MD What are my chances top 20

[ihateusernames2017]

ORM 3.84 sGPA, 3.83 GPA 524 MCAT computer science engineering major
Research: no clinical research, but I am currently working as an applied researcher at one of the big tech companies in the "big data" field. I have one patent out of this, but we haven't been publishing much recently. I also did research in high school for a couple years, but I'm not sure if that counts for much
Clinical Volunteering: not sure if it counts, will get to it later
Shadowing: 20 hours (weakness I know)
Nonclinical: 1000+ I started a nonprofit developing medical technology for global health. This exposed me to both last-mile clinics and hospitals themselves. I spent about a week in country working with the local healthcare professionals. Also involved in other food kitchens, dance marathon, things like that, but nothing as substantive as the nonprofit
Leadership: couple of different roles on campus besides the nonprofit work
I'll have worked for a couple years at a big tech company doing machine learning work, I also spent a summer abroad working, and another at my school in a lab.
School List:
Harvard
Stanford
UCSF
Columbia
Penn
Northwestern
Chicago
NYU
Columbia
Sinai
UCLA Geffen
UCSD
Keck
Washington
WashU Stl
Michigan
Cornell
Hopkins

I know that my list is super top heavy, but do people think I have a good shot at getting into one of these schools?

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[Goro]

ORM 3.84 sGPA, 3.83 GPA 524 MCAT computer science engineering major
Research: no clinical research, but I am currently working as an applied researcher at one of the big tech companies in the "big data" field. I have one patent out of this, but we haven't been publishing much recently. I also did research in high school for a couple years, but I'm not sure if that counts for much
Clinical Volunteering: not sure if it counts, will get to it later
Shadowing: 20 hours (weakness I know)
Nonclinical: 1000+ I started a nonprofit developing medical technology for global health. This exposed me to both last-mile clinics and hospitals themselves. I spent about a week in country working with the local healthcare professionals. Also involved in other food kitchens, dance marathon, things like that, but nothing as substantive as the nonprofit
Leadership: couple of different roles on campus besides the nonprofit work
I'll have worked for a couple years at a big tech company doing machine learning work, I also spent a summer abroad working, and another at my school in a lab.
School List:
Harvard
Stanford
UCSF
Columbia
Penn
Northwestern
Chicago
NYU
Columbia
Sinai
UCLA Geffen
UCSD
Keck
Washington
WashU Stl
Michigan
Cornell
Hopkins

I know that my list is super top heavy, but do people think I have a good shot at getting into one of these schools?

No clinical experience? Reject bait.

What are you going to say when asked how you know you are suited for a life of caring for the sick and suffering? “That you just know”? Imagine how that will go over!

From the wise LizzyM”: I am always reminded of a certain frequent poster of a few years ago. He was adamant about not volunteering as he did not want to give his services for free and he was busy and helping others was inconvenient. He matriculated to a medical school and lasted less than one year. He's now in school to become an accountant.


Here's the deal: You need to show AdComs that you know what you're getting into, and show off your altruistic, humanistic side. We need to know that you're going to like being around sick or injured people for the next 40 years.

Here's another way of looking at it: would you buy a new car without test driving it? Buy a new suit or dress without trying it on??

We're also not looking for merely for good medical students, we're looking for people who will make good doctors, and 4.0 GPA robots are a dime-a-dozen.

I've seen plenty of posts here from high GPA/high MCAT candidates who were rejected because they had little patient contact experience.

Not all volunteering needs to be in a hospital. Think hospice, Planned Parenthood, nursing homes, rehab facilities, crisis hotlines, camps for sick children, or clinics.

Some types of volunteer activities are more appealing than others. Volunteering in a nice suburban hospital is all very well and good and all, but doesn't show that you're willing to dig in and get your hands dirty in the same way that working with the developmentally disabled (or homeless, the dying, or Alzheimers or mentally ill or elderly or ESL or domestic, rural impoverished) does. The uncomfortable situations are the ones that really demonstrate your altruism and get you 'brownie points'. Plus, they frankly teach you more -- they develop your compassion and humanity in ways comfortable situations can't.

 

[ihateusernames2017]

I guess my big question is if my experience working in the developing world counts as clinical experience. I wasn't so much a volunteer, but more of a partner. (although it was in a nonprofit capacity, so I guess I was a volunteer?) I worked with community health workers and physicians, and I did interact with patients, but it was from the perspective of an engineer, not a student. I don't know if I would qualify that as "clinical volunteering" in the traditional sense though, and I don't know how adcoms would qualify this experience either. And if it doesn't, because I applied this cycle, I wasn't sure if I should try and get some more clinical experience in, even though at this point it's probably too late for it to make a difference

 

[Faha]

Where is your state of residence?

 

[ihateusernames2017]

Where is your state of residence?

California

 

[Faha]

California

You may be able to receive interviews at certain schools due to your high stats (ie: Washington U) but your low shadowing hours and lack of clinical volunteering hours with patient contact will definitely limit the number of interviews you receive. Add more shadowing hours and find a clinical volunteering position (hospital setting would be good) where you can accumulate at least 200 hours in case you need to reapply next year.

 

[ihateusernames2017]

You may be able to receive interviews at certain schools due to your high stats (ie: Washington U) but your low shadowing hours and lack of clinical volunteering hours with patient contact will definitely limit the number of interviews you receive. Add more shadowing hours and find a clinical volunteering position (hospital setting would be good) where you can accumulate at least 200 hours in case you need to reapply next year.

I guess I just don't why hospital volunteering is so important. Shadowing makes sense because you get to see the day to day life of doctors, but don't most hospital volunteers just perform menial tasks? I was under the impression that it doesn't even help people get the patient exposure that is such a large part of the application. Not to be arrogant or anything, but compared to, for example, my experience building technology for rural clinics, volunteering at a hospital just doesn't seem emotionally or intellectually fulfilling, and seems more like something to just round out an application instead of something that actually makes a difference. Would just checking off that box really make the difference between interviews and no interviews?

 

[Faha]

Let us know how the application cycle goes. I am curious to see how many interviews and/or acceptances you will receive.

 

[ihateusernames2017]

Let us know how the application cycle goes. I am curious to see how many interviews and/or acceptances you will receive.

I don't mean to come off as entitled or anything so I'm sorry if I do. I am legitimately curious as to why the difference in my app is the volunteer experience if I have a nontraditional exposure to patient interaction. Assuming this cycle goes poorly, would that 200 hours of volunteering make me that much more competitive?

 

[enchantediris]

I guess I just don't why hospital volunteering is so important. Shadowing makes sense because you get to see the day to day life of doctors, but don't most hospital volunteers just perform menial tasks? I was under the impression that it doesn't even help people get the patient exposure that is such a large part of the application. Not to be arrogant or anything, but compared to, for example, my experience building technology for rural clinics, volunteering at a hospital just doesn't seem emotionally or intellectually fulfilling, and seems more like something to just round out an application instead of something that actually makes a difference. Would just checking off that box really make the difference between interviews and no interviews?

It depends on the volunteer position and the person. Run of the mill patient transport? No, not particularly intellectually fulfilling. I found it decently emotionally fulfilling, though, and you do get to observe how many different healthcare providers interact with each other/how different departments work. However, there are also plenty of other clinical volunteer positions where you can make more meaningful contributions: nursing homes, free clinics, etc.

You may not mean to sound arrogant, however, your words make it seem that you are better than or above "menial" volunteering. Unfortunately, from what I've heard, you will be asked to do even more menial tasks from the start of medical school up through your residency. It's probably best to get used to it now. Once again, you don't have to just go through the motions -- there are inspiring and fulfilling clinical volunteer opportunities out there!

The bigger issue is that no one is as unique as they think they are/want to be. Even with your stats, there are going to be many people who are engineers, or who have done international work -- but have also at least checked the box of clinical volunteering and having a better understanding of what they're getting into. I do think your application would be substantially better with ~20-30 more shadowing hours and ~150 clinical volunteer hours. It sounds like you have a feeling that this is true as well -- so why not just do it if it will benefit your application? You may enjoy it more than you think.

 

[Faha]

I don't mean to come off as entitled or anything so I'm sorry if I do. I am legitimately curious as to why the difference in my app is the volunteer experience if I have a nontraditional exposure to patient interaction. Assuming this cycle goes poorly, would that 200 hours of volunteering make me that much more competitive?

Yes, it would. The schools you are applying to are very competitive. Stanford has a class of 90 with almost 7,000 applicants. They can weed out the low stat applicants and the high stat applicants with minimal patient contact and they still have far too many highly qualified applicants to choose from. You will receive interviews since they are some schools that will interview you because of your high stats. The GPA-MCAT grid shows that applicants with your stats have a than 93% chance for a MD acceptance. You will probably not be in that 7% who are not accepted but since you are applying only to very competitive schools it could happen. If you want to increase your chances add a few more schools such as UC Davis, UC Irvine, Hofstra, Einstein, Pitt, Case Western, Rochester and Cincinnati.

 

[md-2020]

I'll come the defense of the OP here a bit. Volunteering by and large is menial and pretty run-of-the-mill. But it's something med schools want to see, so you better get some (just like the MCAT. Few people enjoy it, but it's necessary). Now, some people certainly love volunteering and are very altruistic--that's fantastic. I and many others are okay with it, but probably won't be working at the free clinic every weekend after getting into med school--that's also fine. I don't think my application gave anyone the impression that this was something I'd be doing. But as an applicant you need to supply what the adcom wants to see at a minimum: there's tons of things in life that don't really "have a point" but nonetheless are important. At least try to get some hours during the app cycle to update for secondaries/interviews and stuff.

Your stats and most ECs are excellent. I'd be mildly surprised if you don't pull multiple Top 20 offers.

PS: UW (Univ. of Washington) is WWAMI heavy, so as a Cali resident maybe cut that school from your list.

 

[ihateusernames2017]

It depends on the volunteer position and the person. Run of the mill patient transport? No, not particularly intellectually fulfilling. I found it decently emotionally fulfilling, though, and you do get to observe how many different healthcare providers interact with each other/how different departments work. However, there are also plenty of other clinical volunteer positions where you can make more meaningful contributions: nursing homes, free clinics, etc.

You may not mean to sound arrogant, however, your words make it seem that you are better than or above "menial" volunteering. Unfortunately, from what I've heard, you will be asked to do even more menial tasks from the start of medical school up through your residency. It's probably best to get used to it now. Once again, you don't have to just go through the motions -- there are inspiring and fulfilling clinical volunteer opportunities out there!

The bigger issue is that no one is as unique as they think they are/want to be. Even with your stats, there are going to be many people who are engineers, or who have done international work -- but have also at least checked the box of clinical volunteering and having a better understanding of what they're getting into. I do think your application would be substantially better with ~20-30 more shadowing hours and ~150 clinical volunteer hours. It sounds like you have a feeling that this is true as well -- so why not just do it if it will benefit your application? You may enjoy it more than you think.

Yeah that's my fault, I don't mean that the volunteer work is not useful or important, and it was more my lack of imagination that pushed me to those more routine positions. I like the ideas people have posted about volunteering in something like a free clinic or nursing homes, and you're right, I might like it and I am looking into that now. But now, given that I have already sent in primaries and most of my secondaries, is there really any way for these upcoming experiences to affect my current application cycle? Thanks for the insight, you make a number of good points

 

[ihateusernames2017]

Yes, it would. The schools you are applying to are very competitive. Stanford has a class of 90 with almost 7,000 applicants. They can weed out the low stat applicants and the high stat applicants with minimal patient contact and they still have far too many highly qualified applicants to choose from. You will receive interviews since they are some schools that will interview you because of your high stats. The GPA-MCAT grid shows that applicants with your stats have a than 93% chance for a MD acceptance. You will probably not be in that 7% who are not accepted but since you are applying only to very competitive schools it could happen. If you want to increase your chances add a few more schools such as UC Davis, UC Irvine, Hofstra, Einstein, Pitt, Case Western, Rochester and Cincinnati.

Okay great thanks for the advice. One last question is that, if I do pick up new volunteering opportunities (especially now that I have time once I'm done with secondaries) is there any way to communicate that I have strengthened this weak part of my app without sounding horribly cynical? I actually have volunteering experiences I didn't really include on my app because I didn't feel like I invested heavily enough that they were meaningful, which I now realize could have been a mistake, but it might be too late to fix at this point right?

 

[ihateusernames2017]

I'll come the defense of the OP here a bit. Volunteering by and large is menial and pretty run-of-the-mill. But it's something med schools want to see, so you better get some (just like the MCAT. Few people enjoy it, but it's necessary). Now, some people certainly love volunteering and are very altruistic--that's fantastic. I and many others are okay with it, but probably won't be working at the free clinic every weekend after getting into med school--that's also fine. I don't think my application gave anyone the impression that this was something I'd be doing. But as an applicant you need to supply what the adcom wants to see at a minimum: there's tons of things in life that don't really "have a point" but nonetheless are important. At least try to get some hours during the app cycle to update for secondaries/interviews and stuff.

Your stats and most ECs are excellent. I'd be mildly surprised if you don't pull multiple Top 20 offers.

PS: UW (Univ. of Washington) is WWAMI heavy, so as a Cali resident maybe cut that school from your list.

Yeah that's a good point about getting some hours now, and I am actively trying to do that. One question I have (and I asked above too I think) is how I update my app if I've already sent in primary and secondaries. It seems a bit cynical to email schools that I've started working in like a free clinic or something, but I'm not sure how else to do so if I am not getting interviews. Any thoughts?

 

[Faha]

Okay great thanks for the advice. One last question is that, if I do pick up new volunteering opportunities (especially now that I have time once I'm done with secondaries) is there any way to communicate that I have strengthened this weak part of my app without sounding horribly cynical? I actually have volunteering experiences I didn't really include on my app because I didn't feel like I invested heavily enough that they were meaningful, which I now realize could have been a mistake, but it might be too late to fix at this point right?

You can bring up the subject during your interviews as a current activity you are involved in.