VA Psychiatry Questions

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J ROD said:
Are there opportunities for ECT at the VA? I would assume at larger centers.
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There definitely are. I work at a mid-size VA right now and we average fifteen per week.
 
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J ROD said:
Are there opportunities for ECT at the VA? I would assume at larger centers.
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Yup. We also can do ketamine and TMS at my location. Lots of great options for those interested...
 
I am bumping this thread to see if anyone can clue me in on the hiring process at the VA, specifically the revealing of the pay level one can expect.

I recently entered the VA hiring "tunnel" and was told it can take 6 months from start to finish, something I am OK with. I made contact with someone at a VA outpatient clinic in a desired location, and I had an onsite interview with the medical director. However, when I inquired about the pay, he said he did not know that information...yadda yadda yadda...need to talk to someone up the food chain.

So when, exactly, in this process can I expect to be told the pay level? In the meantime I am looking at other jobs - no way I will hold my breath on the VA - but it seems absurd to me that they can't tell you anything about the pay for the job you have applied for at the time of the interview, or at least early in the 6 month process vs closer to the actual hire/start date. Based on what I am reading here and elsewhere, the pay could be as low as, what? 180k? Or possibly around $220k, if not more? That is quite a spread, and frankly, I don't understand how or why they can't be more forthcoming early on in the process.

Is it kosher to apply to and interview at multiple VA locations at the same time? I might do that, but without knowing the ballpark pay grade for the gig, I am not sure I want to waste my time.
 
Yeah, it's ok to interview at multiple VAs and people do all the time. Don't wait for them to offer you a salary, they will just offer you bottom dollar if you do that. Tell them what you think is fair for your area and required responsibilities and ask them to make you a counter offer. Max salary is generally capped at $264k for full time psychiatrists in the VA. The department chief and HR are your points of contact for negotiations.
 
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Hey, guys. Resident in my final year in a non-psychiatry specialty interested in applying for a VA job. Very few people on my specialty forum work for the VA or can provide details, whereas there seems to be much more info here, so pardon the invasion of your forum. My question deals with the online application process. I had all of my material uploaded on the USAJobs site, but when I finished that and was sent to the main website, it asks a final series of questions before the application is submitted; these questions assess whether the applicant meets the requirements for the job, and you must select "yes" for each for your app not to get electronically tossed. One of these questions is "have you completed residency?" Well, of course I have not. I am in my final year. Every single one of my uploaded documents says I will not finish until June of next year; not trying to hide that fact. I am tempted to click "yes," as I will have finished by the time I am available to work, but they have this lovely, menacing warning just above the "submit application" button regarding submitting false information, so I have not submitted the application. The medical director at the site has not been able to advise me how to proceed, but this electronic process sure seems incredibly dumb, as it technically prohibits senior residents from applying for a job. Anybody have any thoughts or know what sort of person or department at the VA I should contact about this? HR maybe? Do I really need to wait to have finished residency before submitting this application? Thanks.
 
Cinclus said:
Hey, guys. Resident in my final year in a non-psychiatry specialty interested in applying for a VA job. Very few people on my specialty forum work for the VA or can provide details, whereas there seems to be much more info here, so pardon the invasion of your forum. My question deals with the online application process. I had all of my material uploaded on the USAJobs site, but when I finished that and was sent to the main website, it asks a final series of questions before the application is submitted; these questions assess whether the applicant meets the requirements for the job, and you must select "yes" for each for your app not to get electronically tossed. One of these questions is "have you completed residency?" Well, of course I have not. I am in my final year. Every single one of my uploaded documents says I will not finish until June of next year; not trying to hide that fact. I am tempted to click "yes," as I will have finished by the time I am available to work, but they have this lovely, menacing warning just above the "submit application" button regarding submitting false information, so I have not submitted the application. The medical director at the site has not been able to advise me how to proceed, but this electronic process sure seems incredibly dumb, as it technically prohibits senior residents from applying for a job. Anybody have any thoughts or know what sort of person or department at the VA I should contact about this? HR maybe? Do I really need to wait to have finished residency before submitting this application? Thanks.
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I know too many people who applied for VA jobs while still in residency for that to be an actual problem for getting the job, but it may very well be a limitation of the USAJobs app. However, that observation does not answer your question RE how to do the form on USAJobs, but the advice I got was to avoid USAJobs and directly contact the VA where you want to apply/work. I did that a few months ago, interviewed, and recently they forwarded some documents I had to fill out to send to HR, and there was no question asking about if I had finished residency that I recall, and regardless, I was finished with residency at the time of filling in blanks on a PDF that I printed off, signed, and faxed to HR, so if there was a question, maybe I fail to remember it.

In the very least you should try to contact someone in the VA HR department and ask your question, but this would probably need to be directed to USAJobs, too. I am in the first few months of the VA job hiring process tunnel, which I have been told can take up to 6 months, so that alone should tell you that the VA has to accommodate folks who are still in residency if they ever hope to hire people directly out of residency, which they most certainly do.

Good luck.
 
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AD04 said:
Management are not known for their decency. They will push and push as long as they can get away with it.

They will only back off if you stop complying with their ridiculous demands. Or by imposing ridiculous demands on them. (They want you to see more patients? Demand more pay and more ancillary staff.)

If you don't meet their demands, what can they do? Fire you?

It is easier for you to get another job than them getting another psychiatrist.

My friend applied for jobs in the VA in his home state. The administration there kept stringing him along without a definite contract. So he accepted a position in another state. The psychiatrist in the first VA left and guess who came crawling asking my friend if he wanted a job?

Of course his answer was no.

---

This wasn't the VA, but it deals with administration:

It happened with me where the administrator kept demand something. For the first two times, I complied. I wanted to keep the peace. But after each compliance, demands increased. It was getting ridiculous to the point I had to do all this extra unnecessary work every day. She was never satisfied.

So I told her, "We can keep things as is or I will go work for your competitor." Her attitude and tone changed from demanding to supplicating. She made one final request. I ignored her request and kept things as is. Haven't heard a peep since.

Don't feel bad about playing hardball, because since medical school and residency, most likely you've been pushed around. Now that the power shifts to you, you no longer have to be meek and compliant. You can actually get your way.
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100% this! What are they going to do, fire me? I do good pt care and started ignoring all the BS. I don't do meetings or template changes or whatever other paper pushing nonsense they cook up. I do psychiatry. Take it or leave it. Push back guys. It's liberating.
 
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Bump.

Wondering if any of you good people can update on the current state of VA Psychiatry. Strongly considering working at one of the outpatient clinics after residency.
 
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wolfvgang22 said:
What specifically do you want to know? Not much has changed in the last 5 years.
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I'll be finishing residency soon, with a significant loan burden. I'm hoping to take advantage of the EDRP. From what I was told, this is a "first come-first served" benefit, but it's a major part of my plan of starting out working for the VA. Looking at one of the outpatient CBOCs.
Also, I've gotten conflicting reports about salary. Some say it's fixed, others (more senior than me) say everything is negotiable.
Lastly, I'm hoping to work a compressed schedule or have some sort of flexibility besides the rote M-F 8-4:30. Was hoping to get some anecdotal information from people with experience in this regard.

Thanks in advance
 
Achillees said:
I'll be finishing residency soon, with a significant loan burden. I'm hoping to take advantage of the EDRP. From what I was told, this is a "first come-first served" benefit, but it's a major part of my plan of starting out working for the VA. Looking at one of the outpatient CBOCs.
Also, I've gotten conflicting reports about salary. Some say it's fixed, others (more senior than me) say everything is negotiable.
Lastly, I'm hoping to work a compressed schedule or have some sort of flexibility besides the rote M-F 8-4:30. Was hoping to get some anecdotal information from people with experience in this regard.

Thanks in advance
Click to expand...
Pay isn't frozen for clinical staff. I received a 7% raise last month. I will likely receive a 15% performance bonus in March for exceeding expectations. Locality pay increase was mainly for a few big metro areas with high cost of living. In general, there is an annual salary cap of $264,000 for psychiatrists, as that is the maximum Congress has authorized by law to pay a staff psychiatrist, but locality pay might increase that. It is negotiable with each individual VA. Just like any job, local hospital politics, personalities, funds, and need all factor into how willing they are to work with you on schedule and pay. Each VA has a lot of wiggle room within their regulations. It mainly depends on how badly local administration want to hire you. The hiring process is long and bureaucratic with a lot of incompetence by HR staff you have to call or email daily to remind them to do their job. There are some good ones, though and if you are fortunate you may work with one. Polite persistence goes a long way.

Usually VA will work with you on schedule. They usually want someone who is willing to work Saturday or evenings. Like most jobs, they will also try to get the most work out of you for the least money, and there are always things they want you to do after hiring that didn't come up in interviews, like most jobs. If you don't accept a signing bonus you can walk away, there is no contract, because it is at will employment. If you accept a signing bonus to stay 2 or three years you have to pay it back if you leave early.

EDRP is first come first serve, and you can get up to $24,000 to match what you pay to your loans annually for up to 5 years. The actual amount they will agree to match depends on how much EDRP money your particular VA has left when you apply, as they get one bucket of EDRP funds to spread around. Psychiatrists are high need per Congress so if you apply for EDRP at the same time as, say, a NP or nurse or surgeon, you get the EDRP money first. With EDRP you pay your loans monthly and at the end of the fiscal year in October the VA then disperses the matching funds to you. If you don't pay at least 75% annualy what you agreed to pay to your loans you are kicked out of the EDRP program.
 
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I was approved for EDRP and am significantly invested in PSLF, with just a few years to go. Anyone doing both? Both VA and Fedloans reps have informed me that EDRP will not affect PSLF qualifying payments; is anyone else in a similar scenario? There's no applicable fine print available online that would indicate that participation in the EDRP would invalidate PSLF qualifying payments. I'm planning on using EDRP to its fullest extent as a safety mechanism in case any new legislative issues arise in a few years which may affect forgiveness or place a cap on forgiven amounts.
 
wolfvgang22 said:
Pay isn't frozen for clinical staff. I received a 7% raise last month. I will likely receive a 15% performance bonus in March for exceeding expectations. Locality pay increase was mainly for a few big metro areas with high cost of living. In general, there is an annual salary cap of $264,000 for psychiatrists, as that is the maximum Congress has authorized by law to pay a staff psychiatrist, but locality pay might increase that. It is negotiable with each individual VA. Just like any job, local hospital politics, personalities, funds, and need all factor into how willing they are to work with you on schedule and pay. Each VA has a lot of wiggle room within their regulations. It mainly depends on how badly local administration want to hire you. The hiring process is long and bureaucratic with a lot of incompetence by HR staff you have to call or email daily to remind them to do their job. There are some good ones, though and if you are fortunate you may work with one. Polite persistence goes a long way.

Usually VA will work with you on schedule. They usually want someone who is willing to work Saturday or evenings. Like most jobs, they will also try to get the most work out of you for the least money, and there are always things they want you to do after hiring that didn't come up in interviews, like most jobs. If you don't accept a signing bonus you can walk away, there is no contract, because it is at will employment. If you accept a signing bonus to stay 2 or three years you have to pay it back if you leave early.

EDRP is first come first serve, and you can get up to $24,000 to match what you pay to your loans annually for up to 5 years. The actual amount they will agree to match depends on how much EDRP money your particular VA has left when you apply, as they get one bucket of EDRP funds to spread around. Psychiatrists are high need per Congress so if you apply for EDRP at the same time as, say, a NP or nurse or surgeon, you get the EDRP money first. With EDRP you pay your loans monthly and at the end of the fiscal year in October the VA then disperses the matching funds to you. If you don't pay at least 75% annualy what you agreed to pay to your loans you are kicked out of the EDRP program.
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Thank you for responding. I have some follow-up questions if you don't mind.
Can you explain further about the 'first come, first serve' basis? As in, is it better to apply closer to October since that's the end of the fiscal year (with enough time allotted for bureaucratic incompetence of course)?
Also, is EDRP one and done, or do you have to reapply annually for 5 years?
Is the amount ($24K) taxable?
What determines how much you get annually (re: up to $24K), total amount of the loans or how much you've paid annually?
Sounds like there's an agreed upon annual payment amount. Does that mean the repayment is dollar-for-dollar? You'd have to pay $24K to get the full $24K?

I can see a fairly long career w/ the VA if I can get my desired schedule and loan repayment, but I'm not holding my breath. I'm in a fairly large city with relatively less shortage of Psychiatrists compared to flyover states.

Thanks again.
 
SomeDoc said:
I was approved for EDRP and am significantly invested in PSLF, with just a few years to go. Anyone doing both? Both VA and Fedloans reps have informed me that EDRP will not affect PSLF qualifying payments; is anyone else in a similar scenario? There's no applicable fine print available online that would indicate that participation in the EDRP would invalidate PSLF qualifying payments. I'm planning on using EDRP to its fullest extent as a safety mechanism in case any new legislative issues arise in a few years which may affect forgiveness or place a cap on forgiven amounts.
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Sorry, not specifically answering to your question.
That sounds like a great plan. Still a resident, so no EDRP yet, but I do want to combine EDRP and PSLF. My plan is to pay off my loans within 5 years, so PSLF may be worthless for me by then, since I wouldn't have 120 qualifying payments. And probably not much loans left to forgive. The catharsis of paying of the student loans earlier is more enticing than using both programs.
Were you able to get EDRP same application year, or did you have to wait for approval?
 
J ROD said:
Just for info purposes. Can get over 300K with retention and bonus money. Offer was about 325K + EDRP for inpatient or outpatient. Very needed.
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As a physician and pharmacist?
Is this in the midwest?
 
Achillees said:
Thank you for responding. I have some follow-up questions if you don't mind.
Can you explain further about the 'first come, first serve' basis? As in, is it better to apply closer to October since that's the end of the fiscal year (with enough time allotted for bureaucratic incompetence of course)?
Also, is EDRP one and done, or do you have to reapply annually for 5 years?
Is the amount ($24K) taxable?
What determines how much you get annually (re: up to $24K), total amount of the loans or how much you've paid annually?
Sounds like there's an agreed upon annual payment amount. Does that mean the repayment is dollar-for-dollar? You'd have to pay $24K to get the full $24K?

I can see a fairly long career w/ the VA if I can get my desired schedule and loan repayment, but I'm not holding my breath. I'm in a fairly large city with relatively less shortage of Psychiatrists compared to flyover states.

Thanks again.
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Let HR know you want to apply for EDRP immediately, don't wait for October. The VA can be incredibly slow and incompetent on the non-clinical side of the organization. They lost my paperwork for 6 months initially.
It starts as soon as it is approved. You only apply once, not annually. EDRP is not taxable. EDRP can pay up to $24,000 yearly for 5 years, which means you would pay $2,000 per month to your loans of you have $240,000 or more in loans. If you have less loans, you get less. The most money you can get out of EDRP is $120,000 total over 5 years.
Yes, it is dollar for dollar.
 
wolfvgang22 said:
Let HR know you want to apply for EDRP immediately, don't wait for October. The VA can be incredibly slow and incompetent on the non-clinical side of the organization. They lost my paperwork for 6 months initially.
It starts as soon as it is approved. You only apply once, not annually. EDRP is not taxable. EDRP can pay up to $24,000 yearly for 5 years, which means you would pay $2,000 per month to your loans of you have $240,000 or more in loans. If you have less loans, you get less. The most money you can get out of EDRP is $120,000 total over 5 years.
Yes, it is dollar for dollar.
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You've been tremendously helpful. Thank you.
When would you say is a good time to begin application? January of 4th year?
Also, do you have to be full-time equivalent to qualify?
 
J ROD said:
just as a psychiatrist in southeast. Probably could push for more. I have routinely gotten offers in this area around 300K. Good time to be a psychiatrist.....looking like the "new" derm haha
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Huh. I'm also in the Southeast and was told the starting for all Psychiatrists is $205K w/ maybe $15K performance bonus, no mention of retention. Are you in a major metropolitan city?
 
Achillees said:
Huh. I'm also in the Southeast and was told the starting for all Psychiatrists is $205K w/ maybe $15K performance bonus, no mention of retention. Are you in a major metropolitan city?
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no. very high need area. hence why they will pay that much. It is not the ideal situation.
 
wolfvgang22 said:
Let HR know you want to apply for EDRP immediately, don't wait for October. The VA can be incredibly slow and incompetent on the non-clinical side of the organization. They lost my paperwork for 6 months initially.
It starts as soon as it is approved. You only apply once, not annually. EDRP is not taxable. EDRP can pay up to $24,000 yearly for 5 years, which means you would pay $2,000 per month to your loans of you have $240,000 or more in loans. If you have less loans, you get less. The most money you can get out of EDRP is $120,000 total over 5 years.
Yes, it is dollar for dollar.
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The tax-free EDRP benefit is great since it is tax free.

But will eligible VA employees still receive their EDRP reimbursements from the U.S. Treasury during the government shutdown?
 
Achillees said:
Huh. I'm also in the Southeast and was told the starting for all Psychiatrists is $205K w/ maybe $15K performance bonus, no mention of retention. Are you in a major metropolitan city?
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That's low, although it depends on what you mean by Southeast. Southeast like Atlanta or metro Florida or southeast like South Carolina?
 
prominence said:
The tax-free EDRP benefit is great since it is tax free.

But will eligible VA employees still receive their EDRP reimbursements from the U.S. Treasury during the government shutdown?
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Yes. The VA is funded two years in advance by the budget, precisely to avoid veteran healthcare being affected by these political shut downs. Congress does a few things right.
 
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