennisball80. You must have missed it.



Yes, I was too harsh to the OP. I have corrected my post(s) and apologized to the OP.

I can send you an apology via PM if you like.

I agree. High school students should not know anything about college life. I pointed that out in my one of my previous posts.

The answer is only useless to you because you know the answer. Tennisball80 does not, and the topic of lab sections in college was obviously on his mind. It was important enough for him to ask the question.

I am aware of what the topic of this thread is about, as I have responded with several posts.

Its quite alright i dont need an apology. Im sure ur sorry. I did miss your answer to tennisball. Im sure he completely understands exactly wut labs are like from that answer. bravo.

 

[Thrombomodulin]

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[Thrombomodulin]

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[Chocolate Bear]

OP, in light of your need to stay in Cali, check out Western College of Osteopathic Medicine in Pomona, CA. It's a solid school that produces tons of Cali residents each year. As stated before, when you retake courses, they'll only use your most recent grade for a given course to calculate your GPA.

 

[alibai3ah]

To the OP I would abstain from putting up your stats up on this site, b/c people are usually brutal here. I'll give you my honest opinion and help you with what your options are.

1) First of all, you need to take as many units as you can to get above a 3.0, b/c many schools can screen you out below that. That might take some time, but it'll be worth it. Hopefully you have a strong upward trend...as that can help as well. Do post bac and get 4.0.
2) Once your gpa is up, I would get an impressive MCAT score. I'm talking atleast 33+. The thing is if you get a decent enough MCAT score it shows adcomms you can handle the coursework and it can reduce the negative impact due to grades.
3) Since you say that you have strong EC's that will help alot. People on SDN often underestimate the importance of EC's. If you write compelling enough personal statement, strong EC and MCATs I think you have a shot
4) If all else fails and you have high MCATs...you could possibly enroll in a SMP.
Apply broadly (30+) schools....I wish you the best of luck.

 

[rkaz]

No.

Do the math. After three years (I'm assuming), you've earned a 2.9 GPA. It will take three more years of straight A classwork to get you to a near 3.5 GPA. That is still below the mean of 3.65 for acceptees to allopathic (MD) med schools, but might get you in if your MCAT is 32+.

The mean GPA for osteopathic (DO) med schools is about 3.4. You wouldn't need to repair your GPA for as long if you decide to go that route. Further, if you retake a class with a bad grade, their application service will replace the bad grade with the new one, thus allowing your application GPA to rise faster. Their mean MCAT would be 24. If you get a higher score, your GPA wouldn't need to be as high, but I still think you'll need 1.5 years of excellent grades to prove to adcomms you''d survive in a science-intense environment like med school.

The above is great advice for the OP. However, I would just like to point out that the DO school MCAT score of 24 was from back in 2004. It has been increasing steadily since then, with many programs now having averages around 26-27. If I remember correctly, Western's recent matriculant stats were a 3.5 GPA/28 MCAT (one of the highest I've seen for DO schools).

 

[alibai3ah]

Thanks to everyone who replied to this!

I guess I should have mentioned that I can't have Caribbean schools as options for me, because I recently got married, so as long as I can get into a CA school, I'll do whatever there needs to be done to stay here..
My husband is already in med school.. and I want to be within 2-3 years behind him.. and here in CA if possible..
Adding to this, I have a good chance of getting into a program that exists between UCR and UCLA.. given the fact that I've worked for, and known people who are key for the program, and they are the ones who are advising me..
I just wanted to know if it'd be a good idea to apply this year IF I get a high MCAT score..
and.. I have been getting ready for the MCAT since the summer..
and to kinda fix my poor basic sciences performance, I have been tutoring for those classes at a community college level.. which has helped me become stronger on those subjects.. and also understand why I did poorly on the classes.. so lets say that those grades don't exactly demonstrate my current knowledge..
Finally, my advisors told me that generally, people who get some sort of As in biochem, are people who do understand sciences.. and who would be able to handle a med schcool load.. so about that part, i am not concerned..
i'm just concerned about timing..

O I forgot to read this before I wrote my first reply. California is a pretty brutal state and I know that UCR/UCLA program you are talking about. I wouldn't apply this year just to save you the money and heartache. Sure it is a possibility that you could get in this year, but chances are very slim with a sub 3.0 gpa and you might as well wait a year when you are a better candidate. Plus reapplying sounds like alot of work and usually adcomms expect a drastic change over the year....I would recommend applying the following year....when you have ur gpa above 3.0 and have more experience. Also a few people recommended the DO route, which is also a great option as well.

 

[Mobius1985]

I would just like to point out that the DO school MCAT score of 24 was from back in 2004. It has been increasing steadily since then, with many programs now having averages around 26-27. If I remember correctly, Western's recent matriculant stats were a 3.5 GPA/28 MCAT (one of the highest I've seen for DO schools).

rkaz, thanks for providing recent data. The most recent info I found in pre-osteo is from 2006-2007 aggregate AACOMA data is that the the mean or average cGPA for all DO school acceptees is 3.45 and MCAT 25.5. If you know of more recent, reliable data, please let us know. However, for the OP who doesn't want to leave California, the most important information for her is Western's data, which you provided.

 

[Chocolate Bear]

s

rkaz, thanks for providing recent data. The most recent info I found in pre-osteo is from 2006-2007 aggregate AACOMA data is that the the mean or average cGPA for all DO school acceptees is 3.45 and MCAT 25.5. If you know of more recent, reliable data, please let us know. However, for the OP who doesn't want to leave California, the most important information for her is Western's data, which you provided.

It's very difficult to get accurate, up to date MCAT/GPA numbers for some DO schools. Many will provide the numbers, but not all, and they aren't always easy to find. Plus, and this is very important, there is a fairly wide gap both between DO schools and within DO schools.

But yeah, Western's averages are fairly high because tons of Cali residents want to stay in state and felt no love from the UC's. Sigh.

 

[Mobius1985]

s

It's very difficult to get accurate, up to date MCAT/GPA numbers for some DO schools.

So you're saying it would be impossible to create an equivalent to pre-allo's "What are my Chances?" School Selection spreadsheet (stickied at the top of that subforum)? I had hoped that eventually someone could add that extra data to the same grid, so everyone could use it.

 

[Chocolate Bear]

So you're saying it would be impossible to create an equivalent to pre-allo's "What are my Chances?" School Selection spreadsheet (stickied at the top of that subforum)? I had hoped that eventually someone could add that extra data to the same grid, so everyone could use it.

No, nothing's impossible. This data can be found for many DO schools, but it's not generally organized in one spot with all schools included, like is so easy to find in the MSAR, etc.

I might be able to contribute to such a compilation of data. I LOVE LOVE LOVE adding facts around here. Sometimes we have too much hearsay, not enough data, ya know?!

 

[Mobius1985]

I might be able to contribute to such a compilation of data. I LOVE LOVE LOVE adding facts around here. Sometimes we have too much hearsay, not enough data, ya know?!

I was sorta hoping you'd say this. As a mod, you'd have the power to post such information in an easily accessible spot. I asked the author of the previosly mentioned spreadsheet about this idea (adding the data to the existing format), but he may never have seen the question (Hal9000).

 

[rkaz]

Some of the individual DO school's data is listed in the 2009 College Information Book: http://www.aacom.org/resources/bookstore/cib/Pages/default.aspx

That's where I pulled out Western's data. But it doesn't seem all schools provide this sort of information. The CIB also has the 2004-2006 aggregate scores for all schools combined, but I would take that with a grain of salt, as individual schools' scores seem to really be going up in the last few years. I've heard of people getting accepted with MCAT scores as low as 22 in recent years, but that is pretty rare (I would think they'd have to have substantial GPAs to make up for it).

 

[ktal4haider2015]

I guess I didn't clarify ENOUGH that I DO PLAN ON SPENDING MORE TIME TO BRING MY GPA UP.. I in NO WAY expect to get in with the GPA I have right now...

 

[ktal4haider2015]

What catalystik said is not contradicting. Having a grasp of the material doesnt mean you can work hard in classes. Which is what the current grades of the OP impress upon ADCOMs.

To the OP when u say u have 4 quarters, do u mean u have 4 terms in a year or another 4 semesters (i.e. 2 years)?

As another poster said it will take u at least 3 years to pull yourself up to a good level and thats with perfect grades. Have you started studying for the MCAT yet? Take some practice tests yo gauge where u are then ask yourself how far are you willing to go to become a physician. Theres always the DO route and the carribean

hmmmf.. I said somewhere here that yes, I have been studying for the MCAT since the summer.. I'm not one of those people who just signed up to take the MCAT w/o getting ready for it..
and also, I have at least two more years to go.. and I can do a third, so that also isn't my main concern. My main concern was about WHEN I should apply.. that's all...

 

[ktal4haider2015]

O I forgot to read this before I wrote my first reply. California is a pretty brutal state and I know that UCR/UCLA program you are talking about. I wouldn't apply this year just to save you the money and heartache. Sure it is a possibility that you could get in this year, but chances are very slim with a sub 3.0 gpa and you might as well wait a year when you are a better candidate. Plus reapplying sounds like alot of work and usually adcomms expect a drastic change over the year....I would recommend applying the following year....when you have ur gpa above 3.0 and have more experience. Also a few people recommended the DO route, which is also a great option as well.

thanks..