William Carey 2017 Masters in Biomedical Sciences Post Bacc program

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BlackStar90

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Hey all, I wanted to start this thread for anyone who has already gone through the WC MBS program as well as those who still plan on applying even though a tornado ripped through the campus as well as those who have been accepted and plan to attend still. I'm open to all insight about the program and medical school. I will admit I am concerned about the rebuilding of the campus but I've heard some pretty good things about the program from friends that are in it and those who went through it. I'm just welcoming more insight about the program. My current situation is that I've been accepted into the MBS program. I'm waiting to hear back from:

Creighton's certificate post bacc program
PCOM Georgia's Special Masters program

As well as interview invites from two Allopathic medical schools and three Osteopathic medical schools.

I guess part of what I would like to hear would be peoples perspectives on the WC program and what they think would be in my best interest. Although I would say as of right now the WC MBS is still my top back up plan because their percentage of students that get into professional schools is pretty solid.

I look forward to hearing what my fellow colleagues have to say!

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In the last week they already made some serious progress on campus! Things should be ok by the fall.

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After a few days they already had a wall up on the undergrad green science building. And pretty much all of the debris was gone. I'm sure it will take a few months, but they were telling the kids in dorms that they should be able to move back in for the fall trimester.

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Sounds great! It sounds like the COM will be getting new facilities, seems exciting. Are you in the College of Medicine?
 
No, I'm still undergrad... i graduate in may, and I'm applying to med school next summer.

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Good deal. Are you applying to WC's COM?
Yes, I'd love to go there! I'm also going to apply to schools in the surrounding states. I really love william carey. my professors are great, and hattiesburg is small but nice.

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Yes, I'd love to go there! I'm also going to apply to schools in the surrounding states. I really love william carey. my professors are great, and hattiesburg is small but nice.

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Cool, we could end up in the same COM class lol. So you would say from what you hear about it that it is a good program? I'vebeen hearing mixed things but mostly good.
 
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Cool, we could end up in the same COM class lol. So you would say from what you hear about it that it is a good program? I'vebeen hearing mixed things but mostly good.
I believe they had some trouble in the beginning. Most has been worked out. I've discussed this with some of the DO's that I work with and they've all said not to worry about it.... basically every school gives the same academic info, and your comlex scores are based on how much effort you put into your education. If you don't put in the required work you won't score well no matter where you go to school. If you really put in the work you'll do well. So I'm not concerned, because I plan on busting butt for the duration.

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I believe they had some trouble in the beginning. Most has been worked out. I've discussed this with some of the DO's that I work with and they've all said not to worry about it.... basically every school gives the same academic info, and your comlex scores are based on how much effort you put into your education. If you don't put in the required work you won't score well no matter where you go to school. If you really put in the work you'll do well. So I'm not concerned, because I plan on busting butt for the duration.

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Exactly that's how I feel. You can go to Hopkins and still not do well, it depends on you as an individual how well you will perform. Males sense. I just want to make sure there is nothing I need to know about as far as accreditation risk wise.
 
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Exactly that's how I feel. You can go to Hopkins and still not do well, it depends on you as an individual how well you will perform. Males sense. I just want to make sure there is nothing I need to know about as far as accreditation risk wise.

There are no accreditation issues with WCUCOM or their MBS program. I saw on another thread that their campus will be fully repaired from the tornado by Aug 1st when Fall classes start.


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There are no accreditation issues with WCUCOM or their MBS program. I saw on another thread that their campus will be fully repaired from the tornado by Aug 1st when Fall classes start.


Can you put in the link to the thread?

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I believe I saw it in the DO school specific threads which were trending. Go take a look.


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You got II's mane. Don't need no SMP
 
You got II's mane. Don't need no SMP


LoL man you never know how things turn out! I haven't gotten any interview invitations and now I'm down to wait to hear from 4 schools. But my stats are kinda sucky so it's a toss up for me haha. I just thank God I got into the Masters program.
 
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I was just accepted today!

Congrats. Just posting a factually based/objective view of WCU MBS. I'd encourage everyone to read it before deciding on WCU MBS.

I'm closely related to someone in the WCU MBS program. To say that the level of disappointment in this program is high would be a disappointment. We're all disappointed.

Dr. Roark is a nice guy from what I've heard. However, they've currently sent out 6 secondaries to current MBS students. 17 applied out of the program. There was allegedly a 3 person MBS committee that decided whether or not an MBS student got a secondary and therefore got an interview. They cut off the MCAT at around 495 from what I've been told. They essentially disregarded MBS performance as the student of the year, who had a 4.0 GPA in the MBS program, did not get a secondary. There were several other students who I've been told have fairly strong (above 3.5 MBS GPA) performances but were not given an interview.

According to the operating rationale, Dr. Weir, the Dean of Admissions, believes there is a correlation between MCAT and board scores, which might be fair in general, but the research does not bear this rationale out given one thing that's currently circulating, which will be addressed with a link below. I've read two of the widely referenced articles published on this topic and there is a GENERAL correlation between between MCAT and board scores, but there is no research that would allow anyone to conclude that a 500 would indicate an increased probability over someone with a 495 to pass/score well on the USMLE/COMLEX. The separation and classification of these studies based on scores is not a major consideration. The only study I read considered "high" scorers as 35 and "low" scorers as 28. That's an 11 point difference for the purpose of the study converted to the new MCAT, and the conclusion was the 11 point difference had moderate to low correlation generally speaking. A 5 point difference is half that and the correlation would be even lower.

Anyway, I say all that to say this:

WCU College of Osteopathic Medicine and Millsaps College confirm partnership for medical students | William Carey University

Students have found out that Dr. Weir initiated a partnership with his alma mater, Milsaps, to GUARANTEE admission to the WCU COM. The requirements are 500 MCAT and 3.25 UGPA. So, 500 MCAT is the baseline to operate from. There are students in the low to mid 490s with relatively strong performances (above 3.5) in WCU's own Master's program who didn't receive interviews. So you go from 100% chance coming from Milsaps with a 3.25/500 to a 0% with 495/3.5+ MBS GPA at WCU. The board score argument is also not germane given the separation between 500 and 495. Even at 492 it would be a low correlation because the University of Minnesota's study concluded low to moderate correlation.

One obvious question is why WCU COM partnered with a Methodist school to guarantee admission to 10 students to increase recruitment efforts at Milsaps when WCU's OWN UNDERGRADUATE UNIVERSITY DOESN'T HAVE THIS TYPE OF AGREEMENT IN PLACE. It's a recruitment tool for Milsaps. Why WCU wants to recruit good students to Milsaps as opposed to their own school is beyond me. Mississippi College would make more sense. I promise, though, Dr. Weir would not want to commit 20% of his class potentially to students tied into Milsaps and WCU.

The other obvious question is why they don't consider the Master's work in their own program taught by the WCU's COM faculty as superior to an undergraduate education at Milsaps.

The glaring deficiency in their rationale is published stats by the AAMC indicate one is more likely to be accepted to allopathic medical school with a 3.6/494-497 than someone with a 3.2/500. Yet, the new initiative that guarantees admission to Milsaps students bucks this trend. The sliding scale descriptively employed seems not to apply here. Also, this is master's level work and it's less respected than Milsaps UGPA.

So DO NOT EXPECT THIS PROGRAM TO GET YOU INTO WCU COM WITHOUT A 500ish MCAT. They'd argue it's not portal and it doesn't replace MCAT. But last year students with lower MCAT scores were accepted leaving the current students confused to say the least. They're partially arguing the competitive applicant class with higher average MCAT scores this year as the reason for fewer interviews. However, if that's the case, and it fluctuates depending on the applicants, WHY AGREE TO GUARANTEE ADMISSION TO 10 MILSAPS STUDENTS WITH 3.25/500? In 3 years, 500 may be low for WCU.

So, the 50% stats MIGHT have been true last year BUT they must be contextualized. Several got in off the WL. And this year's class WILL NOT get 50% of applicants into the COM as of now. At best, 6/17 will be admitted as it stands now.

I'll update if it changes, but the secondary submission deadline has passed. There is more I've been told, but this accurate summarizes many current MBS students' attitudes toward the MBS program.
 
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Congrats. Just posting a factually based/objective view of WCU MBS. I'd encourage everyone to read it before deciding on WCU MBS.

I'm closely related to someone in the WCU MBS program. To say that the level of disappointment in this program is high would be a disappointment. We're all disappointed.

Dr. Roark is a nice guy from what I've heard. However, they've currently sent out 6 secondaries to current MBS students. 17 applied out of the program. There was allegedly a 3 person MBS committee that decided whether or not an MBS student got a secondary and therefore got an interview. They cut off the MCAT at around 495 from what I've been told. They essentially disregarded MBS performance as the student of the year, who had a 4.0 GPA in the MBS program, did not get a secondary. There were several other students who I've been told have fairly strong (above 3.5 MBS GPA) performances but were not given an interview.

According to the operating rationale, Dr. Weir, the Dean of Admissions, believes there is a correlation between MCAT and board scores, which might be fair in general, but the research does not bear this rationale out given one thing that's currently circulating, which will be addressed with a link below. I've read two of the widely referenced articles published on this topic and there is a GENERAL correlation between between MCAT and board scores, but there is no research that would allow anyone to conclude that a 500 would indicate an increased probability over someone with a 495 to pass/score well on the USMLE/COMLEX. The separation and classification of these studies based on scores is not a major consideration. The only study I read considered "high" scorers as 35 and "low" scorers as 28. That's an 11 point difference for the purpose of the study converted to the new MCAT, and the conclusion was the 11 point difference had moderate to low correlation generally speaking. A 5 point difference is half that and the correlation would be even lower.

Anyway, I say all that to say this:

WCU College of Osteopathic Medicine and Millsaps College confirm partnership for medical students | William Carey University

Students have found out that Dr. Weir initiated a partnership with his alma mater, Milsaps, to GUARANTEE admission to the WCU COM. The requirements are 500 MCAT and 3.25 UGPA. So, 500 MCAT is the baseline to operate from. There are students in the low to mid 490s with relatively strong performances (above 3.5) in WCU's own Master's program who didn't receive interviews. So you go from 100% chance coming from Milsaps with a 3.25/500 to a 0% with 495/3.5+ MBS GPA at WCU. The board score argument is also not germane given the separation between 500 and 495. Even at 492 it would be a low correlation because the University of Minnesota's study concluded low to moderate correlation.

One obvious question is why WCU COM partnered with a Methodist school to guarantee admission to 10 students to increase recruitment efforts at Milsaps when WCU's OWN UNDERGRADUATE UNIVERSITY DOESN'T HAVE THIS TYPE OF AGREEMENT IN PLACE. It's a recruitment tool for Milsaps. Why WCU wants to recruit good students to Milsaps as opposed to their own school is beyond me. Mississippi College would make more sense. I promise, though, Dr. Weir would not want to commit 20% of his class potentially to students tied into Milsaps and WCU.

The other obvious question is why they don't consider the Master's work in their own program taught by the WCU's COM faculty as superior to an undergraduate education at Milsaps.

The glaring deficiency in their rationale is published stats by the AAMC indicate one is more likely to be accepted to allopathic medical school with a 3.6/494-497 than someone with a 3.2/500. Yet, the new initiative that guarantees admission to Milsaps students bucks this trend. The sliding scale descriptively employed seems not to apply here. Also, this is master's level work and it's less respected than Milsaps UGPA.

So DO NOT EXPECT THIS PROGRAM TO GET YOU INTO WCU COM WITHOUT A 500ish MCAT. They'd argue it's not portal and it doesn't replace MCAT. But last year students with lower MCAT scores were accepted leaving the current students confused to say the least. They're partially arguing the competitive applicant class with higher average MCAT scores this year as the reason for fewer interviews. However, if that's the case, and it fluctuates depending on the applicants, WHY AGREE TO GUARANTEE ADMISSION TO 10 MILSAPS STUDENTS WITH 3.25/500? In 3 years, 500 may be low for WCU.

So, the 50% stats MIGHT have been true last year BUT they must be contextualized. Several got in off the WL. And this year's class WILL NOT get 50% of applicants into the COM as of now. At best, 6/17 will be admitted as it stands now.

I'll update if it changes, but the secondary submission deadline has passed. There is more I've been told, but this accurate summarizes many current MBS students' attitudes toward the MBS program.
Wow. Thank you very much for this perspective. It kinda makes sense seeing that Do schools will rise in competitiveness as they merge the residencies. Thanks!

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The take away here is that all students need to be wary of any post-bacc/SMP program. Less than 50% of RVU's MS students have been accepted to their DO school as well and there have been many complaints. Then at other SMP's, students are pitted against one another, and the grades are curved so the administration can control the number of students who make the transition to their DO program. The best strategy in my mind is to get a good score on the MCAT. Don't let that be a limiting factor whether you are applying directly to a DO school or from a post-bacc/SMP program.


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Wow. Thank you very much for this perspective. It kinda makes sense seeing that Do schools will rise in competitiveness as they merge the residencies. Thanks!

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What are your stats? If you do not have a 500 MCAT, and you have 3.4+ UGPA, save your money. Take an MCAT prep class.

I know for a FACT this is the best advice on WCU MBS.
 
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The take away here is that all students need to be wary of any post-bacc/SMP program. Less than 50% of RVU's MS students have been accepted to their DO school as well and there have been many complaints. Then at other SMP's, students are pitted against one another, and the grades are curved so the administration can control the number of students who make the transition to their DO program. The best strategy in my mind is to get a good score on the MCAT. Don't let that be a limiting factor whether you are applying directly to a DO school or from a post-bacc/SMP program.


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Right on.

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Nah my GPA needs alot of help sub 3.0 so the Masters is advantageous for me.

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hey, anyone accepted recently or weighing this program against others? just curious about everyones thought processes, how they feel about the program, etc. Post here or you can hit me in the pm's if you'd like
 
I've been accepted to MBS. I'm debating between this and going to the Caribbean (SGU) for medical school. If I don't get into the DO program after this, and have to spend another year, that's two years delay, so I'm currently leaning towards SGU, but still debating.
 
You've been a member of SDN for two years, and you've come to the conclusion that SGU is a plausible gamble? The first thing I would have done if I were in your shoes is to apply to SMP's which have a more direct linkage to their DO program like VCOM's. That said, lets break down the SGU vs WCU MS option. At SGU, you're looking at a four year tuition rate of $246K negating living expenses. Then, if you do not flunk out, and attempt to match, you may have less than a 50% chance of getting a residency in the U.S.

Assuming a one year SMP at most schools is around $30K, with at least a 50% probability of getting into their associated DO program, the cost/benefit analysis definitely tilts in the SMP's favor. I don't know what your MCAT score(s) are, but I did note that you only have a 2.7 undergrad GPA. You really need to minimize your financial risk here and attend an SMP in the U.S. Then, if you don't make the cut to get into a DO program, explore Plan B career alternatives. You really do not need to become another Caribbean financial horror story.
 
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I've been accepted to MBS. I'm debating between this and going to the Caribbean (SGU) for medical school. If I don't get into the DO program after this, and have to spend another year, that's two years delay, so I'm currently leaning towards SGU, but still debating.

I will agree with wljdenver. There are so many odds stacked against you going into and coming out of a Carribian school. Unless you do almost perfect on your Steps and possibly do research you will be highly limited. I have two very intelligent friends who decided to do Carribian schools instead of post baccalaureate programs or Masters programs. They are going through it.

I honestly feel like those schools are for students who excelled in the class but couldn't quite figure out the MCAT. (Or those who could have but got impatient)

Just to tell you as quick story: I had a friend who decided to do a review program for one for three months (UMHS) he pretty much flunked the review program, came back took classes pulled his GPA up to around a 3.3 got a 25. Now he is getting ready to take the STEP & COMPLEX at VCOM Auburn.

Take it from me. If you got to the Caribbean school in now it will always be an option. Take a chance, invest in yourself and do something that could help you get into a US Medical school. That's my advice to you but then again I don't know your situation. Things may be particular for you. But financially if that's an issue William Carey's MBS will have you good when the refund checks drop.

Let us know what you do! Times ticking though!
I've been accepted to MBS. I'm debating between this and going to the Caribbean (SGU) for medical school. If I don't get into the DO program after this, and have to spend another year, that's two years delay, so I'm currently leaning towards SGU, but still debating.


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The take away here is that all students need to be wary of any post-bacc/SMP program. Less than 50% of RVU's MS students have been accepted to their DO school as well and there have been many complaints. Then at other SMP's, students are pitted against one another, and the grades are curved so the administration can control the number of students who make the transition to their DO program. The best strategy in my mind is to get a good score on the MCAT. Don't let that be a limiting factor whether you are applying directly to a DO school or from a post-bacc/SMP program.


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Heed these words careful everyone. Don't believe that all these SMP are what they say they are. I know several people that got screwed over by them. Make sure you know their track record before you apply and how doable it is. Don't walk in with a 3.8 GPA and 490 MCAT thinking that this SMP is a guaranteed in. They are not meant for people with high GPAs, they are meant for people who have a poor GPA and cannot get it up with retakes. You need to retake your MCAT, and yes I've seen countless people on here and in real life make this mistake.
 
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You've been a member of SDN for two years, and you've come to the conclusion that SGU is a plausible gamble? The first thing I would have done if I were in your shoes is to apply to SMP's which have a more direct linkage to their DO program like VCOM's. That said, lets break down the SGU vs WCU MS option. At SGU, you're looking at a four year tuition rate of $246K negating living expenses. Then, if you do not flunk out, and attempt to match, you may have less than a 50% chance of getting a residency in the U.S.

Assuming a one year SMP at most schools is around $30K, with at least a 50% probability of getting into their associated DO program, the cost/benefit analysis definitely tilts in the SMP's favor. I don't know what your MCAT score(s) are, but I did note that you only have a 2.7 undergrad GPA. You really need to minimize your financial risk here and attend an SMP in the U.S. Then, if you don't make the cut to get into a DO program, explore Plan B career alternatives. You really do not need to become another Caribbean financial horror story.

Source?
As a recent US IMG grad (Caribbean or whatever), 78% FM applicants got a residency. This is straight off the 2013 NRMP charting outcomes.
 
Source?
As a recent US IMG grad (Caribbean or whatever), 78% FM applicants got a residency. This is straight off the 2013 NRMP charting outcomes.

Why is your status Dental Student?

Its actually 67% that matched from SGU into their first choice residency. Only 43% of US IMGs matched into FM based on the 2013 NRMP reports.

For FM, it is now 49% for US IMGs in the 2016 NRMP reports.
 
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Why is your status Dental Student?

Its actually 67% that matched from SGU into their first choice residency. Only 43% of US IMGs matched into FM based on the 2013 NRMP reports.

For FM, it is now 49% for US IMGs in the 2016 NRMP reports.

That 43% includes ALL US IMGs regardless of when they graduated. Not recent grads (that survived the flunking out etc.) as the poster i quoted is implying.
For recent grads, check page 76 of 2013 NRMP data.

All 3 data points you presented don't represent the odds of matching as a fresh IMG grad.
 
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That 43% includes ALL US IMGs regardless of when they graduated. Not recent grads (that survived the flunking out etc.) as the poster i quoted is implying.
For recent grads, check page 76 of 2013 NRMP data.

All 3 data points you presented don't represent the odds of matching as a fresh IMG grad.

Page 76 only shows internal medicine and ranking of different specialities for the 2013 IMG report. Please link the document and find the page number.
 
Page 76 only shows internal medicine and ranking of different specialities for the 2013 IMG report. Please link the document and find the page number.

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uplo...tional-Medical-Graduates-Revised.PDF-File.pdf
Sorry it's page 76 of 221 for the entire pdf but page 70 on the actual report if that makes sense.
Look for the words "number of years after medical school graduation" that'll probably be easier. I only looked it up for FM.
 
Source?
As a recent US IMG grad (Caribbean or whatever), 78% FM applicants got a residency. This is straight off the 2013 NRMP charting outcomes.
Well this thread got interesting... Here is the source:
IMG Performance in the 2017 Match - ECFMG News

Of the 5,069 U.S. citizen IMG participants, 2,777 (54.8%) were matched to first-year positions, a decrease of 92 from last year. The decision to attend a Caribbean medical school is multifactorial, but in lieu of focusing upon recent match statistics, the analysis should be driven by future match probabilities as well. Here, the odds are becoming even more daunting due to the upcoming ACGME/AOA combined match, an increasing number of U.S. MD/DO graduates, and a static number of funded residency positions in the U.S.

Before I would recommend the Caribbean alternative to anyone, I would recommend some other allied health programs first which simply have a much higher ROI.
 
Well this thread got interesting... Here is the source:
IMG Performance in the 2017 Match - ECFMG News

Of the 5,069 U.S. citizen IMG participants, 2,777 (54.8%) were matched to first-year positions, a decrease of 92 from last year. The decision to attend a Caribbean medical school is multifactorial, but in lieu of focusing upon recent match statistics, the analysis should be driven by future match probabilities as well. Here, the odds are becoming even more daunting due to the upcoming ACGME/AOA combined match, an increasing number of U.S. MD/DO graduates, and a static number of funded residency positions in the U.S.

Before I would recommend the Caribbean alternative to anyone, I would recommend some other allied health programs first which simply have a much higher ROI.

Again, that 54.8% doesn't in any shape or form represent the odds of matching as a fresh grad who survived the flunking out, which is what you were implying. Please don't just use data if you don't know what that represent.
I'm not telling anyone to go to the Caribbean. I'm merely pointing out the fact that the part of your post i quoted is wrong. Do you disagree?
 
You're not correct in the context of the poster i quoted. The poster i quoted was talking about fresh IMG grads, not ALL IMG grads.

The definition of "I stand corrected" means I made a mistake and was corrected. However, your initial post was that 78% of US-IMGs match into FM. You didn't state this was IMG seniors. Once I understood the meaning of what you were saying and the page you were referring, I knew then what you were getting at.
 
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The definition of "I stand corrected" means I made a mistake and was corrected. However, your initial post was that 78% of US-IMGs match into FM. You didn't state this was IMG seniors. Once I understood the meaning of what you were saying and the page you were referring, I knew then what you were getting at.
Fair enough. Apologies. Seems like you're one of the few I could have a civil discussion with.
None of us here on sdn is promoting the IMG pathway. It's just odd seeing so many people here using numbers when they have no idea what the data really means.
 
Fair enough. Apologies. Seems like you're one of the few I could have a civil discussion with.
None of us here on sdn is promoting the IMG pathway. It's just odd seeing so many people here using numbers when they have no idea what the data really means.

I myself have been guilty of this through the years. Had plenty of times where I was corrected by Caribbean graduates and it has made me more understanding of the NRMP data.
 
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