WAMC: What Are My Chances

[psych.meout]

I would say you have a good shot this time around, although the GRE is a little lower than what I've heard some programs want (general cutoff for top programs is 320 combined)... that being said, you have a ton of experiences and that should definitely make up for it.

Of note regarding your schools: if you haven't already heard back from USouth Cali, you likely did not receive an interview offer there. I received an offer to interview last week, and the interview day is 1/13/17 (so coming up fast).

Best of luck to you in this process!

While the quant score could be higher, those GRE scores are pretty good in and of themselves. More of the issue is that their GPA could be higher as well, so they don't really have one high stat offsetting another less than stellar one. There is a lot of research experience there, with some good productivity as well, but so many of the programs listed are very selective (e.g. UConn, UWash, UNC CHapel Hill, Penn State, UMass, USC) and all of the programs seem to be regionally restricted to the coasts. Regardless of how stellar one's credentials are, restricting applications like that really hamstrings their chances for admission. There is just so much demand for programs in these areas and for these specific programs in particular. It would have been better to add some programs in less geographically popular areas (i.e. away from the coasts and major metropolitan areas) and at programs with higher admissions rates.

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[rerope]

While the quant score could be higher, those GRE scores are pretty good in and of themselves. More of the issue is that their GPA could be higher as well, so they don't really have one high stat offsetting another less than stellar one. There is a lot of research experience there, with some good productivity as well, but so many of the programs listed are very selective (e.g. UConn, UWash, UNC CHapel Hill, Penn State, UMass, USC) and all of the programs seem to be regionally restricted to the coasts. Regardless of how stellar one's credentials are, restricting applications like that really hamstrings their chances for admission. There is just so much demand for programs in these areas and for these specific programs in particular. It would have been better to add some programs in less geographically popular areas (i.e. away from the coasts and major metropolitan areas) and at programs with higher admissions rates.

Thanks for your input. Part of the issue is I also chose places I knew I could thrive in. I realize that grad school isn't easy and I wanted areas where I could study, work and live while keeping my sanity haha (I'm currently from a major east coast city and when going through my long list of schools my mentors shot down many of the central USA programs based on this alone). But I do realize that I'm toeing the line with my choices and it could potentially backfire. I've also heard that I'm one of those 'foot in the door people' where on paper I look decent but I need someone to give me a chance so I can prove my mettle (which realistically isn't the job of POI's, I know its to make a safe investment in which they can maximize their returns).

Another note: I was able to get interviews at UConn and Penn State the last time I applied (with same GRE and GPA) but was unfortunately waitlisted at both. While its no guarantee, as its with different faculty this round and other uncontrollable factors, I feel like my application has vastly improved (I cringed looking at my 2012 application packet! Oh the mistakes I made then...)

 

[psych.meout]

Thanks for your input. Part of the issue is I also chose places I knew I could thrive in. I realize that grad school isn't easy and I wanted areas where I could study, work and live while keeping my sanity haha (I'm currently from a major east coast city and when going through my long list of schools my mentors shot down many of the central USA programs based on this alone). But I do realize that I'm toeing the line with my choices and it could potentially backfire. I've also heard that I'm one of those 'foot in the door people' where on paper I look decent but I need someone to give me a chance so I can prove my mettle (which realistically isn't the job of POI's, I know its to make a safe investment in which they can maximize their returns).

Another note: I was able to get interviews at UConn and Penn State the last time I applied (with same GRE and GPA) but was unfortunately waitlisted at both. While its no guarantee, as its with different faculty this round and other uncontrollable factors, I feel like my application has vastly improved (I cringed looking at my 2012 application packet! Oh the mistakes I made then...)

It's a good sign that you received interviews last time, but, as you note, there are many other variables outside of your own qualifications that significantly affect your admission prospects. Again, restricting programs based on location is only hurting your chances of admission, especially when many of the programs to which you are applying are very selective, e.g. I think Chapel Hill and UCONN have ~2-3% acceptance rates last time I checked.

Also, you need to understand that moving is a significant part of doctoral programs, including to some less desirable locations, even if you get your pick for grad school location-wise. You will still need to move for internship and post-doc, and it's a gamble to again geographically limit yourself.

 

[deleted343839]

Programs applied to (14): Drexel, Harvard, UConn, NYU, Harvard, UWash, UMiami, UNC Greneboro, UNC CHapel Hill, Penn State, Fordham, UMassBoston, USouth Cali, Rutgers.

Do I have any hope? My grades and GREs are nothing spectacular due to my average test taking skills (in my country multiple choice is far rarer) so I'm hoping my LORs, CV and SOP will get my foot in the door (I'm pretty good at interviewing ). However these are all great programs and there's always an impressive cohort so even with the strong fit I'm afraid my experience and grades might mean a third round for me. Give it to me straight and thanks for all your help everyone!

I agree that you could have stretched yourself a bit more geographically, especially given your research interests. I'm sure your mentors meant well, but their advice comes off as overprotective and/or underinformed. Hopefully this will not cost you an opportunity to find a good training site. It looks like you are in a more competitive position now, so I think there are plenty of reasons to be hopeful. Good luck!

 

[rerope]

I agree that you could have stretched yourself a bit more geographically, especially given your research interests. I'm sure your mentors meant well, but their advice comes off as overprotective and/or underinformed. Hopefully this will not cost you an opportunity to find a good training site. It looks like you are in a more competitive position now, so I think there are plenty of reasons to be hopeful. Good luck!

Thank you MamaPhD. While I'm happy to move for post-doc and internship I really wanted to stay on the coast for graduate school and I'm hoping this won't be my kiss of death. And I do believe my mentors were more on the overprotective side (one of whom is my recommender and also the director of a graduate program so I doubt they are uninformed in the process) but wanted me to aim high. My other issue is that I searched for POIs who's names I came across in the literature in the field I'm applying (and enjoyed their work) and not for the schools themselves. The mentors who were happening to take students happened to be at these schools (other POIs at less competitive schools weren't accepting for this cycle) and while there were a few other choices I couldn't afford to invest more resources applying to 15+ schools.

 

[deleted343839]

Thank you MamaPhD. While I'm happy to move for post-doc and internship I really wanted to stay on the coast for graduate school and I'm hoping this won't be my kiss of death. And I do believe my mentors were more on the overprotective side (one of whom is my recommender and also the director of a graduate program so I doubt they are uninformed in the process) but wanted me to aim high. My other issue is that I searched for POIs who's names I came across in the literature in the field I'm applying (and enjoyed their work) and not for the schools themselves. The mentors who were happening to take students happened to be at these schools (other POIs at less competitive schools weren't accepting for this cycle) and while there were a few other choices I couldn't afford to invest more resources applying to 15+ schools.

It sounds like you did your homework and did the best could within your geographical limitations. Good luck!

 

[singasongofjoy]

Hey everyone! Second time applying and just as terrified as the first time (2012) was a pretty negative experience. I've thrown in a counseling program (NYU) but all others are clinical PhD. Since then I've gotten more experience and narrowed my interests to implementation and dissemination research, particularly tailoring culturally sensitive treatments for trauma and depression/suicide in hard to retain high-risk groups (but I have a few other routes I'd like to pursue so I'm not too rigid in this aspect). Good to very strong fit to all programs.

GRE: 161/155/4.0
GPA: Cruddy 3.49 overall but 3.73 last 2 years at a University with a well known psychology department
LORs: 3 fantastic letters from professors who are happy to go to bat for me, one of whom will explain the subpar grades (financial issues/unstable housing) of the first 2 years.
Pubs: 1 book chapter; no peer reviewed articles and only 2 in prep that I'm not listing on CV
Presentations: 4 first author - 1 at a national conference and 1 is my honors thesis
Fellowships: 2 NIH research fellowships in undergrad. Unfortunately none going into grad school but am planning to apply for next cycle so will mention this to POIs if I receive interviews.

Relevant Research:
- Study coordinator: 1 year in my current position. Lots of responsibilities and most relevant to POIs I applied to. Unfortunately its a small lab and I do so much that I've had little time to publish (supervisor will cover this in letter). I will be on 2 publications (3rd and 5th author I think) In the next month I believe so hopefully I can update my CV. However, I am consistently getting larger roles in projects so I may be able to co-create a few assessments/manual in the next few months.
- RA: 1 year and recently left. Great letter from here and where I had the publication and 2 presentations. Also relevant to the interests of some POIs
- RA: 3 years, 2 of which were with a NIH fellowship. PI knows me very well (6 years) and I had a presentation from the data here.
- Other summer and post-bac research experiences elaborated in CV

Relevant Clinical
- 6 months behavioral health coach (Autism/ADHD/Anxiety) for K through 1st grade and young adults.
- 1 year clinical intervention intern: Create and implement outreach events concerning mental and physical health concerns for college students.

Other: First person of my family to finish traditional high school and university, and only person to apply for graduate school.

Programs applied to (14): Drexel, Harvard, UConn, NYU, Harvard, UWash, UMiami, UNC Greneboro, UNC CHapel Hill, Penn State, Fordham, UMassBoston, USouth Cali, Rutgers.

Do I have any hope? My grades and GREs are nothing spectacular due to my average test taking skills (in my country multiple choice is far rarer) so I'm hoping my LORs, CV and SOP will get my foot in the door (I'm pretty good at interviewing ). However these are all great programs and there's always an impressive cohort so even with the strong fit I'm afraid my experience and grades might mean a third round for me. Give it to me straight and thanks for all your help everyone!

If you have 2 manuscripts in progress, you could find a way to mention them in your cover letter or essays or something, perhaps? That shows a nice momentum. You're right that your grades and GRE aren't spectacular, but you've got a lot else going for you if you get past that first round of initial culling of applications. Best of luck!

 

[singasongofjoy]

Thanks for your input. Part of the issue is I also chose places I knew I could thrive in. I realize that grad school isn't easy and I wanted areas where I could study, work and live while keeping my sanity haha (I'm currently from a major east coast city and when going through my long list of schools my mentors shot down many of the central USA programs based on this alone). But I do realize that I'm toeing the line with my choices and it could potentially backfire. I've also heard that I'm one of those 'foot in the door people' where on paper I look decent but I need someone to give me a chance so I can prove my mettle (which realistically isn't the job of POI's, I know its to make a safe investment in which they can maximize their returns).

Another note: I was able to get interviews at UConn and Penn State the last time I applied (with same GRE and GPA) but was unfortunately waitlisted at both. While its no guarantee, as its with different faculty this round and other uncontrollable factors, I feel like my application has vastly improved (I cringed looking at my 2012 application packet! Oh the mistakes I made then...)

It's a late to apply to other places now, but in case it's ever relevant in the future - I wouldn't have cut out applying to the midwest/central US programs- you can always apply and then use interviews as an opportunity to check them out. I was in a midwest city for internship and of all the many places I've lived, it's my second favorite (my most favorite being my current location). It was an absolute blast and a total surprise- did not fit my preconceptions. So much to do and if it weren't for the distance from my family and the brutal winter I would have stayed. I was in a definitely less than desirable city for grad school, but was so busy that frankly it made very little difference to my overall happiness level - even though there was less to do around town that interested me overall, I had less time to do it, so my free time was easily filled with fun and novel adventures and if you look you can always find similarly-minded people anywhere you go. My spouse, on the other hand, detested the city but he had a lot more down time than I did and it was not a very biking/running/vegetarian friendly kinda place so it did affect his overall happiness level. But next time you get to the point of deciding where to apply (e.g., if you're ever applying for round 3, or internsihp / post doc) I encourage you to keep an open mind about location! Good luck!

 

[rerope]

It's a late to apply to other places now, but in case it's ever relevant in the future - I wouldn't have cut out applying to the midwest/central US programs- you can always apply and then use interviews as an opportunity to check them out. I was in a midwest city for internship and of all the many places I've lived, it's my second favorite (my most favorite being my current location). It was an absolute blast and a total surprise- did not fit my preconceptions. So much to do and if it weren't for the distance from my family and the brutal winter I would have stayed. I was in a definitely less than desirable city for grad school, but was so busy that frankly it made very little difference to my overall happiness level - even though there was less to do around town that interested me overall, I had less time to do it, so my free time was easily filled with fun and novel adventures and if you look you can always find similarly-minded people anywhere you go. My spouse, on the other hand, detested the city but he had a lot more down time than I did and it was not a very biking/running/vegetarian friendly kinda place so it did affect his overall happiness level. But next time you get to the point of deciding where to apply (e.g., if you're ever applying for round 3, or internsihp / post doc) I encourage you to keep an open mind about location! Good luck!

I wish I could've visited more of the US before I applied but winters worse than the place I currently am now is really a no go. In extremely cold weather I get breathing difficulties, temperature migraines that last for days and terrible seasonal depression and the coldest I can tolerate for long periods is Tri-state weather. Worse than that will take a few months of getting used to :/ (I'm from the Caribbean and adjusting to temperature shifts takes more than a few seasons) and I don't have any family/friends there to make it tolerable. There are many factors I didn't elaborate in my previous posts and some of the middle states would be fine if I didn't have to take into account the impact of weather that cold would have on the quality of my work. For mid southern states/bible belt where its warmer I don't have much of an excuse, I messed up there not investigating the schools more. Thanks though! I have a mini phone interview with chapel hill so hopefully it leads to an official interview/acceptance and I can pass this info onto other students so they don't make a similar mistake!

 

[singasongofjoy]

I wish I could've visited more of the US before I applied but winters worse than the place I currently am now is really a no go. In extremely cold weather I get breathing difficulties, temperature migraines that last for days and terrible seasonal depression and the coldest I can tolerate for long periods is Tri-state weather. Worse than that will take a few months of getting used to :/ (I'm from the Caribbean and adjusting to temperature shifts takes more than a few seasons) and I don't have any family/friends there to make it tolerable. There are many factors I didn't elaborate in my previous posts and some of the middle states would be fine if I didn't have to take into account the impact of weather that cold would have on the quality of my work. For mid southern states/bible belt where its warmer I don't have much of an excuse, I messed up there not investigating the schools more. Thanks though! I have a mini phone interview with chapel hill so hopefully it leads to an official interview/acceptance and I can pass this info onto other students so they don't make a similar mistake!

I can def understand that about the weather. After spending one ill-conceived year in NYC wherein I learned very hard lessons about how to actually dress for cold weather (and manage cold-triggered asthma), I scurried back down to my native south and restricted my grad school search to no further north than Virginia, lol. I think you sound like a strong applicant - good luck!

 

[doc_dreaming]

Hey all! I'm pretty new to these forums and have been incredibly impressed with the applicant pool posting on here. Y'all are making me feel a little doubtful about my own applications, and I would love to hear your thoughts on my stats. Regardless of how the next few weeks plays out with interviews and decisions, I feel humbled to be a part of this shockingly capable bunch. Best of luck to all!

GRE: V 164, Q 158, AW 5

Undergraduate gpa (from top school): 3.63

Psych gpa: 3.76

Master's gpa (msw): 3.94

Research experience: 6 months undergraduate research experience, 2.5 years post-graduate research experience on NIH funded study

Conferences: 5 conference presentation credits (2nd author), 1 poster, 1 oral presentation at national conference as 1st author

Publications: 1 article accepted for publication, 1 manuscript in preparation

Related job experience: I currently work as a grant writer for a mental health nonprofit, preparing for years of grant writing in the research world!

Clinical experience: 9 months as substance abuse counseling intern for adults with hiv/aids, 2 years as co-founder of a social intervention program in under-resourced schools, 1 year as a therapy intern at a nonprofit, 9 months as a therapeutic case management intern at a non-profit.

Because I have a partner who is limited geographically with work, I applied primarily to coastal schools (which will make the admissions process much more competitive, I know).

Any thoughts about my chances?




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[psych.meout]

Hey all! I'm pretty new to these forums and have been incredibly impressed with the applicant pool posting on here. Y'all are making me feel a little doubtful about my own applications, and I would love to hear your thoughts on my stats. Regardless of how the next few weeks plays out with interviews and decisions, I feel humbled to be a part of this shockingly capable bunch. Best of luck to all!

GRE: V 164, Q 158, AW 5

Undergraduate gpa (from top school): 3.63

Psych gpa: 3.76

Master's gpa (msw): 3.94

Research experience: 6 months undergraduate research experience, 2.5 years post-graduate research experience on NIH funded study

Conferences: 5 conference presentation credits (2nd author), 1 poster, 1 oral presentation at national conference as 1st author

Publications: 1 article accepted for publication, 1 manuscript in preparation

Related job experience: I currently work as a grant writer for a mental health nonprofit, preparing for years of grant writing in the research world!

Clinical experience: 9 months as substance abuse counseling intern for adults with hiv/aids, 2 years as co-founder of a social intervention program in under-resourced schools, 1 year as a therapy intern at a nonprofit, 9 months as a therapeutic case management intern at a non-profit.

Because I have a partner who is limited geographically with work, I applied primarily to coastal schools (which will make the admissions process much more competitive, I know).

Any thoughts about my chances?




Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

You seem to have a very competitive resume and really the only thing holding you back might be your geographic inflexibility and fit with mentors and programs. Even some of the best applications end up not getting offers because they restricted themselves to geographically desirable areas, which can also cause the fit to suffer.

To which specific programs did you apply?

 

[Ochem 32]

I'm an undergrad about to take a gap year and considering med school for psychiatry or grad school for clinical psychology (leaning towards psyD). I understand they are very different, but was just curious how strong my application is for a psyD program. Here's my info:

GPA: 3.78 (also keep in mind I'm pre-med so it's a lot of hard science classes)
Psych GPA: 4.0

GRE: Haven't taken yet, but would like to know chances assuming I do well on it, so let's leave that out for now.

Research Experience: I did one semester my 2nd year, but then quit because it wasn't the right lab for me, and I simply wasn't enjoying it. I also was told research wasn't required for med school, so I didn't feel bad about leaving.

However, this year (my 4th year) I decided I wanted to try research again. So I've done one semester so far with a different lab and it was a much better fit! The faculty over the lab has even told me he is going to write me a great letter of recommendation. I'm continuing working with him on my capstone this semester. So I see a good letter of recommendation there, but my concern is with the little time I've actually been in the lab. In total, it will be an entire year with the lab when I graduate.

Extra: I was the president of my schools NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) chapter for 2 years and am the vice president this year. I've heard schools don't really care as much about these types of things as say research or clinical experience, but I think it shows I have dedication.

Also, I have the opportunity to find a job during my gap year that would give me some more clinical or practical experience if needed.

Thanks!

 

[psych.meout]

I'm an undergrad about to take a gap year and considering med school for psychiatry or grad school for clinical psychology (leaning towards psyD). I understand they are very different, but was just curious how strong my application is for a psyD program.

What do you want to do for a career?

Where do you want to work? Do you want to be a researcher, a clinician, a professor, etc?

Why are you "leaning towards" PsyD programs instead of PhD ones?

Here's my info:

GPA: 3.78 (also keep in mind I'm pre-med so it's a lot of hard science classes)
Psych GPA: 4.0

GRE: Haven't taken yet, but would like to know chances assuming I do well on it, so let's leave that out for now.

I understand the caveat here, but be careful about assuming you will do well on the GRE. Many others here can tell you about their struggles with it despite performing well in undergrad.

Research Experience: I did one semester my 2nd year, but then quit because it wasn't the right lab for me, and I simply wasn't enjoying it. I also was told research wasn't required for med school, so I didn't feel bad about leaving.

However, this year (my 4th year) I decided I wanted to try research again. So I've done one semester so far with a different lab and it was a much better fit! The faculty over the lab has even told me he is going to write me a great letter of recommendation. I'm continuing working with him on my capstone this semester. So I see a good letter of recommendation there, but my concern is with the little time I've actually been in the lab. In total, it will be an entire year with the lab when I graduate.

You say you've been in your current lab for one semester, but then say that you will be there for a year by the end of this semester. Do you mean one calendar year or one school year?

What exactly were your responsibilities in your first lab and what are they in your current one? Will you be able to get on a poster or publication before the end of the semester? Would it be possible to continue on in the lab after graduating or would you be able to find an RA position elsewhere?

Extra: I was the president of my schools NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) chapter for 2 years and am the vice president this year. I've heard schools don't really care as much about these types of things as say research or clinical experience, but I think it shows I have dedication.

Also, I have the opportunity to find a job during my gap year that would give me some more clinical or practical experience if needed.

Thanks!

Clubs like that aren't bad, but they aren't much either. Even actual clinical experience comes with diminishing returns after a short while, so if you are interested in doctoral programs in psychology, you should focus more on getting substantive research experience.

 

[Ochem 32]

I want to work in a hospital and am mainly interested in diagnosing mental illness but also treatment obviously. I thought medicine would be the best route for that because I've personally been helped more by medicine than counseling. Not just that, but I feel like my characteristics are more suited for that as well.
I was leaning towards psyD because it is my back up option to med school and I heard phD is extremely competitive. I don't think it makes sense to attempt something so competitive if it's my back up plan.

I meant I'll be in the lab one full school year. My responsibilities mainly included testing participants and scoring/data entry. Nothing too big but I feel like it was still an enriching experience I can expound upon. Do you think it would be more worthwhile to aim for a research oriented job during my gap year or a medical scribe job?

So all things considered, are my chances looking favorable? Is more research an absolute must? Would an average GRE score be okay or is that an area where I could get by? Just trying to gauge where I'm at and what I should really focus on.

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[psych.meout]

I want to work in a hospital and am mainly interested in diagnosing mental illness but also treatment obviously. I thought medicine would be the best route for that because I've personally been helped more by medicine than counseling. Not just that, but I feel like my characteristics are more suited for that as well.
I was leaning towards psyD because it is my back up option to med school and I heard phD is extremely competitive. I don't think it makes sense to attempt something so competitive if it's my back up plan.

The non-competitive programs, whether they are PhDs or PsyDs, are ones that are unfunded and have poor outcomes (e.g. low accredited internship match rates, poor EPPP pass rates, low licensure rates, low pay, etc.). You really don't want to attend any of these programs. Even in fully funded programs, it's still quite difficult and substantially different from med school, e.g. much more research-focused. This is why grad school in clinical psych might not be great simply as a "backup plan" if you can't get into med school.

I meant I'll be in the lab one full school year. My responsibilities mainly included testing participants and scoring/data entry. Nothing too big but I feel like it was still an enriching experience I can expound upon. Do you think it would be more worthwhile to aim for a research oriented job during my gap year or a medical scribe job?

If you really want to attend a good doctoral program in clinical psych, always do a research job.

So all things considered, are my chances looking favorable? Is more research an absolute must? Would an average GRE score be okay or is that an area where I could get by? Just trying to gauge where I'm at and what I should really focus on.

Thanks for the feedback!

Your GPA is good, but you should still always shoot for the highest GRE score possible, because you don't really know how individual programs utilize different pieces of data like that in applications. Research experience will definitely be one of the biggest things, though, which feeds into one of the other biggies, fit. Clinical psych programs usually focus on a mentor model, as opposed to med schools. Thus, you not only need an impressive application package, but also a good fit with the interests and foci of at least one faculty member per program who would be your mentor throughout grad school.

 

[Ochem 32]

The non-competitive programs, whether they are PhDs or PsyDs, are ones that are unfunded and have poor outcomes (e.g. low accredited internship match rates, poor EPPP pass rates, low licensure rates, low pay, etc.). You really don't want to attend any of these programs. Even in fully funded programs, it's still quite difficult and substantially different from med school, e.g. much more research-focused. This is why grad school in clinical psych might not be great simply as a "backup plan" if you can't get into med school.



If you really want to attend a good doctoral program in clinical psych, always do a research job.



Your GPA is good, but you should still always shoot for the highest GRE score possible, because you don't really know how individual programs utilize different pieces of data like that in applications. Research experience will definitely be one of the biggest things, though, which feeds into one of the other biggies, fit. Clinical psych programs usually focus on a mentor model, as opposed to med schools. Thus, you not only need an impressive application package, but also a good fit with the interests and foci of at least one faculty member per program who would be your mentor throughout grad school.

Thanks for the advice. Taking that into consideration, I think I will just give it my best shot at medical school and if I don't get in anywhere then I'll reassess at that point.

 

[bluedots]

Hi

I am a little worried about how likely it is for me to be accepted into a psy.d program or phd but I am leaning more towards psy.d. Ive had a job at the psych dept.s graduate program office just doing clerical work my first year. I have been a peer mentor for 1st generation freshmen where I was paired up with one student and did check ins. I am now in a research lab where I have been a research assistant for 3 separate studies just running participants. I have 2 internships now, one at a outpatient clinec and the other at an inpatient place. I also was a student assistant for a childrens day care that was coordinated through a psych class which is known as fieldwork. I am also a ta for a psych course this yr. I have had numerous basic jobs such as in food service and on campus jobs. I am worried that I wont be accepted into a good program since I do not have enough research experience, I have not done a thesis. Also I am really upset that my gpa is only a 3.1 and at most can only go up to a 3.2 What would you say my chances would be for getting in grad school for a psy.d or maybe even a phd. What would you recommend for my next steps. Also what should I aim for my gre scores. I am primarily interested in working with adults and maybe adolescents who have mood disorders and anxiety issues. Are there any specific programs that you would suggest? Thank you in advance for your time and help, greatly appreciate it!

 

[singasongofjoy]

Not knowing what GRE score you will achieve, I think at this point your GPA is the weakest link. You can look up average GRE scores for doctoral psych programs in whatever that book is that gets published every 2 years of program stats (I'm sure someone on this board knows the name but you can probably find it with a quick google). That book might also have average GPAs mentioned- I'm not sure. You don't mention what year you are in school but (not trying to burst your bubble, but it's always good to have a reasonable Plan B) you might consider going for a master's degree after undergrad because 1) that might be enough for what you want to do - could enable you to work with adults and adolescents on mood/anxiety, or 2) could make you a stronger applicant for a good program (prove you can handle graduate-level work by bringing up your GPA).

 

[echo3alpha]

I just interviewed with a professor at a college in Illinois. We hit it off really, really well, and a couple times during the interview he said "...come do your research with me..." When he asked if I had any questions, I smiled wryly asked if he just extended an offer of admission. He smiled and said that he unfortunately didn't have the authority to extend an offer. He then said, "Let me put it this way; if you choose to attend this school, come do your research with me." Maybe I'm being naive, or maybe I'm just being humble, but I'm not quite sure how to take those comments. Any insight is appreciated.

 

[ArmyPsychologist]

WAMC?
Applying for PsyD programs in clinical psychology. I intend on becoming an Army Psychologist.
Presenting a paper at a research conference in a month and a half for a replication study of which I have been a central part. I have experience working as a RA in a medical research lab.

Undergraduate GPA: 3.43
GRE Verbal: 159 (82nd percentile)
GRE Quant: 144 (17th percentile)- will be retaking GRE soon to raise this score
AW: 4.5 (59th percentile)

LOR: 1 Research supervisor "W", PhD
Captain "W", US Army (debating on using this individual or a professor of mine)
Professor "L", PhD
MSG "K", US Army (again, would only include this reference if it would help)

Applying at:
Marshall University
Argosy Minnesota
Argosy Orange County
Argosy Washington DC
Regent University
Pacific University- Oregon
Alliant- San Francisco
The Wright Institute

WAMC with the current numbers? Say I raise my GRE quant to 150, how helpful would that be?

Thanks guys. I am at a crossroads right now- on the brink of competence, barely competitive enough to apply to any of these schools but not so outmatched that I'm not willing to try. Very discouraged, but I am not throwing in the towel yet. Lay it on me thick- should I consider a different career path? Remember I am applying to PsyD, not PhD programs.

 

[singasongofjoy]

I just interviewed with a professor at a college in Illinois. We hit it off really, really well, and a couple times during the interview he said "...come do your research with me..." When he asked if I had any questions, I smiled wryly asked if he just extended an offer of admission. He smiled and said that he unfortunately didn't have the authority to extend an offer. He then said, "Let me put it this way; if you choose to attend this school, come do your research with me." Maybe I'm being naive, or maybe I'm just being humble, but I'm not quite sure how to take those comments. Any insight is appreciated.

My advice is don't get your hopes up and you won't be disappointed. If you haven't heard anything from him about an offer in a week or so, could be that 1) he's not the only one making the decisions about who gets offers to that particular program, so he REALLY doesn't have the authority to make you an offer, or 2) he's one of those folks who makes similar comments to most people for whatever reason (a poor attempt to set people at ease? a history of making offers that don't get accepted in the past and so a shortage of students in his lab so he really wants anyone who gets an offer to feel super enthusiastic? who knows). I haven't had the experience but I know of people from my program who had similar experiences while applying to grad school and postdocs and didn't get offers. Not to say you won't-- you very well may hear good news in the near future -- but I guess I'm trying to say don't take it personally or too hard if you don't. It's unlikely the decision is entirely up to one person.

 

[singasongofjoy]

WAMC?
Applying for PsyD programs in clinical psychology. I intend on becoming an Army Psychologist.
Presenting a paper at a research conference in a month and a half for a replication study of which I have been a central part. I have experience working as a RA in a medical research lab.

Undergraduate GPA: 3.43
GRE Verbal: 159 (82nd percentile)
GRE Quant: 144 (17th percentile)- will be retaking GRE soon to raise this score
AW: 4.5 (59th percentile)


Applying at:
Marshall University
Argosy Minnesota
Argosy Orange County
Argosy Washington DC
Regent University
Pacific University- Oregon
Alliant- San Francisco
The Wright Institute

WAMC with the current numbers? Say I raise my GRE quant to 150, how helpful would that be?
.

Your research experience is an asset. True, your GRE quant score needs to be higher, though I'm more familiar w/ PhD than PsyD programs. Also wanted to chime in to say consider the big picture and don't sell your future short by going to a non-funded program that is going to put you hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt with poor job prospects. I often see ppl on this forum feeling like they aren't strong applicants but they want to go to school RIGHT NOW and aren't willing to wait a year or two to better their chances, so they end up at programs that put them at a disadvantage upon entering the job market, and early career psychologists can make OK money, but you're not going to be crazy rich right out the gate, that's for sure. Make sure you do your outcomes research on programs before you even bother applying because if you're going to be 200k+ in the hole with a hard time getting licensed, or a hard time getting a military internship or position at the VA to complete your degree, most folks would tell you it's not worth it and would be better in the long run to take the time to make yourself a more competitive applicant for programs with more funding and stronger outcomes data. I'm not familiar with the outcomes for all of the places you are applying - just make sure you do your homework. Info should be easily available for all APA approved programs. With regard to your GRE- def try to bring the quant up. You might also consider studying really hard for the subject test and blowing it out of the water if you think you could do that. Sure, go ahead and apply this year - maybe you'll get in! But if you don't get into a good program that you're excited about this year, no big deal- maybe then you can get info from the interviewers about what would make you a stronger applicant and then take a year to put those recs to work. Lots of people apply 2 or even 3 rounds before going to school. So if it does happen that you don't get in this round, keep your chin up I think it helps to have a plan B just in case, even if you have a reasonably good shot at getting in somewhere - make me less anxious during interviews to have an alternate plan. Good luck!

 

[psych.meout]

WAMC?
Applying for PsyD programs in clinical psychology. I intend on becoming an Army Psychologist.
Presenting a paper at a research conference in a month and a half for a replication study of which I have been a central part. I have experience working as a RA in a medical research lab.

Undergraduate GPA: 3.43
GRE Verbal: 159 (82nd percentile)
GRE Quant: 144 (17th percentile)- will be retaking GRE soon to raise this score
AW: 4.5 (59th percentile)

LOR: 1 Research supervisor "W", PhD
Captain "W", US Army (debating on using this individual or a professor of mine)
Professor "L", PhD
MSG "K", US Army (again, would only include this reference if it would help)

Applying at:
Marshall University
Argosy Minnesota
Argosy Orange County
Argosy Washington DC
Regent University
Pacific University- Oregon
Alliant- San Francisco
The Wright Institute

WAMC with the current numbers? Say I raise my GRE quant to 150, how helpful would that be?

Thanks guys. I am at a crossroads right now- on the brink of competence, barely competitive enough to apply to any of these schools but not so outmatched that I'm not willing to try. Very discouraged, but I am not throwing in the towel yet. Lay it on me thick- should I consider a different career path? Remember I am applying to PsyD, not PhD programs.

Your Verbal GRE is quite good and your GPA isn't terrible by any means, but I think you'd need to raise your Quant GRE to something higher than 150, as it's only the 39th percentile, with your current GPA. I don't think there's much room to have more than one of these three (VGRE, QGRE, and GPA) quantitative qualifications to be sub-optimal. Some programs, especially those that are more selective (e.g. those that get over 200 applications for less than ten actual spots in their cohorts), get so many applications in general and so many from people with stellar GREs and GPAs that they can afford to be picky when it comes to these stats. They will focus even more on your non-academic qualifications, especially research experience and productivity, and some even literally screen out applications with substantially lower GPAs and GREs. So, try to significantly improve your quant GRE, but even then your actual transcript might be a confounding variable. If you have a trend of general improvement of your grades over your undergrad career, especially performing well at higher level, advanced courses, that may actually offset your cumulative GPA not being stellar. Conversely, if your GPA tanked because you had difficulty with higher level psych courses, it might hurt you even more, because they might have reservations about your ability to do graduate level coursework, which is qualitatively different and more difficult than undergrad courses.

As for your research experience, what did you actually do in this research? Were you just coding and entering data or did you make more substantial contributions to the projects, e.g. helping conceptualize the studies and design the protocols, applying the protocols to subjects, analyzing the data, writing the manuscript, etc.? The more profound, advanced, and independent your contributions were, the better it will be for your applications. It indicates that your more capable at performing research than those who make more minimal contributions. It would be great to get pubs and posters from your research as well, but again, it's about what you actually did. First or second author would be great, but if you're the last of ten authors on your undergrad advisor's paper and did not do much other than data entry, it wouldn't help you much at all.

Your research experience is an asset. True, your GRE quant score needs to be higher, though I'm more familiar w/ PhD than PsyD programs. Also wanted to chime in to say consider the big picture and don't sell your future short by going to a non-funded program that is going to put you hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt with poor job prospects. I often see ppl on this forum feeling like they aren't strong applicants but they want to go to school RIGHT NOW and aren't willing to wait a year or two to better their chances, so they end up at programs that put them at a disadvantage upon entering the job market, and early career psychologists can make OK money, but you're not going to be crazy rich right out the gate, that's for sure. Make sure you do your outcomes research on programs before you even bother applying because if you're going to be 200k+ in the hole with a hard time getting licensed, or a hard time getting a military internship or position at the VA to complete your degree, most folks would tell you it's not worth it and would be better in the long run to take the time to make yourself a more competitive applicant for programs with more funding and stronger outcomes data. I'm not familiar with the outcomes for all of the places you are applying - just make sure you do your homework. Info should be easily available for all APA approved programs. With regard to your GRE- def try to bring the quant up. You might also consider studying really hard for the subject test and blowing it out of the water if you think you could do that. Sure, go ahead and apply this year - maybe you'll get in! But if you don't get into a good program that you're excited about this year, no big deal- maybe then you can get info from the interviewers about what would make you a stronger applicant and then take a year to put those recs to work. Lots of people apply 2 or even 3 rounds before going to school. So if it does happen that you don't get in this round, keep your chin up I think it helps to have a plan B just in case, even if you have a reasonably good shot at getting in somewhere - make me less anxious during interviews to have an alternate plan. Good luck!

Another thing to note is that they said they want to become a psychologist in the US Army, which they would likely argue would partially, if not completely, offset the costs of one of these expensive PsyD (redundant?) programs. The problem with that logic is it assumes that they would actually be able to direct commission into the Army. A lot can happen over the course of the (at least) five years it takes to get a degree, including developing physical and medical problems that might disqualify one from commissioning, especially as officers have higher standards than enlisted personnel. It seems somewhat risky to place hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt upon a long-term bet like that. It's somewhat like graduates from unfunded PsyD and PhD programs planning on getting jobs in the VA or other public service organizations to qualify for debt forgiveness programs. You don't know if that money and those programs will actually still be available when you graduate, especially in this political climate.

 

[Lolzyfun]

WAMC?

• Education
  • Cumulative GPA: 3.35 (pretty even though-out college career)
  • Psychology GPA: 3.5

• Research
  • 2.5 years as RA. 1 poster presentation (hopefully another this May) and 1 2nd author publication. Was very translational but little to do with clincial psych.
  • 1 year as RA. Ran participants/set up suveys/very invested in lab. Possibly a pub or 2 depending on how this research turns out (but don't know if it will be done before I graduate, or even in the review process).

• Clinical
  • 90+ hours in crisis nursery
  • Going to have 1 year applied work (taking a year off before I apply).

• References
  • 2 very very strong letters of rec (one professor made the comment that I was the best RA he has had in his career, very respected tenured professor).
  • Graduate student I worked with (now with PHD).

• GRE (The aspect in which I am most worried & embarrassed about and would likely hinder my chances of acceptance)
  • Haven't taken it yet. Studying for year. Hope to do well. I know I need to kill this to make up for GPA.

My main question is the following: should I even try to apply for a PHD in clinical? I am very skeptical about my chances of getting in. I'm wondering if getting a masters in MSW then possibly moving onto the PHD track is a better option.

 

[singasongofjoy]

WAMC?

• Education
  • Cumulative GPA: 3.35 (pretty even though-out college career)
  • Psychology GPA: 3.5

• Research
  • 2.5 years as RA. 1 poster presentation (hopefully another this May) and 1 2nd author publication. Was very translational but little to do with clincial psych.
  • 1 year as RA. Ran participants/set up suveys/very invested in lab. Possibly a pub or 2 depending on how this research turns out (but don't know if it will be done before I graduate, or even in the review process).

• Clinical
  • 90+ hours in crisis nursery
  • Going to have 1 year applied work (taking a year off before I apply).

• References
  • 2 very very strong letters of rec (one professor made the comment that I was the best RA he has had in his career, very respected tenured professor).
  • Graduate student I worked with (now with PHD).

• GRE (The aspect in which I am most worried & embarrassed about and would likely hinder my chances of acceptance)
  • Haven't taken it yet. Studying for year. Hope to do well. I know I need to kill this to make up for GPA.

My main question is the following: should I even try to apply for a PHD in clinical? I am very skeptical about my chances of getting in. I'm wondering if getting a masters in MSW then possibly moving onto the PHD track is a better option.

Hard to say w/o GRE scores what your probable chances are. If you're going to take a year off, it would be great if you could find a way to get some research into that year as well, as opposed to only applied work. Prepare well for the GRE. In your situation my plan would be apply, and if you don't get in that year, reassess whether you want to get a master's first, or apply again the next round, taking into account any feedback you get from places you interviewed if they are willing to give you some after the fact.

 

[psych.meout]

WAMC?

• Education
  • Cumulative GPA: 3.35 (pretty even though-out college career)
  • Psychology GPA: 3.5

• Research
  • 2.5 years as RA. 1 poster presentation (hopefully another this May) and 1 2nd author publication. Was very translational but little to do with clincial psych.
  • 1 year as RA. Ran participants/set up suveys/very invested in lab. Possibly a pub or 2 depending on how this research turns out (but don't know if it will be done before I graduate, or even in the review process).

• Clinical
  • 90+ hours in crisis nursery
  • Going to have 1 year applied work (taking a year off before I apply).

• References
  • 2 very very strong letters of rec (one professor made the comment that I was the best RA he has had in his career, very respected tenured professor).
  • Graduate student I worked with (now with PHD).

• GRE (The aspect in which I am most worried & embarrassed about and would likely hinder my chances of acceptance)
  • Haven't taken it yet. Studying for year. Hope to do well. I know I need to kill this to make up for GPA.

My main question is the following: should I even try to apply for a PHD in clinical? I am very skeptical about my chances of getting in. I'm wondering if getting a masters in MSW then possibly moving onto the PHD track is a better option.

Why a master's in social work?

Why do you want to get a PhD? What do you want to do that requires a PhD, especially if you're looking at a MSW as an intermediate step?

I'll also echo what singasongofjoy wrote. The GRE is an important factor to determining what your chances of getting into a good program would be. Your GPA isn't horrible, but it's also not great, so you need to make up for it with either great GRE scores or maybe an experimental master's where you can demonstrate academic ability and get more research experience.

The issue with getting more clinical experience at this stage of your career is that most of the experience available with just a bachelor's degree isn't advanced enough to give you much of an edge in admissions. There are some available, especially psychometry if you're interested in neuropsychology, but these are few and far between and highly in demand for other prospective grad students.

 

[Jackicanyounot]

Undergrad GPA: 3.4 (double major psych and sociology)
Psych GPA: 3.7
Grad GPA: 3.5 (MS in clinical health psych)
Currently hold temporary limited license, working full time.
GRE: 309 cumulative, both above 50%, 82% AW
Research experiences: 2.5 years (undergrad assistantship, independent masters thesis with community sample, primary author)
1 poster presentation, 1 thesis presentation
1 full year full time clinical work in traumatic brain injury and PHP stabilization group therapy
Practicum provided strong assessment background. Primary experiences has been working with people with disabilities and CMH.

I am applying for psyd programs because my passion is therapy and assessment, not research and I fear even if it is funded, I am not competitive enough for PhD programs that I will just come to hate.
Applied to 7 schools, 4 interview offers. 1 in waiting. 2 No's from schools whose deadline was before my re-take of the GRE.

 

[psych.meout]

Undergrad GPA: 3.4 (double major psych and sociology)
Psych GPA: 3.7
Grad GPA: 3.5 (MS in clinical health psych)
Currently hold temporary limited license, working full time.
GRE: 309 cumulative, both above 50%, 82% AW
Research experiences: 2.5 years (undergrad assistantship, independent masters thesis with community sample, primary author)
1 poster presentation, 1 thesis presentation
1 full year full time clinical work in traumatic brain injury and PHP stabilization group therapy
Practicum provided strong assessment background. Primary experiences has been working with people with disabilities and CMH.

I am applying for psyd programs because my passion is therapy and assessment, not research and I fear even if it is funded, I am not competitive enough for PhD programs that I will just come to hate.
Applied to 7 schools, 4 interview offers. 1 in waiting. 2 No's from schools whose deadline was before my re-take of the GRE.

That dichotomy of PhD programs being for producing researchers and PsyD programs as being for clinicians isn't accurate.

 

[Jackicanyounot]

That dichotomy of PhD programs being for producing researchers and PsyD programs as being for clinicians isn't accurate.

Ive seen that from this thread but I am more concerned with the labor intensive dissertation. I did not enjoy my masters thesis process.

 

[smoriarity16]

WAMC?

GPA: 3.9 undergrad & psychology
GRE Scores: 149 Verbal; 144 Quant; 4.5 Analytical

Research Experience:

I currently work as a Research Assistant through Dartmouth College/Dartmouth-Hitchcock Medical Center. We are investigating the effectiveness of Integrating Combined Therapies for Co-Occurring Disorders with Substance Abuse, and evaluating treatment services in the state of Vermont.
I had a year and a half of research courses, which included being a TA for Research I course after I completed it myself. I presented a poster at the Eastern Psychological Association in NYC last year, and presented two more times at conferences at Castleton University. I was also a TA for the Introductory to Psychology course.

I received two academic references and a professional reference from my current employer. I've applied to Appalachian State University (M.A) and East Tennessee State University (Ph.D), each to their Experimental Psychology programs. This is my first time applying to graduate school. I'm really interested in research and would want to enter academia afterwards. I would just like to know if I should just start applying to more programs, start looking at a different career, or feel better about the fact I applied.

Thanks for your advice!

 

[psych.meout]

Ive seen that from this thread but I am more concerned with the labor intensive dissertation. I did not enjoy my masters thesis process.

But do you understand why theses and dissertations are typically required in doctoral programs? Even if you just want to do clinical work after you get licensed, these milestones are important aspects of training you to be a good clinician. They inform on clinical practice by making you a better consumer of extant research literature. They also make you more empirically-oriented so that you are always using the best practices that are backed by evidence and research. They aren't making your suffer through something difficult and which you hate, because they want to inflict the same hardships they went through or because they just want to train researchers.

If you're so dead set on being a clinician and not doing any research training, especially not a dissertation, then maybe a master's degree and licensure for it might be best for you.

 

[psych.meout]

WAMC?

GPA: 3.9 undergrad & psychology
GRE Scores: 149 Verbal; 144 Quant; 4.5 Analytical

Research Experience:

I currently work as a Research Assistant through Dartmouth College/Dartmouth-Hitchcock Medical Center. We are investigating the effectiveness of Integrating Combined Therapies for Co-Occurring Disorders with Substance Abuse, and evaluating treatment services in the state of Vermont.
I had a year and a half of research courses, which included being a TA for Research I course after I completed it myself. I presented a poster at the Eastern Psychological Association in NYC last year, and presented two more times at conferences at Castleton University. I was also a TA for the Introductory to Psychology course.

I received two academic references and a professional reference from my current employer. I've applied to Appalachian State University (M.A) and East Tennessee State University (Ph.D), each to their Experimental Psychology programs. This is my first time applying to graduate school. I'm really interested in research and would want to enter academia afterwards. I would just like to know if I should just start applying to more programs, start looking at a different career, or feel better about the fact I applied.

Thanks for your advice!

It's hard to gauge your chances, because experimental programs are so different from clinical, counseling, and school psychology programs. Experimental programs aren't required to publish the stats of their admitted students like the APA requires of clinical programs, so we can't really see how you compare to students these particular programs have admitted. There's also so much variance from program to program in every discipline that it's difficult to generalize how the "average" admitted student compares to those of these particular programs.

 

[smoriarity16]

It's hard to gauge your chances, because experimental programs are so different from clinical, counseling, and school psychology programs. Experimental programs aren't required to publish the stats of their admitted students like the APA requires of clinical programs, so we can't really see how you compare to students these particular programs have admitted. There's also so much variance from program to program in every discipline that it's difficult to generalize how the "average" admitted student compares to those of these particular programs.

Thank you. I guess I'll just have to wait and see. I did experimental programs because I don't want to do clinical, I would rather be in academia if I ever get a Ph.D. But that's looking like a big if....
But thanks anyways..

 

[psych.meout]

Thank you. I guess I'll just have to wait and see. I did experimental programs because I don't want to do clinical, I would rather be in academia if I ever get a Ph.D. But that's looking like a big if....
But thanks anyways..

You should also look at other types of psychology doctoral programs, e.g. Social, cognitive, behavioral neuroscience. Even clinical psychology programs will get you into academia, you'd just have to suffer through the clinical training while in the program and then be a researcher and faculty for your career.

 

[Jackicanyounot]

But do you understand why theses and dissertations are typically required in doctoral programs? Even if you just want to do clinical work after you get licensed, these milestones are important aspects of training you to be a good clinician. They inform on clinical practice by making you a better consumer of extant research literature. They also make you more empirically-oriented so that you are always using the best practices that are backed by evidence and research. They aren't making your suffer through something difficult and which you hate, because they want to inflict the same hardships they went through or because they just want to train researchers.

If you're so dead set on being a clinician and not doing any research training, especially not a dissertation, then maybe a master's degree and licensure for it might be best for you.

I do understand, and am more drawn to doing years of internship clinical experience rather than quantitative research. I understand I will be doing more research, I just have a preference to more practical application. Skills that I wish to acquire and polish would require evaluation to make me a better practitioner. I have other reasons for not wishing to stay at the masters level, for I am so limited that I cannot even go back home and work because there is no reciprocity.

I'm interested in an objective evaluation of my chances on furthering my career. Having to defend myself leaves me disheartened.

 

[psych.meout]

I do understand, and am more drawn to doing years of internship clinical experience rather than quantitative research. I understand I will be doing more research, I just have a preference to more practical application. Skills that I wish to acquire and polish would require evaluation to make me a better practitioner. I have other reasons for not wishing to stay at the masters level, for I am so limited that I cannot even go back home and work because there is no reciprocity.

There is plenty of "practical application" of clinical psychology in PhD programs. Many faculty do translational or treatment research.

I'm interested in an objective evaluation of my chances on furthering my career. Having to defend myself leaves me disheartened.

You're "defending" yourself, because your distaste for doing research is incompatible with proper doctoral training in clinical psychology. Receiving proper research training is not simply some sort of obstacle to just endure and overcome, because it's getting in the way of the clinical training you want.

I am applying for psyd programs because my passion is therapy and assessment, not research and I fear even if it is funded, I am not competitive enough for PhD programs that I will just come to hate.

It's an important part of your education to train you to be a good consumer of research even if you are in an entirely clinical position. This is not to say that you need to love stats and research and want to be a career researcher. It just means that research is always going to be an important component of your job as a clinician and searching for an end-run around it by attending a program where research takes a back seat (often to the point of neglect) is to the detriment of your education, your career, and your qualifications as a clinician.

 

[smoriarity16]

You should also look at other types of psychology doctoral programs, e.g. Social, cognitive, behavioral neuroscience. Even clinical psychology programs will get you into academia, you'd just have to suffer through the clinical training while in the program and then be a researcher and faculty for your career.

I have looked at those too, thanks. I just do not have funds to apply to 10 or more schools.

I was just hoping that I have a solid enough background to get into a program. I am struggling finding a career with just a B.A so I know if I want this degree to even be worth it I have to receive a higher one.

But thank you anyways.

 

[singasongofjoy]

I'm a bit confused. You say that you don't want to get a master's degree because... why? Because from what you've indicated so far, it sounds like MSW would be up your alley. Prob still some research related work (I actually have no idea, I have never looked at MSW programs, but as stated above understanding what makes good research and how to interpret it is important to being a good clinician) but mostly clinical, and I've yet to meet an LCSW who has had trouble finding work. A masters is still a level up from a BA which is what you have now... why is it that you're not willing to consider?

 

[smoriarity16]

I'm a bit confused. You say that you don't want to get a master's degree because... why? Because from what you've indicated so far, it sounds like MSW would be up your alley. Prob still some research related work (I actually have no idea, I have never looked at MSW programs, but as stated above understanding what makes good research and how to interpret it is important to being a good clinician) but mostly clinical, and I've yet to meet an LCSW who has had trouble finding work. A masters is still a level up from a BA which is what you have now... why is it that you're not willing to consider?

I'm sorry, that is not what I meant. I'm not interested in an MSW or LCSW, it's just not for me. I do want to get a higher degree. I would love to be a researcher, which is why I am trying to get a Master's and/or Ph.D so that I can pursue that dream. I guess you can say I am more of a nerd than real-world application kind-of-person.

I am saying that currently, with only a B.A. in Psychology, it is nearly impossible to find positions that interest me. I got lucky with the job I have now. I am just discouraged because due to the advice that's given on this site, it seems I'm not qualified enough to get accepted to a program. That is all. Thanks.

 

[psych.meout]

I'm sorry, that is not what I meant. I'm not interested in an MSW or LCSW, it's just not for me. I do want to get a higher degree. I would love to be a researcher, which is why I am trying to get a Master's and/or Ph.D so that I can pursue that dream. I guess you can say I am more of a nerd than real-world application kind-of-person.

I am saying that currently, with only a B.A. in Psychology, it is nearly impossible to find positions that interest me. I got lucky with the job I have now. I am just discouraged because due to the advice that's given on this site, it seems I'm not qualified enough to get accepted to a program. That is all. Thanks.

But there are things you can do to improve your chances to get into a research-oriented program.

Firstly, you need to retake the GRE. As I wrote earlier, I'm not super knowledgeable of non-clinical programs in psychology, but a 149 (42%) GRE-V and 144 (17%) GRE-Q probably isn't going to cut it. Academic and faculty positions are scarce as it is, as opposed to grads of clinical programs who can find many jobs as primarily or solely clinicians, so programs can afford to be picky and screen out people with GRE scores that low.

Secondly, you need to beef up your research CV. You do have some good preliminary research experience, but if you're looking to be a researcher as a career, you need to have more experience and productivity to demonstrate your aptitude for research. You wrote earlier that you already have an RA job, which is a good start. You should either ask for increased responsibilities at your current position (with the hope that you could get something published) or find a new one where you can perform progressively more advanced research.

 

[Jet_Jaguar]

I want to work in a hospital and am mainly interested in diagnosing mental illness but also treatment obviously. I thought medicine would be the best route for that because I've personally been helped more by medicine than counseling. Not just that, but I feel like my characteristics are more suited for that as well.
I was leaning towards psyD because it is my back up option to med school and I heard phD is extremely competitive. I don't think it makes sense to attempt something so competitive if it's my back up plan.!

If you're interested in working in a hospital setting diagnosing and treating mental illness you might also want to consider being a psychiatric nurse practitioner. Very similar scope of practice to a psychiatrist and the programs are not competitive at all. Average salaries are high (lower than doctor, higher than clinical psychologist) and the market is absolutely starved for them. You'd have to go into a 3 year graduate entry program, but after that there's no residency and you can start work immediately (this is a plus and minus for some, many NP's describe their first job as being very stressful). The biggest caveat is that you need to be in a collaborative agreement with a physician in most states to prescribe medication, but these agreements are pretty lax. It's not like the physician will be looking over your shoulder monitoring what you do.

If you're interested in further education you can get a DNP (clinical doctorate) with 2 more years of school or a PhD.

It's a really good field right now, and I feel like many in psych don't know about it.

 

[singasongofjoy]

I'm sorry, that is not what I meant. I'm not interested in an MSW or LCSW, it's just not for me. I do want to get a higher degree. I would love to be a researcher, which is why I am trying to get a Master's and/or Ph.D so that I can pursue that dream. I guess you can say I am more of a nerd than real-world application kind-of-person.

I am saying that currently, with only a B.A. in Psychology, it is nearly impossible to find positions that interest me. I got lucky with the job I have now. I am just discouraged because due to the advice that's given on this site, it seems I'm not qualified enough to get accepted to a program. That is all. Thanks.

Thanks for the clarification. If you're interested in research programs, you're definitely going to have to bring your GRE quant well above the 17th percentile. As psych.meout said I'd also strengthen the research experience prior to applying. But definitely prep for the GRE quant and take again.

 

[singasongofjoy]

If you're interested in working in a hospital setting diagnosing and treating mental illness you might also want to consider being a psychiatric nurse practitioner. Very similar scope of practice to a psychiatrist and the programs are not competitive at all. Average salaries are high (lower than doctor, higher than clinical psychologist) and the market is absolutely starved for them.

@Ochem 32 +1 to the above - I agree there's a definite shortage of psychiatric nurses in all the states I have worked. Worth considering.

 

[psych.meout]

If you're interested in working in a hospital setting diagnosing and treating mental illness you might also want to consider being a psychiatric nurse practitioner. Very similar scope of practice to a psychiatrist and the programs are not competitive at all. Average salaries are high (lower than doctor, higher than clinical psychologist) and the market is absolutely starved for them. You'd have to go into a 3 year graduate entry program, but after that there's no residency and you can start work immediately (this is a plus and minus for some, many NP's describe their first job as being very stressful). The biggest caveat is that you need to be in a collaborative agreement with a physician in most states to prescribe medication, but these agreements are pretty lax. It's not like the physician will be looking over your shoulder monitoring what you do.

If you're interested in further education you can get a DNP (clinical doctorate) with 2 more years of school or a PhD.

It's a really good field right now, and I feel like many in psych don't know about it.

You say this like it's a good thing. Do you really think it's a good or safe idea to have scope of practice creep to the point of someone with marginally more training than a nurse having responsibilities and prescription privileges on par with many physicians, but "lax" supervision from said physicians?

 

[Jet_Jaguar]

@psych.meout

I wasn't really trying to make a qualitative statement beyond that it is a profession for which semi-independent prescriptive authority is an option. I'll grant you that there should probably be additional training; the ANA knows this too, and is trying to make the 5-year DNP the entry-level degree. In addition to this, more and more nurse practitioner residency programs are popping up across the country, so as the scope of practice 'creeps' it appears that credential creep will occur in-kind.

In terms of 'lax' supervision, NP's are pretty independent and are not dangerous in-practice. There is little-to-no research supporting that enlarging the scope of practice for nurse practitioners endangers patients. The vast majority of the literature suggests that nurse practitioners are safe, cost-effective, and personable primary care providers. Research shows no impact on health outcomes when patients are treated with an NP vs an MD, along with higher levels of patient satisfaction and lower levels of cost. Given our shortage of doctors and the rising costs and shrinking access of healthcare that many have, NPs are a great asset to our health service.

I'm really not trying to argue with you, especially since I don't want to derail this thread. I'm just presenting the current evidence as I understand it.

 

[LPPSYD]

I do understand, and am more drawn to doing years of internship clinical experience rather than quantitative research. I understand I will be doing more research, I just have a preference to more practical application. Skills that I wish to acquire and polish would require evaluation to make me a better practitioner. I have other reasons for not wishing to stay at the masters level, for I am so limited that I cannot even go back home and work because there is no reciprocity.

I'm interested in an objective evaluation of my chances on furthering my career. Having to defend myself leaves me disheartened.

Devil's advocate here. I came from a Psy.D. program and often wondered if my experience of my thesis and dissertation would have actually been easier and more enjoyable had I had years of working within a research lab, particularly if my research projects grew out of that work. I came to this realization after interning with two Ph.D.s and getting a glimpse of their experiences. Also disagree that you will have any less clinical experience, this is in fact a myth about the two degrees. I get that it's frustrating to hear this type of feedback but many of us wish we knew then what we know now.

 

[Rashawn12]

Hello,

I was just curious if anyone would know how to strengthen my chances at getting into a clinical PhD program. I am preparing to apply this Fall and would like to get in now if I can. I don't want to take any more time off. I will likely apply to counseling psychology PhD programs as well.

I graduated from Kent State University (May 2016) with a B.S. in psychology.
Undergrad GPA: 3.85
Psych GPA: 3.9

I worked in a child attachment lab my sophmore/junior year and another lab my junior/senior year.
I completed an honors thesis and also made a poster, which I won an award for at our undergraduate research day.

My senior year I also worked fulltime at a neurofeedback facility which gave me significant clinical experince. I also had crisis line training in my undergrad.

Currenly, I'm in Pittsburgh working as research specialist. I am an author on a book chapter, 2 publications coming out soon, as well as a couple more posters.

My only concern now is my GRE scores which are less than stellar (I did not prepare/study well). I'm taking it again this month hoping I can bump up my score but I've never been good at testing. I'm likely going to retake it again this summer.

Any suggestions on what to do next? I really don't want the GRE to hold me back.

Thank you,

J

 

[WisNeuro]

Post up in the sticky WAMC thread.

 

[Rashawn12]

I can't figure out how to start a new thread in WAMC thread. Am I missing something?