Veterans, the GI Bill (Ch 30 and 33/ Post-9/11), and Veteran Readiness/Vocational Rehabilitation (Ch 31/VRE)

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I would say to try first using your GI Bill if you have it for you, just to see how your disability affects your schooling.
In theory you COULD use Voc Rehab out of the gate, but not knowing what your current MOS is or how your disability could affect your undergrad or med school classwork could have a huge impact on your approval chances for Voc Rehab.

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I would say to try first using your GI Bill if you have it for you, just to see how your disability affects your schooling.
In theory you COULD use Voc Rehab out of the gate, but not knowing what your current MOS is or how your disability could affect your undergrad or med school classwork could have a huge impact on your approval chances for Voc Rehab.

Thanks for the reply! I'm currently an Avionics Technician (Aircraft Maintenance). I'm taking advantage of Tuition Assistance while I'm still in the service, but I don't know how long that'll last. Also, the condition I'm being MEB'd for is Narcolepsy with Cataplaxey so I definitely wont be able to do my job on the outside.
 
Thanks for the reply! I'm currently an Avionics Technician (Aircraft Maintenance). I'm taking advantage of Tuition Assistance while I'm still in the service, but I don't know how long that'll last. Also, the condition I'm being MEB'd for is Narcolepsy with Cataplaxey so I definitely wont be able to do my job on the outside.
That clarifies things. You're probably going to get rated over 10% and your conditions should confer a SEH-serious employment handicap-which means you'd be eligible for Voc Rehab. I'm not sure if you can apply for the program without yet getting a disability rating though. You may want to plan on GI Bill or out of pocket for undergrad just in case.
Another aspect you need to consider is your disability's impact on your schoolwork and possible future residency and practice implications. If you're set on Psych, make sure you scope out Psychology PhD specializations as well, since those may allow you more flexibility and the post grad schooling is typically funded with scholarships or grants.

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I m bit confused..
So let's say
1- my post 911 runs out during my BA.
2- So I apply for voc rehab and get approved
For ch 31 to finish my BA
3- than, I go to graduate school for Masters.
(Which was not part of the ORIGINAL voc plan)

Can I still continue to use ch 31?
 
I m bit confused..
So let's say
1- my post 911 runs out during my BA.
2- So I apply for voc rehab and get approved
For ch 31 to finish my BA
3- than, I go to graduate school for Masters.
(Which was not part of the ORIGINAL voc plan)

Can I still continue to use ch 31?

Only if the plan approves it. You can certainly have plans changed if your vocational ambitions change, but I imagine it's not particularly easy. This is something to discuss with your case manager (assuming you've already been approved for voc rehab).
 
is it better to use voc rehab first for undergrad, than use post 911 for masters?
 
is it better to use voc rehab first for undergrad, than use post 911 for masters?
You use up your post 911 benefit entitlements in Voc Rehab. You get 48 total months of education without a serious employment handicap and with pre approval by your Voc Rehab counselor. You use your GI Bill month for month.

If you're not sure you'll get approved right off the bat, start with the GI Bill and then go to the Voc Rehab counselor with a proven track record and a solid plan.

Just remember Voc Rehab is an employment plan, and not for education for the sake of a degree. You need to show them why you need a degree for the job you want, and that it is in a growing or stable job field that won't aggravate your disabilities.
 
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I'm curious. If I decide not to use HPSP and don't end up being able to do voc rehab, I'll be using my post-9/11. It looks like my 36 mos would run out about 4-5 months into M-2. Given that normally, if you run out of benefits mid-semester, they'll pay until the end of the term... do they do the same for med school (since it doesn't have "terms" so much as is just one long year?) That is, if my 36 mos of post-9/11 run out partway through M-2, will the rest of M-2 be covered?
 
I'm curious. If I decide not to use HPSP and don't end up being able to do voc rehab, I'll be using my post-9/11. It looks like my 36 mos would run out about 4-5 months into M-2. Given that normally, if you run out of benefits mid-semester, they'll pay until the end of the term... do they do the same for med school (since it doesn't have "terms" so much as is just one long year?) That is, if my 36 mos of post-9/11 run out partway through M-2, will the rest of M-2 be covered?

From what I understand you have to apply for the extension but it should cover it.
 
Anyone know If we can use Voc-rehab and HPSP concurrently?

Nope. Reason being is because to get into HPSP, you have to waive your VA ratings. Once you waive them, you're no longer eligible for Voc Rehab because you need 10% with SEH, or 20% without SEH minimum.
 
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Nope. Reason being is because to get into HPSP, you have to waive your VA ratings. Once you waive them, you're no longer eligible for Voc Rehab because you need 10% with SEH, or 20% without SEH minimum.

I read something about a dude on HPSP that maintained his ratings. Just like with the guard, he had to pay back the summer training and put it on hold when he went active.
 
I read something about a dude on HPSP that maintained his ratings. Just like with the guard, he had to pay back the summer training and put it on hold when he went active.
I'd be curious to read that because it seems the two are antinomic is the sense that physical requirements, particularly for officers, mandates an individual to be "free of impairments" for lack of a better term. At least when I was AD, it was much easier to get in on the enlisted side with something like flat feet than it was to go to OCS.

Since the Army and the VA both use basically the same ratings system, someone with a VA rating would by default qualify for discharge from AD for that same condition. That sets up a scenario where an applicant could in theory use HPSP to get their training, then claim the disability and get an honorable discharge. Then they pick up a VA check for life and, if they managed to squeeze the rating to 30%, get healthcare and retirement benefits from their branch for life. The high cost of this for the military is one of the main arguments they make for denying military entrance to those with pre-existing medical conditions. I personally had to go through a long and arduous waiver just to get onto AD even though a previous surgery clearly proved no impairment to my ability to function as a soldier, just because they are so picky about not having any pre-existing conditions.
 
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I read something about a dude on HPSP that maintained his ratings. Just like with the guard, he had to pay back the summer training and put it on hold when he went active.

This is something I was curious about and looked into when I was starting. The recruiter told me that unless I waived VA, they wouldn't look at me. I also asked a Chap 31 rep about it, and she explained what I posted and esob said.

I've not heard of anyone doing that, and everything I've looked into myself point toward a no.

But if it is, in fact, possible, certainly provide the details/links/etc!
 
This is totally outside the realm of using voc rehab for med school, but I'm wondering if anybody else knows the answer since it directly affects my life...

S/O had Post 9/11 from being on active duty. He transferred 14 months to his daughter who is still young, and 16 months to his ex-wife, who used them.
So, he has 6 months Post 9/11 in his name, 16 used by his ex, and 14 sitting in a pot for his daughter.

He was recently approved for 18 months of voc rehab (12 mos + his 6 remaining Post 9/11, so he would get BAH) for an engineering degree. He would have been able to apply for SEH/more than 48 months of benefits, but it would have drained the 14 months he transferred to his daughter, since they're unused. He, himself, actually hasn't used any of his Post 9/11.

Now S/O is Guard and has the MGIB Guard kicker. He wants to know if he can use his 18 months of voc rehab (w/Post 9/11 rolled in) first, and use his MGIB Guard kicker after, or if he can use the Guard kicker first, and 18 months of voc rehab after, or if there's some kind of rule making either one of these impossible.

Sorry if this is complicated... I've scoured Reddit and some voc rehab forums, but didn't find any good info on this kind of situation. I thought, who might know? SDN nontrads.
Makes me glad I probably won't need to use voc rehab :thumbup:
 
The CFR states that any combination of benefits is 48 months, the only exception being an SEH for Chapter 31. The kicker, as far as I understand it, is only an increase in the $$ they will pay, not an increase in the duration of training for which they will pay.
 
My counselor told me the same. All I'm going off of is what I what I read in this thread. Considering I live in a high cost area I'm assuming the worst for residency because if I actually get the stipend for my designated amount during residency I'll be rolling in tax free money. Better to assume less and plan for that. Suggest you do the same, but I will definitely let you know my experiences.

So just wanted to update folks who might be curious. After a long wait due to my program not being on a approved list. My GI bill enrollment is now in effect and I am awaiting my first retroactive payment (I started residency a while ago, of course). On the VA ebenefits website it has reduced my remained GI bill amount by 12 months, which is the time that my enrollment is certified for. So for all intents and purposes at this point it appears I will be getting the full amount that is remaining on my GI bill, despite my previous use of my vocational rehab bill. Will update further as time goes on if other folks are interested.
 
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So just wanted to update folks who might be curious. After a long wait due to my program not being on a approved list. My GI bill enrollment is now in effect and I am awaiting my first retroactive payment (I started residency a while ago, of course). On the VA ebenefits website it has reduced my remained GI bill amount by 12 months, which is the time that my enrollment is certified for. So for all intents and purposes at this point it appears I will be getting the full amount that is remaining on my GI bill, despite my previous use of my vocational rehab bill. Will update further as time goes on if other folks are interested.

So you are saying they did not deduct your Ch 31 service time from your GI bill benefits? All I can say is someone messed up, because that's not what the VA determined after reviewing GC's memorandum. As of 21 sept 2016, regional processing offices were directed to enter entitlement used under Ch 31 into LTS/BDN (Long Term Solution/Benefits Delivery Network), which is where the data determining your remaining GI bill is pulled from. It's good for you, so definitely consider it a gift.

It doesn't really surprise me though TBH. My VRC recently quit and a new VRC came in and tried to transfer my file to the office which services my school. They kicked it back saying they did not agree with my plan and that it was the original VRC's offices problem to deal with. The new VRC basically told me my old VRC should have gotten supervisory approval before agreeing to my plan (because of the 6 years of benefits) but didn't. However, she then went on to basically say that it was too much work to try to kick me off of the plan, so the plan would stand. :) It just goes to show that sometimes we have to be thankful for the laziness of gov't employees :D
 
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So you are saying they did not deduct your Ch 31 service time from your GI bill benefits? All I can say is someone messed up, because that's not what the VA determined after reviewing GC's memorandum. As of 21 sept 2016, regional processing offices were directed to enter entitlement used under Ch 31 into LTS/BDN (Long Term Solution/Benefits Delivery Network), which is where the data determining your remaining GI bill is pulled from. It's good for you, so definitely consider it a gift.

It doesn't really surprise me though TBH. My VRC recently quit and a new VRC came in and tried to transfer my file to the office which services my school. They kicked it back saying they did not agree with my plan and that it was the original VRC's offices problem to deal with. The new VRC basically told me my old VRC should have gotten supervisory approval before agreeing to my plan (because of the 6 years of benefits) but didn't. However, she then went on to basically say that it was too much work to try to kick me off of the plan, so the plan would stand. :) It just goes to show that sometimes we have to be thankful for the laziness of gov't employees :D

Yes. Pretty much. Perhaps its because much of my vocational rehab was used prior to that 21 Sept 2016 date. Really only had one semester after that date you list as the other semester was already started well before that date.
 
Yes. Pretty much. Perhaps its because much of my vocational rehab was used prior to that 21 Sept 2016 date. Really only had one semester after that date you list as the other semester was already started well before that date.

I talked to an actual VA certifying official and he told me that they have had a few instances similar to yours. In a couple of them, the VA discovered the accounting error and then sought repayment from the veteran. In all cases however, they were eventually able to get the debt waived b/c of all of the mixup. Don't take this as legal advice, but my personal opinion after talking to him is that even if they did discover the error and seek repayment, that you would be able to get it waived.
 
So just wanted to update folks who might be curious. After a long wait due to my program not being on a approved list. My GI bill enrollment is now in effect and I am awaiting my first retroactive payment (I started residency a while ago, of course). On the VA ebenefits website it has reduced my remained GI bill amount by 12 months, which is the time that my enrollment is certified for. So for all intents and purposes at this point it appears I will be getting the full amount that is remaining on my GI bill, despite my previous use of my vocational rehab bill. Will update further as time goes on if other folks are interested.

Thanks for the update! Hopefully this isn't a mix up and have you payback as @esob mentioned. Keep us updated!
 
This is totally outside the realm of using voc rehab for med school, but I'm wondering if anybody else knows the answer since it directly affects my life...

S/O had Post 9/11 from being on active duty. He transferred 14 months to his daughter who is still young, and 16 months to his ex-wife, who used them.
So, he has 6 months Post 9/11 in his name, 16 used by his ex, and 14 sitting in a pot for his daughter.

He was recently approved for 18 months of voc rehab (12 mos + his 6 remaining Post 9/11, so he would get BAH) for an engineering degree. He would have been able to apply for SEH/more than 48 months of benefits, but it would have drained the 14 months he transferred to his daughter, since they're unused. He, himself, actually hasn't used any of his Post 9/11.

Now S/O is Guard and has the MGIB Guard kicker. He wants to know if he can use his 18 months of voc rehab (w/Post 9/11 rolled in) first, and use his MGIB Guard kicker after, or if he can use the Guard kicker first, and 18 months of voc rehab after, or if there's some kind of rule making either one of these impossible.

Sorry if this is complicated... I've scoured Reddit and some voc rehab forums, but didn't find any good info on this kind of situation. I thought, who might know? SDN nontrads.
Makes me glad I probably won't need to use voc rehab :thumbup:
If he had MGIB and then transferred his Post 9/11 he forfeited all benefits that go with MGIB including the kicker.
 
I am at the end of my CH 33 GI/BILL benefits, and will have 16 unused days left in on the program. This is perfect because I just got accepted into the Vocational Rehab Program CH 31 to complete my Biomedical degree last 10 month and when I accepted, they will pay for my medical school plus receive CH33 BAH rate. Also, they will pay for a $5k MCAT training program. It feels great, but until I see my IWRP (plan) with the name of the medical school on it nothing is guarantee. These have been some rough years as a non-traditional student learning after 14 years of service how to live in the "civilian world". I dove into learning all the ins and outs of the benefits that the VA offers for veterans.

- I recommend connecting with the DAV and the WWP
- Get your significant other involved in your programs and maybe apply for Caregiver Program
- Volunteer with the VA early
- Contact old COC leaders and tell them about your goals (LOR)
- Get Ben Krauser's VOC REHAB manual (a $20 investment for a possible $200k benefit)

If you have any questions hit me up. Good luck guys!!!
 
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I am at the end of my CH 33 GI/BILL benefits, and will have 16 unused days left in on the program. This is perfect because I just got accepted into the Vocational Rehab Program CH 31 to complete my Biomedical degree last 10 month and when I accepted, they will pay for my medical school plus receive CH33 BAH rate. Also, they will pay for a $5k MCAT training program. It feels great, but until I see my IWRP (plan) with the name of the medical school on it nothing is guarantee. These have been some rough years as a non-traditional student learning after 14 years of service how to live in the "civilian world". I dove into learning all the ins and outs of the benefits that the VA offers for veterans.

- I recommend connecting with the DAV and the WWP
- Get your significant other involved in your programs and maybe apply for Caregiver Program
- Volunteer with the VA early
- Contact old COC leaders and tell them about your goals (LOR)
- Get Ben Krauser's VOC REHAB manual (a $20 investment for a possible $200k benefit)

If you have any questions hit me up. Good luck guys!!!


Congrats on getting the VRE approval... now get the med school acceptance and get that listed on the IWRP quickly! lol
 
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Hey OP, maybe add above: Hazlewood Act will exempt most of your tuition at public med schools in Texas. HA is for after you use up all your VA benefits. I'm using it now!
Forum won't let me post link but it's easy to google.
 
Hey OP, maybe add above: Hazlewood Act will exempt most of your tuition at public med schools in Texas. HA is for after you use up all your VA benefits. I'm using it now!
Forum won't let me post link but it's easy to google.

Unless it’s been changed (wishful) I believe you have to claim Texas as your state of residence at time of MEPS when starting your military obligation in order to qualify for HA. Although I currently claim my residency in Texas to reflect on my LES, I don’t qualify since I originally enlisted in another state.

If you do however qualify for post 9/11, Voc - Rehab, and HA your setting on a gold-mined!
 
Unless it’s been changed (wishful) I believe you have to claim Texas as your state of residence at time of MEPS when starting your military obligation in order to qualify for HA. Although I currently claim my residency in Texas to reflect on my LES, I don’t qualify since I originally enlisted in another state.

If you do however qualify for post 9/11, Voc - Rehab, and HA your setting on a gold-mined!
That's right. You have to have enlisted from Tx. I have no idea bout Voc Rehab. I used Post 9/11 GIBill for undergrad, HA now. Very blessed.
 
That's right. You have to have enlisted from Tx. I have no idea bout Voc Rehab. I used Post 9/11 GIBill for undergrad, HA now. Very blessed.

Hazlewood FAQs - Texas Veterans Commission

I suppose on the FAQs sheet someone has the possibility to qualify with certain circumstances while “making” Texas an eventual residency location for the recommended time on active duty...not black and white but possible if someone scrolls the questionnaire website. Worth looking into (for myself)
 
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That's right. You have to have enlisted from Tx. I have no idea bout Voc Rehab. I used Post 9/11 GIBill for undergrad, HA now. Very blessed.

Yeah, and this whole thing is questionable. The constitutionality of it was actually challenged by one UH law student and the lower courts found the "point of entry clause" to be unconstitutional (fwiw, it was never part of the original act) and UH was forced to honor Hazelwood for that student. Texas of course appealed and a higher court said it was constitutional. The case was then appealed to the SCOTUS who declined to take it, thus leaving the lower ruling in place. However, even the former attorney general has noted that he didn't think the clause would pass constitutional muster.

The whole point of entry clause is a clear case of bad politicians getting into something that would boost their voter confidence for an election cycle and then punishing vets for the mistake they made of not realizing the implications. As it currently stands, Hazelwood benefits are used predominantly by non-veteran dependents. Many would argue that this flies in the face of the spirit of the act, which was to encourage veterans to train in TX in the hopes that they would stay in TX after graduation and bring the unique skill set that they gained in the military to the TX workforce. Instead, it now predominantly pays to educate students who have zero military experience. Don't get me wrong, it's a nice perk for the kids of those vets, but "being a perk" was not the original intent of the law.

The politicians, not wishing to tell all the veterans to whom they had promised free schooling for their kids to, decided to add the "point of entry" clause to stave off some costs. In the end, it has had very little effect on the cost and has only served to inflict the opposite effect of what Hazelwood was originally intended to do: keep veterans and their skill sets in the TX workforce.

//rant off
 
As it currently stands, Hazelwood benefits are used predominantly by non-veteran dependents.
Maybe, but there are an awful lot of veterans using it to go to Medical/ Law school right now (me included). Virtually all my veteran classmates either are using or will use the Hazlewood Act. It's allowing Texas vets that coudn't have afforded to go beyond undergrad to get graduate degrees. That was the intent of the act, considering it can ONLY be used once you have exhausted your VA benefits.
A lot more veterans are getting through undergrad due to the Post 9/11 GIB, thus a lot more are applying to grad schools, Med schools included.
 
Maybe, but there are an awful lot of veterans using it to go to Medical/ Law school right now (me included). Virtually all my veteran classmates either are using or will use the Hazlewood Act. It's allowing Texas vets that coudn't have afforded to go beyond undergrad to get graduate degrees. That was the intent of the act, considering it can ONLY be used once you have exhausted your VA benefits.
A lot more veterans are getting through undergrad due to the Post 9/11 GIB, thus a lot more are applying to grad schools, Med schools included.

By no means am I saying that some vets aren't benefitting from it. But facts are facts and the majority of the funds are being used for non-veteran education. This is only relevant because the argument that the state made for the necessity of maintaining the point of entry exclusion was cost overruns. The problem is that the cost overruns weren't being caused by veterans who had points of entry that weren't TX (and who, btw, are statistically shown to remain in the TX workforce), they were being caused by dependents.

Again, I'm not saying that it's a bad thing to provide benefits for dependents (I actually think its a nice perk), but I am saying that the Hazelwood act has been politicized and that the original intent of the act was sullied by politicians looking to garner votes.

Does it help some vets, absolutely. Does it use funds beyond the scope of the original act while denying benefits to TX veterans who would have otherwise qualified, yes as well. Would some vets choose to stay in TX and remain here after law/med school instead of go OOS, that is difficult to say b/c our tuition is so low, at least for med school. At the undergraduate level however, when you talk about training teachers and engineers and nurses, Texas likely loses well-qualified veterans to other states who might have otherwise stayed had Hazelwood been properly applied. It is the only benefit in TX for vets that requires the point of entry clause, which I believe says something about the clause to begin with. Similar provisions have been found constitutionally invalid from other states such as California and I do believe if SCOTUS had taken up the case, it would have reverted to the lower court's ruling of the clause being unconstitutional.

In the end, adding dependents has broken Hazelwood anyway, and pissed a lot of people off in the process, leading to the idea that it is no longer sustainable and will likely be discontinued in its entirety, at least the last time I bothered to check what mumblings were going on about it in Austin.

Also, for just for reference, Hazelwood was established long before 9/11 or even the MGIB was even a twinkle in someone's eye. You would be hard pressed to make a cogent argument that it was enacted to send those with degrees to grad school. Additionally, TX has the best return per dollar spent for med school as far as I know and I can't really see why someone would choose to not borrow student loans that could be repaid with 1 year of an attending's salary to instead work a $24K a year job with a bio degree. I guess it could happen but someone who made that decision probably lacked the critical reasoning skills to be a good doctor in the first place :greedy:
 
...the Hazelwood act has been politicized and that the original intent of the act was sullied by politicians looking to garner votes.
Who cares? The current HA allows not just the veteran but the family members benefits. Half my family are vets and that is often the case. It allows military families a lot of resources to go to school. What's not to love?

Also, for just for reference, Hazelwood was established long before 9/11 or even the MGIB was even a twinkle in someone's eye. You would be hard pressed to make a cogent argument that it was enacted to send those with degrees to grad school.

Thanks for the history lesson. Again who cares? Both acts have been around since at least 1944 (HA is older but was heavily amended in '44). Both have been changed again and again, and the present day HA can only be used AFTER ALL VA BENEFITS HAVE BEEN EXHAUSTED (usually for a bachelor's degree), which is a clause intended to allow vets to continue education (usually a graduate degree). Who cares if instead it can be used for for family members? All good things!
In the end, adding dependents has broken Hazelwood anyway, and pissed a lot of people off in the process, leading to the idea that it is no longer sustainable and will likely be discontinued in its entirety, at least the last time I bothered to check what mumblings were going on about it in Austin.
I think you are the only person I've ever heard of that is pissed off by this. Again many of my classmates, both Veterans and dependents use HA. None of us (veterans) are pissed at dependents for using what their daddy earned. As a father, I'm all about working hard to leave things for my kids. As for all this nonsense about it becoming so expensive that it's going away, I'd be surprised. I'll believe it when I see it.
And BROKEN? How?
Those of us actually attending medical school on the HA are quite happy with it.
 
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I think this thread is supposed to be about sharing info on Veteran's Benefits that can be used in med school, not debating the political motives of such and such and historical blah blah blah.

Let's not hijack a useful thread. Sorry for my part in that.

If anybody has questions about using the Hazlewood Act for Medical School in Texas, hit me up.
-BabyDaddy out.
 
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I think this thread is supposed to be about sharing info on Veteran's Benefits that can be used in med school, not debating the political motives of such and such and historical blah blah blah.

Let's not hijack a useful thread. Sorry for my part in that.

If anybody has questions about using the Hazlewood Act for Medical School in Texas, hit me up.
-BabyDaddy out.


I agree it's not for meaningless banter, and tbh I feel at this point you are not even reading my responses and just responding out of "this is helping me and my friends, so I don't care what you think." I could take the time to point that out for each of your responses but since you aren't really reading my responses to begin with, why bother?

If it makes any difference, I've helped literally thousands of other vets secure millions of dollars in educational funding through voc rehab. Im disheartened that I can't help other veterans who don't qualify for Ch 31 qualify for Hazelwood after they've lived in TX for years. As a fellow veteran, I can't understand how that wouldn't stir some empathy for them in you as well. Hazelwood has zero impact on me as my schooling is paid for by Ch 31, which is a superior benefit, so my beef with the program is that other veterans are being denied benefits.

To summarize every point I've made in each of my responses
- I'm glad it's helping you, never said I wasn't so I can't quite understand you lashing out at me
- I think it's a great perk for dependents as long as the state doesn't rob from actual veterans to swap dependents in their place
- Lots of people are upset about it and a silly political move is putting the program in danger for future veterans
- I have no personal skin in the game, my schooling is already paid for by a program that has more benefits, my "beef" with the program is the impact on fellow veterans
 
As a fellow veteran, I can't understand how that wouldn't stir some empathy for them in you as well.
WHAT? Who said I was against allowing peeps who didn't join from Tx to use HA? STRAW MAN argument. Don't even try it.
As for not reading your posts, I have read every line, and I'm literally quoting them. But maybe I shouldn't. I really don't have time for novels right now.

Let's return this thread to what it was intended for.
 
Question on my Chapter 33 certificate of eligibility:

I’ve received my entitlement eligibility for post 9-11 and currently going through the finalization of my MEB ( anticipating a medical retirement ). I’ve already been approved for my professional program for 2019, however this certificate is based on my “current” active duty time and not the fact that I’ll already be a vet with my DD-214 in hand.

I know I’ll qualify for Voc-Rehab, but since the document attached here states I qualify for only 90% (which obviously will change once I’m out honorably) of post 9-11, do I send this to my schools professional program simply to qualify for the Yellow Ribbon Program Earlier rather than later? If I do this, do I immediately appeal my Chapter 33 education rating (for 100% coverage - cap) once I have my service connected disability finalized and DD-214 in hand?

This portion with the VA education entitlements is very new to me so forgive me in advance.
 

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Question on my Chapter 33 certificate of eligibility:

I’ve received my entitlement eligibility for post 9-11 and currently going through the finalization of my MEB ( anticipating a medical retirement ). I’ve already been approved for my professional program for 2019, however this certificate is based on my “current” active duty time and not the fact that I’ll already be a vet with my DD-214 in hand.

I know I’ll qualify for Voc-Rehab, but since the document attached here states I qualify for only 90% (which obviously will change once I’m out honorably) of post 9-11, do I send this to my schools professional program simply to qualify for the Yellow Ribbon Program Earlier rather than later? If I do this, do I immediately appeal my Chapter 33 education rating (for 100% coverage - cap) once I have my service connected disability finalized and DD-214 in hand?

This portion with the VA education entitlements is very new to me so forgive me in advance.

As for Voc Rehab (Ch 31), it will be a completely separate deal. Once you have a service rated disability you can apply online through ebenefits for Ch 31 and typically will have an appointment within 30 days. They will usually tell you at the initial appointment if you are approved, then you will make a single follow up appointment with some added documents and get a signed 1905 to take to your school that will cover everything. At that point, the only thing that matters for your post 9/11 is that you have at least one month of eligibility (which you do) so that they can pay you the BAH rate instead of the standard stipend.

In the meantime though, I agree you should send your Ch 33 cert to your school just in case for some reason you were not approved for ch 31. That way you are always ahead of the curve.
 
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Question on my Chapter 33 certificate of eligibility:

I’ve received my entitlement eligibility for post 9-11 and currently going through the finalization of my MEB ( anticipating a medical retirement ). I’ve already been approved for my professional program for 2019, however this certificate is based on my “current” active duty time and not the fact that I’ll already be a vet with my DD-214 in hand.

I know I’ll qualify for Voc-Rehab, but since the document attached here states I qualify for only 90% (which obviously will change once I’m out honorably) of post 9-11, do I send this to my schools professional program simply to qualify for the Yellow Ribbon Program Earlier rather than later? If I do this, do I immediately appeal my Chapter 33 education rating (for 100% coverage - cap) once I have my service connected disability finalized and DD-214 in hand?

This portion with the VA education entitlements is very new to me so forgive me in advance.

Is the 90% due to less than a certain amount of time served due to the MEB? I'm not as familiar with GI Bill stuff, but as @esob said, Ch 31 is different. It's a separately application based on VA ratings/disabilities, and you cannot use both at the same time. In terms of being used for education, one deducts from the other.

I believe if you are currently doing a med board, you can apply. Don't quote me, but search for that answer and ask around. I think there is something you can do while still in but being boarded.
 
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Is the 90% due to less than a certain amount of time served due to the MEB? I'm not as familiar with GI Bill stuff, but as @esob said, Ch 31 is different. It's a separately application based on VA ratings/disabilities, and you cannot use both at the same time. In terms of being used for education, one deducts from the other.

I believe if you are currently doing a med board, you can apply. Don't quote me, but search for that answer and ask around. I think there is something you can do while still in but being boarded.

The 90% does correspond based on TIS prior to MEB. Which is why when I appeal I’ll qualify for 100% by the time I get my DD-214 with well over the min. 3 years.

I did finally meet with a counselor representing my regional district based on duty station. I can apply for Chapter 31 while going through my MEB to the extent of filling out the paperwork and get an appointment with a counselor 1-2 months once I leave the service since I obtained an admission for schooling (with degree in hand and my acceptance in the other). I’ll definitely need to plead my case to gain the benefit of Chapter 31 while using BAH (deducting my 9-11).

If anyone is curious (like I was), they will submit your paperwork for Voc-Rehab with rating in hand and a written out goal for employment (ie school starts a month or two after your out) and declare your eligibility even before you ETS based on medical records from your current PCM (for gov purposes they’ll still need you to expedite your DD-214 since it is a VA benefit). So, if your rating is in and you have plenty of transition leave plus whatever your company commander gives you to out-process you can definitely have the Chapter 31 taken care of right at your final duty station.

Mines a Behavioral Health condition which requires me more digging to present my case.
 
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The 90% does correspond based on TIS prior to MEB. Which is why when I appeal I’ll qualify for 100% by the time I get my DD-214 with well over the min. 3 years.

I did finally meet with a counselor representing my regional district based on duty station. I can apply for Chapter 31 while going through my MEB to the extent of filling out the paperwork and get an appointment with a counselor 1-2 months once I leave the service since I obtained an admission for schooling (with degree in hand and my acceptance in the other). I’ll definitely need to plead my case to gain the benefit of Chapter 31 while using BAH (deducting my 9-11).

If anyone is curious (like I was), they will submit your paperwork for Voc-Rehab with rating in hand and a written out goal for employment (ie school starts a month or two after your out) and declare your eligibility even before you ETS based on medical records from your current PCM (for gov purposes they’ll still need you to expedite your DD-214 since it is a VA benefit). So, if your rating is in and you have plenty of transition leave plus whatever your company commander gives you to our process you can definitely have the Chapter 31 taken care of right at your final duty station.

Mines a Behavioral Health condition which requires me more digging to present my case.

FWIW, I personally know of two vets with behavioral health issues that were both approved not only for graduate schooling but were also approved beyond the 48-month rule (and as such were deemed to have SEH's). It can be done. Nothing is ever easy of course when the gov't is involved, but just throwing some good vibes your way that everything goes smoothly because I've seen it happen.
 
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Requesting advice on Voc Rehab appeal process for graduate education (Doctor of Physical Therapy)?

Thursday, I went to my initial appointment for vocational rehab and met with the counselor for the first time. I felt well prepared as I watched a lot of Ben Krauss’s videos on youtube and read up on the student doctor network forums current student’s stories who had been approved for medical school, but was denied benefits. I will be graduating with a bachelors in kinesiology this spring, but want to be a physical therapist and work for the VA, so I need more education to become employable as a physical therapist. When I went to the appointment, I dressed up professional, had all the paperwork they requested, my DPT program admission letters and paperwork from the American Physical Therapy Association showing that a DPT is the entry level education required to be licensed as a physical therapist in America, but the counselor told me that the Waco regional office will not approve graduate education. She told me that she had approved law school in the past but that around 6 months ago their leadership changed and will not allow the counselors to approve graduate programs. I showed her the APTA requirements to practice as a physical therapist and she agreed with me that a DPT education was required for my career/employment plans, but said that the max she would be allowed to approve for me was a teaching certificate as she said with a teaching cert and my bachelors degree I would be employable. I argued that teaching didn’t align with my interests and that the VA should provide an entry level education so that I could become employed in a career that aligned with my interests. She then said the other voc rehab counselor was an Air Force veteran and she wanted to go talk to her to see if she had any advice on how to get me approved through Waco regional. When she came back after about 5-10 min she told me that neither of them could think of any solution to be allowed to approve me and that she thought it was ridiculous that a federal program wasn’t uniform across the country as other veterans receive voc rehab entitlements for graduate education that there was no way Waco would allow her to approve me. She encouraged me to appeal the decision and told me to keep taking it up the chain. She said if I was ok waiting 10 min she would type up the decision then so that I could start my appeal process. Also, she said I had 22 months of benefits left so that I would need to prove an SEH to get additional benefits. I don’t know where that 22months number is coming from as on ebenefits I have just over 6 months left of GI Bill and without the extension voc rehab only provides another 12 months so I thought I just had around 18 months remaining.

Decision stated “I have determined that your service-connected disability does not contribute to your difficulty getting and keeping a job. Also, you have informed your counselor that you will be pursuing a Doctor of Physical Therapy degree once you complete your bachelor of science in Kinesiology. Vocational rehab and employment is a program designed to assist with finding entry level employment. It is my determination that a degree in kinesiology would allow you to gain entry level employment. As a result, we cannot provide VR&E services at this time.”

I have read Ben Krause’s whole ebook and I think what it is saying is to request an FOIA first before appealing? My counselor said my options were to request an administrative review or make an appeal to the board of veterans appeals. I do not start my DPT education until August, so which option do y’all suggest doing first? Also, she didn’t make copies or want to keep my DPT program acceptance letter or APTA rules stating that DPT is entry level education, so do I need to submit those again somehow?

Incase disability percentage matters I was recently rated 70%

Thanks!
 
Have you been accepted to a school that costs less than $25k per year? If so, then your VRC can approve the program directly without needing anything from Waco. The only time it needs higher up's approval is if it crests 25K annually, which then goes to the VR&E officer (which can be in Waco, or at your local office if you are in a big region), and if it crests 50K then the regional director in Waco would have to sign off. Your VRC is right in the fact that Waco will not sign off on the higher tuition for graduate work (though they will for undergrad).

The more disturbing thing is that the VRC noted you don't have an employment handicap, which means you are not entitled to use Ch 31. You would need to be found to have an EH, which then triggers an automatic evaluation of whether you have a severe employment handicap (SEH). Having an SEH is how you get > 48 months worth of benefits.
 
esob,
Yes, I will be attending a public university so it is significantly less in tuition than $25,000. The tuition is an estimate as it changes slightly from year to year but will be just under $17,000. I know I need to argue the employment handicap as whether she agrees with it or not PTSD is a significant employment handicap. Maybe I didn't argue it enough as it seems like a fine line between them thinking I'm not capable based on that diagnosis and denying my benefits because of that. But I showed my undergraduate GPA for kinesiology major & biology minor of 3.92 so I think that should prove that while I do have an employment handicap I am more than capable of succeeding academically. My local office is in Lubbock, but she kept insisting that she wouldn't be allowed to approve by Waco.
Have any of yall asked for an administrative review or started an appeal? I am trying to figure out my best course of action to get approved.
Thanks!
 
esob,
Yes, I will be attending a public university so it is significantly less in tuition than $25,000. The tuition is an estimate as it changes slightly from year to year but will be just under $17,000. I know I need to argue the employment handicap as whether she agrees with it or not PTSD is a significant employment handicap. Maybe I didn't argue it enough as it seems like a fine line between them thinking I'm not capable based on that diagnosis and denying my benefits because of that. But I showed my undergraduate GPA for kinesiology major & biology minor of 3.92 so I think that should prove that while I do have an employment handicap I am more than capable of succeeding academically. My local office is in Lubbock, but she kept insisting that she wouldn't be allowed to approve by Waco.
Have any of yall asked for an administrative review or started an appeal? I am trying to figure out my best course of action to get approved.
Thanks!

To be clear - $17k is annual? or is it semester?

How did you demonstrate it being an employment handicap while not precluding you from performing as a PT?
 
To be clear - $17k is annual? or is it semester?

How did you demonstrate it being an employment handicap while not precluding you from performing as a PT?
17k is the annual tuition. I struggled a lot with anxiety and depression while working in a metal shop this summer, I stated how I had those symptoms related to PTSD as I didn't feel like I was helping anyone or doing anything meaningful with my life. Told her how helping others through therapy relieves my symptoms as I know that I am making a difference in the world and showed my GPA to prove I will be successful in school. I'm not really sure how else to state it as the VA seems to discriminate against post traumatic stress.
 
17k is the annual tuition. I struggled a lot with anxiety and depression while working in a metal shop this summer, I stated how I had those symptoms related to PTSD as I didn't feel like I was helping anyone or doing anything meaningful with my life. Told her how helping others through therapy relieves my symptoms as I know that I am making a difference in the world and showed my GPA to prove I will be successful in school. I'm not really sure how else to state it as the VA seems to discriminate against post traumatic stress.

Have you done any work or volunteering in a healthcare/PT setting such as a PTA to demonstrate (and know for yourself) that nothing would be triggered?
 
Have you done any work or volunteering in a healthcare/PT setting such as a PTA to demonstrate (and know for yourself) that nothing would be triggered?
Yes, I have done about 350 hours of volunteering in various PT clinics/hospital setting. PTA requires a state license so I haven't done that but in the nursing home PT clinic I volunteered in I got to do a lot of hands-on care.
 
I know I need to argue the employment handicap as whether she agrees with it or not PTSD is a significant employment handicap. Maybe I didn't argue it enough as it seems like a fine line between them thinking I'm not capable based on that diagnosis and denying my benefits because of that. Have any of yall asked for an administrative review or started an appeal? I am trying to figure out my best course of action to get approved.
Thanks!

I as well (among other factors) have PTSD listed as one of my main disabilities from the service. Only a few days ago I have started my terminal leave and was rejected for Voc Rehab from the San Antonio area before leaving the joint-base military region. One of the biggest factors they'll look for in defining a SEH with mental disabilities is validating whether or not you have had past employment after the service. I myself will actually be filing for unemployment before I start my doctorate of pharmacy come August 2019. In your case, If you quit previous employment due to your disability, I would include as part of your packet for appealment a letter from you employer stating your reasoning for dismissal. That will alleviate the upperhand of your counselor to put into consensus your qualifications for entry level employment that both meets your abilities and interests that you described and as outlined in Title 38 CFR subsection of Chapter 31 benefits.

This is the strongest way of validating while proving you have an SEH from past employment statements from managers. I'd even go with your manager(s) and get the letter notarized and dated with a third party as a witness. As for your question asking for an administrative review and begin an appealment, I would contact a member of congress before going through the appealment with documents of your region stating the reasoning as to why they simply will not approve of your status and entitlement (despite them telling you other regions would approve but they specifically will not....How you get this last bit in writing will be tricky but I go with the saying: "if its not on paper, it never happened"). Once you establish a representative, go to the appealment with professionalism (as well as dressed as you have done) and present the case once again with new evidence of you having an established SEH. Should you fall short, ask them out right to put it in writing and signed that day as to the reasoning of the denial. Send that document as well with anything else you have to your congress representative and put it in their hands.

I myself plan on doing all of this one step at a time and am recording my journey in this thread:

Chapter 31 "Qualifying for Voc-Rehab" Journey

As I say to everyone else, keep us updated on your journey and what is said. More knowledge we can have the better equipped we can become for future veterans. I hope this puts in you somewhat of a direction for your goal.
 
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I as well (among other factors) have PTSD listed as one of my main disabilities from the service. Only a few days ago I have started my terminal leave and was rejected for Voc Rehab from the San Antonio area before leaving the joint-base military region. One of the biggest factors they'll look for in defining a SEH with mental disabilities is validating whether or not you have had past employment after the service. I myself will actually be filing for unemployment before I start my doctorate of pharmacy come August 2019. In your case, If you quit previous employment due to your disability, I would include as part of your packet for appealment a letter from you employer stating your reasoning for dismissal. That will alleviate the upperhand of your counselor to put into consensus your qualifications for entry level employment that both meets your abilities and interests that you described and as outlined in Title 38 CFR subsection of Chapter 31 benefits.

This is the strongest way of validating while proving you have an SEH from past employment statements from managers. I'd even go with your manager(s) and get the letter notarized and dated with a third party as a witness. As for your question asking for an administrative review and begin an appealment, I would contact a member of congress before going through the appealment with documents of your region stating the reasoning as to why they simply will not approve of your status and entitlement (despite them telling you other regions would approve but they specifically will not....How you get this last bit in writing will be tricky but I go with the saying: "if its not on paper, it never happened"). Once you establish a representative, go to the appealment with professionalism (as well as dressed as you have done) and present the case once again with new evidence of you having an established SEH. Should you fall short, ask them out write to put it in writing and signed that day as to the reasoning of the denial. Send that document as well with anything else you have to your congress representative and put it in their hands.

I myself plan on doing all of this one step at a time and am recording my journey in this thread:

Chapter 31 "Qualifying for Voc-Rehab" Journey

As I say to everyone else, keep us updated on your journey and what is said. More knowledge we can have the better equipped we can become for future veterans. I hope this puts in you somewhat of a direction for your goal.
BC,
Thanks for the advice! I was recommended to do an informal meeting where I give new evidence as in following a template where I specifically write out all of my issues and why I need Voc Rehab to become employable as most of the info provided to my counselor was verbal so I have no proof of what was said/her responses. I didn't think of getting my congressman involved, the Team RWB lead here knows him as he is on the congressional committee for veterans so that is a great idea to reach out to him!
 
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