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Is there a lot of competition for setting up audition rotations? I wouldn't be aiming top-tier anyway, since I'm a DO.
First come, first served
Is there a lot of competition for setting up audition rotations? I wouldn't be aiming top-tier anyway, since I'm a DO.
One of my classmates rotated there and absolutely loved it. I think she liked Fresno significantly better than the two other CA programs she rotated at.
I also heard great things from my classmates who rotated at Fresno and I really liked it on their interview day. Only major downsides were location and length of program, IMO.
Personally speaking another one was that you're not allowed to see high acuity patients till 2nd half of R2 year.
(Unless they changed things recently).
Read the thread. There are literally 50+ reviews already answering that question.In light of some recent advice from individuals who did not match, could some people post where they had a *safe* rotation? (i.e. places that are known for providing good SLOEs)
Read the thread. There are literally 50+ reviews already answering that question.
First off, thanks for all your work on this this thread. It has been immensely helpful. I have read and re-read the comments in this thread many times, but after your comment, I went through the entire thing one more time just to be sure. I counted exactly 10 reviews of places that mention anything about the SLOE. The vast majority of the reviews just have "Yes" next to the SLOE Provided prompt, and then make no mention of whether it was good, bad, detrimental to interview invites, etc--so I wouldn't count these as answering my question.
I still feel it is a fair question. It would be very helpful to have more examples of specifically which programs in the past have provided SLOEs that may have hurt candidates, or which programs tend to be safer. Again, thanks to everyone who has contributed to this forum.
Does anyone know if the google forms link to write a review still works? Was thinking of writing reviews on my aways from this season.
This and LORs have been a limiting factors in my search for aways. UNC especially since it's close to family. Duke OTOH will be hearing from me.I'd like to give a special thumbs down to programs that make you write a statement of interest as part of their rotation application. What a waste of time just to get rejected for a rotation. I'm looking at you, UNC.
I would strongly encourage you to talk to your upperclassmen and read this entire thread when you're picking a place to audition at. You want to rotate at programs that give you written feedback after every shift. Your senior resident or attending should sit down with you, write out your feedback on whatever form they use, and show it to you and go over it with you. That way you have a much lower change of getting blindsided by a bad SLOE after being told you were doing a great job all month.
In light of some recent advice from individuals who did not match, could some people post where they had a *safe* rotation? (i.e. places that are known for providing good SLOEs)
Realize that these reviews are being submitted by a fraction of all the students rotating at any given program. As such, the information on this thread is prone to significant selection bias (e.g., people who had a horrendous or outstanding experience are more likely to speak up than those who had the average experience you get out of rotating at a certain program). So, don’t let a single negative review of a program dissuade you from rotating there, as it might be an isolated case. One would need multiple negative reviews of that rotation site before you could conclusively say that it's best to avoid it.
As people have commented here and elsewhere: the best way to guarantee a strong SLOE is by working hard, being motivated/eager to learn, and asking for timely, frequent feedback. NOT by obsessing over these reviews or requesting for the reviews to include more specifics about SLOEs
Avoid. Austin.
Probably the only place that I can personally say is worth avoiding.
Anyone care to comment on UT Austin Dell, UMKC (Kansas City), or UNMC (Nebraska)
Was Austin Dell that bad of an experience and is their feedback based on a generic email. I would love to live in Austin and Brackenridge seems like a great place to train, but honestly I'm a bit turned off after all of these negative reviews. Did anyone have a positive experience there?
+1 to avoiding Austin. I heard from two upperclassmen that they got great feedback on their auditions (including one that the PD told "see you this fall!") then were rejected during interview season. You can only hurt your chances at that program by auditioning there.
Also, I see that you're a DO student (me too). The UT Austin system is cultivating an anti-DO bias, thanks to their new dean. You see, they don't want DOs at their residency programs because it tarnishes their (brand-new and unproven) reputation...
+1 to avoiding Austin. I heard from two upperclassmen that they got great feedback on their auditions (including one that the PD told "see you this fall!") then were rejected during interview season. You can only hurt your chances at that program by auditioning there.
Also, I see that you're a DO student (me too). The UT Austin system is cultivating an anti-DO bias, thanks to their new dean. You see, they don't want DOs at their residency programs because it tarnishes their (brand-new and unproven) reputation...
While I don't disagree with any of your sentiments regarding UT Austin's approach to aways/interviews/SLOE's, a look at their website shows that the class of 2018 has 4 DO's in it. I don't think we can necessarily comment that they have any anti-DO sentiments, particularly in light of this.
While I don't disagree with any of your sentiments regarding UT Austin's approach to aways/interviews/SLOE's, a look at their website shows that the class of 2018 has 4 DO's in it. I don't think we can necessarily comment that they have any anti-DO sentiments, particularly in light of this.
The class of 2018 interviewed prior to the hiring of the new dean and opening of the new med school. Your point of view would have been closer to reality if we were still in 2014.
All in all I'm finding the interest in this low tier, new program a bit unfortunate. But "location, location, location..."
No difference from 14 years ago, except it was just an LOR, not an SLOE. I had to ask and ask and ask, and it was the weakest, suckiest "good" letter I've ever seen. It was something like, in the letter writer's experience, he didn't directly see me harm a patient - it was THAT bad.Posted anonymously via Google Forms
Program: Newark Beth Israel
Rotation: EM Sub-Internship
SLOE Experience: Sent SLOE Considerably Late
Comments: I didn't see too many "avoid this place like a plague" postings so I'll contribute. I rotated at this place and it was the biggest mistake of my application process.
First of all, the ratio of students to preceptor was out of wack. The student coordinator in charge of accepting students for away rotation was apparently out of office for a long time, so they accepted everyone who requested the rotation. This left the hospital with way more students than they could handle. For every shift, I had at least 2-3 other students in the same ED pod. This created a sense of competition among the students because they paired 2-3 students to 1 resident. You are already stressed enough because you are auditioning...last thing you want is other students gunning against you. When you rotate at other hospitals, you'll notice that they pair you up 1:1 with attending physicians. This is how you will be evaluated properly, not when you are with other students following the same resident around. Don't get me wrong...most residents were nice people. They also seemed very competent at what they were doing. But the residents were often frustrated because they had to take care of 2-3 med students. I don't blame them because I would be annoyed too if I was in their shoes. Oh, and don't expect to work with the attending physicians too much. There are 2-3 attendings at most who genuinely care about the student's experience... the remaining attendings don't give a flying crap.
Second issue also goes hand in hand with the first. Because there were too many students, it took a LONG time for the PD to write SLOE. Personally, it took them almost 4 months to upload my SLOE. I was literally like WTH?? when they uploaded the letter towards the end of the interview season. You'd be thinking how all this mess can happen in one rotation site, but it ain't over yet. I'm not sure if other schools have a separate evaluation form (not SLOE, but required for every rotation by school) to be submitted...but beware if you do need one. They NEVER submitted my form to school and I was in danger of failing the entire rotation. I wish I can say that I was the only victim, but I know at least 5 other students who's had SLOE and evaluation issues. I'm sure other students who rotated here will at least partially agree with what I said.
I understand that the hospital is doing med students a favor when they allow students to rotate and provide SLOE. But stating that they will, and not abiding by that statement is basically making false promise. For them, we might be "just another med student," but for med students each audition rotation is a big deal that can make or break your future career. I just hope that Newark Beth Israel can think about this one more time before actually ruining anyone's lives.
Posted anonymously via Google Forms
Program: Newark Beth Israel
Rotation: EM Sub-Internship
SLOE Experience: Sent SLOE Considerably Late
Comments: I didn't see too many "avoid this place like a plague" postings so I'll contribute. I rotated at this place and it was the biggest mistake of my application process.
First of all, the ratio of students to preceptor was out of wack. The student coordinator in charge of accepting students for away rotation was apparently out of office for a long time, so they accepted everyone who requested the rotation. This left the hospital with way more students than they could handle. For every shift, I had at least 2-3 other students in the same ED pod. This created a sense of competition among the students because they paired 2-3 students to 1 resident. You are already stressed enough because you are auditioning...last thing you want is other students gunning against you. When you rotate at other hospitals, you'll notice that they pair you up 1:1 with attending physicians. This is how you will be evaluated properly, not when you are with other students following the same resident around. Don't get me wrong...most residents were nice people. They also seemed very competent at what they were doing. But the residents were often frustrated because they had to take care of 2-3 med students. I don't blame them because I would be annoyed too if I was in their shoes. Oh, and don't expect to work with the attending physicians too much. There are 2-3 attendings at most who genuinely care about the student's experience... the remaining attendings don't give a flying crap.
Second issue also goes hand in hand with the first. Because there were too many students, it took a LONG time for the PD to write SLOE. Personally, it took them almost 4 months to upload my SLOE. I was literally like WTH?? when they uploaded the letter towards the end of the interview season. You'd be thinking how all this mess can happen in one rotation site, but it ain't over yet. I'm not sure if other schools have a separate evaluation form (not SLOE, but required for every rotation by school) to be submitted...but beware if you do need one. They NEVER submitted my form to school and I was in danger of failing the entire rotation. I wish I can say that I was the only victim, but I know at least 5 other students who's had SLOE and evaluation issues. I'm sure other students who rotated here will at least partially agree with what I said.
I understand that the hospital is doing med students a favor when they allow students to rotate and provide SLOE. But stating that they will, and not abiding by that statement is basically making false promise. For them, we might be "just another med student," but for med students each audition rotation is a big deal that can make or break your future career. I just hope that Newark Beth Israel can think about this one more time before actually ruining anyone's lives.
I disagree. I went on an audition rotation at the request of the PD, whom I met at ACEP. I hadn't even considered the program. I went, and did well, according to the PD and quite a few of the other attendings. The aPD that wrote the SLOE, however, thought otherwise, but didn't bother to tell me. And even wrote completely untrue statements about me skipping days of work and the like. I put it as part of my application. Went on 11 interviews. Ranked 11 programs.Not trying to belittle a program not fulfilling the obligations, but to say that an audition rotation can make or break your career is a bit dramatic. Try to keep things in perspective.
Not trying to belittle a program not fulfilling the obligations, but to say that an audition rotation can make or break your career is a bit dramatic. Try to keep things in perspective.
I disagree. I went on an audition rotation at the request of the PD, whom I met at ACEP. I hadn't even considered the program. I went, and did well, according to the PD and quite a few of the other attendings. The aPD that wrote the SLOE, however, thought otherwise, but didn't bother to tell me. And even wrote completely untrue statements about me skipping days of work and the like. I put it as part of my application. Went on 11 interviews. Ranked 11 programs.
I didn't match. My "virtual advisor" didn't tell me about the hand grenade of a SLOE. Nobody at my school would even go so far as to say "use or don't use this". Only a chief resident at another away rotation that I had befriended was willing to let me know what was in it. So the second time around, I didn't use it. Interviewed at 13 that time. Matched #1. If that letter had been there, I probably wouldn't have matched the second time around. There weren't any scramble programs the first year, and not many the second year. So, no, it's not too dramatic.