Which schools should I apply to?

[deleted696582]

And sure, go to ivy league school, make sure you are at least 450k in debt before you graduate. But what if you don't want to specialize anymore, what if you want to specialize but you can't because of your weak performance in DS. If a pre-dent is determined to specialize, which I can't wrap my mind about because we pre dents didn't even get the chance to use a high speed handpiece yet, then he or she will specialize. It's all about the mindset.

Yes, I agree. I get that we all shadowed and saw awesome OMFS procedures, but what happens when you look at 4-6 more years of schooling after dental school hits, and say no thanks? What happens if you find a spouse in dental school that you don't want to drag through residency? I only use OMFS here because I don't think I've ever seen a pre-dent on these forums interested in prosthodontics, periodontics, etc.

So many people think they want to specialize, myself included sometimes, but many dental students have told me you should wait to get a feel for certain procedures. What if you love root canals? We've all heard of specialists who knew they were going to specialize from the day they got their dental school acceptance, but there are so many what-ifs that I don't think picking an Ivy over an inexpensive state school is a good financial decision when 100k or more is in the discussion.

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[Big Time Hoosier]

It's ridiculous how many of you think a "prestigious" name on your CV is a golden ticket to the specialty program of your choice. Seriously. If I were a moderator I'd ban anyone who keeps pushing this utter nonsense. Seriously.

You can absolutely Match out of any school! You can absolutely Match out of any school! Maybe if I say it twice it'll get into some of your heads. My lowly state school had a 100% Match rate for pedo, ortho, pros, endo, and perio and a 75% Match rate for surgery. How hard is it to realize it's the applicant that matters, not the freakin' name of their school?! Program Directors care about what YOU have done, not your school!

So, go to the cheapest school you get into. Do any of you truly comprehend the likely $200,000+ price difference between a solid state school and an Ivy? It's a literal crap ton of money! Do you know what you can do with a quarter of a million dollars?!

Great, Big Hoss is all agitated now and needs to relax and take a nap.

Big Hoss

 

[510586]

lol

On a more helpful note, Penn gives out a bunch of scholarships, especially to people with stats like yours.

They say deans scholarship is 120k total, but you have to maintain a certain GPA or certain rank within the school. In states at some places would still end up cheaper.

 

[Medin2017]

I think a big pitfall for many people on sdn is that because you did very well in undergrad and on DAT, you'll be able to specialize in any school you want.

WRONG.

Its very competitive at almost every dental school. Just because you did well in undergrad does not mean you will do


A very common pitfall on SDN is the idea that just because you did well in undergrad and got a high dat score means you can

I think most people that go to an Ivy and want to specialize are able to do so, some people simply decide they don't want to. The point is that it creates access for those who may have struggled to rank very highly in a non-Ivy program.

But expensive gamble or not, the more important point is that "you can go anywhere and specialize just as easily if you work hard enough" is sort of a widely circulated myth here. It's possible to specialize from any school, but the difficulty of actually doing so is not going to be uniform.

anywhere you want.

This is a very risky slippery slope line of thought. Dental school is much harder than undergrad and is usually much more competitive than undergrad. I know people who did very well in undergrad and on dat but are struggling to be in top 15% of their class because its so competitive. In short, dont take your chances. If you want to specialize, go to school with higgest chance of you specializing.

I disagree, there is a limit to how far hard work alone will take you in dental school. In undergrad if you put enough work in, you're guaranteed to do well. That doesn't carry over to dental school. The volume of material and overall competitiveness of your classmates makes it a lot more challenging and there's really no sure way one can specialize. IMO maximizing your chances by attending certain schools makes sense financially as well, due to the improved chances and increased income from specializing.

If only you guys were here in the UF vs Harvard thread. I was literally the only one saying this but since I am a predent I had very little influence lmao. OP listen to these people- if I could go back I would have applied to the schools they named and likely have gone. My stats are the same as yours (with a higher DAT) and I'm still pretty nervous about all the ranking business and nonmedbased curriculum.

 

[super frank]

They say deans scholarship is 120k total, but you have to maintain a certain GPA or certain rank within the school. In states at some places would still end up cheaper.

Yes, if you're actually in state for those schools lol. Or if those schools allow residency.

I was just saying Penn gives out a lot of scholarships. 5, 10, 20 and 30k per year.

 

[O Gaúcho]

Statistically you have great odds at most schools. Just work on your interview skills, as I believe that is even more important than pretty stats. But congrats on your achievements so far!

 

[Medin2017]

It's ridiculous how many of you think a "prestigious" name on your CV is a golden ticket to the specialty program of your choice. Seriously. If I were a moderator I'd ban anyone who keeps pushing this utter nonsense. Seriously.

You can absolutely Match out of any school! You can absolutely Match out of any school! Maybe if I say it twice it'll get into some of your heads. My lowly state school had a 100% Match rate for pedo, ortho, pros, endo, and perio and a 75% Match rate for surgery. How hard is it to realize it's the applicant that matters, not the freakin' name of their school?! Program Directors care about what YOU have done, not your school!

So, go to the cheapest school you get into. Do any of you truly comprehend the likely $200,000+ price difference between a solid state school and an Ivy? It's a literal crap ton of money! Do you know what you can do with a quarter of a million dollars?!

Great, Big Hoss is all agitated now and needs to relax and take a nap.

Big Hoss

Wouldn't the difference be that those "specialty schools" have way more applicants and higher matchrates? Like colombia is 18/19, penn was 12/12, etc. If I have 75% matchrate to OMFS and only 4 people applied that's not nearly as impressive.

 

[Medin2017]

As I said to @tyjacobs, I don't doubt that you two have a better idea about the rigors of dental school. But if my side argument about anyone being able to specialize is wrong, would it not follow that if pre-dents set on specializing attend Ivy League schools more on average (due to the perceived increase in chance of specializing), then Ivy League schools are then more competitive, and thus harder to specialize out of? If you put the work in to specialize at an Ivy League school, and then put that equal amount of work in to specialize at a state school, you would specialize out of the state school every time.

All of this aside, I disagree that attending certain schools due to this perceived increased chance of specializing makes sense financially. If your decision is between a private school and Ivy League school both at 500k, then yes, the Ivy is a better choice for specializing. My earlier example for OP as an Illinois resident comes into play here though. Southern Illinois would cost OP 250k at most, while Columbia or Pennsylvania would cost 500k. I would argue that a 250k difference in price is certainly not worth school name recognition or a medical curriculum.

Nope. Because p/f curriculum and ranking not being a big factor in those schools, competitive classmates =/= lowering your chances. That's why Columbia had 18/19 OMFS matches (prob a lot of peds and orthos and other specialties too) and penn had 12/12.

The bolded statement is definitely false LOL. If you put equal work in a med based curriculum, you would be so much more prepared for the CBSE than if you put in that amount of work into a dental biomedical sciences curriculum.

Finally, your last paragraph I don't agree either. If OMFS median is 390 and dental OWNERS is 180 (less now I believe and on a continual decline), within like 3-4 years you would earn it back and then start outearning. And please let's keep the discussion on medians, NOT outliers (every predent thinks they are "good businesspeople".

 

[Cali20002]

Nope. Because p/f curriculum and ranking not being a big factor in those schools, competitive classmates =/= lowering your chances. That's why Columbia had 18/19 OMFS matches (prob a lot of peds and orthos and other specialties too) and penn had 12/12.

The bolded statement is definitely false LOL. If you put equal work in a med based curriculum, you would be so much more prepared for the CBSE than if you put in that amount of work into a dental biomedical sciences curriculum.

Finally, your last paragraph I don't agree either. If OMFS median is 390 and dental OWNERS is 180 (less now I believe and on a continual decline), within like 3-4 years you would earn it back and then start outearning. And please let's keep the discussion on medians, NOT outliers (every predent thinks they are "good businesspeople".

You're losing a LOT of money in savings through added debt and loss of income. Additionally, you'll get hit harder with taxes if you have a higher income for a shorter period of time. 390 is crap for what you sacrifice, ESPECIALLY if you have $450K+ in loans.

 

[Medin2017]

You're losing a LOT of money in savings through added debt and loss of income. Additionally, you'll get hit harder with taxes if you have a higher income for a shorter period of time. 390 is crap for what you sacrifice, ESPECIALLY if you have $450K+ in loans.

Ok 200k+ over someone else is not "crap" ever lol. But still state schools are 250k+ in loans it's not free either. Even if we attach interest to it, it would take 2-3 more years to make up for it right (if we use 390 as the median pay)? Also don't forget in residency you get paid so it's not like a dentist gets 4 years of a complete head start (considering most start at 120 and residencies are 60? Someone correct me on the residency pay). Lastly, OMFS deals with saturation a lot better than general dentistry and ortho so the stability seems to be a big plus.

 

[Cali20002]

Ok 200k+ over someone else is not "crap" ever lol. But still state schools are 250k+ in loans it's not free either. Even if we attach interest to it, it would take 2-3 more years to make up for it right (if we use 390 as the median pay)? Also don't forget in residency you get paid so it's not like a dentist gets 4 years of a complete head start (considering most start at 120 and residencies are 60? Someone correct me on the residency pay). Lastly, OMFS deals with saturation a lot better than general dentistry and ortho so the stability seems to be a big plus.

It is crap considering how much debt you incur without even factoring in your practice loan. And the hours you work as an OMFS? Shoulda went MD if you were willing to pay $450K+ for a chance at making that income for those hours.

 

[Cali20002]

Meanwhile, many dentists with less debt can save $ and retire faster with a LOT of wealth.

 

[I-hate-alginate]

Okay so if i get accepted into Penn should I put the blindfold on for the next 4 years... you know, 12/12 got accepted into omfs from Penn so my chances will be super high because you know... Penn

 

[Medin2017]

It is crap considering how much debt you incur without even factoring in your practice loan. And the hours you work as an OMFS? Shoulda went MD if you were willing to pay $450K+ for a chance at making that income for those hours.

Uh not all OMFS need to buy an entire practice unlike general dentists. Working as an associate -> partnering or doing OMFS at general dentists office makes a lot too without buying an entire practice. Secondly hours? If your in T&T the hours will kill any medical specialty there is (40 or less hrs per week) unless you CHOOSE to work more. A few years ago I thought OMFS were all in hospitals past residency and it made me not wanna go into it, but the lifestyle is real good (from talking to OMFS guy anyway). To have lifestyle and pay of an OMFS you have to be a derm which is like 2x harder than getting into OMFS (being top class of med will always be different than dental).

 

[Medin2017]

Okay so if i get accepted into Penn should I put the blindfold on for the next 4 years... you know, 12/12 got accepted into omfs from Penn so my chances will be super high because you know... Penn

no just work like an average penn student who wants OMFS? Nice strawman no one ever said you didn't have to work at all. But you'll be working a hell of a lot harder if your number 15 at a state school than 11+ at penn to make up for the ranking issue.

 

[deleted696582]

Nope. Because p/f curriculum and ranking not being a big factor in those schools, competitive classmates =/= lowering your chances. That's why Columbia had 18/19 OMFS matches (prob a lot of peds and orthos and other specialties too) and penn had 12/12.

The bolded statement is definitely false LOL. If you put equal work in a med based curriculum, you would be so much more prepared for the CBSE than if you put in that amount of work into a dental biomedical sciences curriculum.

Finally, your last paragraph I don't agree either. If OMFS median is 390 and dental OWNERS is 180 (less now I believe and on a continual decline), within like 3-4 years you would earn it back and then start outearning. And please let's keep the discussion on medians, NOT outliers (every predent thinks they are "good businesspeople".

The bolded statement doesn't even mention the CBSE. I'm saying that if you study hard at an Ivy, you can study just as hard at a state school and do well. It's all about the work ethic you approach dental school with. Do you think that P/F curriculum is some breeze of a curriculum? If that's true, then P/F schools should be taken less seriously by specialty admissions. It's not though.

Once again, nobody has justified why the OP would want to pay literally 250k more for a medical curriculum and the higher specialization rates at Ivy Leagues. I have great respect for Ivy League dental schools, and they turn out great dentists, but my concerns are with finance. Hence my original comment that the OP should have their sights set on Southern Illinois.

 

[Medin2017]

Meanwhile, many dentists with less debt can save $ and retire faster with a LOT of wealth.

too bad the MEDIAN dentist who is an owner only makes 180. And like I said it's been on a steady decline while specialist income has been in an upward trend. Making 180 is less than a family practice physician. If you're talking the whole "MD vs OMFS" lets start at the minimum right? Dental school more expensive than MD, and the lowest MD makes more than a general practice dentist by median alone.

 

[Medin2017]

The bolded statement doesn't even mention the CBSE. I'm saying that if you study hard at an Ivy, you can study just as hard at a state school and do well. It's all about the work ethic you approach dental school with. Do you think that P/F curriculum is some breeze of a curriculum? If that's true, then P/F schools should be taken less seriously by specialty admissions. It's not though.

Once again, nobody has justified why the OP would want to pay literally 250k more for a medical curriculum and the higher specialization rates at Ivy Leagues. I have great respect for Ivy League dental schools, and they turn out great dentists, but my concerns are with finance. Hence my original comment that the OP should have their sights set on Southern Illinois.

Well im saying equal work does not mean equal returns. If you want OMFS and you work equally in a med based program your returns will be higher. And no I never said it was a breeze lol.

My view on finance lies with tyjacobs and feralis in that the stability and much greater income of an OMFS will make up for 200-250k+ extra costs.

 

[I-hate-alginate]

no just work like an average penn student who wants OMFS? Nice strawman no one ever said you didn't have to work at all. But you'll be working a hell of a lot harder if your number 15 at a state school than 11+ at penn to make up for the ranking issue.

If I want to do OMFS and I'm ranked 15th at my state school then I clearly don't deserve it or don't want it bad enough.

 

[Cali20002]

If I want to do OMFS and I'm ranked 15th at my state school then I clearly don't deserve it or don't want it bad enough.

If I can't do it, I didn't want it

 

[Medin2017]

If I want to do OMFS and I'm ranked 15th at my state school then I clearly don't deserve it or don't want it bad enough.

LOL ok friend. And if you wanted to do OMFS and you were 15th in your state school, you may have gotten in if you were at an ivy. That's the point feralis, wengerin, and tyjacobs, and myself have been making. And feralis and tyjacobs both had 26 and 28 DAT scores. Guess they were dumb for not going to a state school? GIve me a break- choosing something that secures your chances of getting the job you want is not stupid. Even if they could be valedictorians at their school, they still chose the safer route because why gamble on your future?

 

[Medin2017]

If I can't do it, I didn't want it

There is something called a bell curve bud. Some people work their butts off for hours on end and still can't break into top 10s. Not everything can be powered through by work ethic alone. A quick glance at the MD forum should be able to educate you on that. There are people out there working as hard as they can, continually trying to find the most efficient study methods, and still being beaten out by peers who are also giving it their all. Why not lower the risk and attend an ivy?

 

[Cali20002]

LOL ok friend. And if you wanted to do OMFS and you were 15th in your state school, you may have gotten in if you were at an ivy. That's the point feralis, wengerin, and tyjacobs, and myself have been making. And feralis and tyjacobs both had 26 and 28 DAT scores. Guess they were dumb for not going to a state school? GIve me a break- choosing something that secures your chances of getting the job you want is not stupid. Even if they could be valedictorians at their school, they still chose the safer route because why gamble on your future?

Jw, shouldn't you want to prove the ivy myth wrong since youre going instate and want to go OMFS??

 

[Cali20002]

There is something called a bell curve bud. Some people work their butts off for hours on end and still can't break into top 10s. Not everything can be powered through by work ethic alone. A quick glance at the MD forum should be able to educate you on that. There are people out there working as hard as they can, continually trying to find the most efficient study methods, and still being beaten out by peers who are also giving it their all. Why not lower the risk and attend an ivy?

Eyeroll

 

[Medin2017]

Jw, shouldn't you want to prove the ivy myth wrong since youre going instate and want to go OMFS??

Yea I should. But I'm on the side of "if you are on the fence between the 2, it would be wise to weigh the pros and cons VERY carefully". I didn't apply to the ivies because I went with the cheap route and knew my stats would get me into cheap schools, but I have some pretty damn big regrets. Not 100% sure I would have attended an ivy, since at the time of applying I wasn't as 100% on specializing, but with todays mindset I probably would have. The OMFS guy I spoke with also told me he thought I was capable and probably should be fine at the school I was attending, but I'm a very low risk person.

And with the whole "if i don't get in I didn't work hard enough", I would truly like to believe that. But there are just so many people out there who did put in 8-10 hrs a day studying and still didn't end up where they wanted. I hope I'm not one of those.

 

[deleted696582]

Well im saying equal work does not mean equal returns. If you want OMFS and you work equally in a med based program your returns will be higher. And no I never said it was a breeze lol.

My view on finance lies with tyjacobs and feralis in that the stability and much greater income of an OMFS will make up for 200-250k+ extra costs.

I know you never said it was breeze. I asked that question to make the point that a P/F curriculum is still difficult.

It comes down to this fundamental disagreement between all of us. Say Southern Illinois vs Columbia. A 250k difference, and even larger after OMFS residency. You are paying extra for a medical school curriculum that prepares you some amount better for the CBSE, as well as higher specialty rates. Not worth that difference in money to me.

 

[Medin2017]

I know you never said it was breeze. I asked that question to make the point that a P/F curriculum is still difficult.

It comes down to this fundamental disagreement between all of us. Say Southern Illinois vs Columbia. A 250k difference, and even larger after OMFS residency. You are paying extra for a medical school curriculum that prepares you some amount better for the CBSE, as well as higher specialty rates. Not worth that difference in money to me.

True. But to someone who is dead set on OMFS, it would be worth it. Let's think regrets: would you rather have gone to a cheap school, not made it, and then thought "wow if I went to an Ivy perhaps I could be in OMFS residency now" for years (since you'll likely be working 20+ years after graduation)? Or would it be worse to go to an ivy and then think "wow I coulda done it at my state school"? I think the former is much sadder.

 

[Cali20002]

Yea I should. But I'm on the side of "if you are on the fence between the 2, it would be wise to weigh the pros and cons VERY carefully". I didn't apply to the ivies because I went with the cheap route and knew my stats would get me into cheap schools, but I have some pretty damn big regrets. Not 100% sure I would have attended an ivy, since at the time of applying I wasn't as 100% on specializing, but with todays mindset I probably would have. The OMFS guy I spoke with also told me he thought I was capable and probably should be fine at the school I was attending, but I'm a very low risk person.

And with the whole "if i don't get in I didn't work hard enough", I would truly like to believe that. But there are just so many people out there who did put in 8-10 hrs a day studying and still didn't end up where they wanted. I hope I'm not one of those.

You should be more confident and positive. You've got what it takes to go OMFS

 

[Medin2017]

You should be more confident and positive. You've got what it takes to go OMFS

Yea it's probably an inferiority complex or something. No matter how well I do I always think I'm stupid, so I am entering school with pretty low confidence. OP if you are super confident, feel free to save the cash. But if your low risk like me or not very confident, go the safe route (at a cost of course).

 

[Cali20002]

Yea it's probably an inferiority complex or something. No matter how well I do I always think I'm stupid, so I am entering school with pretty low confidence. OP if you are super confident, feel free to save the cash. But if your low risk like me or not very confident, go the safe route (at a cost of course).

I was feeling similar, but then an ortho told me "I'm not the smartest, but when I was your age, I believed I could do anything". You can do it man

 

[I-hate-alginate]

Yea I should. But I'm on the side of "if you are on the fence between the 2, it would be wise to weigh the pros and cons VERY carefully". I didn't apply to the ivies because I went with the cheap

LOL ok friend. And if you wanted to do OMFS and you were 15th in your state school, you may have gotten in if you were at an ivy. That's the point feralis, wengerin, and tyjacobs, and myself have been making. And feralis and tyjacobs both had 26 and 28 DAT scores. Guess they were dumb for not going to a state school? GIve me a break- choosing something that secures your chances of getting the job you want is not stupid. Even if they could be valedictorians at their school, they still chose the safer route because why gamble on your future?

Safer route? Well if I'm here yapping about myself wanting to do OMFS, I better be ready to put in the work. I better be ready to give more than most of the students in my class who also want it. If you're smart enough to get accepted into omfs residency and you attended a state school. Well done! , not only you made it from a state school which people think is impossible but you also made it with 200k more in your pocket.

 

[Medin2017]

I was feeling similar, but then an ortho told me "I'm not the smartest, but when I was your age, I believed I could do anything". You can do it man

thanks for the positive vibes.

 

[Medin2017]

"Safer route? Well if I'm here yapping about myself wanting to do OMFS, I better be ready to put in the work. I better be ready to give more than most of the students in my class who also want it. If you're smart enough to get accepted into omfs residency and you attended a state school. Well done! , not only you made it from a state school which people think is impossible but you also made it with 200k more in your pocket."

I'm ready to put in work. I'll very likely have a crappy work-life balance, and I'll be working every hour I can. Just saying not everyone who works more than others achieves higher. It's a sad fact of life. And yea I'll update this post in the future if I make it and if I don't there will be some very sad posts by me when i bump this LOL

 

[super frank]

You're losing a LOT of money in savings through added debt and loss of income. Additionally, you'll get hit harder with taxes if you have a higher income for a shorter period of time. 390 is crap for what you sacrifice, ESPECIALLY if you have $450K+ in loans.

Normally I respect your posts, but you're seriously saying 390k/year is crap? You have to be joking. You really think making 390k+ for 25 years is not worth an extra 100k in loans? My parents combined make 10% of that yearly salary, lol.

It is crap considering how much debt you incur without even factoring in your practice loan. And the hours you work as an OMFS? Shoulda went MD if you were willing to pay $450K+ for a chance at making that income for those hours.

You're joking right? As an OMFS you can potentially have the lifestyle of a busier dentist (post residency obviously, private practice) and the income of competitive MD specialties.

 

[Cali20002]

Normally I respect your posts, but you're seriously saying 390k/year is crap? You have to be joking. You really think making 390k+ for 25 years is not worth an extra 100k in loans? My parents combined make 10% of that yearly salary, lol.


You're joking right? As an OMFS you can potentially have the lifestyle of a dentist (post residency obviously, private practice) and the income of competitive MD specialties.

Nope dead serious.

 

[Medin2017]

Normally I respect your posts, but you're seriously saying 390k/year is crap? You have to be joking. You really think making 390k+ for 25 years is not worth an extra 100k in loans? My parents combined make 10% of that yearly salary, lol.


You're joking right? As an OMFS you can potentially have the lifestyle of a busier dentist (post residency obviously, private practice) and the income of competitive MD specialties.

yea the oms guy i spoke to said OMFS beats out plastics and ENT hourly because T&T procedures are just so much faster. They all work together in residencies though. Not to mention there's an old post somewhere on here comparing hourly rates of MD to dental + dental specialties and usually dental was lookin nice. It's quite old though.

 

[I-hate-alginate]

"Safer route? Well if I'm here yapping about myself wanting to do OMFS, I better be ready to put in the work. I better be ready to give more than most of the students in my class who also want it. If you're smart enough to get accepted into omfs residency and you attended a state school. Well done! , not only you made it from a state school which people think is impossible but you also made it with 200k more in your pocket."

I'm ready to put in work. I'll very likely have a crappy work-life balance, and I'll be working every hour I can. Just saying not everyone who works more than others achieves higher. It's a sad fact of life. And yea I'll update this post in the future if I make it and if I don't there will be some very sad posts by me when i bump this LOL

Okay, why dont apply to ivy league schools in this upcoming cycle since you sound like you aren't that interested in putting the work in your state school

"Safer route? Well if I'm here yapping about myself wanting to do OMFS, I better be ready to put in the work. I better be ready to give more than most of the students in my class who also want it. If you're smart enough to get accepted into omfs residency and you attended a state school. Well done! , not only you made it from a state school which people think is impossible but you also made it with 200k more in your pocket."

I'm ready to put in work. I'll very likely have a crappy work-life balance, and I'll be working every hour I can. Just saying not everyone who works more than others achieves higher. It's a sad fact of life. And yea I'll update this post in the future if I make it and if I don't there will be some very sad posts by me when i bump this LOL

No one is forcing you to not go to any ivy league school. June 1st is right around the corner. If you think going to an ivy league school is the only route for becoming an omfs and you want to be an omfs, then be sure to submit your application as early as you can.

 

[I-hate-alginate]

If you have the mindset, you can go to a dental school that is located on the moon and still get accepted into the residency program you want. Only if you have the mindset.

 

[Medin2017]

Okay, why dont apply to ivy league schools in this upcoming cycle since you sound like you aren't that interested in putting the work in your state school

No one is forcing you to not go to any ivy league school. June 1st is right around the corner. If you think going to an ivy league school is the only route for becoming an omfs and you want to be an omfs, then be sure to submit your application as early as you can.

literally just said I would be working all the time lol. If you don't bother to read my posts feel free to not reply. And bolded is a good example of a strawman. Never said you can't just said ivy is a safer way of doing so.

 

[I-hate-alginate]

literally just said I would be working all the time lol. If you don't bother to read my posts feel free to not reply. And bolded is a good example of a strawman. Never said you can't just said ivy is a safer way of doing so.

literally just said I would be working all the time lol. If you don't bother to read my posts feel free to not reply. And bolded is a good example of a strawman. Never said you can't just said ivy is a safer way of doing so.

That's great! Then do what you got to do to get in the program you want. But if you miss out on it, then oh well. Someone didn't act like they wanted it.

 

[Medin2017]

If you have the mindset, you can go to a dental school that is located on the moon and still get accepted into the residency program you want. Only if you have the mindset.

Implying feralis and tyjacobs didn't have the mindset to specialize that's why they didn't choose a cheaper route. Sometimes you can have the mindset AND choose a "safer" option.

You probably won't, but I highly recommend you browse MD forums of SDN. Good study tips but also some good reality checks. Plenty of people have the "mindset" to score 240+ on the step 1 or to be top quarter, studying literally hours on end, using all the study habits upperclassmen recommend, and going to their schools study center or posting on SDN for more tips. Yet many still fail to achieve the goals they wanted. It's pretty rude to assume everyone who didn't achieve their goal didn't have the mindset to do so. Not everyone is going to be the top of every bell curve they see just because they "BELIEVE".

In all likelihood, being a decently ranked person in dental school is possible and by stats alone, having a 24-25 already puts you around the top 5% of accepted students. Likewise, many people choose not to specialize, so it won't be the same competition as medicine where almost everyone wants to match something. However, ivies are safer no doubt about it. For many they are not worth the cost, so choose wisely OP

 

[Medin2017]

That's great! Then do what you got to do to get in the program you want. But if you miss out on it, then oh well. Someone didn't act like they wanted it.

If I miss out, it just meant I wasn't intelligent enough. It's very possible to give it all you got and still fail. Idk if you believe that or not.

 

[wengerout]

Disagree. Pretty sure the only reason I got into Penn was because I told them I was set on omfs. In my supplemental and again in my interview. And that was with the dean of admissions.

Columbia was the only school where I felt comfortable to talk about me wanting to specialize, because that's something they have a clear interest in. Saying you are only interested in specializing at a GP heavy school is not wise.


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[wengerout]

It is crap considering how much debt you incur without even factoring in your practice loan. And the hours you work as an OMFS? Shoulda went MD if you were willing to pay $450K+ for a chance at making that income for those hours.

OMFS have good hours unless you choose to work in the hospital...


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[SwaggyPedro]

OP, you sound eerily like me from a couple years ago. Same stats, same region of the country, same career aspirations, same questions. I turned down an acceptance at Columbia and a scholarship at Penn for a better scholarship at an OOS state school. I will graduate with less than $180k in debt and my current grades will probably make me pretty competitive for specializing. If you're smart, dedicated, and confident, go to a cheap state school, put in the work, and bask in the financial freedom of not having an extra $250k+ in loans accruing interest through a long residency. And if you decide not to pursue OMFS along the way (which is a very real possibility), you get a great clinical education and can buy yourself a couple ferraris with the money you didn't spend on going to an Ivy because you "knew" you wanted to do OMFS as a pre-dent.

There's a lot of bad advice on these boards, feel free to DM me if you want to chat some more.

 

[wengerout]

The bolded statement doesn't even mention the CBSE. I'm saying that if you study hard at an Ivy, you can study just as hard at a state school and do well. It's all about the work ethic you approach dental school with. Do you think that P/F curriculum is some breeze of a curriculum? If that's true, then P/F schools should be taken less seriously by specialty admissions. It's not though.

Once again, nobody has justified why the OP would want to pay literally 250k more for a medical curriculum and the higher specialization rates at Ivy Leagues. I have great respect for Ivy League dental schools, and they turn out great dentists, but my concerns are with finance. Hence my original comment that the OP should have their sights set on Southern Illinois.

I don't think it's a matter of P/F schools being easier than the grades schools, it's the fact that most of the Ivy's are purposely designed with specializing in mind, while a good majority of state schools are designed to produce GP's.

Some state schools are more catered to producing specialist as well. UCONN and UCLA are the first examples that pop off the top of my head.

It's up to OP to determine the opportunity cost of each school and his chances of specializing. Some people have 100% faith they can specialize anywhere. Others like to give themselves the biggest advantage possible even if it comes at increased cost. It's simply a matter of choice.

(P.S. I will say though, I find it entertaining how often I read "If you work hard you can specialize!", when in reality all these people trying to specialize are competing against each other. No one is saying the ability to specialize comes down to the name of your institution, but some schools create more "friendly" environments for the pursuit than others.)


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[Medin2017]

OP, you sound eerily like me from a couple years ago. Same stats, same region of the country, same career aspirations, same questions. I turned down an acceptance at Columbia and a scholarship at Penn for a better scholarship at an OOS state school. I will graduate with less than $180k in debt and my current grades will probably make me pretty competitive for specializing. If you're smart, dedicated, and confident, go to a cheap state school, put in the work, and bask in the financial freedom of not having an extra $250k+ in loans accruing interest through a long residency. And if you decide not to pursue OMFS along the way (which is a very real possibility), you get a great clinical education and can buy yourself a couple ferraris with the money you didn't spend on going to an Ivy because you "knew" you wanted to do OMFS as a pre-dent.

There's a lot of bad advice on these boards, feel free to DM me if you want to chat some more.

The advice is subjective quite frankly. If you make it from a state school then yea it's bad advice to go ivy (waste 200k). If you may fail from a state school then going to an ivy is some damn good advice. And you never know which side you will be on until you come out. You don't know if you're smart until you're tested by the rigors of d school. But I really hope DAT and undergrad GPA are decent indicators.

 

[I-hate-alginate]

The advice is subjective quite frankly. If you make it from a state school then yea it's bad advice to go ivy (waste 200k). If you may fail from a state school then going to an ivy is some damn good advice. And you never know which side you will be on until you come out. You don't know if you're smart until you're tested by the rigors of d school. But I really hope DAT and undergrad GPA are decent indicators.

If you think that, then OP can clearly go to a state school and still make it into an omfs program... safe route? With those stats.... ehh I'll take the 200k less route and bet on myself

 

[Medin2017]

I don't think it's a matter of P/F schools being easier than the grades schools, it's the fact that most of the Ivy's are purposely designed with specializing in mind, while a good majority of state schools are designed to produce GP's.

Some state schools are more catered to producing specialist as well. UCONN and UCLA are the first examples that pop off the top of my head.

It's up to OP to determine the opportunity cost of each school and his chances of specializing. Some people have 100% faith they can specialize anywhere. Others like to give themselves the biggest advantage possible even if it comes at increased cost. It's simply a matter of choice.

(P.S. I will say though, I find it entertaining how often I read "If you work hard you can specialize!", when in reality all these people trying to specialize are competing against each other. No one is saying the ability to specialize comes down to the name of your institution, but some schools create more "friendly" environments for the pursuit than others.)


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yea people are making this a "if you can't ivy from anywhere you didn't want it XDDD" or a "bro don't waste 200k if you work hard you can do well anywhere you go". A "friendly" environment for pursuing the job you will have for the next 50 years is a big deal. A very big deal if you're on the cusp (someone who may not make it in a state but make it in an ivy).

We will never know which we'll be, but OP ask yourself which regret hurts more: saving 200k and not making it to a specialty or wasting 200k when you were smart enough to specialize at both schools. Really all it comes down to.

 

[Cali20002]

The advice is subjective quite frankly. If you make it from a state school then yea it's bad advice to go ivy (waste 200k). If you may fail from a state school then going to an ivy is some damn good advice. And you never know which side you will be on until you come out. You don't know if you're smart until you're tested by the rigors of d school. But I really hope DAT and undergrad GPA are decent indicators.

High UG stats show you are smart enough and capable. The question is, will you have that same successful mindset in dental school?