What is the Pharmacy Profession like right now..? Saturation wise and salary wise.

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Intel1122

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Hi all.. I am just curious. To me Pharmacy seems to be the profession where most people go into for a secure profession/recession proof, easy 6 figure salary, not having to detail with blood/patients/dirty stuff, get to use their vast knowledge of pharmacotherapeutics, etc.

But I have been reading a lot about a "saturation" problem. I mean is that true...? I have been messaging people and asking around and I have been getting mixed reviews.

It seems there are jobs... especially retail that boast 110-130k salaries, but its just you have to work really hard to get those jobs....

Right now I am an RN that is planning to become an NP. I know NPs start at 95-110k where I live and that they will always have a secure future with the lack of PCPs and the NP profession is tied to the Physician profession.

Right now I was thinking about becoming a pharmacist to get the benefits over an NP.

Maybe I am too negative about my own profession, but is it worth it to become a pharmacist now.?

I mean right now I would be an NP in 2 years but is not pharmacy good..? Just curious.

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I'm not even going to address the saturation/salary question. A simple thought exercise is all that is needed. If you just graduated with a science degree and a 3.0 gpa and your job prospects are dim what would you do if you could just walk into pharmacy school? Now imagine how many of those people are out there these days and how few options they have in this economy. Has open enrollment done the nursing profession well? It's already here in pharmacy and will only get worse.
 
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I'm not even going to address the saturation/salary question. A simple thought exercise is all that is needed. If you just graduated with a science degree and a 3.0 gpa and your job prospects are dim what would you do if you could just walk into pharmacy school? Now imagine how many of those people are out there these days and how few options they have in this economy. Has open enrollment done the nursing profession well? It's already here in pharmacy and will only get worse.
Hold on hold on lol. My science gpa is a 3.5(becoming a 3.8 soon) and my overall is a 3.4.. so hold on I hope you don't imply I have a 3.0 gpa.

I am becoming a Family NP btw.

I am not sure what exactly you just said lol. But I assume you are saying the easy enrollment is butchering the pharmacy profession.. Is what what you are saying.. Just curious.
 
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I'm in my last year of pharmacy school. I believe it is a bad idea to go into the career if you're looking for something "secure" and pays 6 figures. A good recommendation is to work as a tech or volunteer in a pharmacy to see if you truly like it and be honest with yourself. The field is pretty saturated in most areas. I applied for jobs in San Diego and Los Angeles for fun in a company I've been an intern pharmacist in for 3 years, and was "no longer under consideration" just 2 days after applying.

However, if you're really passionate about pharmacy and are willing to re-locate to less desirable areas, you'll be able to find something.
 
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I'm in my last year of pharmacy school. I believe it is a bad idea to go into the career if you're looking for something "secure" and pays 6 figures. A good recommendation is to work as a tech or volunteer in a pharmacy to see if you truly like it and be honest with yourself. The field is pretty saturated in most areas. I applied for jobs in San Diego and Los Angeles for fun in a company I've been an intern pharmacist in for 3 years, and was "no longer under consideration" just 2 days after applying.

However, if you're really passionate about pharmacy and are willing to re-locate to less desirable areas, you'll be able to find something.
Well let me express myself. I want a secure profession. Medicine, NP, PA... Dentistry. All those are secure. Pharmacy is not secure? Honestly IMHO that is what happens when you lack interaction with patients and do not "pay your dues" by being around direct contact with patients. I bet you that if pharmacists were more in the mainstream of the hospital environment they would be treated with more respect. They are viewed as expendable labor and not valued, because their professions are controlled mainly by chains and big business. Right hospitals and clinics are business too, don't get me wrong, but there is still a culture that respects doctors, nurses, allied health professionals in a way that doesn't protect pharmacy. I honestly love the salary and I would love being around medication all day, sadly I just feel insecure in a profession where I am controlled by CEOs and DMs that do not know much about patient care. Disagree with me, curse at me if you want, but that is how I feel.

Back to the tuition for pharmacy schools I mean I looked up a lot of pharmacy tuitions. Most of them, Private schools where I am at at NYC, are 35-40k yearly. That puts you at a 160k loan... Who in their right mind would take out 160k in loans...???? Just to get a 110k salary..? Might as well become a podiatry, heck at least your an independent health care professional that has potential to make over 200k with the right practice, hardwork, and circumstances. I just feel pharmacy schools are "fooling" students into entering a field with "easy money, no direct patient interaction, easy pay." Look I know pharmacists are important, I don't want an overdose or the wrong med, but come on, the work political situation thingy stinks for pharmacists. I think they should be earning a minimum of 140k. I mean they have doctorates, at least they should be respected.

That nullifies the value of a 110-120k salary. That salary is a confounding variable that fails to consider the 2.5k-3.5k monthly loan repayment most students take. That puts your "true salary" at 85-95k. That is how much PAs and NPs make starting.

So salary wise, and come on, most pharmacy schools are private, if you are at a public congrats you'll probably have a 100k take home salary. But look I was admitted into Pharmacy school in 2009, it was a 6 yr direct, but I would have had a 120k student loans and an unsecure future.

But going back to what you were saying, is it really hard to hold onto pharmacy jobs..? I am just curious.
 
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Pharmacy, especially retail, is one of the fields where experience, age and therefore higher pay makes one susceptible for the chopping blocks. We are viewed, in part, as an expensive commodity and it is not practical from a business standpoint to employ the same pharmacist over a long period of time when there's a nice supply of graduates waiting to snatch your position. Hence, it is rather difficult to make a sustainable 'career' out of pharmacy. Highly doubtful you have this lurking fear as an NP, physician or dentist, where more and more quality experience gets you farther away from probationary status, as it should be! Pharmacy is special where more and more experience gets you closer and closer to probationary status, lol. Maybe not so much as a hospital pharmacist in a union, but it is pretty tough to get employed as one unless you have a connection to a major hospital.
 
Pharmacy, especially retail, is one of the fields where experience, age and therefore higher pay makes one susceptible for the chopping blocks. We are viewed, in part, as an expensive commodity and it is not practical from a business standpoint to employ the same pharmacist over a long period of time when there's a nice supply of graduates waiting to snatch your position. Hence, it is rather difficult to make a sustainable 'career' out of pharmacy. Highly doubtful you have this lurking fear as an NP, physician or dentist, where more and more quality experience gets you farther away from probationary status, as it should be! Pharmacy is special where more and more experience gets you closer and closer to probationary status, lol. Maybe not so much as a hospital pharmacist in a union, but it is pretty tough to get employed as one unless you have a connection to a major hospital.
All I have to say is... Isn't the 120k retail pharm. salary misleading... We all know most pharmacy students have loans due to private school attendance. I know that is how it is whenever you take out a loan and work anywhere... But isn't the real salary 120k minus whatever you pay yearly which is high with 120k+ student loans.
So isn't the real salary 100k yearly...? That is comparable to PA/NP (starting) salaries.
So salary isn't the story.. the story is demand, respect, work condition, future, etc. Granted that...
Asides from going into pharmacy for a true passion for the field, shouldn't one that demands "100k starting salary and a health professional job" go into a job with the best non salary factors... I know NPs in family practice are ALWAYS in demand because they are replacing the spots that are unfilled by Primary care physicians. NPs also have opportunity for career growth: no collaborative practice and more independence after 2-3 years making you feel more respected and working more independently: running the whole practice... etc etc.
 
@Intel1122 :

The current multi problems in pharmacy are caused by schools' greed which is causing this whole oversupplying of new grads. If that happened in medicine, PA, podiatry, etc., you would see the same things that happened to law or are happening now to pharmacy. Being a doctor or PA / NP or whatever is not immune to oversupply...

But, look: you have done DD / research and answered your own questions. You already say you are becoming a family NP. Also saturation caused by schools' greed is not something that both you and I can fix. So furgetbouti !!

Go and become a NP and leave this battle for someone else to fight and don't look back. I am doing the same. GL ;)
 
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Would doing a fellowship or doing a residency at a hospital further secure one's profession in pharmacy? Currently doing my first year in pre-reqs for pharmacy school, and i'm also quite skeptical and worried on the future of pharmacy :/
 
Would doing a fellowship or doing a residency at a hospital further secure one's profession in pharmacy? Currently doing my first year in pre-reqs for pharmacy school, and i'm also quite skeptical and worried on the future of pharmacy :/
Hi... What is your overall and science gpa. Do you have any pharmacy experience/extracirricular activities.As long as you have above a 3.2 in both science and overall gpas, you don't have any severe red flags and you could take out the loans, you have decent PCATs and prereq grades (B preferred), you'll get in. Pharmacy school literally accept almost everyone, but the Pharm D just is a key to a door of a world of tough work.

Honestly I don't think fellowships/residency is worth it unless you want to do hospital pharmacy. But i strongly advise you Not to do clinical/hospital pharmacy, just not too many jobs. If you are a good enough candidate for a hospital pharm position, you won't need a "residency."
Residencies are not the norm and probably will never be in 20 years.

I have some interest in pharmacy, but given I am alrdy an RN and have only 2 years left to become an NP I have to question my decision. Maybe If I am bored after being an NP and I want an antisocial repetitive job I'll go into pharmacy... I'm kinda an antisocial guy so I guess that is fine for me, but I'm great at talking to people lol. I am pretty good at bsing talking.

Anyway, Look, if you enjoy pharmacy I say go for it. You should do anything you have a passion for, but make sure you have an idea of what it is before you do it. Don't just "listen" to what people say, if your just out of high school, you'll have to learn not everyone's opinion: ex: your teachers your parents' words are not the words of God. Regardless of what anyone says, you are accountable for your own actions and ultimately you'll learn that you'll blame yourself for your failure and reward Yourself for your successes.

As for the future of pharmacy, honestly Idk. I wouldn't do it as a beginning job IMO. Im an RN becoming an NP, so I already have a primary in demand job as an NP. I don't think pharmacy is in that demand as it use to be sadly. Too many pharm grads, easy admissions that make it an uncompetitive degree. Not to say you won't enjoy it or you won't get a job.

You just won't easily get and keep your job. You'll need to Work HARD. If you want an easy 100k job go into NP/PA where you're wanted as "cheap labor" in the eyes of doctors, its sad but its true, but I love what NPs do.

Honestly I am doing pharmacy in the future just for fun, and for a relatively good paying job. I doubt I will work my ass off there unless I truly enjoy the adrenaline.

But look, if you are ready to compete for jobs, Go to work early leave late, accept any position regardless of how ****ty the pay is, how crappy the hours are, you'll succeed in pharmacy or any profession for that matter. You have to "pay your dues" as a newbie as people will want you to "suffer" a bit before you taste the freshness of the profession. But I question pharmacy because there is a lack of upward mobility in terms of career prospects and pay. The retail pay usually remains stagnant as 110-120k, not bad at all, but don't count on your 10 years of retail xp to enhance your salary from 110 to 200k without some sort of overtime work. Not going to happen.

Sadly you should have a PASSION for it, because you'll be treated like crap. And pharmacies will literally treat you like crap to see how well you cope with it. Once they see you are willing to be overworked, then you'll pick up easier jobs as you progress in your career. But its nonetheless a tough job that I don't think you should start off in right away. Its not what it use to be. I suggest you to get a general science/liberal arts degree with prerequisites and explore every profession.

You'll see how terrible the pharmacy profession is politically, but its still a great job for those that want to help others and do routine tasks that lack creativity for antisocial people such as myself lol. Thats why I would like to do it.
 
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Hi... What is your overall and science gpa. Do you have any pharmacy experience/extracirricular activities.As long as you have above a 3.2 in both science and overall gpas, you don't have any severe red flags and you could take out the loans, you have decent PCATs and prereq grades (B preferred), you'll get in. Pharmacy school literally accept almost everyone, but the Pharm D just is a key to a door of a world of tough work.

Honestly I don't think fellowships/residency is worth it unless you want to do hospital pharmacy. But i strongly advise you Not to do clinical/hospital pharmacy, just not too many jobs. If you are a good enough candidate for a hospital pharm position, you won't need a "residency."
Residencies are not the norm and probably will never be in 20 years.

I have some interest in pharmacy, but given I am alrdy an RN and have only 2 years left to become an NP I have to question my decision. Maybe If I am bored after being an NP and I want an antisocial repetitive job I'll go into pharmacy... I'm kinda an antisocial guy so I guess that is fine for me, but I'm great at talking to people lol. I am pretty good at bsing talking.

Anyway, Look, if you enjoy pharmacy I say go for it. You should do anything you have a passion for, but make sure you have an idea of what it is before you do it. Don't just "listen" to what people say, if your just out of high school, you'll have to learn not everyone's opinion: ex: your teachers your parents' words are not the words of God. Regardless of what anyone says, you are accountable for your own actions and ultimately you'll learn that you'll blame yourself for your failure and reward Yourself for your successes.

As for the future of pharmacy, honestly Idk. I wouldn't do it as a beginning job IMO. Im an RN becoming an NP, so I already have a primary in demand job as an NP. I don't think pharmacy is in that demand as it use to be sadly. Too many pharm grads, easy admissions that make it an uncompetitive degree. Not to say you won't enjoy it or you won't get a job.

You just won't easily get and keep your job. You'll need to Work HARD. If you want an easy 100k job go into NP/PA where you're wanted as "cheap labor" in the eyes of doctors, its sad but its true, but I love what NPs do.

Honestly I am doing pharmacy in the future just for fun, and for a relatively good paying job. I doubt I will work my ass off there unless I truly enjoy the adrenaline.

But look, if you are ready to compete for jobs, Go to work early leave late, accept any position regardless of how ****ty the pay is, how crappy the hours are, you'll succeed in pharmacy or any profession for that matter. You have to "pay your dues" as a newbie as people will want you to "suffer" a bit before you taste the freshness of the profession. But I question pharmacy because there is a lack of upward mobility in terms of career prospects and pay. The retail pay usually remains stagnant as 110-120k, not bad at all, but don't count on your 10 years of retail xp to enhance your salary from 110 to 200k without some sort of overtime work. Not going to happen.

Sadly you should have a PASSION for it, because you'll be treated like crap. And pharmacies will literally treat you like crap to see how well you cope with it. Once they see you are willing to be overworked, then you'll pick up easier jobs as you progress in your career. But its nonetheless a tough job that I don't think you should start off in right away. Its not what it use to be. I suggest you to get a general science/liberal arts degree with prerequisites and explore every profession.

You'll see how terrible the pharmacy profession is politically, but its still a great job for those that want to help others and do routine tasks that lack creativity for antisocial people such as myself lol. Thats why I would like to do it.

My science GPA for my first semester is currently a 2.9 and my overall is a 3.2 (Was not too serious last semester ;s). Looking forward to working my ass off and boosting it with A's this coming semester. I understand that extracurricular would be the difference to my application. I was looking forward to getting a position as a pharmacy technician at a CVS or Walgreens over the semester considering I have 3 days open of free time. I'm still doing my research on how to become certified and what not, could you fill me up with what I should do?
 
Just keep applying to pharmacies. In some states, you don't have to be certified to get a pharm tech job. Companies like CVS and Walgreens train you to become certified.
 
Some pharmacy schools now are adjusting to trying to find the new niche of what pharmacy can be. I know for sure USF is trying to incorporate this "healthcare team" aspect by having their colleges of medicine/pharmacy/nursing/etc. interact more and do group work. I know UF has changed their curriculum as well. I think going to a school trying to change to a new niche in pharmacy is the way to go atm imho
 
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Would doing a fellowship or doing a residency at a hospital further secure one's profession in pharmacy? Currently doing my first year in pre-reqs for pharmacy school, and i'm also quite skeptical and worried on the future of pharmacy :/

It would not lead to job security. Even the job market for PGY1s is saturated in many areas even though it is more competitive than ever to match with a residency.
 
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Pharmacy is really bad in cities and rural areas are just bad. I hire pharmacists for my company, so for me my job is easier than ever. I got 80 applicants for 5 positions in rural ny and I took everyone over 50 and threw those out. Then I took all the new grads and threw those out. So that left me with the 5 to 8 year experience people. I started at 50 dollars an hour and went down. I got 5 people willing to take 45 to 47. Next year I will fire 3 to 5 more oldies and do the same thing. I am a pharmacist too and I wouldn't do the bench anymore. There are 10 people willing to take your place at any moment. I have so many stories on how we are doing this. The MBAs at the company have creative and ruthless solutions to make their metrics work.
 
Pharmacy is really bad in cities and rural areas are just bad. I hire pharmacists for my company, so for me my job is easier than ever. I got 80 applicants for 5 positions in rural ny and I took everyone over 50 and threw those out. Then I took all the new grads and threw those out. So that left me with the 5 to 8 year experience people. I started at 50 dollars an hour and went down. I got 5 people willing to take 45 to 47. Next year I will fire 3 to 5 more oldies and do the same thing. I am a pharmacist too and I wouldn't do the bench anymore. There are 10 people willing to take your place at any moment. I have so many stories on how we are doing this. The MBAs at the company have creative and ruthless solutions to make their metrics work.
What do you mean by doing the bench?
 
@Intel1122 :

The current multi problems in pharmacy are caused by schools' greed which is causing this whole oversupplying of new grads. If that happened in medicine, PA, podiatry, etc., you would see the same things that happened to law or are happening now to pharmacy. Being a doctor or PA / NP or whatever is not immune to oversupply...

But, look: you have done DD / research and answered your own questions. You already say you are becoming a family NP. Also saturation caused by schools' greed is not something that both you and I can fix. So furgetbouti !!

Go and become a NP and leave this battle for someone else to fight and don't look back. I am doing the same. GL ;)

The OP is a troll and has been temporarily banned from SDN for spamming, copy and pasting the same thread to different forums.

He/she is using the guise of different screen names and even posted the same exact post on Yahoo Answers seeking validation or consolation to an apparently broken psyche.

Anyway, I'll see ya on the pre-med forums, oldstock! :)
 
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Pharmacists dropped in the US News Job Ranking. Went down from #5 best to now #27. You're better off as a cost estimator than a pharmacist. And guess who is number 1? Dentists! #2 is NURSE! #3 is Software developer! Starting to see a trend?! And maybe we're not so crazy?!

Computer programming is getting hammered. Probably because of all the H1B's flooding from India and Gates/Zuckerberg/Apple lobbying Congress for more of these H1B's. Used to be a decent field.

So your only real reason really to do pharmacy is if you are not good enough for any of the other fields. Unless you absolutely love pharmacy which means you're probably not working retail or you are the very few and far between.

So prepharmers who still think we are making crap up or are still under the illusion of how wonderful the pharmacy profession is in terms of job outlook, even one of the primary sources for your own beliefs (US News) has now downgraded pharmacy severely.

Good luck!
 
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Pharmacists dropped in the US News Job Ranking. Went down from #5 best to now #27. You're better off as a cost estimator than a pharmacist. And guess who is number 1? Dentists! #2 is NURSE! #3 is Software developer! Starting to see a trend?! And maybe we're not so crazy?!

Computer programming is getting hammered. Probably because of all the H1B's flooding from India and Gates/Zuckerberg/Apple lobbying Congress for more of these H1B's. Used to be a decent field.

So your only real reason really to do pharmacy is if you are not good for any of the other fields. Unless you absolutely love pharmacy which means you're probably not working retail or you are the very few and far between.

So prepharmers who still think we are making crap up or are still under the illusion of how wonderful the pharmacy profession is in terms of job outlook, even one of the primary sources for your own beliefs (US News) has now downgraded pharmacy severely.

Good luck!

post a link, bro :) pre-pharmers might still think you are making stuffs up lol
 
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Why does everyone get so emotional about it. If you increase the number of graduates and don't increase the number of jobs.
You get a high unemployment rate for RPHs. How people react to this simple fact is amusing to me. When in life has anything good lasted forever. Pharmacy was good for 20 years. It is not going to be good again or like it was. It is like those 40 year old guys who try to get six pack abs by eating right and working out. Just face it, you will never have it again
 
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Why does everyone get so emotional about it. If you increase the number of graduates and don't increase the number of jobs.
You get a high unemployment rate for RPHs. How people react to this simple fact is amusing to me. When in life has anything good lasted forever. Pharmacy was good for 20 years. It is not going to be good again or like it was. It is like those 40 year old guys who try to get six pack abs by eating right and working out. Just face it, you will never have it again

For many stuck in the program with no other options, denial and defensiveness are the only ways to cope with the sad reality. I don't blame them especially if that keeps them from endlessly popping Prozacs and whatnot.

On another note, did you hear how Tops (or Wegmans) supermarket laid off 50+ pharmacists in the upstate NY region? These are seasoned pharmacists that will be competing with new grads in the forseeable future. I saw it on the news this morning, their pharmacies were simply not generating enough revenue to keep it open. This isn't even metropolitan NY, it's rural NY ...

*Edit*
Link: http://m.bizjournals.com/buffalo/ne...-pharmacies-in-erie-county-stores.html?r=full
 
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Let's put it this way. The Rite Aid DM for our area just gave a lecture in our class. Afterwards we had a QA question with him. He told us the outlook doesn't look good. The starting salaries for the past 3 classes have dropped by roughly $10,000, and currently if Rite Aid was looking to hire anyone, the only places in the country with a need are Maine, Montana, and Louisiana. If we wanted to stay in our local area, we would be put on a waiting list.

I really am regretting taking out almost $200K in loans for a profession that has essentially no jobs.
 
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We need more people like you to speak out about the reality. This will serve a couple of purposes: 1. Saving the pre-pharmers from spending 4 - 6 yrs (+residency) + 150 - 200K+ student loans from saturated pharmacy, 2. Reducing the influx of students, and if enough it will ---> 3. Forcing schools to stop expanding and opening, reduce tuition and even have to close, & 4. it would then give enough time for the market to cover from saturation and come back to equilibrium.

http://fortune.com/2014/04/15/why-brooklyn-law-cut-its-tuition/

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/articles/2014/03/18/as-law-schools-reduce-cost-experts-say-financial-planning-still-key

http://abovethelaw.com/2014/05/law-school-announces-30-percent-tuition-cut/

http://time.com/67168/law-school-college-tuition/


Please pharmacy people, come here and speak out. Don't wait for those useless pharmacy organizations to do anything as their benefits are aligning more with pharmacy schools' than yours, pharmacy students', pharmacists' and / or pre-pharmers'. Don't wait until market corrects this saturation problem for you with nasty consequences.

Save you, save us from schools' greed !!
 
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For many stuck in the program with no other options, denial and defensiveness are the only ways to cope with the sad reality. I don't blame them especially if that keeps them from endlessly popping Prozacs and whatnot.

On another note, did you hear how Tops (or Wegmans) supermarket laid off 50+ pharmacists in the upstate NY region? These are seasoned pharmacists that will be competing with new grads in the forseeable future. I saw it on the news this morning, their pharmacies were simply not generating enough revenue to keep it open. This isn't even metropolitan NY, it's rural NY ...

*Edit*
Link: http://m.bizjournals.com/buffalo/ne...-pharmacies-in-erie-county-stores.html?r=full
Oh yeah. That was a big layoff. Many of my friends worked there and they know there are no jobs for them in new york. I cant believe cvs and rite aid only took 5 of the 50, but i wasnt surprised. I'm hoping to hold on to my job for about 5 years. I know another round of layoffs is coming. I hire pharmacists for my company and we offered the new grads 47 an hour and they took it. Target forced all of their old pharmacists out as well.
 
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Let's put it this way. The Rite Aid DM for our area just gave a lecture in our class. Afterwards we had a QA question with him. He told us the outlook doesn't look good. The starting salaries for the past 3 classes have dropped by roughly $10,000, and currently if Rite Aid was looking to hire anyone, the only places in the country with a need are Maine, Montana, and Louisiana. If we wanted to stay in our local area, we would be put on a waiting list.

I really am regretting taking out almost $200K in loans for a profession that has essentially no jobs.

Wow this is pretty drastic, I wasn't expecting it to be that bad, especially in KY. I'm assuming you're from Univ of KY? That's a real top school and if that isn't enough to improve the odds of landing a job, not sure what will. My impression of KY was that it wasn't that saturated compared to other areas. Though Maine sounds like a nice place to work, eat lobster everyday, hiking, nature trails, seafood, I'd do it.

If you recently graduated or soon to graduate this year or next I can forgive you because when you started pharmacy school there were some jobs and when those classes entered their freshman year, there were still some sign on bonuses from their seniors.

But if you entered pharmacy school this year or last as a freshman, you really screwed yourself over and took a huge risk for less reward and have no excuse for poor career choice once you realize it. They'll argue the usual (work hard, BLS, US News 2014, projected growth, 60 yr old pharmacists say it's good field, Forbes without the comments, yada yada yada) and ignore the reality. They'll say it's better than other fields well all fields suck and there's some truth in that, but pharmacy is going to suck more drastically pretty soon than the fields it used to be better than. I mean even US News downgraded it 22 places. I feel US News is a lot of BS but even they seem to realize it's a bubble and poor outlook.

A basic google search will bring a lot of results about the pharmacy job market and tell it as it is. That's all the homework you need to do prepharmers, it's that easy so you have no excuse complaining 4 years later about the job market, you were warned time and time again and now the effect is really hitting home to a lot of people. Research has even been presented questioning the field written by pharmacists themselves. (we're not the research authors though I wonder if they browse SDN).

Bottom line: you should really only do pharmacy school if you are not good enough for any of the other health professions. otherwise you're making a real big gamble and more and more likely a disastrous financial mistake. And if you love pharmacy, make sure that love for pharmacy is worth more than hundreds of K in debt, struggles to find work and stress about potential layoffs. You might not love it so much once you realize that. Individual situations will vary but be careful again heed what's mentioned on the internet, it's not like a whole group is trolling. I'm actually hoping a lot of poor quality students do pharmacy. the smart ones will make smart decisions and be rewarded for it while the pharmacists working don't have to worry as much about their job being taken away.
 
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Wow this is pretty drastic, I wasn't expecting it to be that bad, especially in KY. I'm assuming you're from Univ of KY? That's a real top school and if that isn't enough to improve the odds of landing a job, not sure what will. My impression of KY was that it wasn't that saturated compared to other areas. Though Maine sounds like a nice place to work, eat lobster everyday, hiking, nature trails, seafood, I'd do it.

If you recently graduated or soon to graduate this year or next I can forgive you because when you started pharmacy school there were some jobs and when those classes entered their freshman year, there were still some sign on bonuses from their seniors.

But if you entered pharmacy school this year or last as a freshman, you really screwed yourself over and took a huge risk for less reward and have no excuse for poor career choice once you realize it. They'll argue the usual (work hard, BLS, US News 2014, projected growth, 60 yr old pharmacists say it's good field, Forbes without the comments, yada yada yada) and ignore the reality. They'll say it's better than other fields well all fields suck and there's some truth in that, but pharmacy is going to suck more drastically pretty soon than the fields it used to be better than. I mean even US News downgraded it 22 places. I feel US News is a lot of BS but even they seem to realize it's a bubble and poor outlook.

A basic google search will bring a lot of results about the pharmacy job market and tell it as it is. That's all the homework you need to do prepharmers, it's that easy so you have no excuse complaining 4 years later about the job market, you were warned time and time again and now the effect is really hitting home to a lot of people. Research has even been presented questioning the field written by pharmacists themselves. (we're not the research authors though I wonder if they browse SDN).

that is not drastic, my calculation says 60% of new grads will be unemployed in 2022 based on 2014 AACP's data and BLS'.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/pharmacy-job-market-outlook.639184/page-55#post-16029909


Bottom line: you should really only do pharmacy school if you are not good enough for any of the other health professions. otherwise you're making a real big gamble and more and more likely a disastrous financial mistake. And if you love pharmacy, make sure that love for pharmacy is worth more than hundreds of K in debt, struggles to find work and stress about potential layoffs. You might not love it so much once you realize that. Individual situations will vary but be careful again heed what's mentioned on the internet, it's not like a whole group is trolling. I'm actually hoping a lot of poor quality students do pharmacy. the smart ones will make smart decisions and be rewarded for it while the pharmacists working don't have to worry as much about their job being taken away.

OH NO NO !! Remember the principle, "First, do no harm". I think, even you are not good enough for any other health professions, you should try to refrain yourself from making your life even worse by taking on 150 - 200K+ student loans + 4-6 yrs (+residency) for that kind of risks... There are plenty of other things in life that one can do. Pharmacy by all means, is not the only choice.

For God's sake, when pharmacy schools let in almost everyone and ANYONE, that should serve as a tell-tell sign for us,

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...study-where-do-i-begin.1116122/#post-16075503
 
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The year 2014 has seen a record increase in jobs since the 2007-2009 recession. Jobs in other fields, especially in software/computers, have seen the most growth. Meanwhile, in pharmacy, the number of graduates and unemployment rate of pharmacists have reached record levels and will continue to get worse as there is nothing to close the floodgates to students entering the field.
 
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Pharmacy is really bad in cities and rural areas are just bad. I hire pharmacists for my company, so for me my job is easier than ever. I got 80 applicants for 5 positions in rural ny and I took everyone over 50 and threw those out. Then I took all the new grads and threw those out. So that left me with the 5 to 8 year experience people. I started at 50 dollars an hour and went down. I got 5 people willing to take 45 to 47. Next year I will fire 3 to 5 more oldies and do the same thing. I am a pharmacist too and I wouldn't do the bench anymore. There are 10 people willing to take your place at any moment. I have so many stories on how we are doing this. The MBAs at the company have creative and ruthless solutions to make their metrics work.


Isn't this age discrimination? You should be sued for
 
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Let's put it this way. The Rite Aid DM for our area just gave a lecture in our class. Afterwards we had a QA question with him. He told us the outlook doesn't look good. The starting salaries for the past 3 classes have dropped by roughly $10,000, and currently if Rite Aid was looking to hire anyone, the only places in the country with a need are Maine, Montana, and Louisiana. If we wanted to stay in our local area, we would be put on a waiting list.

I really am regretting taking out almost $200K in loans for a profession that has essentially no jobs.

That is pretty scary if the Rite-Aid DM said there were no jobs. Just 4 years ago one of the Rite Aid managers was bragging about how many pharmacists they had hired the year before. 2011, 2012, and some of 2013 seemed to be decent years. Doors were definitely open to new graduates. In 2014, for the first time, I saw many new graduates complain about how they had to move to rural areas. Even Rite-Aid only had rural jobs. Wags actually over-hired floaters in my area last year. Since they had some many floaters they were looking for every little excuse to get rid of their underperformers.

What I am seeing right now is that retail is completely glutted. Even the floater positions are too over filled in metro areas. Rural is all that's left. Hospitals are still expanding in many areas but the jobs are competitive. Hospitals are becoming much more selective about hiring residency-trained pharmacists. What i think will happen in the next 1-3 years is that there will be a glut of unemployed residency-trained pharmacists. This is especially the case because residency programs are expanding. Residency-trained pharmacists can brag about how they are protected, but they will be just as vulnerable as everyone else.

By about 2018, this field is going to be a real crazy-house. If pharmacies ever start employing same-day delivery it could result in even more strain on retail pharmacies.
 
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That is pretty scary if the Rite-Aid DM said there were no jobs. Just 4 years ago one of the Rite Aid managers was bragging about how many pharmacists they had hired the year before. 2011, 2012, and some of 2013 seemed to be decent years. Doors were definitely open to new graduates. In 2014, for the first time, I saw many new graduates complain about how they had to move to rural areas. Even Rite-Aid only had rural jobs. Wags actually over-hired floaters in my area last year. Since they had some many floaters they were looking for every little excuse to get rid of their underperformers.

What I am seeing right now is that retail is completely glutted. Even the floater positions are too over filled in metro areas. Rural is all that's left. Hospitals are still expanding in many areas but the jobs are competitive. Hospitals are becoming much more selective about hiring residency-trained pharmacists. What i think will happen in the next 1-3 years is that there will be a glut of unemployed residency-trained pharmacists. This is especially the case because residency programs are expanding. Residency-trained pharmacists can brag about how they are protected, but they will be just as vulnerable as everyone else.

By about 2018, this field is going to be a real crazy-house. If pharmacies ever start employing same-day delivery it could result in even more strain on retail pharmacies.



But I bet there are many many people are still not believing this or that this will not happen to them... Until it happens to them...
 
Isn't this age discrimination? You should be sued for
We all do it. Our companies force us to. The old people cost too much and have too much vacation. The new grads cost to too much to train. So keeping the pharmacist experience level between 3 to 8 years is perfect. I will even tell you how we fire the old people. When you have reached 8 years with us your name pops up on my screen. Then I get with the store manager and we write you up for everything you can think of until you quit, which saves us unemployment as is ideal or we fire you for too many violations. It is really tough at the well run pharmacies because the pharmacist always seem so confused, but my bonus is based on how fast you go.
 
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We all do it. Our companies force us to. The old people cost too much and have too much vacation. The new grads cost to too much to train. So keeping the pharmacist experience level between 3 to 8 years is perfect. I will even tell you how we fire the old people. When you have reached 8 years with us your name pops up on my screen. Then I get with the store manager and we write you up for everything you can think of until you quit, which saves us unemployment as is ideal or we fire you for too many violations. It is really tough at the well run pharmacies because the pharmacist always seem so confused, but my bonus is based on how fast you go.

It's going to suck one day when your name flashes across your bosses screen. Oh the Karma.

Seriously, I can't wait to tell people like you to shove it. Putting in enough years for me to open my own business and tell the paper pushing assclowns they can have it.
 
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I can't fathom but realize how this thread has destroyed my hopes and dreams for my "future". Reality sucks!
 
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We all do it. Our companies force us to. The old people cost too much and have too much vacation. The new grads cost to too much to train. So keeping the pharmacist experience level between 3 to 8 years is perfect. I will even tell you how we fire the old people. When you have reached 8 years with us your name pops up on my screen. Then I get with the store manager and we write you up for everything you can think of until you quit, which saves us unemployment as is ideal or we fire you for too many violations. It is really tough at the well run pharmacies because the pharmacist always seem so confused, but my bonus is based on how fast you go.


I know this kind of stuffs happens all the time. But something is wrong in your picture: You are wrong and know that you are wrong. You could do / handle things differently. But you also choose to go with it knowing this is wrong all along.

None of this will not happen without any consequences. At some points, someone is going to pay for this unethical and illegal practice.
 
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I can't fathom but realize how this thread has destroyed my hopes and dreams for my "future". Reality sucks!

it is not this thread which destroys your hopes and dreams. It is schools' greed that destroys the pharmacy profession and ruins everything for us.
 
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We all do it. Our companies force us to. The old people cost too much and have too much vacation. The new grads cost to too much to train. So keeping the pharmacist experience level between 3 to 8 years is perfect. I will even tell you how we fire the old people. When you have reached 8 years with us your name pops up on my screen. Then I get with the store manager and we write you up for everything you can think of until you quit, which saves us unemployment as is ideal or we fire you for too many violations. It is really tough at the well run pharmacies because the pharmacist always seem so confused, but my bonus is based on how fast you go.

I would say you are being a little bold posting this information here. I could see this kind of thing turning into a big lawsuit in the coming years. I'm glad you are being honest, but it seems there is a clear paper trail if a message pops up after 8 years of experience.

I have purposely tried to stay away from chains that are traded on the stock market. The squeeze for shareholder profits and dividends is going to be pretty rough on the employees. Too many benefits? Gone. Too many vacation days? Gone. Some of these drug stores have almost no room to cut hours so the only other alternative is to cut senior employees. What a crappy place to work. A job is certainly better than no job, but these situations look like they have gotten out of control.

In one respect, I'm glad I still work for a union. At least I have someone to protect us from predatory managers
 
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It's going to suck one day when your name flashes across your bosses screen. Oh the Karma.

Seriously, I can't wait to tell people like you to shove it. Putting in enough years for me to open my own business and tell the paper pushing assclowns they can have it.
I hope your business is not pharmacy. Our profit margin is only 3%. We would be out of business if we didn't do this. Personally I am in my mid 40s and am ready to leave whenever my name pops up. The only way an independent pharmacy can make it is in the big city right next to a doctors office or a rural village that a chain hasn't found yet. Let me be clear. The schools ruined and are ruining your profession not me. We just react to a market flooded by pharmacists
 
We all do it. Our companies force us to. The old people cost too much and have too much vacation. The new grads cost to too much to train. So keeping the pharmacist experience level between 3 to 8 years is perfect. I will even tell you how we fire the old people. When you have reached 8 years with us your name pops up on my screen. Then I get with the store manager and we write you up for everything you can think of until you quit, which saves us unemployment as is ideal or we fire you for too many violations. It is really tough at the well run pharmacies because the pharmacist always seem so confused, but my bonus is based on how fast you go.

It's going to suck one day when your name flashes across your bosses screen. Oh the Karma.

Seriously, I can't wait to tell people like you to shove it. Putting in enough years for me to open my own business and tell the paper pushing assclowns they can have it.

I know CVS does it in some areas. A new DM or higher up comes in and needs to show improvement to keep his job. So that person fired ("forced out") any pharmacist over 40, even if they were really good. I know a former CVS pharmacist, he's really good at his job and tons of respect, he's quick too and gets along with the customers. What was his problem? His age so it was bye bye for him. Luckily he's found work and continues to work hard, 1 of the best pharmacists I've worked w/ and he wasn't immune to forced aged based layoffs.

Age discrimination is unethical I agree but it's age discrimination that is at least giving some job openings to new grads and slowing the rate of new grad unemployment compared to the fast rate of unemployment it would have been without age discrimination. Age discrimination works both ways for new grads, no job stability but at least you get 1 right after graduation.

I wonder how many rankings pharmacy will drop next year, maybe to 30s-50s hopefully? Most prepharmers and students just seem to look for the highest ranked least difficult most reward career. I know from surveys of undergrads that many more are jumping on the dental bandwagon than pharmacy. physical therapist, doctors, also were pretty common. i think some of them are starting to get the picture. let's keep it up guys!
 
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I know CVS does it in some areas. A new DM or higher up comes in and needs to show improvement to keep his job. So that person fired ("forced out") any pharmacist over 40, even if they were really good. I know a former CVS pharmacist, he's really good at his job and tons of respect, he's quick too and gets along with the customers. What was his problem? His age so it was bye bye for him. Luckily he's found work and continues to work hard, 1 of the best pharmacists I've worked w/ and he wasn't immune to forced aged based layoffs.

Age discrimination is unethical I agree but it's age discrimination that is at least giving some job openings to new grads and slowing the rate of new grad unemployment compared to the fast rate of unemployment it would have been without age discrimination. Age discrimination works both ways for new grads, no job stability but at least you get 1 right after graduation.

I wonder how many rankings pharmacy will drop next year, maybe to 30s-50s hopefully? Most prepharmers and students just seem to look for the highest ranked least difficult most reward career. I know from surveys of undergrads that many more are jumping on the dental bandwagon than pharmacy. physical therapist, doctors, also were pretty common. i think some of them are starting to get the picture. let's keep it up guys!
its like a disease that is spreading to every health care field lol. Once the monsters who made this new school issue fiasco realize that pharmacy is done, they will move on and find a way to flood another field
 
its like a disease that is spreading to every health care field lol. Once the monsters who made this new school issue fiasco realize that pharmacy is done, they will move on and find a way to flood another field


disease ?? monsters ?? it is greed in education in America. Its business = $$$$$.

what is happening to pharmacy has already happened to dental in the 80s - 90s and law in the '00s.

all you need to do is to follow the money and you might not have to look further than your own professors, college / university... ;)
 
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its like a disease that is spreading to every health care field lol. Once the monsters who made this new school issue fiasco realize that pharmacy is done, they will move on and find a way to flood another field

Professional programs and most undergraduate degrees have become a scam to bilk students hundreds of thousands of dollars without the job security and salary to pay off the loans. The best return on investment nowadays is to learn a trade or get a degree in a field such as finance, engineering, computers, etc. that is in demand. Even doctors earn less than teachers in a lifetime. I cannot imagine the earnings gap between doctors/pharmacists and software engineers.

http://www.bestmedicaldegrees.com/salary-of-doctors/
 
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Professional programs and most undergraduate degrees have become a scam to bilk students hundreds of thousands of dollars without the job security and salary to pay off the loans. The best return on investment nowadays is to learn a trade or get a degree in a field such as finance, engineering, computers, etc. that is in demand. Even doctors earn less than teachers in a lifetime. I cannot imagine the earnings gap between doctors/pharmacists and software engineers.

http://www.bestmedicaldegrees.com/salary-of-doctors/

you hit the nail on the freaking head !! It is all about money !!
 
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