New Nova School In Clearwater in 2019??????

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

2021Doctor

Membership Revoked
Removed
10+ Year Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2013
Messages
486
Reaction score
693
A fellow SDN member sent me a PM that NSU has announced plans to open a new school in Clearwater, Florida with an incoming first class in 2019.

I have not seen any link on the internet regarding this.

Are there any NSU students or other SDN memebers who can comment on this?

Members don't see this ad.
 
A fellow SDN member sent me a PM that NSU has announced plans to open a new school in Clearwater, Florida with an incoming ?first class in 2019.

I have not seen any link on the internet regarding this.

Are there any NSU students or other SDN memebers who can comment on this?
My post deleted for inaccuracy.
 
Last edited:
Isn't NOVA working on their MD school? How are they going to manage that on top of this branch campus??
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Members don't see this ad :)
A fellow SDN member sent me a PM that NSU has announced plans to open a new school in Clearwater, Florida with an incoming first class in 2019.

I have not seen any link on the internet regarding this.

Are there any NSU students or other SDN memebers who can comment on this?
Two years to get a branch campus opened? Good luck with that.

BTW kids, as soon as you can, join the AOA, and get involved in committees that can slow down this process, and work on giving COCA more teeth. That's the only way to stop this mindless expansion before residencies get saturated and new DO (AND MD) grads become unemployable like the lawyers are now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 9 users
Last year, the COCA could have hired my firm for advice, but we charge premium rates. Instead they decided to use a little mom and pop type of outfit to probably save at least 50% to 60% in consulting fees. What's that saying... penny wise and pound foolish.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
Last edited:
Isn't that Patel College of Medicine already currently trying to get a campus established in Clearwater for a 2018/2019 opening?
 
Two years to get a branch campus opened? Good luck with that.

BTW kids, as soon as you can, join the AOA, and get involved in committees that can slow down this process, and work on giving COCA more teeth. That's the only way to stop this mindless expansion before residencies get saturated and new DO (AND MD) grads become unemployable like the lawyers are now.

I'd rather spend my time lobbying to get the AOA disbanded and COCA merged with LCME :bang:
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Two years to get a branch campus opened? Good luck with that.

BTW kids, as soon as you can, join the AOA, and get involved in committees that can slow down this process, and work on giving COCA more teeth. That's the only way to stop this mindless expansion before residencies get saturated and new DO (AND MD) grads become unemployable like the lawyers are now.

Good call. When's that saturation gonna hit according to the Goro timeline? Lol


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
I was discussing more practical things.

The extinction of the AOA is coming as DOs are matching to ACGME residencies 2020 and beyond. Why the hell should any physician pay these ridiculous membership fees to these thieves?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Members don't see this ad :)
I am worried that it might be coming in the next few years.

I remember you used to not hold that view. Well, the entering class of 2021 will still not tip the scales for the ACGME residencies (assuming ~3000 more MD and DO grads than the c/o 2017), but the gap of MD and DO grads to res. positions will become ~3000, a decrease from ~6000 (counting only the current 28,849 ACGME residency spots and adding 3000 to 22,159 current participants in the ACGME match). But then if we add in AOA residences that make the cut, and then the likely 1.x% amount of residency growth per year, it doesn't look too grim. Edit: we have to subtract from the gap the amount of DO students only going AOA as well. Hopefully enough AOA positions can make it though to accommodate, otherwise the gap will be ~1000.

Assumptions:
-Everyone who starts graduates of the additional 3000 MS1's
-Those DOs not participating in the ACGME match will be essentially "covered" by the AOA spots that make the cut
-No percent increase in residencies

Source:
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Main-Match-Results-and-Data-2017.pdf


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
Last edited:
AOA =/= ACGME

I understand. But, the only reason that the AOA exists as an entity is due to the fees paid annually by DO physicians graduating from AOA residencies. That's no longer the case from now on.
 
I remember you used to not hold that view. Well the entering class of 2021 would still not tip the scales for the ACGME residencies (assuming ~3000 more MD and DO grads than the c/o 2017), but the gap of MD and DO grads to res. positions will become ~3000, a decrease from ~6000 (counting only the current ACGME residencies). But then if we add in AOA residences that make the cut, and then the likely 1.x% amount of residency growth per year, it doesn't look too grim.

Source:
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Main-Match-Results-and-Data-2017.pdf


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

There won't be a saturation of physicians due to the controlled growth of GME adjusted for our growing populations. However, with all the schools opening up in recent years, there will be a saturation of medical students for residency spots. The good news is that stuff won't hit the fan until 2025-2030.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I hope so...the stats from this years matches just looked to my eye like a fire bell in the night. I don't remember the exact number, but it had to do with the number of people not matching.
I remember you used to not hold that view. Well, the entering class of 2021 will still not tip the scales for the ACGME residencies (assuming ~3000 more MD and DO grads than the c/o 2017), but the gap of MD and DO grads to res. positions will become ~3000, a decrease from ~6000 (counting only the current ACGME residencies). But then if we add in AOA residences that make the cut, and then the likely 1.x% amount of residency growth per year, it doesn't look too grim.

Source:
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Main-Match-Results-and-Data-2017.pdf


Perhaps join the AMA, make the point that there is no longer a need to have an AOA, absorb the DOs, and then fix COCA accreditation of DO schools. Either way, you're the future of the profession. Just do something to stomp on the mindlessness of the AOA's "more DOs good!" mentality.
I understand. But, the only reason that the AOA exists as an entity is due to the fees paid annually by DO physicians graduating from AOA residencies. That's no longer the case from now on.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I hope so...the stats from this years matches just looked to my eye like a fire bell in the night. I don't remember the exact number, but it had to do with the number of people not matching.

I'd like to see that. The DO ACGME match rate was an all time high even with 722 more applicants to ACGME than last year. Was it the AOA match?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
I am worried that it might be coming in the next few years.
This is a different tone @Goro it kinda shocks me to hear it coming from you-- but if the numbers you're seeing are concerning i'll take your word on it. Do you think the new Rate Determining Step(RDS) will be residency since there's a pretty tight cap on GME?
 
Last edited:
This is different tone @Goro it kinda shocks me to hear it coming from you-- but if the numbers you're seeing are concerning i'll take your word on it. Do you think the new Rate Determining Step(RDS) will be residency since there's a pretty tight cap on GME?

Same. Would like to know what numbers though...


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
This is a different tone @Goro it kinda shocks me to hear it coming from you-- but if the numbers you're seeing are concerning i'll take your word on it. Do you think the new Rate Determining Step(RDS) will be residency since there's a pretty tight cap on GME?

Welcome to the New World Order in which the % of unmatched DOs is creeping higher while AOA continues to approve school openings left and right...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Welcome to the New World Order in which the % of unmatched DOs is creeping higher while AOA continues to approve school openings left and right...

Where is the data for this? NRMP reports do not show this. Is it the AOA match?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
Actually the percent of DOs matching is going up slightly. The overall number of unmatched is larger.

Source:
NMS data
NRMP outcomes
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I'll try and pull it up

Edit: you can go through the years and see how many matched through the NMS match at each college. They also have totals at the bottom. Compare this with the NRMP data to get the percentages

AOA Match Statistics
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I'll try and pull it up

Edit: you can go through the years and see how many matched through the NMS match at each college. They also have totals at the bottom. Compare this with the NRMP data to get the percentages

AOA Match Statistics

One thing is for sure--after the merger analyzing match data will be way easier. As it is, so much of the data leads to no useful conclusion.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Yeah but it has nothing to do with the fact that the overall percentage of DOs matching is going up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I just hope to hell for all of our sakes that there are options like Neuro, PMR, or GAS that are still available for average DOs with 225-235 Step 1 board assuming that they want to go into these fields. It should be a shame to see MDs with 215-220 matching into these fields with ease while DOs need to go 2 steps beyond the means like 240+ boards to even get into these fields. We will see...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I just hope to hell for all of our sakes that there are options like Neuro, PMR, or GAS that are still available for average DOs with 225-235 Step 1 board assuming that they want to go into these fields. It should be a shame to see MDs with 215-220 matching into these fields with ease while DOs need to go 2 steps beyond the means like 240+ boards to even get into these fields. We will see...

Lol... there is literally no reason DOs will not continue to match very well into these fields... the merger will have no affect on this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Lol... there is literally no reason DOs will not continue to match very well into these fields... the merger will have no affect on this.

Let's have this convo again after your Year 1. I also was drinking the cool aid similarly to you last year
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
Let's have this convo again after your Year 1. I also was drinking the cool aid similarly to you last year
Agree to this x100%
This change significantly once you are actually IN SCHOOL. You begin to know how climbing the medical totem pole actually works. You also begin to see and read exactly what is going on behind closed doors at DO schools to fudge up numbers and the truth to make themselves look good.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Hmm
Well that sucks you guys feel that way. I in no way mean to delegitimize your experience--Im glad you all are posting. That's precisely why I seek yours and others' opinions on the matter. Just wish there was more clarification on what you mean.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
I just hope to hell for all of our sakes that there are options like Neuro, PMR, or GAS that are still available for average DOs with 225-235 Step 1 board assuming that they want to go into these fields. It should be a shame to see MDs with 215-220 matching into these fields with ease while DOs need to go 2 steps beyond the means like 240+ boards to even get into these fields. We will see...
This is pure speculation that things will lead to having these fields be exploding with DOs that have 240+. The vast majority of the AOA spots are primary care. There's only a small amount of programs that are specialized, and it's not as if DOs are going to wiped out of these programs. Besides, most people that want to do Ortho, Derm, etc. are not dying to go into neurology/pmr/gas. In my experience, almost all DO students tend to have a "realistic" specialty in mind that they want before starting school knowing that they will be DOs, and it is until they start being on the top of the class and scoring 700+ on COMLEX that they take a serious trajectory into these incredibly competitive fields.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
Let's have this convo again after your Year 1. I also was drinking the cool aid similarly to you last year

Agree to this x100%
This change significantly once you are actually IN SCHOOL. You begin to know how climbing the medical totem pole actually works. You also begin to see and read exactly what is going on behind closed doors at DO schools to fudge up numbers and the truth to make themselves look good.

You two are a little ridiculous. One, just because I haven't started yet doesn't mean i can't read the charting outcomes. Two, I am not a normal pre-med. I have recent DO grads in my family, I've worked at a hospital for a number of years where 3rd and 4th year DO students rotate a lot, from multiple schools. I know how the medical totem pole works, and the games that must be played.

People match ACGME Gas and PMR with just a COMLEX score, and Neuro with low USMLE scores yet you guys are over here are trying to claim the merger will all of a sudden turn these fields into 240+... I'm not drinking kool-aid, I know the disadvantages to DO matching. Your statements just have no basis in reality. Instead of just telling me I don't know what I'm talking about because I haven't started school yet, maybe you should qualify your statements with factual arguments as to why the merger will so heavily affect these specialty fields that are already matched in high abundance by DOs.

This is pure speculation that things will lead to having these fields be exploding with DOs that have 240+. The vast majority of the AOA spots are primary care. There's only a small amount of programs that are specialized, and it's not as if DOs are going to wiped out of these programs. Besides, most people that want to do Ortho, Derm, etc. are not dying to go into neurology/pmr/gas. In my experience, almost all DO students tend to have a "realistic" specialty in mind that they want before starting school knowing that they will be DOs, and it is until they start being on the top of the class and scoring 700+ on COMLEX that they take a serious trajectory into these incredibly competitive fields.

This. There are only like 13 AOA anesthesia programs and the vast majority of Gas, Neuro, and PMR matches were already ACGME.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Welcome to the New World Order in which the % of unmatched DOs is creeping higher while AOA continues to approve school openings left and right...

The percentage this year of matched DOs is somewhere in the 80s, as its been for at least the last few years. I want to say based on the limited data we have, it's somewhere in the 80-88% range. Unless AACOM releases a report similar to the one they released last year, we can't really get much more specific than that.

Now that said, the number of DO graduates has increased, so obviously if the percentage is around the same and the number increased, then more DOs are going unmatched.

As for placement, it is likely around 99%, again as it's been. There's no real way to verify this unless an official report comes out, or someone with time on their hands makes up a full DO match list after getting official lists from all the schools.

Actually the percent of DOs matching is going up slightly. The overall number of unmatched is larger.

Source:
NMS data
NRMP outcomes

I'm not seeing how they've actually gone up. They're certainly close (looks practically the same to me over the last couple years), and I agree with the statement that the NRMP match rate has gone up, but the AOA one went down, so it seems to be a wash. We don't have sufficient data at this point, mainly because of the whole previous vs. current grad issue that always plagues these calculations.

If we're going back years, then yes, plotting it out does appear to show an overall increase in the potential range of total DO match rate by 1-2% over the last 4-5 yrs, but that's a .2-.3% change annually that we really can't verify without additional data. Too hard to say its for sure gone up. Its somewhere in the 80s.

Let's have this convo again after your Year 1. I also was drinking the cool aid similarly to you last year

How about after matching and graduating? I'm pretty sure I disagree with IP's and your statements on this and actually agree with AnatomyGrey12. There really is no reason to think DOs are going to have more trouble matching into those specialties after the merger, especially when a decent majority of DOs matching into those specialties are already doing so in the NRMP match.

There really are very few DO residencies in most specialties, save FM, IM, EM, Ortho, and maybe GenSurg or OB (depending on your definition of "very few"), as AlbinoHawk said above.

You don't have to drink the kool-aid, you just have to look at the numbers.

Now if you were to argue that overall competitiveness for all specialties will increase because of the sheer number of grads increasing or because of average board score creep that has been happening since the start of resources like Pathoma, then that's another issue (one that I'd probably agree with).
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
I really am starting to find 68 funny with his insistence that mildly competitive or uncompetitive fields are requiring DOs to have grand usmle scores. I mean I get it, a 235 is just a number to you right now.

But honestly, I know plenty of COMLEX only DOs who match into those fields with no issue. I know plenty of under 220s who are comfortable matching into those fields. No need to fan some hysterical flame and push the notion that everyone is going to get shafted. It's not cute.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
You two are a little ridiculous. One, just because I haven't started yet doesn't mean i can't read the charting outcomes. Two, I am not a normal pre-med. I have recent DO grads in my family, I've worked at a hospital for a number of years where 3rd and 4th year DO students rotate a lot, from multiple schools. I know how the medical totem pole works, and the games that must be played.
I didn't mean it to be personal. There is SO MUCH MORE going on behind these "charting outcomes" and the results from these "charting outcomes" don't reflect what actually is going on "behind the scenes." Each school has a very different way they report their numbers to the AOA. Every school has a different definition of who is considered a "graduate" vs. an "OMS-III" vs. an "OMS-IV" and schools manipulate these numbers and definitions to make their school look acceptable. This goes on BOTH the MD and DO side. I dare to say that it may even be worse or more extensive on the MD side where, for example, an unmatched student can claim a research year at the same institution and his/her absence won't be considered in the stats. Also, the charting outcomes you are referring to show an insignificant increase despite a 500 person gain in enrollment which means that, in reality, more people didn't match this year when compared to last year.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I didn't mean it to be personal. There is SO MUCH MORE going on behind these "charting outcomes" and the results from these "charting outcomes" don't reflect what actually is going on "behind the scenes." Each school has a very different way they report their numbers to the AOA. Every school has a different definition of who is considered a "graduate" vs. an "OMS-III" vs. an "OMS-IV" and schools manipulate these numbers and definitions to make their school look acceptable. This goes on BOTH the MD and DO side. I dare to say that it may even be worse or more extensive on the MD side where, for example, an unmatched student can claim a research year at the same institution and his/her absence won't be considered in the stats. Also, the charting outcomes you are referring to show an insignificant increase despite a 500 person gain in enrollment which means that, in reality, more people didn't match this year when compared to last year.


SO MUCH MORE, but like you know everything about what's going on.

Can you two literally just settle down and stop being so noisy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
...Also, the charting outcomes you are referring to show an insignificant increase despite a 500 person gain in enrollment which means that, in reality, more people didn't match this year when compared to last year.

He literally said this above. Here it is again, you actually quoted it:

Actually the percent of DOs matching is going up slightly. The overall number of unmatched is larger...

IP, I get what you're trying to say, but like you said, its true across the board. You're talking about variables and manipulations that most schools (MD and DO) do to "adjust" numbers. Its also stuff we can't quantify, and since its across the board it shouldn't really affect any of your considerations for say applying for residency or assessing competitiveness. Basically what I'm saying is that it doesn't matter. Focus on the things you can both quantify and interpret.

Your goal as a DO medical student is to do your best. Do your best in classes, do your best on boards, do your best on rotations, make connections, do research if need be, make your app appealing, and apply broadly to reaches and safeties. DOs do fine in either match, but don't make the mistake of thinking that DOs are "just DOs" or that bias is so huge that there's no point trying for what you really want.

Really, really, really, don't get caught up in every little detail (and I say this as someone constantly looking at specific numbers and details). Each individual thing (with the exception of board scores - and even then there are exceptions) will not on its own make or break your residency app. Work hard. You'll be fine as a DO, just like the vast majority of DOs before and hopefully after you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Wjldenver,

Thanks. The PM was clear that this is to be an NSU branch campus.
Would be nice to see comments from current NSU-COM students.
Let's just say I'm very glad I finished all my core rotations this week. NSU-Clearwater is going to have 150 students. To put that in perspective, the nearest site we send students to would be Largo Community Hospital, and they take about 25 Nova students each year. The email we received did not mention anything about where clinical rotations will be for Clearwater campus, but to expect more details by the end of the month. I'll share them when I get them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Largo Community Hospital, and they take about 25 Nova students each year.
Largo only takes 25? I thought Largo was one of their biggest sites! They used to also be LECOM-B's main clinical partner but I know that site isn't open to LECOM students anymore.
 
Let's just say I'm very glad I finished all my core rotations this week. NSU-Clearwater is going to have 150 students. To put that in perspective, the nearest site we send students to would be Largo Community Hospital, and they take about 25 Nova students each year. The email we received did not mention anything about where clinical rotations will be for Clearwater campus, but to expect more details by the end of the month. I'll share them when I get them.

I really don't understand what the race is here. You opened up a MD program and then you're opening up a new DO program. It's entirely nonsensical.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Maximize annual revenue and profit $$$

Then why open a MD school that will hemorrhage money? NSU is a huge school anyways, it makes plenty as is. And why do all of this expansion so far from when the school opened?
 
Top