Why do pre-med advisors get a bad rap? Is SDN a better advisor?

[Wahed]

In my process of preparing to apply to medical school I've reached the conclusion that no one can give you good advice in every regard. No one opinion alone can be trusted to tell you what will get you in to medical school, you have to take each persons opinion as a data point and look for trends. (Ex: some people say summer pre-req's are a red flag, most say they're fine. Overall trend: summer classes are not a red flag)

One major trend I've noticed is that everyone hates pre-med advisors except pre-med advisors. What did they do to deserve this reputation? Are they more ignorant than the general population of people interested in med school admissions process (due to not having a personal stake perhaps?) or do they appear ignorant because some people are making application decisions based on one data point (the opinion of one med school advisor?)

I make almost all of my decisions about medical school based on the search function of SDN. Is this reasonable? It seems like the aggregate opinions of thousands of people is a safer bet than one advisor who (for some reason, god bless em) is managing hundreds of overachieving 21 year olds trying to get into medical school.

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[Goro]

There's a thread in this forum somewhere on this very subject.

Just off the top of my head, people have posted that advisors have "advised"
retaking the MCAT when one already has a high score.
A (very) low scoring MCAT is fine for med school
That volunteering isn't necessary
That med schools don't like veterans
that they need to take a post-bac while already having a high GPA

They're almost like the revelations about Der Trumppenfuhrer's ties to the Russians, his obstruction of justice, and other faux pas...there are just so many you grow numb from them.

 

[JustAPhD]

Some premed advisers are wonderful, some not so much. The not so much group likely doesn't have the experience (or if they do, it's outdated) nor the training necessary to adequately advise premeds.

 

[JB50]

Realize your audience... people wouldn't be here most likely if they felt they were advised adequately.

But no mine was absolutely awesome and leaps and bounds than anything I learned on this Internet forum. Sorry SDN (not really).

 

[Danny L]

Probably depends on your school. My advisor worked on the admission committee for my schools (t20) med school. IMO her advice has been/is very valuable

I also wonder what the context for some of the stuff Goro is saying. For example on here anything above a 508 seems to be considered "high" but if the person expressed interest in going to a t20 med school, and advisor telling the person to retake the MCAT isn't outrageous

 

[Lawpy]

Advisors who are extensively familiar with medical school admissions are comparable, if not better, than what SDN offers.

 

[Kkshake]

SDN is not good at advisement whatsoever....I mean it's cool to hear what others think and learn about different topics...but when asking for advisement for your personal application the people on SDN tend to overly harsh and judgemental, acting like schools only care about your MCAT score and not other aspects of your app....

 

[JB50]

SDN is not good at advisement whatsoever....I mean it's cool to hear what others think and learn about different topics...but when asking for advisement for your personal application the people on SDN tend to overly harsh and judgemental, acting like schools only care about your MCAT score and not other aspects of your app....

Most people are just spitting back today what they read here yesterday

 

[Turkishking]

I've talked with a few advisers. The one in currently getting advised by tells me everything that's on SDN.

 

[libertyyne]

I have a suspicion that if your school has a medical school attached to it, it will have higher quality advising. t-20 / feeder schools also probably have better advising considering the number of candidates that they matriculate. The poor advising stereotype is probably the result of schools that have neither affiliations with a medical school, nor a real track record at sending people to medical school.

 

[raiderette]

SDN drilled into me the importance of applying early, and encouraged me to apply outside of my comfort zone. My advisor actually told me not to bother with my present school. To give her credit, though, she called every school on my wait list and I can't help but think it helped.

 

[popopopop]

Probably depends on your school. My advisor worked on the admission committee for my schools (t20) med school. IMO her advice has been/is very valuable

I also wonder what the context for some of the stuff Goro is saying. For example on here anything above a 508 seems to be considered "high" but if the person expressed interest in going to a t20 med school, and advisor telling the person to retake the MCAT isn't outrageous

This is probably the one about veterans.
Non-traditional (military) applicant seeking advice

 

[P0ke]

Mine told me "get straight A's. In retrospect, he was right, but the importance of that never really sunk in until I was in my 4th year of college and got a copy of the MSAR, read the numbers for the first time and thought "oh crap". I wish they had given us pre-meds a copy of the MSAR (only available in print back then) to flip through on day 1 so admissions statistics could become real and tangible to us rather than a vague and unguided statement of "get straight A's".

 

[sullen-burger]

Most people on here just repeat what has already been said.

 

[cactusman]

Most people on here just repeat what has already been said.

I'd say it's usually sound advice which could have been found simply by searching the forums more extensively.

 

[Prolix]

For me, I use SDN and my advisors for ideas, and then figure out what is best for my situation. At my school, it is a small school that usually sends people to the state school for medical school, so the advice is geared toward what gets one into the the state school. My advisor is good, but I think SDN gives me data from different perspectives for different schools. Thus, my advisor doesn't give me bad advice, per say, but the advice doesn't always fit my situation well. So for me, I use both, but I question the advice I receive, because it is a good idea to do what makes logical sense. I think if one blindly followed the advice given from SDN or one's advisor, one is in for trouble.

 

[Pepe18]

.

 

[Danny L]

My Experience - possible bad advice and another method of evaluating the application.

I have killer stats -- 523 MCAT and 3.97 GPA. Yet all I received initially was 8 waitlists. I have since been accepted to one of my top schools on the first day of waitlist movement. Now that my emotions have settled down, I can now reevaluate my application and see a possible weakness. I found it from reading the graduation booklet given out at my own graduation. When I looked at all the letter for the degrees behind the graduating physician's names I see that my mere BA in a science looks mediocre in comparison. Most of those who were accepted to the medical school of my undergraduate institution have multiple degrees or double majors at least. My mere BA looks weak. Many have masters, even some PhDs, or at least, a BS/BA. The few who only have the BA went to ivy league schools or close to that.

I could have gotten a double major or even a masters in the time frame of my undergraduate degree. But I was told not to bother or that the areas of concentration were too similar or would not interest medical schools. Not sure if my advisor saw my stats and assumed I would get into a good med school just based on my stats alone. Or did my advisor think that having lots of interests outside of medicine was better to get into medical school? I am not sure that I good advise.

I spent a year and a half taking courses I thought the AdComs would like, such as anatomy and Healthcare management or public Health or tax/investment and even a music course. In retrospect, I think this made my courseload look weak. The courses were practical, but not scientific enough. I think I should have focussed more on one particular area to get more letters after my name. This would have also been of benefit when it came to writing the essays about "what can you bring to this school". A second major translates into a subspecialty that AdComs like IMO.

My interviewing skills my not be perfect, but they cannot be THAT bad. I'm not a socially awkward person and certainly, the AdComs see many personality types so only the extremes get weeded based on the interview alone. I think "poor interview skills" is real, but overused as a reason many get medical school rejections. And I think that looking at the credentials of the graduating physicians from a medical school may be of use for analyzing strengths and weaknesses in your own app. Plus it might be a good guide to where you should apply. I do not doubt that some medical schools do emphasize a broader more diverse education more than others. I would have been able to determine that if I had seen the credentials of their accepted classes.

Unless I'm misunderstanding this, I don't think not having a double major is what caused you to get 8 waitlists. I know plenty of people w/ one major and worse/equal stats that got into t20 med schools no WL. Unless your undergrad is like really unknown or something, but even then a 523 MCAT should eliminate any doubts about your GPA

 

[Goro]

My interviewing skills my not be perfect, but they cannot be THAT bad. I'm not a socially awkward person and certainly, the AdComs see many personality types so only the extremes get weeded based on the interview alone. I think "poor interview skills" is real, but overused as a reason many get medical school rejections. And I think that looking at the credentials of the graduating physicians from a medical school may be of use for analyzing strengths and weaknesses in your own app. Plus it might be a good guide to where you should apply. I do not doubt that some medical schools do emphasize a broader more diverse education more than others. I would have been able to determine that if I had seen the credentials of their accepted classes.

I don't want to hijack the thread, but most people are terrible judges of their own interview performance. Also, I'm speculating that because there are a number of schools waitlist everybody they interview, you might have had the bad luck to get IIs to these types of schools. Just a thought.

But congrats on the accept all the same!!!

 

[Marrowist]

Back in my day we didn't even have Pre Med Advisors...

 

[coffeeandcodeine]

Unless I'm misunderstanding this, I don't think not having a double major is what caused you to get 8 waitlists. I know plenty of people w/ one major and worse/equal stats that got into t20 med schools no WL. Unless your undergrad is like really unknown or something, but even then a 523 MCAT should eliminate any doubts about your GPA

I just want to add to this and say that very few of the successful candidates I have seen have had more than one degree. It certainly is not a prerequisite for admission, even at top schools. The adcom members I have spoken with have indicated that they could care less about double majors, masters (except SMPs), B.S. vs B.A., etc. PhDs earn respect because those are difficult programs that require years of dedication, but it's definitely not worth getting your PhD just to earn acceptance to medical school.

I hope that current/future applicants who read this thread aren't caused unnecessary concern. You absolutely don't need to worry about your major, type of degree, or number of degrees.

 

[DameJulie]

My 2 cents might be biased, because I haven't had much positive experience with pre-med advisors (I am the type of student that advisers would say "You will not likely to get into a medical school).

Advisers like to work with students with killer stats and strong app when they walk in for advice. It makes their job easier, and increases their "success rate." Most wouldn't invest the time and energy to mentor a 3.0 student when they could mentor multiple 4.0 students and all they need is to tell them "You will get in."

There's one school where pre-med advisors would have their own competition of who can get the most students into medical school. In this case, they would only focus on those who's more competitive, rather than helping those with not competitive applicants but still want to fulfill their dreams.

 

[Turkishking]

My 2 cents might be biased, because I haven't had much positive experience with pre-med advisors (I am the type of student that advisers would say "You will not likely to get into a medical school).

Advisers like to work with students with killer stats and strong app when they walk in for advice. It makes their job easier, and increases their "success rate." Most wouldn't invest the time and energy to mentor a 3.0 student when they could mentor multiple 4.0 students and all they need is to tell them "You will get in."

There's one school where pre-med advisors would have their own competition of who can get the most students into medical school. In this case, they would only focus on those who's more competitive, rather than helping those with not competitive applicants but still want to fulfill their dreams.

These few cents are biased

 

[DoctorCrush]

My advisor called me greedy for wanting to become a doctor when I was already a nurse and been in the field for so long. She stated this career was for the young and not the old...mind you I'm 27...my nursing diploma was from an LPN program and my BS is Biology. No where did I mention anything that would make me seem greedy or doing it for money etc. I have a 3.44 GPA and she said that no school in the country will look at me. Also told me, "don't even think about utilizing your ethnicity"....I'm not even considered URM...

Out right told me that they do not think I have enough to make it into medical school because of my grades so they declined to write me a letter.

Every single day, every waking moment where I feel a tab bit burnt out or want to quit, I remember her words and I use that to fuel myself and fight to destroy the mcat and gain an acceptance.

 

[cactusman]

That is exactly what my pre-med advisor said. And I certainly will consider my interview as a possible weakness, but I did notice that I look weak when I compared the letters that will be after my name in comparison to those of the graduating medical school.

Did you already feel like your BA wasn't enough before you started looking at named school students' degrees, so that your observation might have been affected by confirmation bias? Your conclusion runs counter to what every adcom member on this site has said repeatedly, and what every premed counselor I've spoken with has said.

 

[Medic741]

SDN>>>>>advisor

Didn't know about SDN until mid-cycle. If I had asked a few questions here would have decided to delay applying & would have had a better app cycle.

Went to advisor and asked should I apply? Where should I apply? His question:
"What is a DO?"

So... yeah... go advisors... IMO they get the bad rap because so many of the are just *bad* at their job

 

[efle]

the AdComs see many personality types so only the extremes get weeded based on the interview alone.

When I looked at all the letter for the degrees behind the graduating physician's names I see that my mere BA in a science looks mediocre in comparison.

Most schools reject 40-70% of interviewed candidates, not just the extreme outliers. You don't have to be bad to get passed over, even being average/unremarkable could put you into that 40-70%. Initially going 0 for 8 is much more about how the interviews are going than what degree you have. Even at top 5-10 schools only a small minority have graduate degrees (for example, Hopkins and Harvard have 8% and 11% with grad degrees), but they do have huge numbers of people from outside sciences (like 40% of the class), and huge numbers that were traditional applicants and haven't even finished their bachelors yet.

It is possible something other than interviews was hurting you, but it def wasn't having a bachelor's.

 

[floatingribs]

Pre-med advisers vary by university, but considering the pre-med office in my university has it's walls plastered with SGU posters it probably isn't too great. The amount of pre-meds I know that thought SGU was a really good Caribbean school because "it's 2 years in USA" thus helping one match is absurd and is information that was passed on by pre-med advisers.

 

[Turkishking]

Pre-med advisers vary by university, but considering the pre-med office in my university has it's walls plastered with SGU posters it probably isn't too great. The amount of pre-meds I know that thought SGU was a really good Caribbean school because "it's 2 years in USA" thus helping one match is absurd and is information that was passed on by pre-med advisers.

My university has SGU posters plastered every where too. They don't have control over it. I've never actually talked about off-shore schools with my adviser. If she recommends them I'm pretty sure she's misinformed

 

[Dagrimsta1]

I would only trust an "adviser" if they suggest I go on SDN for extra info

 

[Lucca]

SDN has a lot of data and analysis that no other place on the internet has. The value in this is obvious: it gives people shortcuts to the information they need to best plan their own cycles. SDN is also very useful for nontraditional students and career changers who don't have a drop in career center to take advantage of. SDN has info and useful threads for every step from applying to medical school to applying for fellowship after residency. This can be useful if for no other reason that it gives you an outlet for your neuroticism and let's you talk about your experience with other people going through the same things.

Therefore, SDN does not fulfill the role of an advisor, although it certainly can. It's a different kind of DIY advising.

 

[hopeful25678]

Premed advisors vary from college to college. At my school, our only premed advisor told me I should stop doing premed when I got a C in chemistry(I got A's the next 2 terms and in Ochem). Her quote "Maybe you should look into nursing instead".
That's one of the reasons why everyone hates the advisor at my school, but my friend at another school says her advisor really helped her.
It's always good to look at multiple sources and multiple points of view.