Why is IM always at the bottom for career satisfaction?

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Captain DO

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On medscape reports and other sources, IM is consistently at the bottom for overall job satisfaction. Also, most respondents to these surveys state they would choose a different speciality...the 2016 report says only 23% of IM docs would choose the same speciality if they had to do it over again.

Why do you think this is?

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On medscape reports and other sources, IM is consistently at the bottom for overall job satisfaction. Also, most respondents to these surveys state they would choose a different speciality...the 2016 report says only 23% of IM docs would choose the same speciality if they had to do it over again.

Why do you think this is?

lol

not sure why that keeps being my response to everything lately

some things never change, and some things are self-evident, I guess
 
here's why

Make up of things I admit:
-50 % are chronic conditions with a known diagnosis (COPD, CHF, CAD, DM, etc.). Mostly caused by smoking, diet, and medication non-compliance. The healthcare system would likely have improved outcomes and decreased costs if instead of involving an internist we just got these patients a life coach, personal trainer and nutritionist.
-20% are dumps from other services with admission to medicine because the specialists hate dealing with all the social bull**** and/or don't want to come to the ER after 5pm and say "just admit to medicine."
-15% are social admits because our healthcare system sucks and instead of providing resources to EM docs to facilitate placement of patients, we instead have the 3 day inpatient rule for SNF placement.
-10% have actual acute medical problems through no fault of their own. The diagnosis of this is generally pretty straight forward.
-5% have something interesting/confusing that I truly need the broad differential of an internist to help me with before a specialist gets involved as once they get involved they will only be focused on their specialty.

In the ideal medical system most patients would fall under the last category and we would actually use our medicine colleagues for their diagnostic acumen. Instead, the medicine service is the dumping ground of the hospital system. The trash comes in through the ER front door and leaves through the back door which is the Medicine service. It is one continuous assembly line of processed ****, fueled by unrealistic consumer expectation and malpractice attorney cupidity. It's why i'm forced to admit that 85 year old with chest pain because god forbid that one 85 year old dies comfortably in her bed while sleeping from a massive STEMI. Instead we must send her to the assembly line for the million dollar workup only to die 6 months later from metastatic cancer after suffering 4 horrible months on chemo.

"In the ideal medical system most patients would fall under the last category and we would actually use our medicine colleagues for their diagnostic acumen. Instead, the medicine service is the dumping ground of the hospital system. The trash comes in through the ER front door and leaves through the back door which is the Medicine service. It is one continuous assembly line of processed ****, fueled by unrealistic consumer expectation and malpractice attorney cupidity. It's why i'm forced to admit that 85 year old with chest pain because god forbid that one 85 year old dies comfortably in her bed while sleeping from a massive STEMI. Instead we must send her to the assembly line for the million dollar workup only to die 6 months later from metastatic cancer after suffering 4 horrible months on chemo."

And now, my fave quote from Scrubs that used to be my signature:

Dr. Cox: "Pumpkin, that's modern medicine. Advances that keep people alive that should have died along time ago, back when they lost what made them people. Now your job is to stay sane enough so that when someone does come in that you actually can help, you're not so brain dead that you can't function"
 
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and while no medical show is particularly accurate, I'm always quick to point out that House and the most of the docs in Scrubs, are actually internists, FWIW.
 
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On medscape reports and other sources, IM is consistently at the bottom for overall job satisfaction. Also, most respondents to these surveys state they would choose a different speciality...the 2016 report says only 23% of IM docs would choose the same speciality if they had to do it over again.

Why do you think this is?

Have you done your IM rotation yet?

One thing I can tell you, is that many people go into IM for the wrong reasons. Getting to see exciting rare presentations? No No No. It's great if you want to be responsible for a huge knowledge base and you want to retain most of what you learned in med school, but that stuff won't be what you actually do most of the time, even though it's always in the back of your mind. You better love and get fulfillment from managing chronic illness. If you're looking to roam the hospital stamping out disease, you picked the wrong field.

Also, some go in only wanting fellowship, and hating IM. Some get stuck!

It also helps if you have a real heart for caring for the chronically ill, and you're not that judgemental how they got themselves to your door. Mother Teresa-like love of CHF, COPD, ESLD, ESKD, DM2, obesity, substance abuse, poverty, low health literacy/education, so much of which are lifestyle factors that either aren't gonna change or it's too late... is helpful IMHO, and frankly, I've found it hit or miss in internists. Even so, it's a lot of psychosocial factors of sadness and stress, and that takes a toll even on a big heart.

You frequently "tune up" people who are going to "bounce back." And not bounce back in the good way, bounce back to be readmitted to the hospital in short order.

Even docs that love the medical side of managing chronic illness, still find the social, financial, administrative barriers/tasks etc to be somewhat draining over time.

Whatever I would do over 2 weeks just trying to tweak the beta blocker and lasix dose to try to get euvolemia and avoid orthostatic hypotension in my CHF/CLD'er, would not be nearly as frustrating as the hoops and paperworks and discussions with SW just trying to get SNF placement.

You could say I signed up for both, but on some level one is what you actually *have* to do the manage the *patient* and the other, is made up busywork that doesn't exist in the rational mirror universe, or even bizarro land, Sweden, but is just a byproduct of our administrative medicolegal system of pure waste.

Those tasks are always trying to suck the marrow from your bones, and while they absolutely cannot be cut out of your day, it ends up that time with individual patients is the variable you can control and cut to make space for this bull****.

It didn't make me overly stressed having so many exciting things to click through in the EHR, notes to read on my patients. I loved going to see them, except that I hated going to see them, because of the notes hanging over my head to finish. The notes I sort of enjoyed writing when it was thoughtful, and each day was like an unfolding puzzle in numbers and words, however I sort of hated it when it was the #1 limiter of my time with patients or eating meals, and half the time it was this ridiculous copy pasta but I had to waste enough time being sure to make it look like it wasn't the bull**** that it is.

My example, we all help patients with less than exciting medical problems that fall in our sphere on the regular. However, the amount of paperwork or administrative task burden and sense of futility can be high in IM.

When you cut out all the kids under 12 (mostly everyone under 18), all the pregnant people, and you mostly relegate yourself to the hospital, and outpatient you got FM docs mostly doing the outpt stuff.... ultimately you've set yourself up to be the master of medical trainwrecks. Which is what you should want to be if you choose IM. You are not choosing the well. You are choosing the sick, as your patient population. Even if you go outpatient, you are likely to attract more complicated patients for all I said, and it's frankly a waste of your training if you're not. Then if you go outpatient you are facing all the challenges PCPs do, but with sicker people as your base.

This can all be fun mentally, but can have a sense of futility to your spirit unless you take pleasure in the "tune up" or ongoing management, and will carry with it so many stressors from outside the hospital that you can't control but control you and the patient, for better or mostly worse.

While it isn't the absolute bulk of your patients, probably the worst ones you'll get are the gomers, or just other old people that aren't too gone to feel suffering, but aren't really calling the medical decision-making shots anymore. You also have your other old or dying. Cancers. Everyone trapped in a bed of urine with bedsores for one reason or another (motorcycle accident, MS, ALS, MD, etc etc), trying to not to die from an infection of wind, water, wound.

So far, I only really addressed the patient population, most seen dx, the administrative BS and psychosocioeconomic determinants of health that one faces in IM.

I'm less familiar with all the things that attendings have experience with that might be particularly draining in IM, doing it for years, the financial, billing, malpractice, medicolegal aspects over time.

Many people laud the 7 on and 7 off schedule, but as I understand it, that week the attending is on, the hours are actually the same for a resident during an inpatient month, maybe worse with no work hour restrictions, only the attending's census can be twice as big, and they don't have the sort of caps on admits and all that residents do.

So working harder than a resident does every other week with a week off in between might not be the Promised Land 10-40 years in that people expect it to be, especially if they didn't go in really wanting what it is to be a general internist.
 
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Money isn't everything, and it's crass to say, but I think money actually does have a lot to do with it. In internal medicine (particularly inpatient medicine, but on the outpatient side to some degree) you have to deal with all the things that @Crayola227 described above, AND you have to do it while knowing that all the people dumping on you are making multiples of your income.

You'll know that policymakers are taking the shortage of IM and IM subspecialties seriously when the pay differential starts to narrow (but I wouldn't hold my breath)
 
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Have you done your IM rotation yet?

One thing I can tell you, is that many people go into IM for the wrong reasons. Getting to see exciting rare presentations? No No No. It's great if you want to be responsible for a huge knowledge base and you want to retain most of what you learned in med school, but that stuff won't be what you actually do most of the time, even though it's always in the back of your mind. You better love and get fulfillment from managing chronic illness. If you're looking to roam the hospital stamping out disease, you picked the wrong field....

I agree with what you said, I really like general medicine and think it could be an enjoyable career if you had the right set of circumstances, but the current system really makes it tough not to burn out. Subspecializing can allow for a higher medicine-to-BS ratio, though the latter is definitely still present in all fields.

There are definitely some happy hospitalists and primary care docs, but you have to go into it knowing what you're getting into.
 
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In the outpatient world, increasing pressure to see an ungodly number of patients, paperwork, chronic pain, paperwork, noncompliance, paperwork, fear of litigation. All that and you get paid about as much as a CRNA. Its a pretty crappy deal, and its no surprise that most people run away from primary care.

The inpatient side, see all the above.
 
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Have you done your IM rotation yet?

One thing I can tell you, is that many people go into IM for the wrong reasons. Getting to see exciting rare presentations? No No No. It's great if you want to be responsible for a huge knowledge base and you want to retain most of what you learned in med school, but that stuff won't be what you actually do most of the time, even though it's always in the back of your mind. You better love and get fulfillment from managing chronic illness. If you're looking to roam the hospital stamping out disease, you picked the wrong field.

Also, some go in only wanting fellowship, and hating IM. Some get stuck!

It also helps if you have a real heart for caring for the chronically ill, and you're not that judgemental how they got themselves to your door. Mother Teresa-like love of CHF, COPD, ESLD, ESKD, DM2, obesity, substance abuse, poverty, low health literacy/education, so much of which are lifestyle factors that either aren't gonna change or it's too late... is helpful IMHO, and frankly, I've found it hit or miss in internists. Even so, it's a lot of psychosocial factors of sadness and stress, and that takes a toll even on a big heart.

You frequently "tune up" people who are going to "bounce back." And not bounce back in the good way, bounce back to be readmitted to the hospital in short order.

Even docs that love the medical side of managing chronic illness, still find the social, financial, administrative barriers/tasks etc to be somewhat draining over time.

Whatever I would do over 2 weeks just trying to tweak the beta blocker and lasix dose to try to get euvolemia and avoid orthostatic hypotension in my CHF/CLD'er, would not be nearly as frustrating as the hoops and paperworks and discussions with SW just trying to get SNF placement.

You could say I signed up for both, but on some level one is what you actually *have* to do the manage the *patient* and the other, is made up busywork that doesn't exist in the rational mirror universe, or even bizarro land, Sweden, but is just a byproduct of our administrative medicolegal system of pure waste.

Those tasks are always trying to suck the marrow from your bones, and while they absolutely cannot be cut out of your day, it ends up that time with individual patients is the variable you can control and cut to make space for this bull****.

It didn't make me overly stressed having so many exciting things to click through in the EHR, notes to read on my patients. I loved going to see them, except that I hated going to see them, because of the notes hanging over my head to finish. The notes I sort of enjoyed writing when it was thoughtful, and each day was like an unfolding puzzle in numbers and words, however I sort of hated it when it was the #1 limiter of my time with patients or eating meals, and half the time it was this ridiculous copy pasta but I had to waste enough time being sure to make it look like it wasn't the bull**** that it is.

My example, we all help patients with less than exciting medical problems that fall in our sphere on the regular. However, the amount of paperwork or administrative task burden and sense of futility can be high in IM.

When you cut out all the kids under 12 (mostly everyone under 18), all the pregnant people, and you mostly relegate yourself to the hospital, and outpatient you got FM docs mostly doing the outpt stuff.... ultimately you've set yourself up to be the master of medical trainwrecks. Which is what you should want to be if you choose IM. You are not choosing the well. You are choosing the sick, as your patient population. Even if you go outpatient, you are likely to attract more complicated patients for all I said, and it's frankly a waste of your training if you're not. Then if you go outpatient you are facing all the challenges PCPs do, but with sicker people as your base.

This can all be fun mentally, but can have a sense of futility to your spirit unless you take pleasure in the "tune up" or ongoing management, and will carry with it so many stressors from outside the hospital that you can't control but control you and the patient, for better or mostly worse.

While it isn't the absolute bulk of your patients, probably the worst ones you'll get are the gomers, or just other old people that aren't too gone to feel suffering, but aren't really calling the medical decision-making shots anymore. You also have your other old or dying. Cancers. Everyone trapped in a bed of urine with bedsores for one reason or another (motorcycle accident, MS, ALS, MD, etc etc), trying to not to die from an infection of wind, water, wound.

So far, I only really addressed the patient population, most seen dx, the administrative BS and psychosocioeconomic determinants of health that one faces in IM.

I'm less familiar with all the things that attendings have experience with that might be particularly draining in IM, doing it for years, the financial, billing, malpractice, medicolegal aspects over time.

Many people laud the 7 on and 7 off schedule, but as I understand it, that week the attending is on, the hours are actually the same for a resident during an inpatient month, maybe worse with no work hour restrictions, only the attending's census can be twice as big, and they don't have the sort of caps on admits and all that residents do.

So working harder than a resident does every other week with a week off in between might not be the Promised Land 10-40 years in that people expect it to be, especially if they didn't go in really wanting what it is to be a general internist.

Do you write? You should. Keep a diary.

A collection of your essays, your experiences on the wards would make for an honest and fair perspective of what doctors actually do.
 
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Do you write? You should. Keep a diary.

A collection of your essays, your experiences on the wards would make for an honest and fair perspective of what doctors actually do.
+1. She does a very thorough job of answering questions / just expressing herself.
 
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+1. She does a very thorough job of answering questions / just expressing herself.

Totes agree. Her post reminded me of Dr. Walsh (Do No Harm, neurosurgery). He was very honest about the National Health Service, and how his day to day is affected by it.

I don't think most patients realize why we only spend 5-10 minutes max with them.
 
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Totes agree. Her post reminded me of Dr. Walsh (Do No Harm, neurosurgery). He was very honest about the National Health Service, and how his day to day is affected by it.

I don't think most patients realize why we only spend 5-10 minutes max with them.
I generally spend 5-10 minutes with my patients because they are more than an hour late to clinic and the unaccountable and unfireable nurses have no qualms about checking them in five minutes before I'm supposed to go to conference. Asses, all of them. I'm happy to inform them if they ask.
 
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I generally spend 5-10 minutes with my patients because they are more than an hour late to clinic and the unaccountable and unfireable nurses have no qualms about checking them in five minutes before I'm supposed to go to conference. Asses, all of them. I'm happy to inform them if they ask.

I was aware how lucky I was.... intern year, you get a whole hour, and if the patient is more than 10 minutes late, they'll ask you, and if it's more than 15, it's automatic no. There were a few I took despite the "no" because I knew 45 minutes was still plenty. Halfway into the year they start cutting down the appt times but still pretty strict on the no show policy. It was only being spoiled by the TIME with patients that I could appreciate clinic.

Otherwise me and primary care outpt clinic :uhno:

It's bad because a lot of patients say, "the doctor (even if not you, just doctors in general) is always late" so they think they can just be late. They don't see why they should be the ones on time and wait for you, they figure if you wait for them you had plenty to do anyway and you'll just make the next patient wait, cuz that's what docs always do :rolleyes:

A lot of them really seem surprised when you explain how you end up late (someone ****ed you by showing up late!) and then how that ruins your day, their day, everybody's day, and best way for everyone to be (and the one least likely to kick your poor overworked doc in the teeth) was to just show up on time and chance having to wait.

Not disagreeing with you, just that the topic of timeliness, clinic policies, and further examining individual provider preference....

I think SDN can do so much to help students self-identify "who they are" medically speaking and why. I continue to learn about myself and the profession here.
 
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In the outpatient world, increasing pressure to see an ungodly number of patients, paperwork, chronic pain, paperwork, noncompliance, paperwork, fear of litigation. All that and you get paid about as much as a CRNA. Its a pretty crappy deal, and its no surprise that most people run away from primary care.

The inpatient side, see all the above.
I think you forgot to mention paperwork.
 
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Is paperwork really that much of a big deal? I'm only starting rotations next year but interested in either Heme-Onc or SurgOnc. I'd like to at least steel myself beforehand so I don't get burned out from pursuing what I'm interested in at such an early phase :laugh:
 
Is paperwork really that much of a big deal? I'm only starting rotations next year but interested in either Heme-Onc or SurgOnc. I'd like to at least steel myself beforehand so I don't get burned out from pursuing what I'm interested in at such an early phase :laugh:
yes, yes, it is...at times it seems like you do far more paperwork than medicine...even as a resident you spend more time taking care of notes than taking care of pt...once you are out in the real world there is even more to do...EMR frankly is more cumbersome than handwriting notes...
 
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yes, yes, it is...at times it seems like you do far more paperwork than medicine...even as a resident you spend more time taking care of notes than taking care of pt...once you are out in the real world there is even more to do...EMR frankly is more cumbersome than handwriting notes...

Man, that sounds rough... we didn't go to medschool just to become note-takers! :laugh: (kidding)
Oh well, at least reality won't be too much of a surprise to me haha
 
yes, yes, it is...at times it seems like you do far more paperwork than medicine...even as a resident you spend more time taking care of notes than taking care of pt...once you are out in the real world there is even more to do...EMR frankly is more cumbersome than handwriting notes...

Want to make writing notes more fun? Just pretend it's a Goosebumps-style choose your own adventure story.

To do a colonoscopy, turn to page 7. To continue monitoring serial CBCs while looking for SNF placement, turn to page 82.
 
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Want to make writing notes more fun? Just pretend it's a Goosebumps-style choose your own adventure story.

To do a colonoscopy, turn to page 7. To continue monitoring serial CBCs while looking for SNF placement, turn to page 82.

Your patient is getting ready to be discharged to the SNF, but you turn to page 103 and find that your patient develops C diff! Oh no! Add PO vancomycin and return to page 82.
 
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This was an eye opening and depressing thread . Already heard much of the same with a lot of docs though, so not too surprised


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On medscape reports and other sources, IM is consistently at the bottom for overall job satisfaction. Also, most respondents to these surveys state they would choose a different speciality...the 2016 report says only 23% of IM docs would choose the same speciality if they had to do it over again.

Why do you think this is?

Because IM sucks. Why the hell else would it be that way?
 
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Because IM sucks. Why the hell else would it be that way?

Why do you think most interns say they are Cards vs. GI?

It's a real shame. The world needs good primary care docs and hospitalists. The eroded practice with midlevels and the poor compensation/lifestyle is driving away otherwise competitive MDs.
 
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I think the main reason IM is strongly disliked is compensation.
Despite what many people/doctors/students preach, i think surgical subs are a greater grind, they are awlays discussing about how many procedues they can do in any given time, and how to improve.
 
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Why do you think most interns say they are Cards vs. GI?

It's a real shame. The world needs good primary care docs and hospitalists. The eroded practice with midlevels and the poor compensation/lifestyle is driving away otherwise competitive MDs.
There's also the fact that the CMGs are pushing hospitalists to see more and more patients a day. It's hilarious when EMCare has a white paper stating that the appropriate number of patients per hospitalists are in the 18-20 range, and then staffs a hospital with 2 attendings and an NP when the census is at 50 patients (so 60+ range once you count admits and discharges)... including supervising and teaching 3 residents.
 
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Pretty sure its the ****ty hospital culture, disrespectful staff that doesn't follow orders and non-complaint patients that makes it an overall dissatisfying experience. Most hospitalists have agency stripped from them by administrators, get bogged down in paperwork and barely get to interact meaningfully with patients. Insurance companies dictate what medications are appropriate and when especially in the outpt IM setting. Patients don't comply with medication regimens...repeatedly. Labs rarely getting done on time, nurses ordering things in physician's name without telling them, radiology dept refusing to image patient per order or send transporters for stat imaging. Then there's the specialist that gets consulted, assesses the patient and none of their recommendations are followed begging the question who thought it necessary to create senseless work in the first place and why no one redacted the consult after it was placed.
 
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Honestly, I feel like the moment you view being a doctor as just another job like being an accountant or being a teacher, you will likely be more "satisfied" with your career. If some days you are motivated to work, by all means work. But if you're not feeling it somedays, it's ok to just do the minimum amount of work to get by your shift.

Then again, I'm only a MS3 so what do I know
 
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Honestly, I feel like the moment you view being a doctor as just another job like being an accountant or being a teacher, you will likely be more "satisfied" with your career. If some days you are motivated to work, by all means work. But if you're not feeling it somedays, it's ok to just do the minimum amount of work to get by your shift.

Then again, I'm only a MS3 so what do I know

There's a VA job waiting for you in the future..
 
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In my area, I've been told by hiring officials that the average hospitalist spends approximately 2 years in a position. Now this may mean they switch to another hospitalist position at another hospital and this includes physicians who work a year before going back to fellowship but still, 2 years for average duration at one position isn't good.
 
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Because it's literally the worst field in medicine
 
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Because it's literally the worst field in medicine

It really depends on your personality, a lot of people like general IM. It's not that much different than family medicine and people seem pretty optimistic over on the FM forum. I suspect some of the additional dissatisfaction in GIM vs FM is because as alluded to earlier in this thread, some people got stuck in GIM when they really wanted a fellowship.
 
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It really depends on your personality, a lot of people like general IM. It's not that much different than family medicine and people seem pretty optimistic over on the FM forum. I suspect some of the additional dissatisfaction in GIM vs FM is because as alluded to earlier in this thread, some people got stuck in GIM when they really wanted a fellowship.
Yea both FM and GIM are the worst
 
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This thread is depressing, Is being a hospitalist really that bad? And one guy above mentioned compensation as a source of misery, is 250k not enough anymore? You may not be making 400k like the cardiologist but their job market is terrible, and fellows starting are lucky to get 300k nowadays. I haven't done my IM rotation yet, but I think I would be okay with not being able to "fix" people and just tuning them up and sending them out, as long as I get paid.
 
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This thread is depressing, Is being a hospitalist really that bad? And one guy above mentioned compensation as a source of misery, is 250k not enough anymore? You may not be making 400k like the cardiologist but their job market is terrible, and fellows starting are lucky to get 300k nowadays. I haven't done my IM rotation yet, but I think I would be okay with not being able to "fix" people and just tuning them up and sending them out, as long as I get paid.

It's not just the pay although that is a big part. For me, being a hospitalist felt like I was never given the respect I deserved at times. Sometimes I felt treated like a glorified resident at a few hospitals. Part of that is linked to pay: hospitalists don't bring in enough money usually to cover their salary so it's this constant do more (work more hours, see more patients, Bill higher) with no change in pay or benefits but the hospital isn't telling th surgeon to operate more or the gastronenterologist to scope more. Hospitalists are always being told how to do their job.

Part of it is that whenever the hospital admin needs a huge new procedure or policy to be implemented, it's the hospitalists who play a large role. They're a vital part of every hospital. Hospitalists are there in house 24/7 and All the other docs know they can count on hospitalists to provide good care to their patients so they admit their patients to the hospitalist service so they don't have to get called by nursing Yet when it comes to getting another fte or hiring a mid level to decrease average census by a few patients, hospital admin turns it down or waits until hospitalists have had 6 rough months with usually a few docs leaving before they start to think about adding staffing. Some Hospitals take advantage of hospitalists ans a good hospitalist program is very much often under appreciated.
 
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This thread is depressing, Is being a hospitalist really that bad? And one guy above mentioned compensation as a source of misery, is 250k not enough anymore? You may not be making 400k like the cardiologist but their job market is terrible, and fellows starting are lucky to get 300k nowadays. I haven't done my IM rotation yet, but I think I would be okay with not being able to "fix" people and just tuning them up and sending them out, as long as I get paid.

It's enough if you're working 30 hour weeks with 30 weeks vacation maybe
 
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I just wanted to say that i really enjoyed reading crayolas post as an incoming 1st year DO with IM/infectious disease on my mind.

Very informative.
 
It's enough if you're working 30 hour weeks with 30 weeks vacation maybe


Your making 5 times the median income. I will have a ton of loans to pay back too, but nobody making 250k is poor,
 
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Part of it is that whenever the hospital admin needs a huge new procedure or policy to be implemented, it's the hospitalists who play a large role. They're a vital part of every hospital.


What would happen if hospitalist didn't exist? Would the hospital lose money? Somebody here said hospitalist comp is only tied to how many patients they see, but if thats the case why are salaries rising ever year, they must be making the hospital money is some less obvious way.
 
What would happen if hospitalist didn't exist? Would the hospital lose money? Somebody here said hospitalist comp is only tied to how many patients they see, but if thats the case why are salaries rising ever year, they must be making the hospital money is some less obvious way.

Whoever said that has no clue. There is more to hospitalist compensation than billing E&M codes theres usually huge subsidizes from the hospital. Hospitals benefit immensely from their presence. I have quoted an article from 2011 below.

"The average amount of support per hospitalist is $131,564, or about $1.7 million per hospital medicine group seeing adult patients. The bulk of those dollars come from the hospital."

Subsidy or Payment?
 
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Whoever said that has no clue. There is more to hospitalist compensation than billing E&M codes theres usually huge subsidizes from the hospital. Hospitals benefit immensely from their presence. I have quoted an article from 2011 below.

"The average amount of support per hospitalist is $131,564, or about $1.7 million per hospital medicine group seeing adult patients. The bulk of those dollars come from the hospital."

Subsidy or Payment?

Interesting, thanks for the article, the picture is becoming clearer now that hospitals expect hospitalist to do more than see patients, where do they find time to perform quality initiative and outcome responsibilities.
 
Your making 5 times the median income. I will have a ton of loans to pay back too, but nobody making 250k is poor,

Am I supposed to feel bad about that? I'm also making 5 times less than the median ceo income. I should be paid what I'm worth, what other people make is irrelevant.
 
A lot of IMGs go into IM, in fact I think ~ 50% of IM positions are filled by IMGs. Maybe they go into IM with the intention of subspecializing but then don't get the opportunity to go into their specialty of choice and then are 'stuck' with Hospital/Outpatient IM? That could be part of it.
 
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So what's the verdict.. worth it or not to go into IM to be a hospitalist? Is it going to continue to not be worth it to work in a clinic ? I like IM but I also like outpatient a little more


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So what's the verdict.. worth it or not to go into IM to be a hospitalist? Is it going to continue to not be worth it to work in a clinic ? I like IM but I also like outpatient a little more


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That's totally up to you, no one is going to be able to answer that question for you.
 
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We don't get properly compensated for the actual work we do and we all know it. Hard to do this work and be treated like everyone's bitch knowing your pay is *multiples* less than the guys dumping onto you.
 
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You feel that way too in critical care?

Definitely. I spend lots of time babysitting neurosurgery and general surgery patients. Ortho, urology, and ENT all park their disasters (halp me!!!). Cardiology dumps on us. GI dump on us. Hospitalist wuth punt at the very slightest drop of a hat.

CV surg and Trauma are the only services with some self respect. But I guess it's easy to not GAF when you're getting paid so much and don't ever have to do any heavy lifting.

Look, I'm not starving. But I'm still underpaid for what I do relatively speaking.
 
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even with a ccu?

Sure. Us and the hospitalists. If they can.

I'm in the middle of trying to get a cardiologist to admit a 3rd degree heart block, not me, out of the ED as I post this. And itcall quite stupid because I will admit if they throw a fit but they won't get out of seeing the patient tonight anyway.
 
Sure. Us and the hospitalists. If they can.

I'm in the middle of trying to get a cardiologist to admit a 3rd degree heart block, not me, out of the ED as I post this. And itcall quite stupid because I will admit if they throw a fit but they won't get out of seeing the patient tonight anyway.

interesting. the ccu in my residency would routinely get micu overflow (rarely the other way around), but maybe its different outside of academia sans residents/fellows.
 
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