Vets & Restraint? Questions

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WorldClassNeurosurgeon

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Hello all,
So I have one last question. Currently I am a vet tech. I do a lot of restraint in client rooms because, well, the doctor needs to do an exam & later in the back, blood work ect...

I hate restraint. I love my job but its the one thing that stresses me out to no end everyday. So my question is as follows:

I am setting in my applications for the year to over ten vet schools. I have great experience & high grades and GRE.

Do vets really restrain all that much? Ik we might have To here & there in school but it cant be anywhere as much as a tech. I get so stressed from it. I dont want to get bit and i dont want the dr to get hurt.

I have great academic skills. Im book smart and love procedural medicine. Im super interested in surgery...is it possible to sort of have a restraint free career for the most part? It's really the only thing that bogs me down

Please let me know your thoughts all.

Thanks:)

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Yes, I restrain frequently as a vet but not near as much as I did as a tech.

I also don't have techs in the exam room with me so I've learned how to do a mix of an exam and restrain at the same time. If the animal is obviously nervous or aggressive then I don't examine them in a room and have a tech help with them in treatment.

Restraint will always be a part of the job. And as a vet you'll be responsible for yourself, your tech, your patient and the owner's safety. You'll likely have some part in teaching new techs as well. And you'll need to know when restraint just isn't going to cut it and when to resort to sedation.
 
I understand,
I mean I dont mind it once in a blue moon but if im going to go to medical school i dont want to be holding down fractious animals every single second. I'm interested in specializing. I mean I work with doctors that I never see restrain but we have room tech's.

I don't know how to handle that aspect of the job. I'm literally fine with everything else. It's just really really stressful for me. What are the ways to deal with this occupational stress? I tried running,exercise, reading . i just wish I wasn't feeling like this cause i love everything else.

I haven't been a tech for a long time so maybe that's why but Ive seen a lot of vets that almost never restrain. I just want to figure this out. I'm so passionate about medicine. I think animals are really cool. The disease sort of scares me away. Im wondering if the fear of rabies is doing it. I'm vaccinated and all but you know...that doesn't mean you're safe...
 
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I understand,
I mean I dont mind it once in a blue moon but if im going to go to medical school i dont want to be holding down fractious animals every single second. I'm interested in specializing. I mean I work with doctors that I never see restrain but we have room tech's.

I don't know how to handle that aspect of the job. I'm literally fine with everything else. It's just really really stressful for me. What are the ways to deal with this occupational stress? I tried running,exercise, reading . i just wish I wasn't feeling like this cause i love everything else.

I haven't been a tech for a long time so maybe that's why but Ive seen a lot of vets that almost never restrain. I just want to figure this out. I'm so passionate about medicine. I think animals are really cool. The disease sort of scares me away. Im wondering if the fear of rabies is doing it. I'm vaccinated and all but you know...that doesn't mean you're safe...

Practice. Practice and practice.

Getting used to proper restrain and learning methods to deal with aggressive animals is what helps.

And most people in this field get bit at some point. We do everything we can to minimize that risk but it happens still sometimes.
 
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Yes
And I think for right now that's all I can do. I guess I'm just trying to figure out if I'm going to have to really be restraining a lot as a vet. Want to be able to go to work and only worry about my techs getting bit. I know that sounds selfish but it's the one part of the field I really want to do less of. Once or twice every couple of days is one thing but as a clinical tech I see from 16-25 pets a day....very stressed out since most of them need 4dx nail trim or shots at best.

You know? Id rather have an emotionally stressful career as I've delt with in thr past rather than a physical one if that sense. Im much better at handling emotional stress.
 
Yes
And I think for right now that's all I can do. I guess I'm just trying to figure out if I'm going to have to really be restraining a lot as a vet. Want to be able to go to work and only worry about my techs getting bit. I know that sounds selfish but it's the one part of the field I really want to do less of. Once or twice every couple of days is one thing but as a clinical tech I see from 16-25 pets a day....very stressed out since most of them need 4dx nail trim or shots at best.

You know? Id rather have an emotionally stressful career as I've delt with in thr past rather than a physical one if that sense. Im much better at handling emotional stress.

You do realize that bites can happen to the person not restraining, right? That just by never restraining doesn't mean you're eliminating your risk of being bit.

Actually 3 of the 4 times I've been bit I wasn't restraining and it wasn't because of lack of restraint on someone else's part either.
 
I do understand that, but typically it's the tech that has more risk because they are moving the patient constantly, cutting nails, doing blood, doing rads, putting caths in, holding for the doctor. If I got bit 5-10 times in my career I wouldn't be mad. I just don't want to be holding down dogs and cats all day everyday and trying to make sure they're not going crazy or biting other people. I often think that it might not be just the biting part but rather the physical stress that holding something like a german shepherd or even a dashhound that's really squirmy and trying to bite puts me under. In these cases, I am physically and constantly thinking about being bitten rather than actually doing my job if that makes sense?
 
I do understand that, but typically it's the tech that has more risk because they are moving the patient constantly, cutting nails, doing blood, doing rads, putting caths in, holding for the doctor. If I got bit 5-10 times in my career I wouldn't be mad. I just don't want to be holding down dogs and cats all day everyday and trying to make sure they're not going crazy or biting other people. I often think that it might not be just the biting part but rather the physical stress that holding something like a german shepherd or even a dashhound that's really squirmy and trying to bite puts me under. In these cases, I am physically and constantly thinking about being bitten rather than actually doing my job if that makes sense?

Dachshund, we laugh at clients that say "dash hound".

I think you need more experience. No, you will not be constantly restraining or restraining as much as a vet as a tech does. BUT you are responsible for the safety of those techs so you need enough experience to know when to resort to sedation and when restraint will work. You also need to know what kind of restraint. And while you might not be trimming nails, you will be palpating limbs, digits, etc while someone restrains. You like surgery... orthopedics? You will be seeing a whole heck of a lot of German Shepherds and Dachshunds. They are known for orthopedic/neurologic problems that require surgical intervention. You aren't going to be sedating every one of them. And you will need to have your hands on them. I often feel like my exams are much more intrusive than restraint is to an animal. It almost sounds like you have a fear of dogs, which you really need to address.
 
Also my two dog bites were as follows:

1. Sweet, docile older lab that was there for recurrent vomiting and was painful in the abdomen. Told the other tech not to touch the dog's abdomen. She did touch the abdomen as we were lifting the dog onto the xray table. Dog turned and nipped in response to the pain and caught the tip of my finger in the process.

2. Extremely timid border collie that had never been socialized by the owner. Owner admits that she hasn't taken the dog out of the house in the 5 years she has owned the dog and she had the dog since it was a puppy. We were able to muzzle the dog but unable to get an semblance of restraint on the dog. We had stopped doing anything to the dog, we were just letting him sit there with this muzzle on. The vet went to go talk with the owner and was handing the slip lead over to me, dog jumped up and lunged in that moment. We hadn't touched the dog in 2+ minutes. Dog was able to rip off my finger nail through the muzzle.

3. Got bit while getting a cat out of a carrier. Cat was great. As I was getting the cat out, the carrier slipped and crashed to the floor. Cat spooked.

The vast majority of bites I have had and I have witnessed have not occurred during restraint or have occurred when someone doesn't know how to restrain appropriately. You need to be confident in restraint as a vet because while the techs may mostly do it, you may find yourself in a spot with a newer tech in which you need to demonstrate how you want the dog restrained. Or maybe you are doing something new that even an experienced tech hasn't seen before and you need the dog restrained a specific way, you need to be comfortable with showing your staff what you need and want done.
 
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Hello all,
So I have one last question. Currently I am a vet tech. I do a lot of restraint in client rooms because, well, the doctor needs to do an exam & later in the back, blood work ect...

I hate restraint. I love my job but its the one thing that stresses me out to no end everyday. So my question is as follows:

I am setting in my applications for the year to over ten vet schools. I have great experience & high grades and GRE.

Do vets really restrain all that much? Ik we might have To here & there in school but it cant be anywhere as much as a tech. I get so stressed from it. I dont want to get bit and i dont want the dr to get hurt.

I have great academic skills. Im book smart and love procedural medicine. Im super interested in surgery...is it possible to sort of have a restraint free career for the most part? It's really the only thing that bogs me down

Please let me know your thoughts all.

Thanks:)
Yes, vets do restraint. Unfortunately, restraint is a necessity in all veterinary professions. I am just learning how to do this, but, I have noticed that, when I am calm, the animal is calm. It's all about the energy you give off. If you are worried about getting bitten or scratched, the animal will feel nervous and try to escape because your anxiety makes your behavior unpredictable. On the other hand, when you are calm, it's easy for the animal to predict your behavior because your movements are naturally slower and more purposeful. I hope this makes sense. Watch the Dog Whisperer or Cesar 911 on Nat Geo Wild. He demonstrates this all the time.

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These are all interesting occurrences. I suppose you are right. It's probably some type of animal anxiety related to the consequences of bites that I've had in the past. I have better restraint experience now but still things happen when you meet new animals.

I feel that I've had a lot of negative experiences in the clinic despite being a calm and collected tech. I don't understand why this wasn't a problem before. I feel much more confident when an e-cone is used or a muzzle or cat in a blanket. Most of my clinical appointments include an animal that I dont know & they seem nervous cause they're at the vet. I understand there's always challenges but maybe it's been bad lately cause im in clinic and seeing 15-25 dogs rather than 5 or 6 treatment patients..

Infact...
My best shifts are in treatment. I have a much better time when im working in the back. It's not cause of the clients but maybe the number of animals and all the people helping me.

In the rooms it's just me and the vet. That can be daunting.

Thank you for your insight
 
I rarely restrain patients anymore (maybe once a month or so?), however I am a surgery resident. Most specialists don't do a lot of restraining because they are either working at a referral practice (with plenty of techs to go around usually), or an academic institution (where you have students AND techs to restrain for you). GPs certainly still will have to restrain animals on a routine basis.
 
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Yes, vets do restraint. Unfortunately, restraint is a necessity in all veterinary professions. I am just learning how to do this, but, I have noticed that, when I am calm, the animal is calm. It's all about the energy you give off. If you are worried about getting bitten or scratched, the animal will feel nervous and try to escape because your anxiety makes your behavior unpredictable. On the other hand, when you are calm, it's easy for the animal to predict your behavior because your movements are naturally slower and more purposeful. I hope this makes sense. Watch the Dog Whisperer or Cesar 911 on Nat Geo Wild. He demonstrates this all the time.

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Thank you
It's true. Ive been trying to be calm its probably anxiety
 
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I rarely restrain patients anymore (maybe once a month or so?), however I am a surgery resident. Most specialists don't do a lot of restraining because they are either working at a referral practice (with plenty of techs to go around usually), or an academic institution (where you have students AND techs to restrain for you). GPs certainly still will have to restrain animals on a routine basis.


I think a surgical speciality & residency will be much better geared for me...unfortunately I'm going to have to do the rest of the year with restraint & some in vet school before I get there. I hope to have a restraint free career more or less. I'm academic minded. This is why in the long run GP care might not be for me. Specialists are paid more sometimes too:)
 
.....If I got bit 5-10 times in my career I wouldn't be mad......In these cases, I am physically and constantly thinking about being bitten rather than actually doing my job if that makes sense?

Drugs are your friend. If an animal is that difficult and dangerous to restrain, no one should be doing restraint unless the patient is drugged -- that animal needs sedation or anesthesia. Or someone's not restraining properly ;) In my opinion, getting bit 10 times in one's career is too often; I think if it's happening more than once every few years, it's too much - at least if you're working with pets. (OK, I guess it depends on how long your career is.)

I am a vet who does exams without someone to restrain for me about 90% of the time, but that's because most of the time the animal doesn't need restraint. Of course things like blood draws and x-rays do require restraint. I am never in a position of doing something while worried about being bitten because I plan ahead, and because if I don't trust the person restraining for me, I sedate.
 
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Thank you
It's true. Ive been trying to be calm its probably anxiety
That's the problem. You'll never calm down if you try to be calm. You have to ALLOW yourself to be in a calm state, and "try" doesn't allow "calm."

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I rarely restrain patients anymore (maybe once a month or so?), however I am a surgery resident. Most specialists don't do a lot of restraining because they are either working at a referral practice (with plenty of techs to go around usually), or an academic institution (where you have students AND techs to restrain for you). GPs certainly still will have to restrain animals on a routine basis.

I am not in academia but I am in a referral practice that from an operational standpoint is very similar to academia.

I agree with everything DVMD and SocialStigma said, but I'd add one thing:

I may not restrain <as often> as a vet ...... but frequently, when I have to, it's because I'm the end of the line, responsible for whatever happens, and there's a reason I'm stepping in. So as a vet, you may get stuck with the tough ones; especially if your practice doesn't have a dog/cat whisperer.

Thank you
It's true. Ive been trying to be calm its probably anxiety

You being anxious will just make the situation worse because the animal will pick it up and feel even more strongly that there is reason to be afraid.

Drugs are your friend. If an animal is that difficult and dangerous to restrain, no one should be doing restraint unless the patient is drugged -- that animal needs sedation or anesthesia. Or someone's not restraining properly ;) In my opinion, getting bit 10 times in one's career is too often; I think if it's happening more than once every few years, it's too much - at least if you're working with pets. (OK, I guess it depends on how long your career is.)

Amen to all of that. Drugs are your friend - and they are the animal's friend. Obviously the primary reason we sedate an unmanageable patient is for our safety, but it's also so we can do a better exam, and it's for the patient's safety and emotional well-being. Everybody wins with appropriate sedation, barring some super rare adverse effect from the drugs.

I also agree that getting bit 10 times is too often. At least, as a generalized statement.

I also do most of my exams without restraint. Part of it is putting the animal at ease, and everyone has their own style. I am a floor sitter (so long as I feel it's safe). I don't bend down over the dog (how frightening for the patient!), and I almost never put them on a scary table. I also take what they give me - I never look at what hurts first, and if they don't really like their face examined, I leave it until last. If they hate their <whatever> being touched, I leave it alone until I have to. No sense burning bridges with the animal just because you feel some obligation to do your exam in precisely the same order every time no exceptions. I quite regularly get feedback from clients that they are surprised at the positive interaction and that their regular DVM has to wrangle their dog, or their dog hates the RDVM, or ... etc. The less wrangling you do with most patients, the better, so long as you recognize which ones are safe to approach that way. Think how you'd react if you went into your doctor and they promptly wrapped their arms around you and squeezed tight so you couldn't move, started randomly forcing your head and limbs this way and that, brutishly pulled your mouth open, etc. It's a wonder our patients are as well-behaved as they are.

One thing about a surgical residency ... you still will have to do exams. And remember - a pretty good percentage of them will be patients with very, very painful stifles. ;)

The best thing you can do is a) don't push it - if they need sedation, they need it, b) learn to be calm - being nervous won't help you, and it will hurt you, c) pay really close attention to which techs are super good at restraint and which are just so-so, and then match them as needed to challenging animals.

And finally ... sometimes you just can't win. You think the animal is great and doesn't need sedation, and it's behaving well, and then bam - it snaps. If it's a once in a blue moon type of thing that happens with a tech who usually does an excellent job restraining .... it's just life. Don't go all guns hot on the tech - letting you get bit will be punishment enough for him/her if they actually know their job and usually do well. The techs to work with are the ones who routinely don't restrain in appropriate ways or with appropriate attention.

That's the problem. You'll never calm down if you try to be calm. You have to ALLOW yourself to be in a calm state, and "try" doesn't allow "calm."

Ok Mr. Myagi. :)
 
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But, it's not always safe to sedate a patient, either, and, and sedatives can skew certain test results.

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But, it's not always safe to sedate a patient, either, and, and sedatives can skew certain test results.

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I think any animal that is in danger from being sedated is also in danger from being so wound-up and fearful (and aggressive). If a cat is going to collapse and stop breathing from a sedative, I think it's more likely that it will collapse and stop breathing from anxiety, IMO. And yes, it can skew some results.....but excessive restraint, along with anxiety and aggression, can also skew certain test results.
 
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But, it's not always safe to sedate a patient, either, and, and sedatives can skew certain test results.

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In my experience, the vast majority of patients can be sedated safely, even if it means using a different drug or reducing the dose you normally use. Every single patient that comes in through orthopedics gets sedation for radiographs, because it's pretty much impossible to take perfect orthogonal views otherwise, and without that we can't measure TPAs and plan for surgery. Even the ones with cardiac disease get sedated (they just don't get any dexmedetomidine). The other day I sedated a dog with a grade V/VI heart murmur with pulmonic stenosis! It was scary and not something I like doing routinely, but often it's safer for the patient that you're able to do what you need to do quickly and without them struggling the entire time.
 
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I think any animal that is in danger from being sedated is also in danger from being so wound-up and fearful (and aggressive). If a cat is going to collapse and stop breathing from a sedative, I think it's more likely that it will collapse and stop breathing from anxiety, IMO. And yes, it can skew some results.....but excessive restraint, along with anxiety and aggression, can also skew certain test results.
True. My epileptic dachshund has to be sedated every time she goes to the vet to prevent stress-induced generalized seizures, but, I make sure she's safe by not giving her anything to eat or drink 12 hours before giving her the sedative (alprazolam) on top of her regular antisiezure medication (zonisamide).

The reason I brought this up is that, when I was doing a job shadow at a vet clinic, someone brought in a large pit bull who had eaten a whole bunch of styrofoam. To ensure that he was able to pass the styrofoam, the veterinarian on staff decided to do an upper GI barium study. This dog completely freaked out, and it took three people to restrain him. He fought the staff all the way from his cage to the X-ray table every time, even holding onto the doorway to the X-ray room. I asked them why they did sedate him, and they said doing so would have slowed down his motility, skewing the results, as well as possibly contributing to the formation of a GI obstruction.

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True. My epileptic dachshund has to be sedated every time she goes to the vet to prevent stress-induced generalized seizures, but, I make sure she's safe by not giving her anything to eat or drink 12 hours before giving her the sedative (alprazolam) on top of her regular antisiezure medication (zonisamide).

The reason I brought this up is that, when I was doing a job shadow at a vet clinic, someone brought in a large pit bull who had eaten a whole bunch of styrofoam. To ensure that he was able to pass the styrofoam, the veterinarian on staff decided to do an upper GI barium study. This dog completely freaked out, and it took three people to restrain him. He fought the staff all the way from his cage to the X-ray table every time, even holding onto the doorway to the X-ray room. I asked them why they did sedate him, and they said doing so would have slowed down his motility, skewing the results, as well as possibly contributing to the formation of a GI obstruction.

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There are always exceptions to everything. Generalization is hard but necessary for most discussions. In the end, sedation is usually needed to prevent injury to both the animal and those around them, and the benefits outweigh the risks.
 
Yes, vets do restraint. Unfortunately, restraint is a necessity in all veterinary professions. I am just learning how to do this, but, I have noticed that, when I am calm, the animal is calm. It's all about the energy you give off. If you are worried about getting bitten or scratched, the animal will feel nervous and try to escape because your anxiety makes your behavior unpredictable. On the other hand, when you are calm, it's easy for the animal to predict your behavior because your movements are naturally slower and more purposeful. I hope this makes sense. Watch the Dog Whisperer or Cesar 911 on Nat Geo Wild. He demonstrates this all the time.

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tumblr_mwqahaR91Q1rh2tw8o1_400.gif
 
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Yes, vets do restraint. Unfortunately, restraint is a necessity in all veterinary professions. I am just learning how to do this, but, I have noticed that, when I am calm, the animal is calm. It's all about the energy you give off. If you are worried about getting bitten or scratched, the animal will feel nervous and try to escape because your anxiety makes your behavior unpredictable. On the other hand, when you are calm, it's easy for the animal to predict your behavior because your movements are naturally slower and more purposeful. I hope this makes sense. Watch the Dog Whisperer or Cesar 911 on Nat Geo Wild. He demonstrates this all the time.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Not mine :banana:
 
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But, it's not always safe to sedate a patient, either, and, and sedatives can skew certain test results.

Ultimately, that doesn't usually matter too much.

You have to (or should) examine your patient.

They are either safe to do this without sedation, or you should be sedating them. If sedating them carries a risk because of their health status (or because their health status is unknown), human safety should STILL trump that, and they should be either sedated (after a discussion with the owner about the risks), or they should be treated without a full exam and potentially without appropriate diagnostics (also after discussion with the owner).

You should NEVER be compromising human safety and putting someone at risk just because you're afraid to sedate the patient. The PATIENT should absorb that risk (in the form of an incomplete exam/diagnostics or in the form of sedation in the face of the risk); not the medical staff treating the patient.

To be sure it's not 100% black/white and it's always an individual evaluation with every patient, but if you find yourself saying "man, this patient really needs sedation to treat appropriately ... but I'm going to go ahead and do my exam without because I'm worried about the effects of the drugs" .... my opinion is that that's inappropriate.

And, given the drugs available today, sedation can almost always be done with a very high degree of safety, even in a very ill patient.
 
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There are always exceptions to everything. Generalization is hard but necessary for most discussions. In the end, sedation is usually needed to prevent injury to both the animal and those around them, and the benefits outweigh the risks.

(And in any case, I personally would have sedated the dog in the example he gave. Sedation isn't going to effect GI motility <that> much, and it certainly isn't going to lead to an obstruction that otherwise wasn't going to happen. Not with the right choices of drugs. It's possible they didn't have good sedative options at the clinic that example happened at. Not to take away from your point, which still stands.)
 
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Ultimately, that doesn't usually matter too much.

You have to (or should) examine your patient.

They are either safe to do this without sedation, or you should be sedating them. If sedating them carries a risk because of their health status (or because their health status is unknown), human safety should STILL trump that, and they should be either sedated (after a discussion with the owner about the risks), or they should be treated without a full exam and potentially without appropriate diagnostics (also after discussion with the owner).

You should NEVER be compromising human safety and putting someone at risk just because you're afraid to sedate the patient. The PATIENT should absorb that risk (in the form of an incomplete exam/diagnostics or in the form of sedation in the face of the risk); not the medical staff treating the patient.

To be sure it's not 100% black/white and it's always an individual evaluation with every patient, but if you find yourself saying "man, this patient really needs sedation to treat appropriately ... but I'm going to go ahead and do my exam without because I'm worried about the effects of the drugs" .... my opinion is that that's inappropriate.

And, given the drugs available today, sedation can almost always be done with a very high degree of safety, even in a very ill patient.
Well, the said dog was able to be safely restrained with the help of a muzzle and several staff members.

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Well, the said dog was able to be safely restrained with the help of a muzzle and several staff members.

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If you need "several staff members" to restrain the dog.... that isn't safe restraint. But I am also not sure what the vet was thinking of or what drugs she/he had at her/his disposal and maybe using several staff members was the better option in this case.

But no, you shouldn't need more than 2 staff members to take radiographs on a dog and if it starts to become a fighting mess, best to get out the drugs. Much easier on the patient, your staff and yourself.
 
(And in any case, I personally would have sedated the dog in the example he gave. Sedation isn't going to effect GI motility <that> much, and it certainly isn't going to lead to an obstruction that otherwise wasn't going to happen. Not with the right choices of drugs. It's possible they didn't have good sedative options at the clinic that example happened at. Not to take away from your point, which still stands.)

The choice of drugs in sedation/anesthesia for scoping and barium studies varies a lot as far as I can tell. Some gastroenterology specialists are adamant that some drugs can affect GI motility to the point of skewing results, others say it really isn't that big of a deal. It seems to be mostly a result of where you were trained/who trained you.
 
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Well, the said dog was able to be safely restrained with the help of a muzzle and several staff members.

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Then it didn't need sedation. I don't understand your point.

It's pretty simple. You can either safely restrain an animal without sedation, or you can't and it should be sedated.

The point is: However you examine an animal, it should always be done with an eye toward minimizing the risk to the humans involved. If there is a fractious animal threatening to bite somebody, you shouldn't be saying "aw shucks, we'll have to risk it, because this patient has some underlying condition that makes sedation risky." That's just dumb. You can definitely opt not to sedate that patient due to the risk concern, but then you also should opt not to examine it as thoroughly, or perform whatever procedure you had intended.
 
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The choice of drugs in sedation/anesthesia for scoping and barium studies varies a lot as far as I can tell. Some gastroenterology specialists are adamant that some drugs can affect GI motility to the point of skewing results, others say it really isn't that big of a deal. It seems to be mostly a result of where you were trained/who trained you.

Our IntMed people do a fair amount of barium studies and a TON of scoping; their opinion is that the drug issue is super overrated.

I can believe it varies depending on who you trained with, but I like our IntMed people and trust them, so Ima go with them. :)
 
Our IntMed people do a fair amount of barium studies and a TON of scoping; their opinion is that the drug issue is super overrated.

I can believe it varies depending on who you trained with, but I like our IntMed people and trust them, so Ima go with them. :)

Most of the younger IM and GI people agree (obviously not my field so I trust their judgement as well). As far as I can tell it tends to be the old school ones who get really antsy over it
 
Then it didn't need sedation. I don't understand your point.

It's pretty simple. You can either safely restrain an animal without sedation, or you can't and it should be sedated.

The point is: However you examine an animal, it should always be done with an eye toward minimizing the risk to the humans involved. If there is a fractious animal threatening to bite somebody, you shouldn't be saying "aw shucks, we'll have to risk it, because this patient has some underlying condition that makes sedation risky." That's just dumb. You can definitely opt not to sedate that patient due to the risk concern, but then you also should opt not to examine it as thoroughly, or perform whatever procedure you had intended.

Well gee this makes sense. My vet office seems to not give a hoot about our safety. I mean my manager does but some of the vets i work with want me to avoid even scruffing certain cats to avoid anger enduced vet visits but there's a lot of times i feel at risk...in fact, surprisingly, it's mostly with dogs. Cats im somehow more comfortable with but dogs can turn at any second it seems esp the small ones. Ive been having a lot of trouble in each room. Im not a fan of GP tbh i miss emergency med where everything has an e collar and catheter then restraint is stesss free for the most part because 9/10 that e cone gives me some space to wrap a blanket or get a secure hold. I hate clinic. Im just hoping when im in vet school i wont be restraining all day long instead of working on the medicine. Im simply putting up with the tech restraint but im more of a Tx/ academic person. I dont know i guess i just need to fix my fear of dogs. It can be scary sometimes im sure youve all seen the sketchball come on. The dog that just looks at you funny.
 
Well gee this makes sense. My vet office seems to not give a hoot about our safety. I mean my manager does but some of the vets i work with want me to avoid even scruffing certain cats to avoid anger enduced vet visits but there's a lot of times i feel at risk...in fact, surprisingly, it's mostly with dogs. Cats im somehow more comfortable with but dogs can turn at any second it seems esp the small ones. Ive been having a lot of trouble in each room. Im not a fan of GP tbh i miss emergency med where everything has an e collar and catheter then restraint is stesss free for the most part because 9/10 that e cone gives me some space to wrap a blanket or get a secure hold. I hate clinic. Im just hoping when im in vet school i wont be restraining all day long instead of working on the medicine. Im simply putting up with the tech restraint but im more of a Tx/ academic person. I dont know i guess i just need to fix my fear of dogs. It can be scary sometimes im sure youve all seen the sketchball come on. The dog that just looks at you funny.

Meh, I tend to not scruff cats, often time pisses them off even more.

The last time I was almost bit by a dog was by one wearing an e-collar. He had no issue making teeth contact to my arm with that cone on. We had completely finished the exam and I was just talking to his owner in the exam room. Luckily she had a good hold on the leash and yanked him back fast, but his teeth grazed my arm.

The thing is, muzzles and e-collars and all of that crap are just added security, any dog can still bite through or around those. The best ways to avoid a bite are to read the dog's body language. Use muzzles early on if you think there may be a problem. Try to do everything at once if you can (TPR, exam, vaccines, nail trims, etc) on the nervous dogs, instead of having a tech mess with the dog for TPR, then Dr do an exam and give vaccines, then the tech mess with them again for nails and anal glands... just do it all at once.

Have a good restrainer... and practice. The best way to avoid a bite is via good restraint and knowing when to pull out the drugs instead. I recently was able to remove staples on the abdomen of a 120# aggressive Rottie that would lunge at us anytime we went into the exam room. We would have to put this dog in a different exam room just to be able to speak with the owner. I did that staple removal by myself without sedation... How? Because I took the time to figure out what makes that dog calm and cooperative.. answer: male owner. If the male owner was present she went from lunging and eating to growling but behaving. Male owner could get on a muzzle and lay her on her side. He could distract her. This isn't advised in every situation and you are taught that you are responsible if the owner gets injured, because you are. But, you do learn that some animals will do better with the owner and some away from the owner. And if you are ever not sure what is the safest route... the answer is drugs. Drugs are your friend if you have a particularly aggressive dog.
 
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The thing is, muzzles and e-collars and all of that crap are just added security, any dog can still bite through or around those. The best ways to avoid a bite are to read the dog's body language. Use muzzles early on if you think there may be a problem.
I'm growing a nail back right now after being nipped by a dog... who had a muzzle on. Wasn't actually aggressive, just had horrible horrible flea allergy dermatitis, secondary skin infections and was very touchy and sensitive (we're talking >50% fur loss, literally crawling with fleas, skin red and inflamed everywhere). My attempt to even do a very minimal exam because he was so touchy led to the tip of my finger getting nailed. **** happens. Just gotta try and minimize it with training, restraint, and drugs.
 
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I'm growing a nail back right now after being nipped by a dog... who had a muzzle on. Wasn't actually aggressive, just had horrible horrible flea allergy dermatitis, secondary skin infections and was very touchy and sensitive (we're talking >50% fur loss, literally crawling with fleas, skin red and inflamed everywhere). My attempt to even do a very minimal exam because he was so touchy led to the tip of my finger getting nailed. **** happens. Just gotta try and minimize it with training, restraint, and drugs.

Yup, that's how I lost my nail, dog nipped through muzzle. Rather amazing what they can do even with a muzzle on.
 
Why does it seem like I'm the only one who finds this aspect of the field stressful and intolerable. I can't tell you how much I love the medicine stuff but when it comes to doing anything, restraint is my only issue. I dont mean to sound like an uncaring person but I had a dog pass away in my arms as we were trying to save him. It was sad but I didnt think twice about it but holding him down while he's trying to bite me..my only issue w this field.

Again maybe it's cause I'm in clinic & restraining every 5 min
 
Why does it seem like I'm the only one who finds this aspect of the field stressful and intolerable.

Again maybe it's cause I'm in clinic & restraining every 5 min

I think the majority of those replying don't necessarily find restraint to be a fun time. But having it be intolerable it's kinda just something we all have to work through. I think that's what's everyone is trying to say. We don't really have the luxury of having it be intolerable.

In vet school, you'll have to restrain, no doubt. Depending on where you work after you graduate, you'll have to restrain (as several vets have mentioned, it seems to vary).

In the end, I feel it's something you'll have to manage on a mental level. As some have said, practice restraining in different ways with different doctors if at all possible. Become more comfortable with the situation.
 
Um. Maybe your ER is different than mine, but all I do is ER work and 90% of our patients aren't in an e-collar and we restrain must as much as a GP.
...... This is not an "ER" vs "GP" thing.

I don't think anyone enjoys restraint. But it is part of the job to ensure everyone is as safe as possible.
 
Um. Maybe your ER is different than mine, but all I do is ER work and 90% of our patients aren't in an e-collar and we restrain must as much as a GP.
...... This is not an "ER" vs "GP" thing.

I don't think anyone enjoys restraint. But it is part of the job to ensure everyone is as safe as possible.
Same here, ive worked at many ER/specialty hospitals where only those who needed an e-collar got one. Fractious animals at my residency do often end up with a collar for a little more barrier protection, but even so, that doesn't guarantee safety by a long shot and it certainly doesn't eliminate the need for restraint.

OP, this is a pretty big issue that you need to carefully weigh before you sink a ton of time and money into this career. There are a ton of reasons why vets are unhappy in this career, and you want to make sure this is the best fit for you. Restraint keeps you safe and it keeps the pet safe. You may even but a point in your career where youd prefer to be the restrained because you trust yourself more than others. I work with inexperienced people every day, and it is a major part of my job to make sure that I facilitate a safe and secure working environment to those I am mentoring. Sometimes that means only doctors handle a patient. Sometimes that means I hold while a student does a procedure/obtains samples. Sometimes that means using drugs.

As someone who loved medicine and animals as separate entities and thought how great it would be to combine them, I now wish I had gone the MD route for medicine with animals as a side hobby/passion. I am specializing to maximize the depth of medicine I get to work with, but more and more I am realizing how I am just scratching the surface of medicine and disease in this field. If it didn't come with an associated giant price tag and 4 more years of school, I'd actually probably go back and go to med school at this point.
 
Why does it seem like I'm the only one who finds this aspect of the field stressful and intolerable. I can't tell you how much I love the medicine stuff but when it comes to doing anything, restraint is my only issue. I dont mean to sound like an uncaring person but I had a dog pass away in my arms as we were trying to save him. It was sad but I didnt think twice about it but holding him down while he's trying to bite me..my only issue w this field.

Again maybe it's cause I'm in clinic & restraining every 5 min
I don't find it intolerable but it can be stressful sometimes. I've worked in a clinic where the doctor refused to drug anything for an exam and that was stressful. I would go into exam rooms with our aggressive animals so nervous about being the one who 'let' someone get bitten. However, I think a lot of aggressive animals need to be approached with more understanding rather than frustration. A certain number of these patients are just plain scared. When you get the people who react with body slamming/screaming/getting aggressive right back, it just escalates the situation. And then, some animals are just dicks.

When appropriate, allowing an animal 5-10 minutes to calm down in a dark/quiet room before resuming restraint can do wonders. Gentling talking to an animal and lightly holding it instead of automatically wrestling it down can be all the difference sometimes. I'm also a fan of distraction-if I know an animal is reactive, I'll ask someone to tap it lightly on the face with a pen during vaccines (helps keep fingers away from teeth), tap elsewhere on the dog's body than where it's being poked, whatever. Then there are the animals where nothing you do will work.

It's worth studying up on animal body language/signals, too. I'm not going to necessarily corner and grab a dog who's already whaling at me and tightening his face. Some people still go for it and will come out saying the dog turned with no signal...I'm generalizing here, but there's almost always a signal.

If you're not comfortable restraining, you need to realize that it's part of the job. However, if you're really not comfortable at all, I'd assume that makes everything more dangerous. You really have to commit while restraining and it's a huge amount of trust between the restrainer and other person. You will need to be able to teach restraint in the future, and you can't do that if you can't restrain,
 
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