What's the deal with Phoenix, AZ Anesthesia Groups??

[Khalid]

Hey all, I thought I'd throw this out there and see if any of you private practice folks have any insight for me:

Maybe I should start with what I'm looking for--a democratic group with a 1-2 yr. partnership track with shared call, paid malpractice, 5-8 wks vacation, retirement, insurance, etc...(this is roughly what I'm finding everywhere else in the US)

However, having spoken to several "groups" in and around Phoenix, they all seem to be very Fee-for-Service oriented--300k-350k, no guranteed contracts with hospitals, no malpractice, no insurance, limited or no paid vacation, no retirement. The "groups" appear to be more confederations of convenience more than egalitarian groups.

I know alot of you on the board like this "eat what you kill", mercenary mentality, but does anyone know why there are no "traditional" groups in the Valley of the Sun like I seem to find everywhere else in the country???

Do they exist or am I just not looking in the right places???

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[johankriek]

Hey all, I thought I'd throw this out there and see if any of you private practice folks have any insight for me:

Maybe I should start with what I'm looking for--a democratic group with a 1-2 yr. partnership track with shared call, paid malpractice, 5-8 wks vacation, retirement, insurance, etc...(this is roughly what I'm finding everywhere else in the US)

However, having spoken to several "groups" in and around Phoenix, they all seem to be very Fee-for-Service oriented--300k-350k, no guranteed contracts with hospitals, no malpractice, no insurance, limited or no paid vacation, no retirement. The "groups" appear to be more confederations of convenience more than egalitarian groups.

I know alot of you on the board like this "eat what you kill", mercenary mentality, but does anyone know why there are no "traditional" groups in the Valley of the Sun like I seem to find everywhere else in the country???

Do they exist or am I just not looking in the right places???

why would you want it anything other than the eat what you kill model ? Why would you want to get paid if you didnt work? why would you want to take money from someone else.. Why would you want to go on vacation and still get paid? eat what you kill is where its at..... you dont owe anyone anything and nobody owes you anything. egalitarian groups are not egalitarian.. invariably you have 20 percent of people doing 90 percent of the work ... go ahead and join one of them and see how it is.. when you have a contract with the hospital.. they can get rid of you faster.. if you are on staff.. its very difficult to get rid of me.. unless i did something real stupid.. like sexual harassment.etc.etc.

 

[Khalid]

Hey, I'm new at this so take it easy on me...

why would you want it anything other than the eat what you kill model ?

I realize location is everything, but the midwest and southern groups I've dealt with all seem to be built on the traditional model I was referring to. With no paid health insurance, malpractice, retirement contribution, or vacation, and the expense of hiring a billing company, that 350-400k in Phoenix suddenly looks alot more like 220k.

I currently work for one of the "egallitatrian" groups I described in a large midwest city (I need to get back to Phoenix for family reasons), and though it has a two year partnership track (no buy-in), all the work is shared equally--I just make 30% less the first two years. However, with paid malpractice, insurance benefits, 42k retirement, 6 wks vacation, its a heckuva lot better than 300k in Phoenix with all those expenses it would seem to me. By no means are "20% of the people doing 90% of the work."

However, maybe I'm missing something, and thats why I threw it to the board...

 

[militarymd]

Look in Tucson....Awesome group....good partners...bunch of guys who work well together....They weed out loners who aren't able to work in a team environment.

 

[Conflicted]

I have a very good friend who works for Valley Anesthesia in the Phoenix area. She actually really loves it and has no complaints.

Maybe it would be helpful to talk directly to one of them?
http://www.anesthesia.net/

 

[Noyac]

With no paid health insurance, malpractice, retirement contribution, or vacation, and the expense of hiring a billing company, that 350-400k in Phoenix suddenly looks alot more like 220k.

It is alot like 220K.

 

[Sevo]

Khalid, check your PM.

 

[militarymd]

Valley is the primo group in the Phoenix area. Very, very selective unless you've done a peds fellowship. Other groups to consider include Metro Anesthesia, Arizona Anesthesia Consultants out of Arrowhead Hospital, and the group out of Chandler Regional Hospital. You'll probably need to have some sort of "in" to get into any of those three.

If you're willing to consider Tucson, I'd only consider Old Pueblo Anesthesia out of Tucson Medical Center .

why is that?

 

[Stimulate]

I have a very good friend who works for Valley Anesthesia in the Phoenix area. She actually really loves it and has no complaints.

Maybe it would be helpful to talk directly to one of them?
http://www.anesthesia.net/

Is that friend of yours a CRNA "conflicted"? I was under the impression that Valley Anesthesia does not hire CRNAs (despite their being "the same in the OR environment" as MDs)?

 

[dogbone65]

Is that friend of yours a CRNA "conflicted"? I was under the impression that Valley Anesthesia does not hire CRNAs (despite their being "the same in the OR environment" as MDs)?

I hate to break the news to you, but doctors can be friends with people that are not md's and vice versa. Perhaps if you expand your "peer group" you might like it. Life is so much more.

 

[Conflicted]

Hey

Yup thats correct. Valley does not hire CRNAs. Hospitals do.

I have many friends at valley that i see on a regular basis outside of work. Good people as far as i can tell.

Is that friend of yours a CRNA "conflicted"? I was under the impression that Valley Anesthesia does not hire CRNAs (despite their being "the same in the OR environment" as MDs)?

 

[salmonella]

Hey

Yup thats correct. Valley does not hire CRNAs. Hospitals do.

I have many friends at valley that i see on a regular basis outside of work. Good people as far as i can tell.

If anesthesiologists really want to exert control over CRNAs, perhaps private anesthesiology groups should hire the CRNAs themselves, as opposed to hospitals hiring them. What if hospitals keep hiring more and more CRNAs and eventually cancel contract with the anesthesiology group?

 

[militarymd]

If anesthesiologists really want to exert control over CRNAs, perhaps private anesthesiology groups should hire the CRNAs themselves, as opposed to hospitals hiring them. What if hospitals keep hiring more and more CRNAs and eventually cancel contract with the anesthesiology group?

give me a break....the sky fell yesterday.

 

[mille125]

Hey, I'm new at this so take it easy on me...

why would you want it anything other than the eat what you kill model ?

I realize location is everything, but the midwest and southern groups I've dealt with all seem to be built on the traditional model I was referring to. With no paid health insurance, malpractice, retirement contribution, or vacation, and the expense of hiring a billing company, that 350-400k in Phoenix suddenly looks alot more like 220k.

I currently work for one of the "egallitatrian" groups I described in a large midwest city (I need to get back to Phoenix for family reasons), and though it has a two year partnership track (no buy-in), all the work is shared equally--I just make 30% less the first two years. However, with paid malpractice, insurance benefits, 42k retirement, 6 wks vacation, its a heckuva lot better than 300k in Phoenix with all those expenses it would seem to me. By no means are "20% of the people doing 90% of the work."

However, maybe I'm missing something, and thats why I threw it to the board...

an "eat what you kill model" is good for the group and not good for you. you are correct in your assessment. a 350K salary minus all benefits will be equivalent to about 200K. if I were you I would talk to some hospitals directly and make your own practice...it has worked well for me and you are your own boss

 

[Stimulate]

I hate to break the news to you, but doctors can be friends with people that are not md's and vice versa. Perhaps if you expand your "peer group" you might like it. Life is so much more.

You missed the point I was trying to make..."conflicted" posts very pro-CRNA comments in other threads (CRNAs are equal to MDs in the operating room, etc.). The purpose of my earlier post was just to clarify that in a competitive market like Phoenix, CRNAs are not always hired by groups (many groups are MD only). I have spoken with numerous SRNAs who say the job market in phoenix is not that great for them because of MD only groups. Mayo is one of the few places that hires them and one of my friends interviewed there and did not like what they had to offer.

By the way, thank you so much "dogbone65" for pointing out that I can improve my quality of life by expanding my peer group. You have truly changed my life for the better.

 

[Conflicted]

Hey Stim

Here are the hospitals that hre CRNAs to full scope of practice in phx if your friend is still looking.

Boswell Hospital
Del Webb Hospital
Maricopa county
Mayo hospital

Other than that they work in varying capacities at the other hospitals.

You are very correct, phx metro area isnt the greatest place for CRNAs bt thats begun to change as of last year (particularily with the new program thats here).

In anycase, im pro-crna like your pro-anesthesiologist. I have never had a problem working with any physicians including anesthesiologists. Boards like this tend to attract the minority of "activists" and ive just been foolish enough to respond.

Good luck in your career, there is more than enough room/jobs for CRNAs and anesthesiologists in the anesthesia world.

 

[Khalid]

As an MDA, I can vouch for Conflicted's authenticity (as if Conflicted really needs it). Conflicted has PM'd me with helpful information re: groups in the PHX area and clearly has no axe to grind with Anesthesiologiststs.

Trust me, Conflicted is NOT the problem...

 

[sangyo76]

Conflicted,

i'm still a resident and looking in the PHX area. was wondering if u could PM me with some places that are friendly and need to hire an MDA in the near furure.
Thanks!

 

[johnlocksmith]

hope you have got the answer till now as i was looking for the same

 

[badapplestix]

Bump...Anyone have information about groups in the greater Phoenix area? Thanks

 

[deleted162650]

There's a good play hard/work hard old school eat what you kill practice in Chandler. Valley is now AMC. There are some other small groups around town, but I personally don't know much about them.

 

[Notorious T.E.E.]

There's a good play hard/work hard old school eat what you kill practice in Chandler.

I know a guy in this practice. He seems happy. He does work a lot, residency hours type of thing, but he has a good amount of time off too. I think he can take a week each month if he chooses, and gets even more at partner. It sounds like a decent job, but it does have some quirks.

 

[Iso4ane]

There's a good play hard/work hard old school eat what you kill practice in Chandler. Valley is now AMC. There are some other small groups around town, but I personally don't know much about them.

Do you know anything about the groups based in Tucson?

 

[deleted162650]

Do you know anything about the groups based in Tucson?

Nope