Veterans: Anyone using VA voc rehab?

[rikudo]

I'm a vet with a VA rating that qualifies for vocational rehab. I have an full post 9/11 GI Bill available to use as well.

My question is: has anyone out there used voc rehab for medical school or other professional programs?

From my understanding voc rehab and the GI Bill can be used concurrently with voc rehab paying all tuition/fees/expenses and GI Bill providing E-5 w/dep BAH. Essential this would be a full ride scholarship with all expenses paid to attend medical school... this almost seems too good to be true. I understand voc rehab was originally intended for shorter vocational degrees, but there are sources stating it can pay for law school, pharmacy school etc...

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[Pons Asinorum]

One of the guys that I'm going through with did voc rehab plus the last little bit of Post-9/11 to cover tuition. I used all of my Post-9/11 on the first 3.5-ish years of med school, covered all of tuition plus the BAH as stipend. It does run out before your time is up, however, caveat emptor. It's a good deal, particularly at an in-state school.

 

[MrLogan13]

I don't personally know anyone who used VR&E for med school, but I plan on attempting to use it. That is, if my rating gets finalized any time soon. My comp and pen appeal has been under review since 2009.

 

[Aloft085]

I'm a vet with a VA rating that qualifies for vocational rehab. I have an full post 9/11 GI Bill available to use as well.

My question is: has anyone out there used voc rehab for medical school or other professional programs?

From my understanding voc rehab and the GI Bill can be used concurrently with voc rehab paying all tuition/fees/expenses and GI Bill providing E-5 w/dep BAH. Essential this would be a full ride scholarship with all expenses paid to attend medical school... this almost seems too good to be true. I understand voc rehab was originally intended for shorter vocational degrees, but there are sources stating it can pay for law school, pharmacy school etc...

No idea, man. When you get accepted somewhere, see if you can get their financial aid office to provide you some help with it. Wish I had that potential ace in the hole. Trying to decide between just using the GI bill or potentially taking an HPSP. That's a deal with the devil that I don't really want to make though, considering their control over your residency/fellowship choices.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

No idea, man. When you get accepted somewhere, see if you can get their financial aid office to provide you some help with it. Wish I had that potential ace in the hole. Trying to decide between just using the GI bill or potentially taking an HPSP. That's a deal with the devil that I don't really want to make though, considering their control over your residency/fellowship choices.

Highly recommend GI + loans. As you learned during your prior service, the needs of the military trump yours at every turn. Take out the loans, go to the residency of your choice, then call up a recruiter if military medicine is still something that interests you and get the loans paid off then. Otherwise, the chance of there being a GMO spot in far-flung places with your name engraved on it are just too high for comfort.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

No idea, man. When you get accepted somewhere, see if you can get their financial aid office to provide you some help with it. Wish I had that potential ace in the hole. Trying to decide between just using the GI bill or potentially taking an HPSP. That's a deal with the devil that I don't really want to make though, considering their control over your residency/fellowship choices.

As seen on MilMed forum:

I think it's all dependent on one's specialty and situation. My wife and I are both 3 year HPSP recepient. We are in two different services. My medical school was fairly cheap. I came out with $45K in loans after medical school. I cut cost by living at my parent's house during medical school. She went to an expensive private school in DC. After graduating from medical school she had about $100K of loans. After 5 years of training she has $150K in loans.

Now the rub is that we are both in high paying specialty. The military screwed us in our first assignments. One there's the geographic separation. Two I am in an awful location in a MTF run by nurses. No one in my department is happy. There is skill atrophy. There is now the push from HRC for board certified physicians of all specialties to enter operational assignments (FST, Brigade or Flight surgeon). There's no funding for any CME activity. The expectation to do more with less. Milmed is not a good environment now especially outside of the big Medcen (Walter Reed, SAMMC, MAMC etc).

I would not recommend any prospective student to do the military primarily for financial reasons. There are just too many variables where one can end up really unhappy. Sure if one is married with kids and a spouse who is willing to stay at home and doesn't mind being sent to rural locations or doesn't mind the prospect of being tasked for a primarily administrative assignment then a military life is not a terrible option. One can skate by in the military, strolling into work around 8am and out by 4pm if they want to be lazy.

In the current climate of austerity, one shouldn't have any fantasy that they are entirely in control of their career if they stay in the military. There's a board certified doc who in my MTF who basically got voluntold that he'll be starting a flight surgery assignment. A buddy of mine who graduated was voluntold that he'd be starting a brigade surgery assignment for two years at a busy location. These guys will not have any time to keep their skills up. It's just a complete waste and travesty.

 

[Aloft085]

As seen on MilMed forum:

Thanks for the reply. I'm just finding the possibility of graduating medical school with $200k+ in debt at 7% interest really distasteful, especially if I were to end up in a lower paying specialty. I ran the math the other day, and I could easily end up in significant debt until my 50's (31 now) in a field like primary care. Especially since the loans have to be paid back with post-tax income. Depending on the repayment schedule, that $200k could easily become $400k, and then add about a third for paying with post-tax income.

Of course even that quantity of money would be no big deal if you could bank on earning $300k+/year post-residency. However, I can't really bank on that. I'm just worried about being so far buried in debt that it'll make starting a family difficult.

Any input that I'm not considering here would be appreciated.

 

[xffan624]

I'm a vet with a VA rating that qualifies for vocational rehab. I have an full post 9/11 GI Bill available to use as well.

My question is: has anyone out there used voc rehab for medical school or other professional programs?

From my understanding voc rehab and the GI Bill can be used concurrently with voc rehab paying all tuition/fees/expenses and GI Bill providing E-5 w/dep BAH. Essential this would be a full ride scholarship with all expenses paid to attend medical school... this almost seems too good to be true. I understand voc rehab was originally intended for shorter vocational degrees, but there are sources stating it can pay for law school, pharmacy school etc...

I'm using it for medical school. It actually doesn't run out like the GI Bill, which is why I switched (You have to still have GI Bill leftover to get the BAH compensation in lieu of the other stipend, but it doesn't get used up while you're on Voc Reha). I used the GI Bill for the first two semesters, did some research and started the process to switch over about halfway through my first year. You lose the book stipend, but they will buy your books and other supplies for you, so it's all good 'cause I can resell them later. They will also cover Step 1 expenses.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

Thanks for the reply. I'm just finding the possibility of graduating medical school with $200k+ in debt at 7% interest really distasteful, especially if I were to end up in a lower paying specialty. I ran the math the other day, and I could easily end up in significant debt until my 50's (31 now) in a field like primary care. Especially since the loans have to be paid back with post-tax income. Depending on the repayment schedule, that $200k could easily become $400k, and then add about a third for paying with post-tax income.

Of course even that quantity of money would be no big deal if you could bank on earning $300k+/year post-residency. However, I can't really bank on that. I'm just worried about being so far buried in debt that it'll make starting a family difficult.

Any input that I'm not considering here would be appreciated.

There are other loan payment programs if you're interested in primary care that don't involve the negatives of HPSP.

 

[MusicDOc124]

I'm using it.

 

[rikudo]

Thanks everyone for the replies. It looks like using combined voc rehab + GI Bill is the way to go for a debt free medical education .

The VA website mentions:

Entitlement to services is established if the veteran has an employment handicap and is within his or her 12-year basic period of eligibility and has a 20% or greater service-connected disability rating.

To those with voc rehab: was it difficult establishing an employment handicap? Being at 40% my conditions primarily handicap in physical vocations (running, heavy lifting, repetitive motions) not so much white collar work.

 

[Aloft085]

There are other loan payment programs if you're interested in primary care that don't involve the negatives of HPSP.

Not particularly interested in primary care, just planning for the worst case scenario financially. I did well on the MCAT, but who knows where I'll rank in medical school.

 

[rikudo]

Not particularly interested in primary care, just planning for the worst case scenario financially. I did well on the MCAT, but who knows where I'll rank in medical school.

From my personal experience with HPSP physicians in the Army, a majority regret the decision. Operational assignments put your career at a standstill for years. Waiting a year or longer to start residencies are common. Payback starts only after residency and residency acquires a year for year payback as well. By that time you might as well put in your 20 and get retirement. Do it if you want a career in the military, not just for the finances. On the plus side some competitive residencies are easier to obtain through the military route.

 

[DrOMG]

Can you still use Voc Rehab if you have no GI bill left? I used my GI Bill for my undergraduate degree :-(

 

[xffan624]

Can you still use Voc Rehab if you have no GI bill left? I used my GI Bill for my undergraduate degree :-(

Yes, but your stipend will be limited to the paltry amount provided under Voc Rehab (like $500-$600). If you have at least 1 day left though of GI Bill, you can still opt for the GI Bill stipend for the entirety of the Voc Rehab. At least that's what my case worker told me.

 

[MrLogan13]

ical education .

The VA website mentions:


To those with voc rehab: was it difficult establishing an employment handicap? Being at 40% my conditions primarily handicap in physical vocations (running, heavy lifting, repetitive motions) not so much white collar work.

I'm interested in this too. I was medically retired at 30% and still waiting to be rated by the VA (since 2009!), but my case should be wrapped up by the end of the year.

 

[NotAnOperator]

I'm still active duty but I'm curious how the whole disability % works. I've had spine surgery (very successful) and a leg fx (fully healed). I physically feel fine (slight back pain but no need for any meds), score an easy 100 on PT tests and can function and do my job perfectly. Still, people have told me I'd probably qualify for some percentage. Can anyone give me some insight?

 

[Aloft085]

I'm still active duty but I'm curious how the whole disability % works. I've had spine surgery (very successful) and a leg fx (fully healed). I physically feel fine (slight back pain but no need for any meds), score an easy 100 on PT tests and can function and do my job perfectly. Still, people have told me I'd probably qualify for some percentage. Can anyone give me some insight?

If you had spine surgery, I can almost guarantee that you'll qualify for some percentage of disability. I'm 110% healthy specimen of man and still had people trying to convince me to file for some disability when I separated, it's a bit ridiculous. For the Air Force, the people to speak to are Airman and Family Readiness. Not sure for the other services.

 

[MrLogan13]

If you had spine surgery, I can almost guarantee that you'll qualify for some percentage of disability. I'm 110% healthy specimen of man and still had people trying to convince me to file for some disability when I separated, it's a bit ridiculous. For the Air Force, the people to speak to are Airman and Family Readiness. Not sure for the other services.

There's plenty of reasons to file a VA claim for injuries that incurred in the line of duty. You want to establish service connection as soon as possible upon discharge, even if they have minimal effect on you. First off, most things are assumed to be service connected if your claim is filed within one year of ETS, and will be "easier" to establish with the VA at this time. I made the mistake of waiting a few years after I was medically retired to file a claim with the VA for the same reason you mentioned, I didn't feel that bad. But now I have to establish that it was service connected (no problem, I have all my military treatment records as well as my branch rating me at 30% already) and continuing treatment (no problem either); due to the bureaucracy of the VA, my claim has been pending for the last 5 years. Could have saved myself a lot of headaches with the VA if I had done this shortly after I left the service.

Second, you may feel fine now, but who knows how these injuries will affect you several years down the line? Even if you are rated at 0% now, you can have your problem re-evaluated down the line if it worsens. Since you've already established service connection, this makes that process "easier" than if you had to start from scratch ten years after you separated.

 

[rikudo]

Just an update: did not get approved for Voc Rehab. My work experience and bachelors alone make me able to find gainful employment so Voc Rehab is not an option. Med school approval is rare as well. Just GI Bill for me.

 

[xffan624]

Just an update: did not get approved for Voc Rehab. My work experience and bachelors alone make me able to find gainful employment so Voc Rehab is not an option. Med school approval is rare as well. Just GI Bill for me.

Thanks for the update. Sorry it didn't work out. GI bill will cover 100% of tuition for you if you're going to a state school. Even if you have 1 day left it will still cover the entire semester so you will probably only have to take out loans during 4th year some time. Still better off than most of the students.

I'm a bit surprised that it didn't get approved for you. Myself and another classmate in the same year are both using it so it didn't seem too rare to me.

 

[MusicDOc124]

Like xffan said, its not too rare, actually. Mine was just approved earlier this month, and I switched from having approval for PA school to med school.

rikudo,

Do you mind if I ask what your bachelors is in and what work experience? Depending on your ailments for which you are rated, you could repeal and argue that those ailments keep from you working in your current field to your full potential, and that your bachelors (lets say bio for example) can't get you a new job independently (i.e. need graduate education or a teaching certificate - neither of which may be your intended 'new' profession). No one can tell you what you have to due, but it is a matter of how your present it as to whether or not it gets approved or not.

 

[rikudo]

Like xffan said, its not too rare, actually. Mine was just approved earlier this month, and I switched from having approval for PA school to med school.

rikudo,

Do you mind if I ask what your bachelors is in and what work experience? Depending on your ailments for which you are rated, you could repeal and argue that those ailments keep from you working in your current field to your full potential, and that your bachelors (lets say bio for example) can't get you a new job independently (i.e. need graduate education or a teaching certificate - neither of which may be your intended 'new' profession). No one can tell you what you have to due, but it is a matter of how your present it as to whether or not it gets approved or not.

Liberal Arts BA, 4 years as an Army medical service officer. My counselor said she could get me a position at VA Medical center as a healthcare administrator by the end of the month. Since I don't have a serious impairment preventing me from taking the job and it is in line with my experience I can't disregard a viable job for med school. Basically I'm too employable and voc rehab which is an employment program vs. education program.

Additionally I used half of my VA benefits during undergrad so voc rehab wouldn't cover a 4 year program with under 4 years of benefit eligibility. She said PA school would work but I'm set on being a physician.

Regardless I'm still grateful for GI Bill. Voc rehab would have been amazing but I understand the program is more aimed at the seriously disabled to find work. I'll still have post 9/11, disability and free health coverage which is huge.

 

[MusicDOc124]

I definitely see what you mean now. It would have been different if you were a medic or something more related directly. You're still much better off than they average medical student!

 

[MrLogan13]

Sorry to hear that. That blows. At least you have Post 9/11 GI Bill, it'll help tons. I just exhausted my Ch. 33 benefits, they'll end at the end of this semester. At least I had enough to get me through my BS and MS.

 

[CaptRetired]

I applied for Voc Rehab when I was getting out (Apr 2013) and had to do pre-reqs for med school. As I have an MBA (U. of Phoenix, while deployed), they wouldn't approve undergrad classes. I was told that "when you get accepted, you can re-apply and you will have a better chance." I moved in June, started school in August, reapplied for VR&E in October, my application got lost, but I finally talked to someone today. Without even viewing anything in my application, the lady told me that they weren't approving anything if you have a bachelor's degree, "except maybe a couple classes for a required certificate." I was an Air Battle Manager in the USAF, with an undergrad in Management and the aforementioned MBA, 80% overall VA disability (PTSD mostly), and (Montgomery) GI Bill benefits half gone (see MBA). Any suggestions? I will set up an appointment with them (probably in the next month), and I want to make sure that it isn't a waste of precious study time. Thanks for your help!

 

[MusicDOc124]

I applied for Voc Rehab when I was getting out (Apr 2013) and had to do pre-reqs for med school. As I have an MBA (U. of Phoenix, while deployed), they wouldn't approve undergrad classes. I was told that "when you get accepted, you can re-apply and you will have a better chance." I moved in June, started school in August, reapplied for VR&E in October, my application got lost, but I finally talked to someone today. Without even viewing anything in my application, the lady told me that they weren't approving anything if you have a bachelor's degree, "except maybe a couple classes for a required certificate." I was an Air Battle Manager in the USAF, with an undergrad in Management and the aforementioned MBA, 80% overall VA disability (PTSD mostly), and (Montgomery) GI Bill benefits half gone (see MBA). Any suggestions? I will set up an appointment with them (probably in the next month), and I want to make sure that it isn't a waste of precious study time. Thanks for your help!

Voc Rehab paid for 1/2 of my undergrad and is approved to cover medical school, so to tag onto what hopeful said just above, your counselor is wrong. Get a new counselor because it is possible.

With that said........ since you need the prereps - apply to post-bacc programs with a guarantee or highly esteemed with linkages. Temple (PA) and Creighton (NE) have guarantees (MD) I believe, and there are many others in the DO realm. There are also many with linkages to both MD and DO. This will improve chances because of the linkages and built in MCAT prep, and will save you a gap year. She is correct in that if you are accepted that you have a better chance, but wrong about undergrad, and post-grad for that matter, and certainly presented it wrongly. If you have any questions, feel free to message me or continue to post!

 

[CaptRetired]

Voc Rehab paid for 1/2 of my undergrad and is approved to cover medical school, so to tag onto what hopeful said just above, your counselor is wrong. Get a new counselor because it is possible.

With that said........ since you need the prereps - apply to post-bacc programs with a guarantee or highly esteemed with linkages. Temple (PA) and Creighton (NE) have guarantees (MD) I believe, and there are many others in the DO realm. There are also many with linkages to both MD and DO. This will improve chances because of the linkages and built in MCAT prep, and will save you a gap year. She is correct in that if you are accepted that you have a better chance, but wrong about undergrad, and post-grad for that matter, and certainly presented it wrongly. If you have any questions, feel free to message me or continue to post!

Sorry for being so unclear. Let me try to fix that. I know that I have been assigned a "handler," but I haven't met with anyone yet... the person I talked to was just whoever was around because they realized my case hadn't been addressed even though it was filed in Oct. It was THAT person who was pretty dismissive. I really was mostly wondering what I could carry in when I get an appt. I mentioned that I met with someone in 2013... that was BEFORE I did my pre-reqs. I applied Fall'13/Spring '14, and started at GA campus PCOM Fall '14. Now I am in school and am trying to force their hand at approval (how can I possibly afford to take a low to mid-level management job and pay off school loans for this year?). Anyways, Thanks for the quick responses. I would love to know what other info makes/breaks the cases so I can show up with an M4 rather than a butter knife...

 

[MrLogan13]

Voc Rehab paid for 1/2 of my undergrad and is approved to cover medical school, so to tag onto what hopeful said just above, your counselor is wrong. Get a new counselor because it is possible.

I have my orientation and first meeting with a counselor in 3 weeks. Since you were approved for medical school, how would you suggest I prepare for the meeting? I'm rated at 50% and have exhausted my GI bill (used it to complete my BS and get an MS).

 

[MusicDOc124]

They should just waive tuition for veterans who go to professional schools in general =)

 

[rikudo]

This thread has motivated me to go back and talk with my counselor again. They said I was unsuitable for VR&E because they could get me a "suitable" employment in an entry level VA. Suitable according to the program is employment that fits my background, aptitudes or interests; something this VA file job has none of.

 

[CaptRetired]

I have my orientation and first meeting with a counselor in 3 weeks. Since you were approved for medical school, how would you suggest I prepare for the meeting? I'm rated at 50% and have exhausted my GI bill (used it to complete my BS and get an MS).

Just for wondering, did you exhaust MGIB benefits, or post 9/11 benefits? Because if it was MGIB benefits, there is hope...

 

[xffan624]

I have my orientation and first meeting with a counselor in 3 weeks. Since you were approved for medical school, how would you suggest I prepare for the meeting? I'm rated at 50% and have exhausted my GI bill (used it to complete my BS and get an MS).

Come in prepared to justify why the program is right for you. VR&E is intended to be an employment program. Be sure to read the information on the website for the program so you are well informed. Just like in the military, always know the regs, ideally better than the person you're meeting with (can't believe how many times that saved my bottom when I was in).

I came in with a story of why the program met my needs. My disability prevents me from standing for long periods of time. The job that my military experience qualified for, would be one in which I would likely be doing lots of walking and standing most of the day. Hence, I am unemployable in the job that I was most qualified to do.

 

[MrLogan13]

Just for wondering, did you exhaust MGIB benefits, or post 9/11 benefits? Because if it was MGIB benefits, there is hope...

I exhausted my Ch. 33 benefits. I had 14 days of benefits remaining at the start of this semester (January) and it paid my full tuition and will continue to pay 100% BAH until the end of the semester.

 

[MrLogan13]

Come in prepared to justify why the program is right for you. VR&E is intended to be an employment program. Be sure to read the information on the website for the program so you are well informed. Just like in the military, always know the regs, ideally better than the person you're meeting with (can't believe how many times that saved my bottom when I was in).

I came in with a story of why the program met my needs. My disability prevents me from standing for long periods of time. The job that my military experience qualified for, would be one in which I would likely be doing lots of walking and standing most of the day. Hence, I am unemployable in the job that I was most qualified to do.

Thanks for that. I'm hoping my meeting goes well. I'm familiarizing myself with the regs and who qualifies, hoping I'll get a counselor who isn't adversarial.

 

[CaptRetired]

I got an email today with an appointment on the 31st of March at 8 AM. Fortunately it is a day that I can skip class. Great notice- 3 days out and most of that during the weekend. Oh well.

The best part was that it gave me a survey to fill out with likes/dislikes and aptitudes (from CareerScope). Obviously I only "liked" medical type jobs, and scored very well on the aptitude test portion. With a 94%tile or higher on all aptitude sections, and my highest interest area "Scientific", I think the survey puts me in a good position. My favorite part is that under recommendations it includes Medical Sciences: Surgeon, Dentist, Optometrist, etc. (with a big bold dot by Medical Sciences... "When you see a (shows dot symbol here) symbol next to an occupational unit title it means there is a higher probability that your aptitude profile meets employment and training standards for that group of related occupations. Visit the O*NET web-site and gather information about the occupational units that are listed in this report.")

I also read Title 38 Chapter 31 in it's entirety. It does a poor job explaining what constitutes "suitable employment", "reasonably feasible" (as in "to determine whether a vocational goal is reasonably feasible" (Para. (9.A.i.I.).

 

[CaptRetired]

Most folks who can make it to med school are pretty thorough, so I figured I would post some things that I have found. A lot of links, actually, but BE FOREWARNED- I will not be updating these, so if they don't work anytime after the first week, you'll have to get the gist of the link and google something similar.

So, while "Chapter 31" is thus named because of the law you find it in,... Chapter 31 is merely a description of the program. Title 38, however, has several chapters that describe the administration of the program. In other words, if you want to read about VR&E, check out this link: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/38/3100

... you can see just above the text that there is a "prev/next" button that will allow you to "flip" between sections of the chapter and allow you to read on and on. HOWEVER... if you want to know how the law should be administered, you have to look elsewhere. Where? Glad you asked ...

First try this link:
https://books.google.com/books?id=-_QIBAAAQBAJ&pg=PA110&lpg=PA110#v=onepage&q&f=false

In case you have to google it later, the title is "Title 38 Pensions, Bonuses, and Veterans' Relief Part 18 to End. By Office of The Federal Register, Enhanced by IntraWEB, LLC"

I use this link more as a table of contents rather than reading the whole thing, mainly because you can't select text, highlight, copy/paste (Yes, I am getting a document ready for when I go in to my appointment in anticipation of the things they said on the phone). Instead, I use the Cornell University Law School site (first link), and I search (top right-hand corner) for the section I want to look at on my "Table of Contents" link. For instance, I type 38 CFR 21.35 to look for their "definitions" and find one of my questions from above...

(h) Vocational goal.
(1) The term vocational goal means a gainful employment status consistent with a veteran's abilities, aptitudes, and interests;

(2) The term achievement of a vocational goal is reasonably feasible means the effects of the veteran's disability (service and nonservice-connected), when considered in relation to the veteran's circumstances does not prevent the veteran from successfully pursuing a vocational rehabilitation program and becoming gainfully employed in an occupation consistent with the veteran's abilities, aptitudes, and interests;

(3) The term achievement of a vocational goal is not currently reasonably feasible means the effects of the veteran's disability (service and nonservice-connected), when considered in relation to the veteran's circumstances at the time of the determination:
(i) Prevent the veteran from successfully achieving a vocational goal at that time; or
(ii) Are expected to worsen within the period needed to achieve a vocational goal and which would, therefore, make achievement not reasonably feasible.


OR, if you search 38 CFR 21.53, you will find their section on "Reasonable Feasibility of Achieving a Vocational Goal" listed with this:

(d) Vocational goal is reasonably feasible. Achievement of a vocational goal is reasonably feasible for a veteran with either an employment or serious employment handicap when the following conditions are met:
(1) Vocational goal(s) has (have) been identified;
(2) The veteran's physical and mental conditions permit training for the goal(s) to begin within a reasonable period; and
(3) The veteran:
(i) Possesses the necessary educational skills and background to pursue the vocational goal; or
(ii) Will be provided services by the Department of Veterans Affairs to develop such necessary educational skills as part of the program.

(e) Criteria for reasonable feasibility not met.
(1)When VA finds that the provisions of paragraph (d) of this section are not met, but VA has not determined that achievement of a vocational goal is not currently reasonably feasible, VA shall provide the rehabilitation services contained in § 21.35(i)(1)(i) of this part as appropriate;
(2) A finding that achievement of a vocational goal is infeasible without a period of extended evaluation requires compelling evidence which establishes infeasibility beyond any reasonable doubt.

Sorry that this turned into a book in and of itself, but I figured it may help others out there, too.

 

[MrLogan13]

That's fantastic @CaptRetired ! This will prove to be a valuable resource.

 

[rangerdad]

I exhausted my Ch. 33 benefits. I had 14 days of benefits remaining at the start of this semester (January) and it paid my full tuition and will continue to pay 100% BAH until the end of the semester.

That means that you can have 12 months of 911/GI BILL added to your time. Then, before the year is over apply for Voc Rehab to maximize your educational benefits.

 

[tdubst]

Just adding my experience.

I used post 9/11 to pay for entire undegrad. Graduated early so I have quite a bit of benefits remaining. I knew that my benefits would run out during med school, so while I was applying for med school this cycle, I went through the VocRehab process.
Since VA educational benefits are normally limited to 48 months, i had to provide evidence of "severe disability handicap" in order to extend my benefits to cover all of med school. After providing all this, my counselor approved me for VR&E with extension. However, my case had to be suspended since I had not been accepted to med school yet! My couselor told me that my plan would be contingent on med school acceptance.
Fast forward a few months, I was lucky to be accepted and scheduled the next available appt with my counselour. As promised, my paperwork was approved and we worked on a plan for training and employment(med school and residency). My benefits would end with residency, since I will be considered employed at that time.
Currently, I have made an appt with my school's certifying official to have them verify my enrollment and required books/technology needed. This is required for payment.
There is no limit for books, but there is a limit for computer/printer ($2500) with a choice between mac or pc.
I will update my experience with voc rehab since I have yet to find a walkthrough of this daunting process.
Feel free to PM for more details.

 

[rikudo]

Approved!!! Full ride/BAH/all expenses, graduating debt free! @CaptRetired and @MusicDOc124: Huge thanks for your advice and guidance. After my first denial I was ready to give up until I read your posts here. I studied up, remained persistent and escalated as needed. Literally three days before class starts I got the notification I was approved.

 

[MusicDOc124]

glad to hear it @rikudo!

 

[rikudo]

Do you mind sharing what worked for you?

My initial denial rested on the VRC stating I was qualified for employment and my partial use of GI Bill didn't leave enough benefits months to cover med school. Using their independent vocational evaluation service, I demonstrated my current skillset didn't qualify me for "suitable employment" (employment matching the veterans background, interests and abilities) and my limitations disqualified me from several alternative jobs they suggested. Additionally the regs allow for an extension of benefit months to cover the duration of program even without SEH.

Know the regs thoroughly and ask your VRC to back up every step of their decision making process with the CFR. Dont' hesitate in reporting misconduct and unprofessionalism by VA staff up the chain, and continue going up the chain until someone listens.

 

[CaptRetired]

Approved!!! Full ride/BAH/all expenses, graduating debt free! @CaptRetired and @MusicDOc124: Huge thanks for your advice and guidance. After my first denial I was ready to give up until I read your posts here. I studied up, remained persistent and escalated as needed. Literally three days before class starts I got the notification I was approved.

Thats great to hear... I am still working on getting someone to listen, but I am finding so little time that it is just discouraging. Can I PM you for more details?

 

[rikudo]

Thats great to hear... I am still working on getting someone to listen, but I am finding so little time that it is just discouraging. Can I PM you for more details?

Of course, PM away!

 

[USMC3097]

Hey guys, greatly informative thread here, learning a ton. My current status is that I am utilizing the Post 9/11 and have 2 years remaining, but only have 50% eligibility. Because of this I have applied for Voc Rehab to get full education benefits. I was found eligible and had my initial but very brief contact with my VRC yesterday. He seemed rushed and I want him to like me during the entitlement phase, so I didn't want to ask too many questions. So I will ask you guys: 1) My Post 9/11 runs out due to time out of service in 2 years, but I still have 3.5-4 years left of school. When it says Voc Rehab will extend your education benefits by 12 months, does that mean I'm on my own to pay for my last 1-2 semesters since they will be after the 12 month extention period? 2) Will I be receiving the Post 9/11 BAH rate for the entire time I am in Voc Rehab or only for the time in which I still have Post 9/11 remaining? 3) I read in this thread about extending BAH benefits for 6 months after education is complete in order to give you time to locate gainful employment, I haven't seen this info anywhere but this thread, is that verified for everyone or an exception to the rule? 4) I applied for Voc Rehab in June, my semester started on August 1st. How long does it usually take after you have contact with your counselor to start utilizing the program, and will it be retroactive to my semester start date, or will I have to wait until the start of my next semester? Sorry for so many questions, but you guys seem to know it all. Thanks for any reaponses.

 

[MusicDOc124]

To be clear - Post 9/11 GI Bill has a 15-year window [someone correct me if I am wrong here], whereas the Montgomery GI Bill has a-10 window to be used. With that said, Voc Rehab has a 12-year window from the date of your C&P % that allowed you to be eligible [for instance, 10% rating in June 2012 with an increase to 20% in June 2013 - your window becomes open and the time clock starts June 2013, but if in June 2012 you had 10% with a serious employment handicap, or 20%+, your window would have started in June 2012).

1) You will receive up to 12 additional months of benefits for educational purposes if that is the reason for its application/approval, so you may have to cover those last 1-2 semesters on your own. If you have a "serious employment handicap," you can go beyond the additional 12 months (beyond the 48 total, such as 52, 56, 60, etc - whatever is needed AND approved).

******** If you have a "serious employment handicap," that 12-year window is, or can be, waived. ********

2) By having any GI Bill remaining (even 1 day) when you begin Voc Rehab, you will receive BAH in place of the stipend for the full duration - however, a form must be signed for this when you are setting everything up, so it is not automatic until that paper is signed. Only when the GI Bill is completely exhausted OR that paper is not signed, you will receive the stipend. So if it is not brought up - mention that you have GI Bill left and would like to keep the BAH instead of the stipend.

3) Yes, for 6 months after you may receive entitlements to aid with finding suitable employment - however, this is only if you really don't have a job. For instance, if you are medical like the vast majority on here - you go straight into a residency, which is considered gainful employment - even though you don't make much, you are making something, and it is part of a well-established process. So it may be unlikely to get that.

4) I'm unsure if they do anything retroactively.

 

[MusicDOc124]

@USMC3097 ^

 

[rikudo]

@USMC3097
1. Voc Rehab will pay 48 months with VRC approval or if you demonstrate SEH. I used half of GI Bill during undergrad and was still approved for 42 month medical program.

2. Post 9/11 BAH the whole time. Keep in mind, save at least 1 day of post 9/11 eligibility at the time of Voc Rehab approval to get BAH. Otherwise you'll only qualify for the Ch 31 stipend. Don't use all you post 9/11!

3. Yes, BAH can be continued until suitable employment is found, up to 6 months of job searching. For example, you get BAH until you start residency in September even though you graduate in May.

4. It varies depending on how smooth your case goes and the disposition of your VRC. My case took about 8 months but that included various appeals, letters and outside evaluations. 2-3 months is typical for less complex cases. There is some form of retroactive reimbursement available though I'm not sure what it all covers. I had to sign a waiver of retroactive reimbursement when my plan was approved.

caveat: this is from my personal experience, YMMV

 

[USMC3097]

To be clear - Post 9/11 GI Bill has a 15-year window [someone correct me if I am wrong here], whereas the Montgomery GI Bill has a-10 window to be used. With that said, Voc Rehab has a 12-year window from the date of your C&P % that allowed you to be eligible [for instance, 10% rating in June 2012 with an increase to 20% in June 2013 - your window becomes open and the time clock starts June 2013, but if in June 2012 you had 10% with a serious employment handicap, or 20%+, your window would have started in June 2012).

1) You will receive up to 12 additional months of benefits for educational purposes if that is the reason for its application/approval, so you may have to cover those last 1-2 semesters on your own. If you have a "serious employment handicap," you can go beyond the additional 12 months (beyond the 48 total, such as 52, 56, 60, etc - whatever is needed AND approved).

******** If you have a "serious employment handicap," that 12-year window is, or can be, waived. ********

2) By having any GI Bill remaining (even 1 day) when you begin Voc Rehab, you will receive BAH in place of the stipend for the full duration - however, a form must be signed for this when you are setting everything up, so it is not automatic until that paper is signed. Only when the GI Bill is completely exhausted OR that paper is not signed, you will receive the stipend. So if it is not brought up - mention that you have GI Bill left and would like to keep the BAH instead of the stipend.

3) Yes, for 6 months after you may receive entitlements to aid with finding suitable employment - however, this is only if you really don't have a job. For instance, if you are medical like the vast majority on here - you go straight into a residency, which is considered gainful employment - even though you don't make much, you are making something, and it is part of a well-established process. So it may be unlikely to get that.

4) I'm unsure if they do anything retroactively.

Thank you, very good info