Why Haven't Pharmacists Unionized?

[josh6718]

It seems to be more and more the "norm" for pharmacists to be working long shifts without any opportunity for lunch breaks (let alone bathroom breaks). Meanwhile, work volume has continued to increase from what it was several years ago, and hours continue to be cut chain-wide while corporate churns out record profits.

Is it because of the number of new grads that pharmacists don't want to risk losing their jobs or because the majority feel like they can just 'deal' with the working conditions?

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[owlegrad]

Probably because pharmacists are well paid professionals and 'we' don't think we need a union. Why doesn't all labor unionize? Fear of retaliation maybe? The belief that union dues will not outweigh any benefit from unionizing?

 

[lord999]

Because all the union pharmacists decided to retire after they made their FU money, and the younger pharmacists cannot afford to not have a job.

 

[BenJammin]

Pharmacists will never be able to make a national union because the general public will laugh them out of existence. When you complain about your boohoo 10 minute lunch break while you make $150,000 a year, most people don't respect that.

 

[lord999]

Pharmacists will never be able to make a national union because the general public will laugh them out of existence. When you complain about your boohoo 10 minute lunch break while you make $150,000 a year, most people don't respect that.

Except that NARD/NCPA managed to do that with pharmacists that made 10X+ as much as the average pharmacist, but they have their businesses to defend and have no problem with defending their lunch.

The coal miners and police who make about what we do after hazard pay and overtime have very functional unions and fraternal societies, because it (it being money, safety conditions, and management relations) matters to them. You can make a union if you have motivated enough people work at any salary. There was a time when a pharmacist union did work, but this group of pharmacists isn't motivated and has too many liabilities to risk it all. I know what I'd do if I were CVS or Walgreens and faced unionization, ask my friends in NACDS and Wal-Mart in particular on legal anti-union tactics. Walgreens was stupid enough to get a union once, and they won't be burned by that again.To @BenJammin 's point, it doesn't have to be most people if management can easily wipe out any pro-union pharmacists, public be damned. Unions only work if management relations break down that far and retaliation is not a useful option.

I just received the collective National Credit Checks of every pharmacist who is in the Federal Service, and more than 2,000 of them have household debts larger than $750k and debt to salary ratios of 4:1 and above. We can give a bad deal to those staff, because what are they going to do, quit? It's those who have no debt that we have to figure out incentives to get them to work.

 

[owlegrad]

Pharmacists will never be able to make a national union because the general public will laugh them out of existence. When you complain about your boohoo 10 minute lunch break while you make $150,000 a year, most people don't respect that.

Who cares what the public thinks? You think the public cares about most unions?

 

[Mambo#5]

Pharmacists will never be able to make a national union because the general public will laugh them out of existence. When you complain about your boohoo 10 minute lunch break while you make $150,000 a year, most people don't respect that.

That doesn't make sense to me. What does someone's salary have to do with whether or not they have good working conditions? What difference does it make if an employee makes $15 an hour or $200 an hour? If the person making $7/hr pursues a different career to earn $80/hr they should still get a lunch break and all the breaks that anyone else does.

I don't follow the logic. Sounds like one of my techs, who feels a pharmacist should run around n do everything simply because they make more money. Makes no sense. Does the CEO run around and do what everyone else does including his job? It's really backward thinking. It's 2017.....

Most people who pursue higher degrees do so because they can earn a better living, do something that requires brainwork and not physical work. Every working person deserves a lunch break.

 

[confettiflyer]

You don't need a union to get better working conditions.


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[gwarm01]

I just received the collective National Credit Checks of every pharmacist who is in the Federal Service, and more than 2,000 of them have household debts larger than $750k and debt to salary ratios of 4:1 and above. We can give a bad deal to those staff, because what are they going to do, quit? It's those who have no debt that we have to figure out incentives to get them to work.

That's frightening. How are people getting that far in debt? Mortgage on a large house? My debt to salary ratio is just a little over 1:1 and I'm uncomfortable with that.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

We don't unionize because we're a bunch of cowards.

 

[lord999]

That's frightening. How are people getting that far in debt? Mortgage on a large house? My debt to salary ratio is just a little over 1:1 and I'm uncomfortable with that.

Two educations, a jumbo home (and possibly HELOC) loan, and two leased cars. It's actually not that hard (Thank you Fed Reserve for making money too cheap) to get subprime loans against a professional salary. Just makes it easier for The Man to own them for their productive lives.

Only group with a worse ratio in the Fed are the dentists. We've actually changed the rules because of their salary to debt ratios.

 

[John Detter]

We don't unionize because we're a bunch of cowards.

THIS. I feel that most pharmacists have the personality type where we keep silent about our frustrations, and when we get to the point where we can't keep silent any further, the anger built up is released in some passive-aggressive manner.

 

[Kharak]

police who make about what we do after hazard pay and overtime have very functional unions and fraternal societies, because it (it being money, safety conditions, and management relations) matters to them. You can make a union if you have motivated enough people work at any salary.

This is correct. In 2013 the average pay of a Port Authority of NY/NJ police officer was $124,467. The PAPD is all unionized.

'Extraordinarily High' Port Authority Police Overtime Triples Some Salaries

The argument of high pay against union organization is invalid. But many people still believe it and will make up more excuses against unionization out of fear of the unknown.

 

[Rouelle]

Just as importantly, why can't we get behind a single, powerful lobbying organization that represents our entire profession? Instead we have a half dozen lobbying bodies (APhA, NCPA, ASHP, etc) that are weak when we need one that is strong.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

It seems to be more and more the "norm" for pharmacists to be working long shifts without any opportunity for lunch breaks (let alone bathroom breaks). Meanwhile, work volume has continued to increase from what it was several years ago, and hours continue to be cut chain-wide while corporate churns out record profits.
Is it because of the number of new grads that pharmacists don't want to risk losing their jobs or because the majority feel like they can just 'deal' with the working conditions?

It's because every pharmacy organization, lobbying group, and other form of organized representation has been laughably incompetent.

Why should any union be different, and there is too much variability between pharmacists to expect them to unite.

 

[PolarPop]

The 1199 part of SEIU was founded by pharmacists years ago and today it is one of the most powerful healthcare unions in the US.

I think the only way to be in it is to work in a hospital in the NE though.

 

[Thankyou2017]

Some CVS and Rite Aid have union pharmacists as part of UFCW for Food Drug jobs.

From the web site of Union, http://www .ufcw.org/about/
"About – The United Food & Commercial Workers International Union"

members work at your favorite grocery and retails stores—like Kroger, Ralphs, Albertsons, Safeway, Vons, Supervalu, CVS, Rite Aid, Macy’s, Bloomingdales, and H&M—just to name a few.

 

[Hope1999]

We don't unionize because we're a bunch of cowards.

The big barriers for not unionizing may be;
1. Fear. Of retaliation by the employer.
2. Bystander apathy. That others will do it for the good of everyone so you don't have to.
3. Ignorance. That you can actually function without it.
I feel the strongest reason for unionizing should be that you can shape the future of the profession of pharmacy rather than let the business and economics do it for you.

 

[Hope1999]

It's because every pharmacy organization, lobbying group, and other form of organized representation has been laughably incompetent.

Why should any union be different, and there is too much variability between pharmacists to expect them to unite.

The big barriers for not unionizing may be;
1. Fear. Of retaliation by the employer.
2. Bystander apathy. That others will do it for the good of everyone so you don't have to.
3. Ignorance. That you can actually function without it.
I feel the strongest reason for unionizing should be that you can shape the future of the profession of pharmacy rather than let the business and economics do it for you.

 

[Hope1999]

Pharmacists will never be able to make a national union because the general public will laugh them out of existence. When you complain about your boohoo 10 minute lunch break while you make $150,000 a year, most people don't respect that.

The big barriers for not unionizing may be;
1. Fear. Of retaliation by the employer.
2. Bystander apathy. That others will do it for the good of everyone so you don't have to.
3. Ignorance. That you can actually function without it.
I feel the strongest reason for unionizing should be that you can shape the future of the profession of pharmacy rather than let the business and economics do it for you.

 

[wagrxm2000]

The big barriers for not unionizing may be;
1. Fear. Of retaliation by the employer.
2. Bystander apathy. That others will do it for the good of everyone so you don't have to.
3. Ignorance. That you can actually function without it.
I feel the strongest reason for unionizing should be that you can shape the future of the profession of pharmacy rather than let the business and economics do it for you.

Of your three posts, this one was the best.

 

[ornithoptor]

My two cents:

First, the set up of the retail pharmacy manager/staff structure make it very hard for union tactic to be effective. The most powerful tool of union of having strike can be easily negated by asking RPH manager to work more. Especially now staff works fewer hours. Also, more pharmacist are licensed in multiple states, and many work for agencies who will readily fill in for the striking pharmacists.

As for the hospital, staff pharmacists and clinical pharmacist have stable jobs with decent pay and great benefit, why risk that?

Second, new grads' willingness to participate vs. heavy burden of loan on their shoulders. Risk can be great for new grads who is not established to weather the storms. Who wants to be blackballed?

Third and the most important factor is that many of pharmacists are trapped by the word/title "professional" and "doctor of pharmacy"...... Some of us see our self being regulated with autonomy instead of corporate lemmings. Few even think that the needs of union is beneath us.

Should we have the same right as every other workers? Access to restroom break, lunch break? I will bet you that some still think not, and we should just take on the chin because we are "healthcare professionals." I guess our educational system has brainwashed us that equal basic human rights are secondary to our loyalty to our retail masters.

Regardless how the retail chain treated pharmacists less than their cashier on lunch and breaks, some of us will self justify on behalf of the abusers (company) that we are health care providers that patients counts on us. Not knowing that we simply contribute to the bottom line of Walls street investors. This self-importance behavior and thoughts are most damaging.

We have long lost the battle when Union had failed strike against Walgreens in the last attempt. We will soon lose the war with throng of new grads who not only have huge loans, but also buy into the teaching of their professors that they are special, independent professional with prescribing rights on the horizon......

We are racing to the bottom as a profession. For pharmacist who work in retail or have 5 years or less experience, the future is in your hand. Good Luck.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Pharmacists will never be able to make a national union because the general public will laugh them out of existence. When you complain about your boohoo 10 minute lunch break while you make $150,000 a year, most people don't respect that.

this means that people who make more than $150k/yr could be treated worse? such as doctors? yet, i know of no doctors that work in a condition that i was when i worked for cvs...

not sure it matters how much money you make, you need to be working in a humane condition in a country that spends trillions of dollars to keep its president's skin orange...

 

[UnicornOpt]

Kaiser pharmacists are unionized, and so far the optometrists, genetic counselors, and clinical laboratory scientists. I believe there is an environmental lawyer union.

There is an archived manuscript describing the history of how the optometrist union in KP developed that was pretty inspiring. It seemed like the UC Berkeley optometry school grads discussed with the UC Berkeley School of Law to help them properly establish a union in the 60s/70s.