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EMTech

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You absolutely can get into radiation oncology from any medical school and with your early interest and your background, I have no doubt you'll be motivated enough to get into research early on and have a strong application. You have zero to worry about.

Also of note - your 'big name' choice of Dartmouth doesn't have a residency program and probably isn't going to give you any advantage. Mt. Sinai is probably the best choice in terms of pure rad onc connections. I also know for a fact that there are multiple people applying to Rad Onc from SUNYs this cycle, and they're going to match no problem.

As long as you want to match rad onc, you will have no problem based on what you're telling us.
 
I know for a fact that SUNY Upsate loves their own students when it comes to matching into Radonc. I would strongly consider Upstate...half the debt and good chance of matching. Also, you are way ahead of the game and can start decent research projects early. That and your unique background, including military, would set you apart when it came to sending out interview invites.
 
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EMTech said:
but if I go to SUNY Upstate, it is possible I will only be in debt about $50–$100,000, although with a much smaller chance of getting into radiation oncology (I know this because I've studied the match lists of each of the schools, and the "brand name" programs seem to get more people into radiation oncology every year).
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I am not a radiation oncologist, but I always always always tell medical students not to decide which school to go to based on the match lists. You have no idea how many people in that graduating class decided to apply to radiation oncology, you have no idea what percentage of students in that year got their top choice, etc. Maybe SUNY Upstate only got 3 students into radiation oncology, but maybe those were the only 3 students who applied to the specialty; maybe Dartmouth got 7 people into the specialty, but 15 people applied. So don't make your decision based solely on a match list.
 
As a radiation oncologist having previously participated in recruitment of residents I highly urge you to not go into debt going into Dartmouth. I say this primarily because SUNY upstate would not put you at a disadvantage into getting into radonc. Furthermore going into that much debt for something that probably won't help you is truly unwise.
 
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You're not old man! any specialty you choose you are going to have to do at least 3 years mostly and if you do a fellowship you end up training about the same if not more!. What's two extra years to have a great career (excellent work satisfaction, compensation and work life balance for your family), and one you can practice well into your 70s? (read about all the baby boomers who won't retire who people begrudge). Anyways ,man you will be fine. It sounds like you have a strong work ethic. Choose the cheaper option. I doubt Dartmouth will open that much extra doors for you, that another medical school wouldn't open. It doesn't even have a residency program. Just do well on your STEP 1, do a few away rotations in places that give you a decent chance to match, apply broadly and you should be fine.
 
Upstate has a pretty established smaller university program, Dartmouth does not. That's a big plus to upstate right there, on top of the tuition difference
 
We have some similar history. I was 37 when I completed residency. I was also a paramedic in my first life.

I echo what others have said above about the debt of an Ivy League..tread carefully. Just knowing radonc is a field before entering med school puts you in a good position to match. You will have plenty of time to make connections and do research.

I'm bullish on the job market - I personally think you'll be fine and there is a lot of fearmongering on this board. True that in big coastal cities jobs are harder to come by, but there are PLENTY of good jobs out there and even in very desireable areas IMO.

Steer clear of as much debt as you can - you sound like you already heed that advice with 100k saved up, good for you.

Good luck.
 
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I would agree with everyone. You are not at any disadvantage if you decide to go to SUNY Upstate for med school. Their students have had good success matching based on what I've seen. They have a fairly well-known chair and you'll be in solid position to match without the private school debt.
 
One more vote for AVOID DEBT. The perceived benefit from the ivy name just isn't there for Rad Onc at that particular institution. Take out as few loans as possible and that will do more to help with your future job hunt than anything. (IE, you'd be able to take a job where you truly want for less salary if you have less debt.)
 
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I definitely vote for avoiding debt. I made that choice pretty early in high school, and stuck with public schools that offered full scholarships. You should continue to have a very strong work ethic, be likeable and a great team player, do well in med school, and you'll match incredibly well irrespective of the brand name of your school. As I'm finishing residency now from a top notch program (and heading into an incredible job), being without debt (and actually with a sizeable nest egg) is a nice place to start... Good luck!
 
strongly encourage you to avoid debt. If you go 250 in debt, you will have to work the rest of your life without any reprieve. You would be taking on a big risk. Medical education is simply not worth 250k anymore (was it ever?). Now for the more important issue "I feel the work was isolating" Medicine as an attending is very isolating. Radiation oncology I think is one of the most isolating fields (with the exception of a pathologist that just does autopsies). You sit in a basement all day, maybe you have 1 or 2 partners. You go to tumor boards with other specialists that have no clue what they are talking about half the time (surgeons are not oncologists). The cases are complex and interesting which is a saving grace, but it is professionally a lonely existence as well (unless you enjoy blabbing about half millimeter PTV margins in the academic setting).
 
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Holylolololol at 'radiation oncology is one of the most isolating fields'


Stop trolling
 
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medicinewoman101 said:
strongly encourage you to avoid debt. If you go 250 in debt, you will have to work the rest of your life without any reprieve. You would be taking on a big risk. Medical education is simply not worth 250k anymore (was it ever?). Now for the more important issue "I feel the work was isolating" Medicine as an attending is very isolating. Radiation oncology I think is one of the most isolating fields (with the exception of a pathologist that just does autopsies). You sit in a basement all day, maybe you have 1 or 2 partners. You go to tumor boards with other specialists that have no clue what they are talking about half the time (surgeons are not oncologists). The cases are complex and interesting which is a saving grace, but it is professionally a lonely existence as well (unless you enjoy blabbing about half millimeter PTV margins in the academic setting).
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From your previous post I'm assuming that this is your experience with your job. Most people in radonc don't find the field isolating. Please don't generalize when your speaking for yourself. I find myself surrounded by wonderful medical oncologists, surgical oncologists who are my peers, dosimetrists, radiation therapists, and nurses who are my allied health professionals. You'll by far interact with more people in this field than most others. Unfortunately you took up a job in a very small center in the boonies and therefore have no interaction with others or other oncologists. Most people try to avoid that.
 
medicinewoman101 said:
strongly encourage you to avoid debt. If you go 250 in debt, you will have to work the rest of your life without any reprieve. You would be taking on a big risk. Medical education is simply not worth 250k anymore (was it ever?). Now for the more important issue "I feel the work was isolating" Medicine as an attending is very isolating. Radiation oncology I think is one of the most isolating fields (with the exception of a pathologist that just does autopsies). You sit in a basement all day, maybe you have 1 or 2 partners. You go to tumor boards with other specialists that have no clue what they are talking about half the time (surgeons are not oncologists). The cases are complex and interesting which is a saving grace, but it is professionally a lonely existence as well (unless you enjoy blabbing about half millimeter PTV margins in the academic setting).
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Guuuuurl! Why you soooooo emo?
 
mpdoc2 said:
From your previous post I'm assuming that this is your experience with your job. Most people in radonc don't find the field isolating. Please don't generalize when your speaking for yourself. I find myself surrounded by wonderful medical oncologists, surgical oncologists who are my peers, dosimetrists, radiation therapists, and nurses who are my allied health professionals. You'll by far interact with more people in this field than most others. Unfortunately you took up a job in a very small center in the boonies and therefore have no interaction with others or other oncologists. Most people try to avoid that.
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The 'isolated' description was disconcerting to read. Reminded me of a radiologist I know who sits in a room all day by himself. So does it mainly depend on job location? What percentage of jobs are isolating vs. at a larger center such as the one that you describe? How much time do you spend with patients each day vs. by yourself working on treatment plans? You said you are surrounded by other oncologists but how much do you need to interact with them for patient care? I guess I hadn't thought about this side of things before but similar to OP, i am also coming from an engineering background and do not want to end up where i started in terms of isolation.
 
The easiest way to not be a room by one's self, is to step out of the room.

I bet you'll find other people to interact with.
 
One of the strengths of radiation oncology as a field IMO is the amount of interaction with other team members I have on a daily basis.

I don't even understand how one becomes lonely in this field.
 
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I've read through the replies and from my vantage point as a fourth year student applying to Radiation Oncology Residency programs this year, I feel like the advice that has been given so far is sound. I am also a little older, but remember, a good portion of this field are MD-PhD's who by the nature of their training are also older. Just to reiterate or expand upon a few things - 1) Your success in medicine will largely be contingent upon you. People told me this before medical school as I decided where to go, but as I near graduation, I can attest that this is true. Your Step 1 score is crucial to your application and your personal effort will mean much more to the outcome than where you go to school. 2) Away rotation(s) are practically essential in Radiation Oncology. These provide an opportunity to get a letter of recommendation from just about anywhere that you are accepted to do an away - so you really aren't limited in gaining exposure/networking in the field with careful planning. Two of the schools you mentioned have solid home programs and even if you went to a school with a top tier program, you still would benefit from away rotation(s). 3) The fact that you already know this is what you want to do and have pertinent experience is a huge advantage. Research, particularly with tangible results (i.e publications), is very important to your residency application, and takes time. Odds are, you will also have an easier time getting involved in meaningful research at a place with a home residency program compared to even a perceived, higher prestige school that does not have a program. Best of luck with everything.
 
Honestly, the only field we possibly don't interact with is cardiology because coronary brachy was replaced by drug-eluting stents.

For some of the rare interactions.....

ID - Kaposi's sarcoma
Ortho - post-op XRT for hip met
Rheumatology - discussion regarding XRT for bad AI diseases like scleroderma
Endocrine - thyroid CA/hypothroidism - I-131

and the list goes on....
 
I don't dismiss the comments about isolation..but they do surprise me.

I practice in a solo radonc setting and even in that setting if anything I suffer from too much team interaction rather than isolation. It is a rare day that I can hide in my office for longer than 20 minutes to dictate without being interrupted by my nurse, physicist, dosimetrist, therapist, medical oncologist, surgeon or whomever about something..I find this field CONSTANTLY interactive, so much so that for me, it's almost too much. Haha, I guess it just depends on point of view. Maybe the poster meant isolated on a peer-to-peer level with other radoncs..but again, that really does boil down to a choice. My first job was in a large academic environment and while it was nice to have buddies/colleagues in my radonc department, I definitely enjoy running my own show and the lack of politics and stuff of academia.
 
I saw coronary brachy twice in a month during one of my rotations. The funniest thing was seeing the cardiologists hide as far as they could behind a wall many feet away, while they have no problem running fluoro all day, often without a thyroid shield.
I saw an interesting paper on cardiac radiosurgery: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24751407
 
napoleondynamite said:
I don't dismiss the comments about isolation..but they do surprise me.

I practice in a solo radonc setting and even in that setting if anything I suffer from too much team interaction rather than isolation. It is a rare day that I can hide in my office for longer than 20 minutes to dictate without being interrupted by my nurse, physicist, dosimetrist, therapist, medical oncologist, surgeon or whomever about something..I find this field CONSTANTLY interactive, so much so that for me, it's almost too much. Haha, I guess it just depends on point of view. Maybe the poster meant isolated on a peer-to-peer level with other radoncs..but again, that really does boil down to a choice. My first job was in a large academic environment and while it was nice to have buddies/colleagues in my radonc department, I definitely enjoy running my own show and the lack of politics and stuff of academia.
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I'm a solo rad onc but my area has multiple tumor boards so I get to "interact" with other specialties almost too often. I do wish I had another rad onc to bounce ideas off of, but overall I'm really enjoying my situation. Finding coverage can sometimes be a challenge, but I rather deal with that then all the other stuff I've seen from other places... so I definitely agree with you!
 
mpdoc2 said:
From your previous post I'm assuming that this is your experience with your job. Most people in radonc don't find the field isolating. Please don't generalize when your speaking for yourself. I find myself surrounded by wonderful medical oncologists, surgical oncologists who are my peers, dosimetrists, radiation therapists, and nurses who are my allied health professionals. You'll by far interact with more people in this field than most others. Unfortunately you took up a job in a very small center in the boonies and therefore have no interaction with others or other oncologists. Most people try to avoid that.
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bitter much huh. Im in a large top 3 by population city (middle of the city, not suburb) at a large practice. You'll see for yourself OP, medicine is a lonely path to put in as much time and effort as one has to. I mean, if you love being buddy buddy with your patients and nurses/techs then great. You'll be interacting with a lot of old referrings who are working way past their expiration date. If that sounds like its worth the 10 years of work after 30 year old (step 1, 2, 3, med school tests/shelfs/grading, residency applications/interviews, residency tests and in service and mock orals, physics/bio boards, written boards, oral boards, job search, geographic uncertainty) then ok, this is the way to go. There is a lot of variety and the cases are always interesting, no two patients are the same.
 
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medicinewoman101 said:
bitter much huh. Im in a large top 3 by population city (middle of the city, not suburb) at a large practice. You'll see for yourself OP, medicine is a lonely path to put in as much time and effort as one has to. I mean, if you love being buddy buddy with your patients and nurses/techs then great. You'll be interacting with a lot of old referrings who are working way past their expiration date. If that sounds like its worth the 10 years of work after 30 year old (step 1, 2, 3, med school tests/shelfs/grading, residency applications/interviews, residency tests and in service and mock orals, physics/bio boards, written boards, oral boards, job search, geographic uncertainty) then ok, this is the way to go. There is a lot of variety and the cases are always interesting, no two patients are the same.
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Many specialists I work with are on the younger side in my area. To each his/her own.
 
medicinewoman101 said:
bitter much huh. Im in a large top 3 by population city (middle of the city, not suburb) at a large practice. You'll see for yourself OP, medicine is a lonely path to put in as much time and effort as one has to. I mean, if you love being buddy buddy with your patients and nurses/techs then great. You'll be interacting with a lot of old referrings who are working way past their expiration date. If that sounds like its worth the 10 years of work after 30 year old (step 1, 2, 3, med school tests/shelfs/grading, residency applications/interviews, residency tests and in service and mock orals, physics/bio boards, written boards, oral boards, job search, geographic uncertainty) then ok, this is the way to go. There is a lot of variety and the cases are always interesting, no two patients are the same.
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You're asking me if I'm bitter? or are you bitter complaining how lonely you feel? If you think you're too good to talk to people around you then of course you're going to feel isolated. Almost everyone I've met who thought that they were better than those around them felt pretty lonely like you do. Funny thing is they usually weren't the sharpest one around either.
 
mpdoc2 said:
You're asking me if I'm bitter? or are you bitter complaining how lonely you feel? If you think you're too good to talk to people around you then of course you're going to feel isolated. Almost everyone I've met who thought that they were better than those around them felt pretty lonely like you do. Funny thing is they usually weren't the sharpest one around either.
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b9643a3d2358a025fbcfb2f69d90e05c.jpg
 
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I think you're (medicinewoman) describing the angst with becoming a physician, rather than the angst of becoming a radiation oncologist. Which is fair.

Many younger/new physicians feel similarly and there are high burnout rates approaching 50%. Whether you're a Rad Onc, or a Family Practice, or Whatever doc, you're going to have to "give up" nearly a decade of your young life and earning potential while your friends are out traveling/starting families, cast yourself in mountains of debt, be stressed to the max, and then realize the ultimate payout is ever shrinking reimbursement/respect levels and ever growing paperwork/bureaucracy levels. Churn patients through; just make sure you're providing quality care wholly evidenced by printing an After Visit Summary (sarcasm). But that's every field of medicine nowadays. Rad Onc is not unique in that way.
 
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Mandelin Rain said:
I think you're (medicinewoman) describing the angst with becoming a physician, rather than the angst of becoming a radiation oncologist. Which is fair.

Many younger/new physicians feel similarly and there are high burnout rates approaching 50%. Whether you're a Rad Onc, or a Family Practice, or Whatever doc, you're going to have to "give up" nearly a decade of your young life and earning potential while your friends are out traveling/starting families, cast yourself in mountains of debt, be stressed to the max, and then realize the ultimate payout is ever shrinking reimbursement/respect levels and ever growing paperwork/bureaucracy levels. Churn patients through; just make sure you're providing quality care wholly evidenced by printing an After Visit Summary (sarcasm). But that's every field of medicine nowadays. Rad Onc is not unique in that way.
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I agree but what other field of medicine can you work 8-5 and still make as much in 1 year as the average person in 10. It's important to not lose sight here. I feel like everyone (including myself) feels entitled these days.
 
Sure. There's no better job in medicine. :) But...entitled or not, I do think those complaints are common across all specialties of new docs.

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/ama-wire/post/specialties-highest-burnout-rates

Maybe the better moral is to examine if you really want to be a doctor, rather than if you really want to be a radiation oncologist. Once you're in medical school, it's tough to go back.
 
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EMTech said:
Hi all,

Sorry for not getting back sooner. I want to thank you all for your advice, and support. I think I am personally leaning towards Dartmouth Medical – I was told that Geisel Medical Hospital will be starting a residency program in radiation oncology within the next couple of years, and a part of me feels compelled to go to it since it's "ivy" – I know, I know, SUNY Upstate is cheaper, but personal factors are in place too (location of Dartmouth is closer to family), and it would be cool to go to an ivy league school. I'm still not 100% decided, but that's what I'm thinking for now.

Regarding some of the issues about younger doctors and high burnout rates – I think a lot of students who enter after college are not really ready or realize the sacrifice medicine is. I mean they may say it in the admission essays, but you don't really feel it until you've gone through the monotony and grind of the real world, because college is nothing like the real world – and way easier imho.

I think the grass is always going to be greener on the other side, but from my experience in both the military, and private sector – job security is a nice thing & experience being valued as you get older is nicer. It's something I'm always worried about in programming. Yes, I get paid a respectable middle to upper middle class wage (although a lot of it is nullified by Bay Area high cost of living & CA taxes), and I see myself taking a hit of about $1 million (4 years of medical school is about $200,000 + 4 years of lost income + 4 years of reduced income), but a lot of the work isn't personally fulfilling, making someone else rich, and sometimes little personal gratification, although I do enjoy the technical aspects of it. Furthermore, technologies are rapidly changing, and things quickly become obsolete, or you hear some division has been outsourced to India or China.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that all jobs and careers suck at some point, or in general, but they have their upsides as well. In programming, I can work remotely, and have been fortunate enough to have been able to live in Europe, and Asia an still make a nice income. But I think also for raising a family, being able to make an income over >$200K a year, and in areas that aren't in high cost of living (whereas the Bay, NYC, & other tech valleys tend to be more expensive) is a huge plus.

I think having a family is possible while in medical school – I would probably wait until I was 34 or so to have a kid – around the time residency started, and I think kids can be pretty cheap early on if you things frugally. What I care more about is being able to provide for a family down the road, and to afford things I couldn't afford/go to when I was younger – for instance, for me, the fear of college debt deterred me from going to school right away which is one of the reasons why I joined the military post high school, and I would like to be able to send any future kids to any school they can get into.





Yeah the money, job security, status, and ability to work well into the 70s are major plusses in my opinion. In IT it’s rare to see someone programming past their 60s – either they are forced to retire, burn out/become obsolete, or retire early. In my case, I am not fond of being sedentary – and think I would decay/deteriorate pretty quickly if I were to retire altogether.
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If you do decide to do radiation you'll realize 4 years from now no one cared that you went to Dartmouth (which in radonc is not considered prestigious or well known) but you will care that you're 300k in debt (don't forget the compound interest). If it was Harvard I'd say go for it, but in my opinion it's nuts to goto Dartmouth for that much money. Anywhose it's your life.
 
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mpdoc2 said:
If you do decide to do radiation you'll realize 4 years from now no one cared that you went to Dartmouth (which in radonc is not considered prestigious or well known) but you will care that you're 300k in debt (don't forget the compound interest). If it was Harvard I'd say go for it, but in my opinion it's nuts to goto Dartmouth for that much money. Anywhose it's your life.
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I remember things like this seeming so important, and the funny thing is of all the connections/job conversations I've had no one cares where I went to medical school.

Please OP, avoid debt at all costs, "ivy league" is not worth it.
 
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Dartmouth is a complete no name in the world of rad Onc.


And lol if you think they're going to have a residency any time soon.

Good luck brother. See you in another life.
 
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xrthopeful said:
Dartmouth is a complete no name in the world of rad Onc.


And lol if you think they're going to have a residency any time soon.

Good luck brother. See you in another life.
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Having been trained in the East coast (top 10) I didn't meet a single medstudent from Dartmouth making the the interview rounds. Shows how weak they are in the field. I honestly believe that Upstate has a better name than Dartmouth in the radonc world. It may be different in the Undergrad world. If you care what people think of you who don't matter (ie neighbors) you'll regret it later in life.
 
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Absolutely, 100% would choose Dartmouth. No question. I'm getting the feeling those above posters are either joking/trolling.
 
Damn_Daniel said:
Absolutely, 100% would choose Dartmouth. No question. I'm getting the feeling those above posters are either joking/trolling.
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Considering you have only two posts and both of them pretty trollish, a wise person would know whose the troll.
 
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"who's" = "who is"
"whose" = possessive form of who

Our field is in trouble.
 
The OP did indicate in their second post that there were personal reasons for them to go to Dartmouth (possibly nearby family?), and also that he felt that it would be "cool" to go to an Ivy League school. Some people may have come from a background where no one has gone to a "name" college, and in those cases there is a huge pride factor to go to a place like Dartmouth. I had to choose between St. George's and Ross, and there was no way I could look my family in the eye if I turned down the "Harvard of the Caribbean" to attend Ross to save a few bucks. For everyone to just say "ur so dumb to spend all that $$; ur gnna be a radonc no matter what, and dartmuth is just that dum dum animal house movie place, anyway" (I swear the grammar and syntax on this forum is just remarkable) ... In my eyes, that is just not right. I get the feeling there is some communal animosity towards Belushi and I have a feeling that's why the vitriol.
 
Damn_Daniel said:
The OP did indicate in their second post that there were personal reasons for them to go to Dartmouth (possibly nearby family?), and also that he felt that it would be "cool" to go to an Ivy League school. Some people may have come from a background where no one has gone to a "name" college, and in those cases there is a huge pride factor to go to a place like Dartmouth. I had to choose between St. George's and Ross, and there was no way I could look my family in the eye if I turned down the "Harvard of the Caribbean" to attend Ross to save a few bucks.
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:laugh::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Game over, troll. I was suspicious at 2 posts in, but you've but cemented it at 4 posts in. Poor showing on your troll attempt. You blew your load too early.

For everyone to just say "ur so dumb to spend all that $$; ur gnna be a radonc no matter what, and dartmuth is just that dum dum animal house movie place, anyway" (I swear the grammar and syntax on this forum is just remarkable) ... In my eyes, that is just not right. I get the feeling there is some communal animosity towards Belushi and I have a feeling that's why the vitriol.
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I think you might be having a stroke.

As to OP - When I interviewed, I saw significantly more candidates from SUNY Upstate (like 3 IIRC) than I did from Darthmouth (which was 0 as others mentioned). Not to stay nobody from Dartmouth applied, but I didn't see them at any of my interviews.
 
Two separate personal attacks to a new member of the community. I have not personally attacked anybody. Just voiced a dissent, and one that takes into account the OP's preferences, which people don't seem to be doing. Do you make your patients' choices for them - "Oh, no Mrs 100 year old stage I receptor positive breast cancer patient, you definitely need 5 weeks and a boost, omitting radiotherapy wouldn't be good for my bottom line, I mean, for your health." There is a lot of evidence on patient preferences in oncology (I believe ASTRO once gave a grant to a resident for researching this), and there is probably a similar role in advising people making a major life decision for 4 years, to keep their preferences in mind.

Seriously ... the seething I'm seeing. You tell me to my face that this isn't about Belushi!
 
Damn_Daniel said:
Two separate personal attacks to a new member of the community. I have not personally attacked anybody. Just voiced a dissent, and one that takes into account the OP's preferences, which people don't seem to be doing. Do you make your patients' choices for them - "Oh, no Mrs 100 year old stage I receptor positive breast cancer patient, you definitely need 5 weeks and a boost, omitting radiotherapy wouldn't be good for my bottom line, I mean, for your health." There is a lot of evidence on patient preferences in oncology (I believe ASTRO once gave a grant to a resident for researching this), and there is probably a similar role in advising people making a major life decision for 4 years, to keep their preferences in mind.

Seriously ... the seething I'm seeing. You tell me to my face that this isn't about Belushi!
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You're obviously a mutli-account user and this is your "troll" account. When a patient tells me they want some acupuncturist to cure their early stage cancer, I also tell them not to and I purposefully dis the acupuncturist who gave them that advice. As for my grammar error I guess I care more about the content of what I'm writing than the grammar. Only an a$$hole would tell a misguided person to do the wrong thing. Kind of like that acupuncturist, and at least they're doing it for the money while you're doing it for the $hits and giggles. I'll bet you, you're not an attending in our field and nothing but a troll lurking around and throwing $hit around different threads.
 
Seeing someone boast about SGU being the "Harvard of the Caribbean" over Ross made me LOL.

They are both Caribbean schools for people who couldn't get in stateside and are embarrassed to have a DO after their name for life.

Kinda funny to see said poster vouch for Dartmouth over upstate. Upstate is no slouch. It actually has a program with a well known chair in lung with med students who match every year
 
It is unfortunate that this discussion devolved into grammatically incorrect name calling and vulgar attacks on one person. In a span of just a few posts, a member has insulted me, Belushi, Belushi's fans, and acupuncturists. I think the rest of the forum would agree that the moderator really has no choice but to slap said member very hard on the wrist. But, not hard enough to leave a mark. That's just mean.

SUNY-Upstate is non-controversially the best medical school in Central New York, and I sincerely apologize for implying anything other than that. When a person states a personal desire for whatever personal reason to be somewhere, it's hard to say what they should do, without knowing their personal situation. $200,000 could cost someone $900 a month for 30 years. Perhaps preserving a new relationship, perhaps being near a child that was born out of wedlock, perhaps making them feel like a million bucks to say they went to Dartmouth - perhaps any of these scenarios make it worth the cost ... who am I to say don't follow your dream?

Incidentally, the average MCAT score is 2.3 points higher at Dartmouth, and that correlates with board scores. Who is to say that they don't choose other specialties because of their vast trust funds? From personal experience, at Harvard (well, of the islands) since many students were wealthy, they went into selfless fields, like pediatrics and family practice and psychiatry. I say- WWJBD?
 
I really should stop feeding the trolls.
 
Personal attacks are not allowed on SDN
FYI: in response to a direct message, I'm not "also mpdoc2 and messing with everybody". Idiot.
 
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