1/2 hispanic, don't speak spanish

[jonahlw]

update: This is old but I ended up choosing white race. For ethnicity, since the only choices were white, non-hispanic and hispanic, I chose hispanic, and selected "other" since I am half. That is the most accurate way I could possibly describe myself...if I chose non-hispanic, I am basically disowning my mother's ethnicity.

Didn't really seem to make a difference, as I compared my stats to straight up whites with similar stats and am basically in the same boat as them (waitlisted). I think they kind of make a judgement call when you interview-although my ancestors were mexican, they migrated from spain and had more european ancestry, hence lighter skin. Makes sense.

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[PerolaNegra]

Only if you want to fake your way to the top.


Look, do you really want to go to a school who is like: Oooo he is white! We want him! Or a school who accepts you for what you are- 1/2 hispanic, non-spanish speaking and all. Do you they think they judge African-Americans because they don't know one of the African language? Or a Native American who does not know the native language but only English? Or some Korean-American who does not know Korean? Do you think they expect you to know the language? And it is as if you are saying everyone else accept white people should know some other language just because their parents immigrated to America. If they were to expect you to know Spanish then they should expect a Polish-American to know Polish.

And you being upper-middle class and looking "white" doesn't make you any less Hispanic. Do you know what it is to be Hispanic? Do you know there are different races within the Hispanic classification? Don't you think by now they would know the different 'kinds' of Hispanics? And if not you could teach them something new about it?

 

[jonahlw]

.

 

[ChemEngMD]

I am 1/2 hispanic (mother is full), but more "spanish" than mexican (lighter skin ). Father is white. Mother doesn't speak spanish, which according to her, was because there was lots of racism in los angeles where she grew up and they just mainly tried to assimilate as whites.

Since I'm only 1/2, don't speak spanish, come from an upper-mid class family, and look white, would it look detrimental to put hispanic?

I value my cultural heritage, but don't really want to draw any red flags. Better to put white and not mention anything about this?

I'm half Hispanic (father is puerto rican & part dominican). I speak Spanish and what not, but my youngest brother is more in your position. Me and 2 of my siblings are of "typical" Hispanic skin tone but my youngest brother looks "white" and doesn't speak Spanish whatsoever. We are in the exact same family and of the exact same cultural upbringing and ethnicity. He is no less Hispanic than I am. The only thing you may have to worry about is if you get sent to interviews and what not they may have special luncheons with the other URM potential students and current URM students or something along those lines, at which you may receive a few glances, but I wouldn't expect anybody to wild out on you. If you've always put Hispanic/Latino on things and you HONESTLY associate yourself with being Latino, then go for it. I personally hate when people just put it down when it's convenient, but don't live with it 100% of the time. Good luck.

 

[Anotherface]

I'm half Hispanic (father is puerto rican & part dominican). I speak Spanish and what not, but my youngest brother is more in your position. Me and 2 of my siblings are of "typical" Hispanic skin tone but my youngest brother looks "white" and doesn't speak Spanish whatsoever. We are in the exact same family and of the exact same cultural upbringing and ethnicity. He is no less Hispanic than I am. The only thing you may have to worry about is if you get sent to interviews and what not they may have special luncheons with the other URM potential students and current URM students or something along those lines, at which you may receive a few glances, but I wouldn't expect anybody to wild out on you. If you've always put Hispanic/Latino on things and you HONESTLY associate yourself with being Latino, then go for it. I personally hate when people just put it down when it's convenient, but don't live with it 100% of the time. Good luck.

I wouldn't worry about stare downs. At the URM event, I saw a few students who looked caucasian--typically the Mexican Americans, Cubans, Puerto Ricans--and I don't think they were treated any differently than the rest of the group.

As for your classification OP, you should obviously be honest with yourself. If you do not identify with Mexican-Americans then you may not want indicate that you do on AMCAS.

 

[ChemEngMD]

I wouldn't worry about stare downs. At the URM event, I saw a few students who looked caucasian--typically the Mexican Americans, Cubans, Puerto Ricans--and I don't think they were treated any differently than the rest of the group.

As for your classification OP, you should obviously be honest with yourself. If you do not identify with Mexican-Americans then you may not want indicate that you do on AMCAS.

Yeah, but a lot of times it seems that the whiter looking of a Hispanic you are the more you have to prove yourself via representing. i.e. speaking Spanish, being into your heritage, blah blah blah...this is obviously more about community acceptance though

 

[cpants]

Yeah, but a lot of times it seems that the whiter looking of a Hispanic you are the more you have to prove yourself via representing. i.e. speaking Spanish, being into your heritage, blah blah blah...this is obviously more about community acceptance though

Definitely not from any kind of admissions standards. They aren't going to be analyzing your stated ethnicity and comparing it to your skin tone and language abilities. It's a self-identification, not something which needs to be proven or questioned. It's pretty stupid that someone with lighter skin would be expected to "represent" more. Not knowing the language does not change your background. You are what you are, and there is nothing wrong with putting it on your application, even if you don't have strong ties to the community.

 

[Anotherface]

Definitely not from any kind of admissions standards. They aren't going to be analyzing your stated ethnicity and comparing it to your skin tone and language abilities. It's a self-identification, not something which needs to be proven or questioned. It's pretty stupid that someone with lighter skin would be expected to "represent" more. Not knowing the language does not change your background. You are what you are, and there is nothing wrong with putting it on your application, even if you don't have strong ties to the community.

That's what I was trying to get at. However, it would be nice if those who claimed to be a certain ethnicity had the language (or other cultural aspects of that ethnic group) to help them relate to people from that group. Really that's what it is all about. Increasing the amount of URM doctors is supposed to help the minority communities feel empowered and comfortable with doctors, as opposed to feeling their doctors are from a completely different world (unrelatable).

 

[ChemEngMD]

That's what I was trying to get at. However, it would be nice if those who claimed to be a certain ethnicity had the language (or other cultural aspects of that ethnic group) to help them relate to people from that group. Really that's what it is all about. Increasing the amount of URM doctors is supposed to help the minority communities feel empowered and comfortable with doctors, as opposed to feeling their doctors are from a completely different world (unrelatable).

EXACTLY! No offense, but the Hispanic community isn't going to feel any more comfortable with somebody who doesn't truly identify with the ethnicity and is just like "oh, i put it on applications". You got to take the good with the bad, every time I've been called a racial epithet has been countered with something helpful for job applications and college acceptances...there are two sides to every coin.

P.S. before you said Cubans were URM...they are not. Only Boricuas and Mexicanos are URM for Latinos

 

[cpants]

That's what I was trying to get at. However, it would be nice if those who claimed to be a certain ethnicity had the language (or other cultural aspects of that ethnic group) to help them relate to people from that group. Really that's what it is all about. Increasing the amount of URM doctors is supposed to help the minority communities feel empowered and comfortable with doctors, as opposed to feeling their doctors are from a completely different world (unrelatable).

And this is why I disagree with considering race in admissions decisions. I'm pretty sure almost every Spanish-speaking only family would be more comfortable with me, a lily-white student doctor who is fluent in Spanish, than an English speaking Latino. The idea that we should be breaking down which Latin American nationality is URM and which is not is just stupid.

If the goal is to get doctors who minorities can be comfortable with, then color of skin is not the best factor to consider. In reality though, that's not the goal. The goal is to get the racial makeup of the physician population to match that of the general population. That may or may not be good for patients, but I don't think we should kid ourselves saying that the motivation behind this stuff is helping people. It's all politics.

I also find the concept that a patient can only be comfortable and "empowered" with a physician of his own race offensive and nonsensical. This kind of mentality is what contributes to de facto segregation in our society.

EXACTLY! No offense, but the Hispanic community isn't going to feel any more comfortable with somebody who doesn't truly identify with the ethnicity and is just like "oh, i put it on applications". You got to take the good with the bad, every time I've been called a racial epithet has been countered with something helpful for job applications and college acceptances...there are two sides to every coin.

P.S. before you said Cubans were URM...they are not. Only Boricuas and Mexicanos are URM for Latinos

If I were you I would not embrace that help you are getting for jobs and college. You are actually happy that you get judged on a different curve than other races? Lowering standards for minorities is as offensive as making it more difficult for them to gain admission. Both cases say that we don't think minorities are good enough or smart enough to succeed.

 

[Dr Lyss]

I am 1/2 hispanic (mother is full), but more "spanish" than mexican (lighter skin ). Father is white. Mother doesn't speak spanish, which according to her, was because there was lots of racism in los angeles where she grew up and they just mainly tried to assimilate as whites.

Since I'm only 1/2, don't speak spanish, come from an upper-mid class family, and look white, would it look detrimental to put hispanic?

I value my cultural heritage, but don't really want to draw any red flags. Better to put white and not mention anything about this?

I'm Hispanic but I don't speak Spanish fluently. I had no problems - but I got asked a few times on interviews why I didn't speak Spanish (which I found annoying, it's not like I chose to not learn Spanish). As long as you don't put that you speak the language fluently on your AMCAS, then it shouldn't be an issue. You don't have to speak Spanish to be a full fledged Hispanic, even though some people like to think that. You are what you are.

 

[Anotherface]

And this is why I disagree with considering race in admissions decisions. I'm pretty sure almost every Spanish-speaking only family would be more comfortable with me, a lily-white student doctor who is fluent in Spanish, than an English speaking Latino. The idea that we should be breaking down which Latin American nationality is URM and which is not is just stupid.

If the goal is to get doctors who minorities can be comfortable with, then color of skin is not the best factor to consider. In reality though, that's not the goal. The goal is to get the racial makeup of the physician population to match that of the general population. That may or may not be good for patients, but I don't think we should kid ourselves saying that the motivation behind this stuff is helping people. It's all politics.

I also find the concept that a patient can only be comfortable and "empowered"/enfranchised with a physician of his own race offensive and nonsensical. This kind of mentality is what contributes to de facto segregation in our society

If I were you I would not embrace that help you are getting for jobs and college. You are actually happy that you get judged on a different curve than other races? Lowering standards for minorities is as offensive as making it more difficult for them to gain admission. Both cases say that we don't think minorities are good enough or smart enough to succeed.

Your entitled to your opinion. I wasn't by any means suggesting that skin color should be a factor or encouraging de facto segregation. It is just a sad reality that some minorities who have recently immigrated don't know english and do not trust the authorities (some of them rightfully so), whether it be law enforcement or health officials. Dealing with someone that they can relate with simply makes it easier for them to be receptive to those authorities.

Also, I agree with the statement you are making in that last paragraph. I was always offended when people assumed that I was in a position because of my ethnicity and not simply because of my own merit. That is why I've always persevered, and well let's just say it has paid off.

 

[LovelyMD]

EXACTLY! No offense, but the Hispanic community isn't going to feel any more comfortable with somebody who doesn't truly identify with the ethnicity and is just like "oh, i put it on applications". You got to take the good with the bad, every time I've been called a racial epithet has been countered with something helpful for job applications and college acceptances...there are two sides to every coin.

P.S. before you said Cubans were URM...they are not. Only Boricuas and Mexicanos are URM for Latinos

The actual AAMC definition of a URM was changed back in 2003. "Underrepresented in medicine means those racial and ethnic populations that are underrepresented in the medical profession relative to their numbers in the general population."

It used to just be Black, Mexican-American, Native American (that is, American Indian, Alaska Native, and Native Hawaiian), and mainland Puerto Rican.

On AMCAS there is no URM checkbox-- you just select your race/ethnicity.

 

[MsKrispyKreme]

I'm pretty sure almost every Spanish-speaking only family would be more comfortable with me, a lily-white student doctor who is fluent in Spanish, than an English speaking Latino.

I must agree.

Since Hispanics can be of ANY race (White, Black, Asian/Indigenous groups, or some combination of the groups), the defining element that holds such diverse groups together is the Spanish language.

There are some Hispanic people (especially the 1/2 White ones who are more likely to be raised strictly American) who are SO far removed from their culture that I sincerely doubt a Spanish-speaking only family would even be remotely comfortable with them. I've volunteered with Hispanic pre-meds who don't speak Spanish, are not familiar with most aspects of their culture, have limited expsoure to other Hispanics, only date Caucasians, only have Caucasian friends, no experience with the discrimination that comes from being a (visibly obvious) minority, etc. They come around a few months before AMCAS submission so they can put some Hispanic stuff on their app to bolster their URM status.

There's no way that AMCAS can or probably should verify one's "Hispanicness", but it is a definite abuse of the system. Especially for those non-Spanish-speaking applicants who lie about wanting to work primarily with the Spanish-speaking population. How can you do this comfortably if you don't speak the language, dude??? I actually overheard that on 2 of my interviews.

 

[D and D]

I agree with most of what has been stated already, but I just want to point out that the Spanish language is not the only thing that is important here (I'm not discussing admissions, but as far as a good doctor).

I've witnessed first hand the power a doctor can have on a patient who is of the same cultural background. My grandmother's original doctor simply told her to stop eating certain foods (foods that are part of our culture). Needless to say she didn't listen to him.

She eventually got a Puerto Rican doctor, who instead of telling her what to cut out, gave her substitutes that she knew my grandmother would be comfortable with, which my grandmother followed.

This isn't to say doctors who are not of the same cultural background as their patients aren't as good (especially in various specialties, as my example largely applies to primary care), it's just to point out that some things go beyond just language.

 

[ChemEngMD]

And this is why I disagree with considering race in admissions decisions. I'm pretty sure almost every Spanish-speaking only family would be more comfortable with me, a lily-white student doctor who is fluent in Spanish, than an English speaking Latino. The idea that we should be breaking down which Latin American nationality is URM and which is not is just stupid.

If the goal is to get doctors who minorities can be comfortable with, then color of skin is not the best factor to consider. In reality though, that's not the goal. The goal is to get the racial makeup of the physician population to match that of the general population. That may or may not be good for patients, but I don't think we should kid ourselves saying that the motivation behind this stuff is helping people. It's all politics.

I also find the concept that a patient can only be comfortable and "empowered" with a physician of his own race offensive and nonsensical. This kind of mentality is what contributes to de facto segregation in our society.



If I were you I would not embrace that help you are getting for jobs and college. You are actually happy that you get judged on a different curve than other races? Lowering standards for minorities is as offensive as making it more difficult for them to gain admission. Both cases say that we don't think minorities are good enough or smart enough to succeed.

Why would I not embrace the help?!? I am not saying that I am merit-less by any means, and I refuse to be a token minority, but I am far from the school of thought that the standards are lowered for us as a move of racism. In reality, universities are one of the few places where it is "easier" for minority applicants. In the real world, we are in a system that is set up for us to fail in all aspects, so gaining some sort of advantage in the field of education is a small life boat in a big blue perilous sea. I do see the unsaid racism that could be seen via the tendency to "lower" standards for minority applicants, but I think that these are not lowering due to intelligence but more so due to external factors that may have caused lower grades. Not to mention, the whole point of URM is to serve under-represented communities with more healthcare options and what not. How many white doctors are gonna go set up shop in East Harlem or Red Hook? Not many

 

[ChemEngMD]

I'm Hispanic but I don't speak Spanish fluently. I had no problems - but I got asked a few times on interviews why I didn't speak Spanish (which I found annoying, it's not like I chose to not learn Spanish). As long as you don't put that you speak the language fluently on your AMCAS, then it shouldn't be an issue. You don't have to speak Spanish to be a full fledged Hispanic, even though some people like to think that. You are what you are.

Dr. Lyss you know you are always full Boricua to me

I must agree.

Since Hispanics can be of ANY race (White, Black, Asian/Indigenous groups, or some combination of the groups), the defining element that holds such diverse groups together is the Spanish language.

There are some Hispanic people (especially the 1/2 White ones who are more likely to be raised strictly American) who are SO far removed from their culture that I sincerely doubt a Spanish-speaking only family would even be remotely comfortable with them. I've volunteered with Hispanic pre-meds who don't speak Spanish, are not familiar with most aspects of their culture, have limited expsoure to other Hispanics, only date Caucasians, only have Caucasian friends, no experience with the discrimination that comes from being a (visibly obvious) minority, etc. They come around a few months before AMCAS submission so they can put some Hispanic stuff on their app to bolster their URM status.

There's no way that AMCAS can or probably should verify one's "Hispanicness", but it is a definite abuse of the system. Especially for those non-Spanish-speaking applicants who lie about wanting to work primarily with the Spanish-speaking population. How can you do this comfortably if you don't speak the language, dude??? I actually overheard that on 2 of my interviews.

Krispy hits it on the head again. I go to school with a kid who tries to pad his "minority" resume so that when he goes to interviews he can make it look like he was really involved and really cares about his culture when in reality he distances himself from it totally and denies it half the time. I HATE that so much. At my university there are very few of us who go out of our way to improve the lives for the minority students and those of us who put our neck out there doing so will accept whomever is willing to take the help, but I can't stand when we are used. BAHH :end rant:

 

[MrBlonde]

Yeah it's a slippery slope, whether someone is "hispanic" enough to garner benefits in the whole admissions game. I would say it depends on the real reason you think these benefits are implemented in the first place.
That is to say whether you think,

A : we receive these benefits in manner to make up (or to assuage certain peoples' conscious) for the many of the injustices we incur, both presently and historically, because of our hispanic heritige. We are adrift in a perilous sea as ChemEngMD so eloquently put it.

Or, B: To provide a population of physicians who can "relate" (langauge) to their respective populations by evening the playing field.

Or, C: Both



What if someone who looks white, has a white last name and someone who espouses more of a typical white culture at the expense of their Hispanic culture, would it be disingenous to claim they are hispanic for the sake of benefits?

But what if they speak spanish (like the lilly white doctor of another post)?

Do they deserve it more than someone (like me), who although I don't speak Spanish, looks like a stereotypical Hispanic, has a Spanish last name, grew up in SE depressed border town, and has been subject to alot of racial hate talk because of the drummed up hysteria of the swine flu?

Finally, why do you think African-Americans get this benefit, A or B?


I would argue that the answer is mostly "A" (almost entirely so in African American case) afterall, if it was truly about language, the lilly white doc would be more deserving than me for any kind of benefit in med admissions . Finally I would like to add that relating patients would be more of function of your collective upbringing within a culture than the actual language, the fact that you gone through many of the same trials and tribulations (not having health insurance, inherent prejudices in this country as a minority, your mom made the same artery clogging chilaquiles as your patients etc). But still it's tough to know where the line gets drawn, the that fact that the OP has reservations really calls into question his "hispanicness". All my friends would probably shout from the rooftops they're Hispanic and proud of it.

 

[cpants]

I think the problem is that you guys are trying to have it both ways. You support a system where skin color and ethnicity are factored into admissions decisions, and then you get mad when someone who isn't black enough or hispanic enough (per your interpretation of those terms) takes advantage of it. Not everyone of a certain ethnic background has the interest or opportunity to participate in culture groups or learn the language. People shouldn't have to fit into some mold of correct ethnic behavior to be deserving of URM status.

Kind of makes you think. Maybe we should be making these decisions based on the quality of a person's experiences and character rather than the color of their skin.

Personally, I don't feel that I or any other white people owe minority groups anything other than respect and treatment as equals. Preferential admissions and hiring practices are, by definition, not a part of that.

 

[Anotherface]

I think the problem is that you guys are trying to have it both ways. You support a system where skin color and ethnicity are factored into admissions decisions, and then you get mad when someone who isn't black enough or hispanic enough (per your interpretation of those terms) takes advantage of it. Not everyone of a certain ethnic background has the interest or opportunity to participate in culture groups or learn the language. People shouldn't have to fit into some mold of correct ethnic behavior to be deserving of URM status.

Kind of makes you think. Maybe we should be making these decisions based on the quality of a person's experiences and character rather than the color of their skin.

Personally, I don't feel that I or any other white people owe minority groups anything other than respect and treatment as equals. Preferential admissions and hiring practices are, by definition, not a part of that.

They shouldn't have to, but in an ideal world it would be great if they did. Like Mr. Blond said, there is often a correlation between ethnicities and economic hardships or hardships induced by discrimination. Obviously, it is those peoples' jobs to work hard to overcome the said adversities, but that is not always possible. Hence, why some people benefit from ethnicity.

Honestly, I also think it is right that certain people benefit because they were disadvantaged. Disadvantaged status I feel should ensure that all those who do not fall under URM category and suffered from the aforementioned hardships, get an opportunity.

 

[MsKrispyKreme]

I think the problem is that you guys are trying to have it both ways. You support a system where skin color and ethnicity are factored into admissions decisions, and then you get mad when someone who isn't black enough or hispanic enough (per your interpretation of those terms) takes advantage of it. Not everyone of a certain ethnic background has the interest or opportunity to participate in culture groups or learn the language. People shouldn't have to fit into some mold of correct ethnic behavior to be deserving of URM status.

Kind of makes you think. Maybe we should be making these decisions based on the quality of a person's experiences and character rather than the color of their skin.

Personally, I don't feel that I or any other white people owe minority groups anything other than respect and treatment as equals. Preferential admissions and hiring practices are, by definition, not a part of that.

*sigh*

I really wish you would stop posting in this subforum...

 

[ChemEngMD]

*sigh*

I really wish you would stop posting in this subforum...

Co-sign

How often does this clown come around the subforum?

 

[cpants]

*sigh*

I really wish you would stop posting in this subforum...

Co-sign

How often does this clown come around the subforum?

Sorry guys. I didn't realize this was only a place for people who agree with you. Anyway, the only reason I posted in the first place was because I saw the Spanish-language reference in the title of the thread. I certainly don't post here often. In fact, I've only ever posted in one other thread in this forum and that was almost 4 months ago.

 

[Dr Lyss]

Dr. Lyss you know you are always full Boricua to me

Oh how I've missed you so, Chem... and lil Jose has missed you too

 

[Dr Lyss]

*sigh*

I really wish you would stop posting in this subforum...

Co-sign

How often does this clown come around the subforum?

Hey, hey! play nice you two! Everyone should be able to share their opinion... because I would be damned if someone try to shoo me away from a certain subforum

 

[ChemEngMD]

Oh how I've missed you so, Chem... and lil Jose has missed you too

Haha! I miss jose and you very much . I'm back on here now though since the semester is over and I'm back to my lame ass internship. You ready for Cornell yet? lol

 

[Dr Lyss]

Haha! I miss jose and you very much . I'm back on here now though since the semester is over and I'm back to my lame ass internship. You ready for Cornell yet? lol

I'm getting ready! I have until August to mentally prepare for the hell that will be med school.

 

[MsKrispyKreme]

*abrazos para Dra. Lyss*

I'll be good.

Sorry guys. I didn't realize this was only a place for people who agree with you.

Not at all true. There have been differing opinions expressed in this very thread. If you would take the time to read the discussion instead of salivating at any opportunity to inject your uninformed broken-record opinon about race-based issues regardless of what was previously said, then you'd be welcomed.

Or if you would post in other URH threads such as the one I made about Dr. Carson or the one a pre-med made asking for advice or the one about the SNMA conference -- then MAYBE folks wouldn't doubt the sincerity of your posts so much. If you want to cry & moan about URMs, there's a pretty active thread in Pre-Allo where some White & Asian posters share your views and are even discussing their perceived genetic superiority.

 

[MsKrispyKreme]

I'm getting ready! I have until August to mentally prepare for the hell that will be med school.

Me 2.

 

[ChemEngMD]

*abrazos para Dra. Lyss*

I'll be good.



Not at all true. There have been differing opinions expressed in this very thread. If you would take the time to read the discussion instead of salivating at any opportunity to inject your uninformed broken-record opinon about race-based issues regardless of what was previously said, then you'd be welcomed.

Or if you would post in other URH threads such as the one I made about Dr. Carson or the one a pre-med made asking for advice or the one about the SNMA conference -- then MAYBE folks wouldn't doubt the sincerity of your posts so much. If you want to cry & moan about URMs, there's a pretty active thread in Pre-Allo where some White & Asian posters share your views and are even discussing their perceived genetic superiority.

The people in the pre-allo are really really annoying me. You'd think they had no clue of what reality is. Frustrating, I'm staying out of there for a while.

 

[cpants]

*abrazos para Dra. Lyss*

I'll be good.



Not at all true. There have been differing opinions expressed in this very thread. If you would take the time to read the discussion instead of salivating at any opportunity to inject your uninformed broken-record opinon about race-based issues regardless of what was previously said, then you'd be welcomed.

First of all, I don't see how my opinion is considered uninformed. Because I am not personally a URM? Secondly, I don't see how I am a broken record. I reread my posts, and I didn't repeat myself. Thirdly, I have, in fact, read everything and responded to several specific posts on this thread. I've tried to make substantive points. This stands in contrast to what you are doing, which is launching a baseless attack on someone without responding to points made in his posts and wishing a dissenting opinion would just go away.

Or if you would post in other URH threads such as the one I made about Dr. Carson or the one a pre-med made asking for advice or the one about the SNMA conference -- then MAYBE folks wouldn't doubt the sincerity of your posts so much. If you want to cry & moan about URMs, there's a pretty active thread in Pre-Allo where some White & Asian posters share your views and are even discussing their perceived genetic superiority.

I am not crying and moaning about URM's, and I assure you my posts have been sincere. I guess I am stuck in a catch-22 here. My posts have no validity unless I closely follow the URH forum, yet you and ChemEng wish I wouldn't post at all in the URH forum. Oh well.

 

[FullThrottle]

I can't remember what the application offers as an option. If you are able to put down both your cultural backgrounds then do so. I actually spoke to two of my colleagues who are half white and half Hispanic who do not speak Spanish. They put down they were White for race and Hispanic for ethnicity. They personally didn't do it to gain an advantage or anything like that but rather it's what they felt best represented who they are.

I think the most important points will be your personal statement, academic records, letters of recs, and EC. Working hard, showing understanding of the field, keeping your intellectual curiosity to a max, and showing attributes of a compassionate and respectfull individual will always be helpful.

 

[SleepingJune]

I think the problem is that you guys are trying to have it both ways. You support a system where skin color and ethnicity are factored into admissions decisions, and then you get mad when someone who isn't black enough or hispanic enough (per your interpretation of those terms) takes advantage of it. Not everyone of a certain ethnic background has the interest or opportunity to participate in culture groups or learn the language. People shouldn't have to fit into some mold of correct ethnic behavior to be deserving of URM status.

Kind of makes you think. Maybe we should be making these decisions based on the quality of a person's experiences and character rather than the color of their skin.

Personally, I don't feel that I or any other white people owe minority groups anything other than respect and treatment as equals. Preferential admissions and hiring practices are, by definition, not a part of that.

Skin color and ethnicity have been included in admissions decisions for a quite a while; just not in the way you think (I recommend paying particular attention to page 2):

Getting In: The Social Logic of Ivy League Admissions

"The difficult part, however, was coming up with a way of keeping Jews out, because as a group they were academically superior to everyone else.......Lowell—and his counterparts at Yale and Princeton—realized that if a definition of merit based on academic prowess was leading to the wrong kind of student, the solution was to change the definition of merit."

Also, David Hekman and colleagues just published research on the topic of skin color and perception:

Perceptions: A Customer Bias in Favor of White Men

Wage Gap Linked to Customer Bias

While I would love to believe the color of my skin and my ethnic background have no role on how people perceive me, society as a whole prevents this from occurring right now. Frankly, I can't wait for the day something like the URM option could feasibly go away; it would imply the larger conditions of 1) general racial acceptance and 2) equal access to outstanding education (neither of which currently exist).

When it comes to skin color, a lot of people will always have (and cling to) their perceptions; their stereotypes. And ideas that are so deeply ingrained can take a long ass time to change, if ever. So in my eyes, having a medical school option that acknowledges this is certainly welcome.

 

[SleepingJune]

They put down there were White for race and Hispanic for ethnicity. They personally didn't do it to gain an advantage or anything like that but rather it's what they felt best represented who they are.

Good point, FullT.