USC "First Year" Total Cost is now $133k for 2016-17.

[Cold Front]

This is 3% increase from last year. In 4 years, if the rate increase holds, they will cross the $150k mark for just year 1.

In 2012-2013 entering class (this year's graduating class), paid $20k less for each student for the same first year, for those who used the direct and indirect cost - which is the majority of students.

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[BeaverLover]

So why exactly does USC charge higher than most? Does it have better technology?

 

[lazyindy]

So why exactly does USC charge higher than most? Does it have better technology?

Uncle sam is ready to give out loans to just about anyone, so they charge whatever they like.

 

[BeaverLover]

Uncle sam is ready to give out loans to just about anyone, so they charge whatever they like.

Yeah I was hoping they weren't doing it just cause they can lol

 

[cmcner]

They do University wide tuition hikes, it's the same for every USC school, except USC dental is pretty much the only trimester program. Weird that I just graduated two years ago and will owe $100k less than the students that start next year.

 

[DrJeff]

Crazy!!! The repayment on that is stifling, and that doesn't even take into account any possible undergrad debt or additional debt that one may incur in a residency program!!

Hope that USC has as part of their didactic program many courses across all 4 years stressing the importance of living like a pauper for a number of years given how burdensome repaying those loans for many students will be!! Someone with a decent amount of undergrad loans and then adding that dental school debt will likely be looking at 1 MILLION dollars of debt by the time you add interest in to the repayment, and that's before they consider a home purchase or practice buy-in, let alone things like saving for future kids educations and one's own retirement

There comes a time when the debt load eventually crosses the threshold from manageable to unmanageable, and if this isn't there yet, it's getting mighty, mighty close given the business climates and the likely changes to dental reimbursements that the profession is rapidly facing

 

[frozenicecreamDMD]

OP,

USC's first year estimate of 133k is not really correct and is actually on the low side, they make you buy the dental instrument kit first year and loupes and laptop that will cost 20k (for the kit) + 2k (for the loupe)

plus, even in the first year when you use SIM lab, you need to use your own credit card to buy replacements for dull parts like diamond burs, etc.

so the financial aid representative says that the first year cost is actually near 140-150k.

 

[Cold Front]

OP,

USC's first year estimate of 133k is not really correct and is actually on the low side, they make you buy the dental instrument kit first year and loupes and laptop that will cost 20k (for the kit) + 2k (for the loupe)

plus, even in the first year when you use SIM lab, you need to use your own credit card to buy replacements for dull parts like diamond burs, etc.

so the financial aid representative says that the first year cost is actually near 140-150k.

That's even worse.

 

[deleted390966]

This is 3% increase from last year. In 4 years, if the rate increase holds, they will cross the $150k mark for just year 1.

In 2012-2013 entering class (this year's graduating class), paid $20k less for each student for the same first year, for those who used the direct and indirect cost - which is the majority of students.

http://dentistry.usc.edu/programs/dds/cost-of-attendance/

Yeah I was hoping they weren't doing it just cause they can lol

I don't think it's because of ease of federal loans. Let's say if you got into USC (your only acceptance) but had to borrow private loans, would you go or not? Most people would. (Some private loans have lower interest rates than fed loans, btw). So even if federal loans are harder to get, it won't deter most people. Something needs to be done about the cost of education itself.

 

[Incis0r]

http://dentistry.usc.edu/programs/dds/cost-of-attendance/


I don't think it's because of ease of federal loans. Let's say if you got into USC (your only acceptance) but had to borrow private loans, would you go or not? Most people would. (Some private loans have lower interest rates than fed loans, btw). So even if federal loans are harder to get, it won't deter most people. Something needs to be done about the cost of education itself.

Wouldn't private lenders demand a cosigner/credit check? I think there are more checks against unlimited tuition increase in the private loans system.

 

[480640]

.

 

[DoctaFauci]

Our school was one of the more expensive public schools in the country. Since the state reduced funding exponentially over the course of a few years, tuition was more similar to private, and to make up for it we started enrolling a lot more OOS students who pay similar to this. The state legislators' collective response is simply: supply and demand. If you have no lack of qualified applicants, just charge more to make up for budget deficits.

As long as students are dumb enough to pay that much money (especially when there are 5 other CA schools with potential plans to open more, and neighboring AZ, UW, OR), USC has no incentive to maintain or decrease inflation on that tuition. I'm not sure if ADEA makes schools justify their tuition/fees, but I assume they have to for accreditation. So I would expect that conversation to continue.

No, a 4-year dental education is not worth $500,000 unless you have Uncle Sam paying or a rich grandparent trying to reduce their inheritance tax burden. You'd also be stupid to pay that much and then try to find a job in a saturated area like LA, SD, or SF. That's financial suicide and patients will ultimately suffer from over treatment and creative diagnosis.

 

[Cold Front]

Our school was one of the more expensive public schools in the country. Since the state reduced funding exponentially over the course of a few years, tuition was more similar to private, and to make up for it we started enrolling a lot more OOS students who pay similar to this. The state legislators' collective response is simply: supply and demand. If you have no lack of qualified applicants, just charge more to make up for budget deficits.

As long as students are dumb enough to pay that much money (especially when there are 5 other CA schools with potential plans to open more, and neighboring AZ, UW, OR), USC has no incentive to maintain or decrease inflation on that tuition. I'm not sure if ADEA makes schools justify their tuition/fees, but I assume they have to for accreditation. So I would expect that conversation to continue.

No, a 4-year dental education is not worth $500,000 unless you have Uncle Sam paying or a rich grandparent trying to reduce their inheritance tax burden. You'd also be stupid to pay that much and then try to find a job in a saturated area like LA, SD, or SF. That's financial suicide and patients will ultimately suffer from over treatment and creative diagnosis.

Midwestern Dental cost of attendance: $519k (includes living off-campus).

https://www.midwestern.edu/Documents/Financial Aid documents/COA Forms/2016-17 IL/DENTAL_IL1617 final.pdf

They actually take pride in raising that number 4-7% a year. Which means $25-35k every 4 years.

 

[gatorfan99]

They will keep increasing their fees for as long they can.. why? Because people keep applying to their school... The easy and obvious solution: don't apply to USC!! They are ripping us off and laughing all the way to the bank.

If you are desperate to go to dental school, take a deep breath, don't get emotional, think long term and make a good financial decision = borrowing almost 1 million dollars in loans is a HORRIBLE financial decision, you are better off working somewhere for a year and re-applying..

 

[cmcner]

They will keep increasing their fees for as long they can.. why? Because people keep applying to their school... The easy and obvious solution: don't apply to USC!! They are ripping us off and laughing all the way to the bank.

If you are desperate to go to dental school, take a deep breath, don't get emotional, think long term and make a good financial decision = borrowing almost 1 million dollars in loans is a HORRIBLE financial decision, you are better off working somewhere for a year and re-applying..

So most people only have one or less state schools with less than 150 slots a year for the whole state, some times drastically less, and some of those slots go to out of state students because they are more profitable in most states. So it isn't possible for everyone of the 4500 people that enroll each year to go that route like people love to say it is here, on a side note it isn't possible for everyone to get the military scholarship as everyone loves to say here too. Also lots of those state schools are approaching or exceeding $300,000 for in state students at this point, so it doesn't make a lot of sense to cross your fingers and reject offers losing one, two or three years of 6 figure income with the hope that you get into that other school that for some reason might want you next year when they had no interest this year. I got rejected by my state school two times, how much faith should I have put into a third attempt? Also after 3 years of waiting if you only get into that same school and decide to go expect to pay 9-15% ($45,000-$75,000)more than if you went the first year thanks to tuition increases of 3-5% each year at all schools.

 

[frozenicecreamDMD]

So most people only have one or less state schools with less than 150 slots a year for the whole state, some times drastically less, and some of those slots go to out of state students because they are more profitable in most states. So it isn't possible for everyone of the 4500 people that enroll each year to go that route like people love to say it is here, on a side note it isn't possible for everyone to get the military scholarship as everyone loves to say here too. Also lots of those state schools are approaching or exceeding $300,000 for in state students at this point, so it doesn't make a lot of sense to cross your fingers and reject offers losing one, two or three years of 6 figure income with the hope that you get into that other school that for some reason might want you next year when they had no interest this year. I got rejected by my state school two times, how much faith should I have put into a third attempt? Also after 3 years of waiting if you only get into that same school and decide to go expect to pay 9-15% ($45,000-$75,000)more than if you went the first year thanks to tuition increases of 3-5% each year at all schools.

Hello,

since you graduated from USC2014, I think the state school you refer to is UCLA right?, back when you applied, have you considered out of state schools that grant in state after one year? or out of state but less expensive dental schools (CRWU, creighton, UDM) than USC?

If a public school out of state that accepts nonresident students and make them pay nonresident tuition and fee for four years, these students are better off attending one of the less expensive private schools.

since you graduate from 2014, your debtload must be 400k$ without living expense. are you still working in CA? or you leave out of state for better income and work environment?

is it true that USC reputation is only hyped in Socal and once you cross CA border, it is just the skills and the personal attributes that define you as a dentist?

 

[Cold Front]

So most people only have one or less state schools with less than 150 slots a year for the whole state, some times drastically less, and some of those slots go to out of state students because they are more profitable in most states. So it isn't possible for everyone of the 4500 people that enroll each year to go that route like people love to say it is here, on a side note it isn't possible for everyone to get the military scholarship as everyone loves to say here too. Also lots of those state schools are approaching or exceeding $300,000 for in state students at this point, so it doesn't make a lot of sense to cross your fingers and reject offers losing one, two or three years of 6 figure income with the hope that you get into that other school that for some reason might want you next year when they had no interest this year. I got rejected by my state school two times, how much faith should I have put into a third attempt? Also after 3 years of waiting if you only get into that same school and decide to go expect to pay 9-15% ($45,000-$75,000)more than if you went the first year thanks to tuition increases of 3-5% each year at all schools.

I would add that at least 50% of dental schools now charge $400k+ for 4 years dental programs. The rest are $200-300k (including state schools) with living expenses. So you could save $100-200k by reapplying, but then income potential loss for each year will be 6 figures ($110-130k), plus you will face additional tuition increase at the program you are reapplying (3-4%) for each year of the academic program (possibly additional $20-30k total).

 

[cmcner]

Hello,

since you graduated from USC2014, I think the state school you refer to is UCLA right?, back when you applied, have you considered out of state schools that grant in state after one year? or out of state but less expensive dental schools (CRWU, creighton, UDM) than USC?

If a public school out of state that accepts nonresident students and make them pay nonresident tuition and fee for four years, these students are better off attending one of the less expensive private schools.

since you graduate from 2014, your debtload must be 400k$ without living expense. are you still working in CA? or you leave out of state for better income and work environment?

is it true that USC reputation is only hyped in Socal and once you cross CA border, it is just the skills and the personal attributes that define you as a dentist?

I'm not a California native and never applied to the CA state schools, but they do fit my example. I did apply to creighton and udm and got an interview at one but didn't get in. The list you have created including states that grant in state tuition after the first year amounts to a very small number of spots in the country. Also those schools often know your tricks and make the first year super expensive for out of state. I moved out of state after I graduated to a state with a great dental market. USC does produce good general dentists and I did get my job from USC alumni so I guess I have benefitted from the network, but I do agree it is overpriced and just getting worse pricewise.

 

[frozenicecreamDMD]

I'm not a California native and never applied to the CA state schools, but they do fit my example. I did apply to creighton and udm and got an interview at one but didn't get in. The list you have created including states that grant in state tuition after the first year amounts to a very small number of spots in the country. Also those schools often know your tricks and make the first year super expensive for out of state. I moved out of state after I graduated to a state with a great dental market. USC does produce good general dentists and I did get my job from USC alumni so I guess I have benefitted from the network, but I do agree it is overpriced and just getting worse pricewise.

Thank you for your answer.

Do you think the current dentist salary in non-saturated area can allow graduates pay off their loans with ease, given the max amount of their total loan (undergrad + dental school) to be 300k? May you also let me know the states that you think have great - okay dental martket now?

and if you take on 500k debt, I guess it will be wiser to not specialize and start to work immediately in states with good dental market to pay it off rather than specializing, taking on more debt, and entering IRB?

 

[cmcner]

Thank you for your answer.

Do you think the current dentist salary in non-saturated area can allow graduates pay off their loans with ease, given the max amount of their total loan (undergrad + dental school) to be 300k? May you also let me know the states that you think have great - okay dental martket now?

and if you take on 500k debt, I guess it will be wiser to not specialize and start to work immediately in states with good dental market to pay it off rather than specializing, taking on more debt, and entering IRB?

It's possible but never easy to pay off hundreds of thousands worth of debt. States with good Medicaid benefits and fee schedules tend to have jobs that pay better whether your practice accepts it or not. You can google the different fee schedules for different states. If you take on $500,000+ of debt I'd suggest an income based repayment or public service loan forgiveness. I know one person doing $6000 a month payments for ten years but that is not my approach.

 

[Judgment Dragon]

Is dentistry oversaturated in CA, NY, etc.?

 

[Cold Front]

Is dentistry oversaturated in CA, NY, etc.?

Generally yes, but there are always pockets with low saturation.

 

[Ioannes Paulus]

Midwestern Dental cost of attendance: $519k (includes living off-campus).

https://www.midwestern.edu/Documents/Financial Aid documents/COA Forms/2016-17 IL/DENTAL_IL1617 final.pdf

They actually take pride in raising that number 4-7% a year. Which means $25-35k every 4 years.

The Dental Facilities at Midwestern in Chicago are amazing!
Their medical school tuition is the most expensive program in the nation. In the past few years, you can see in the medical school forums that students have rejected admission offers from Midwestern for other significantly less "prestigious" schools because the cost is unbearable. I'm sure the dental school admission students do the same.

Why are dental schools so expensive?

 

[gatorfan99]

The Dental Facilities at Midwestern in Chicago are amazing!
Their medical school tuition is the most expensive program in the nation. In the past few years, you can see in the medical school forums that students have rejected admission offers from Midwestern for other significantly less "prestigious" schools because the cost is unbearable. I'm sure the dental school admission students do the same.

Why are dental schools so expensive?

Dental schools are an expensive business to run.. much more so than medical schools. We require very expensive equipment and very expensive personnel.

Also, dental school applicants are notoriously desperate to get in and, some, will go anywhere, no matter the cost. This is in part due to this (completely false) fantasy that we will all make tons of money right out school and barely work for it. USC and other high cost schools (i.e. BU, Tufts, NYU, etc, etc) know this and capitalize on it...

 

[Cold Front]

Dental schools are an expensive business to run.. much more so than medical schools.

Some schools are apparently operating in the red,. They have no choice but to increase tuition to balance their books.

The faculty at the University of Washington’s School of Dentistry say the plan to reduce the school’s $29 million deficit is full of erroneous assumptions. Faculty leaders recommend closing a UW-run clinic in Magnuson Park and admitting more high-tuition international students.

Kalob Lesh, a third-year dental student and president of the dental school’s class of 2017, chose the UW because of its affordability. But with the steep tuition increases and other costs, he now expects to graduate owing more than $300,000, including accrued interest, in student loans. Students who start now will likely owe $400,000 when they’re done because of the tuition increases, he said.

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...tal-faculty-slams-deans-fiscal-recovery-plan/

 

[Cold Front]

Crazy!!! The repayment on that is stifling, and that doesn't even take into account any possible undergrad debt or additional debt that one may incur in a residency program!!

Hope that USC has as part of their didactic program many courses across all 4 years stressing the importance of living like a pauper for a number of years given how burdensome repaying those loans for many students will be!! Someone with a decent amount of undergrad loans and then adding that dental school debt will likely be looking at 1 MILLION dollars of debt by the time you add interest in to the repayment, and that's before they consider a home purchase or practice buy-in, let alone things like saving for future kids educations and one's own retirement

There comes a time when the debt load eventually crosses the threshold from manageable to unmanageable, and if this isn't there yet, it's getting mighty, mighty close given the business climates and the likely changes to dental reimbursements that the profession is rapidly facing

Actual first year total cost for this school is closer to $135k.

http://dentistry.usc.edu/programs/dds/cost-of-attendance/

 

[cmcner]

Actual first year total cost for this school is closer to $135k.

http://dentistry.usc.edu/programs/dds/cost-of-attendance/

And the bubble grows

 

[Ioannes Paulus]

Actual first year total cost for this school is closer to $135k.

http://dentistry.usc.edu/programs/dds/cost-of-attendance/

OH MY GOD!! $80k for tuition alone? Why don't the students revolt or protest or something? That's crazy and unacceptable. I've been to USC and the dental school is literally 1 small building (when compared to the other buildings on campus)

 

[Cold Front]

OH MY GOD!! $80k for tuition alone? Why don't the students revolt or protest or something? That's crazy and unacceptable. I've been to USC and the dental school is literally 1 small building (when compared to the other buildings on campus)

Well, the students are already accepted into the program. They can't revolt after they already paid for all the cost. Everything will go up next year by another 3-4%, so $140k first year for the people applying and interviewing this year. I'm sure they are aware of the cost and hopefully make an informed financial decision.

Maybe the demand and supply curve hasn't reached its limits. Until then, people will continue to pay these high fees.

 

[CMistry]

As difficult as dental school it to get into, they will (sadly) have no problem filling these $500,000 seats. Very few college students are well-informed on finances and student debt to understand what size hole they're digging. Compounded by the fact that most think "I'll be rich as a dentist so it's worth it anyways."

 

[ncide]

As difficult as dental school it to get into, they will (sadly) have no problem filling these $500,000 seats. Very few college students are well-informed on finances and student debt to understand what size hole they're digging. Compounded by the fact that most think "I'll be rich as a dentist so it's worth it anyways."

Across the country, many schools now charge this much. A cursory look in the ADEA book will show that the vast majority of schools now cost 90-100k a year. I will attend a public institution and it the estimated cost for this year is $113,000. USC, NYU and others may no longer be an outlier when it comes to expensive schools.

 

[lazyindy]

As difficult as dental school it to get into, they will (sadly) have no problem filling these $500,000 seats. Very few college students are well-informed on finances and student debt to understand what size hole they're digging. Compounded by the fact that most think "I'll be rich as a dentist so it's worth it anyways."

this. I'm still debating whether I should attend NYU or not and have been talking to some of the people in the 2020 group. Almost all of them said this EXACT same phrase when I asked how they will tackle the debt. One even told me 'that I worry about money too much, and I should focus on studying and doing well in school.'

It's almost criminal how our education system teaches kids NOTHING in regard to personal finance at all. w0w

 

[frozenicecreamDMD]

welll, at this rate of ridiculous debt load for private schools, I won't worry about rampant opening of new dental schools anytime soon.

 

[Cold Front]

welll, at this rate of ridiculous debt load for private schools, I won't worry about rampant opening of new dental schools anytime soon.

New York Medical College has a new dental program, Touro, with inaugural class starting next month, July 2016.

Historically, at least 5 programs open every 5-10 years. So we will probably see new programs in the coming years. They are usually the most expensive programs too, some at $500k+ total debt.

 

[frozenicecreamDMD]

New York Medical College has a new dental program, Touro, with inaugural class starting next month, July 2016.

Historically, at least 5 programs open every 5-10 years. So we will probably see new programs in the coming years. They are usually the most expensive programs too, some at $500k+ total debt.

yea 5 programs arent that much compared to 2-3 new programs everyyear. but once too many school reach 500k$, students will surely hesitate to commit

especially when more of the 500k$ debt dentists work and share their loan service experiencd

 

[hellofuturedentists]

yea 5 programs arent that much compared to 2-3 new programs everyyear. but once too many school reach 500k$, students will surely hesitate to commit

especially when more of the 500k$ debt dentists work and share their loan service experiencd

Lol you underestimate desperation and ignorance

 

[frozenicecreamDMD]

yea desperation and ignorance will get our best but when debt load goes to 600k people will hesitate.

now a significant but small population of students already hesitate and opt out of applying to 400-450k dental schools, it will hopefully just grow as time passes.