USC First Year Cost of Attendance $137k 2017/2018

Discussion in 'Dental' started by Cold Front, Apr 13, 2017.

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  1. Cold Front

    Cold Front Supreme Member 10+ Year Member

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    Couple of students I mentor shared the 2017-2018 USC cost of attendance for the incoming class to be $136,589 (first year alone).

    That's about 1.5% jump from last year's numbers, the lowest increase probably for a long time.

    Historically they have been rising for 3-4% on average a year:

    2012: $114k
    2013: $123k
    2014: $127k
    2015: $130k
    2016: $134k
    2017: $137k
    2018: ?

    Tuition increases could be cooling off, as undergraduate costs sharply increased in recent years.
     
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  3. Likkriue

    Likkriue

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    Jesus save me.
     
  4. MahiMahi

    MahiMahi Optimism 5+ Year Member

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    Up in the air
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  5. Likkriue

    Likkriue

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    You mean almost 3/4 of a million.
     
  6. Big Time Hoosier

    Big Time Hoosier Man. Myth. Legend. 2+ Year Member

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    They'll be bumping up against $600,000! We're starting to get stupid here, real stupid. These poor souls are going to have to come up with $50,000+ every year for the next two decades just for student loans, never mind all of the other expenses life throws at you! Banking on that IBR loan forgiveness? Yeah, that's not gonna happen; economic reality will have set in by then in DC. These students had better be prepared to pay all of that monstrosity back.

    Big Hoss
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2017
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  7. allantois

    allantois 2+ Year Member

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    They have no shame!

    They need to be investigated and audited by DoE, which gives them all these loans.
     
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  8. Cold Front

    Cold Front Supreme Member 10+ Year Member

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    Before undergrad (and residency) debt. Easily $1 mill plus after all the compounding interest.

    Imagine if you were going to dental school in 10-15 years from now. How much would that cost?
     
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  9. oralcare123

    oralcare123 7+ Year Member

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    There are plenty of people, who already have the money
     
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  10. Big Time Hoosier

    Big Time Hoosier Man. Myth. Legend. 2+ Year Member

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    And they may very well have a much better ROI spending that money elsewhere.

    Big Hoss
     
  11. oralcare123

    oralcare123 7+ Year Member

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    Cmon, where else you could cut and poke people, stick needles into them and still get payed
     
  12. Cold Front

    Cold Front Supreme Member 10+ Year Member

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    Personally, If I was facing that level of debt, I would still do dentistry. Because Dentistry at the cost can still be used as a stepping stone to other means; real estate investments, other small businesses (see dentaltown), etc.

    I can't really say the same about 90% of dentists would have the same vision.
     
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  13. Flemish

    Flemish

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    Even if someone has the means to finance that, why would they bother? The ROI just seems pitiful. Even for the unicorn ballers.
     
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  14. Flemish

    Flemish

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    True, but is there no limit to this rationale? Debt like this makes it difficult to secure the sort of capital necessary to transition into other investments. I just can't help but think there's plenty other fields with better ROI. Sure, some can make it work. But you can't make extreme examples compensate for the dearth of opportunity most will likely face.

    The general attitude on DT to the prospect of 3/4 million student debt is not optimistic.
     
  15. Flemish

    Flemish

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    Prison.
     
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  16. Cold Front

    Cold Front Supreme Member 10+ Year Member

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    True. High student debt would certainly hurt my debt to income ratio severely, but as I said, I would be more aggressive on the front end to keep my head above water and step off to a shallow end eventually. I think anything above $1M debt would kill any chances of becoming financially free for any new dentist, and unfortunately it's becoming more and more common dilemma for many new graduates every year.

    I wonder if specialization rate would dip and become less competitive in the future due to high debt from pre-doc programs.
     
  17. If people haven't figured out what a scam is yet.....then idk what else to tell them
     
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  18. oralcare123

    oralcare123 7+ Year Member

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    Would any of you prefer to spend 20 years saving for your education instead of borrowing?
     
  19. stevesteve123

    stevesteve123 5+ Year Member

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    honestly.... given the location and the perceived prestige of the dental profession, the school will ALWAYS have a supply of applicants with rich daddy to foot the cost

    seen people drop 100k+ in one night on dinner for a dozen people, whats a couple hundred g's among friends in New Port right?
     
  20. Legacy382

    Legacy382 2+ Year Member

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    Simple solution, don't go there.
     
  21. Fets

    Fets

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    One issue is the applicants who don't do their finance research, but still secure an acceptance. They help perpetuate the problem at every expensive school.
     
  22. Flemish

    Flemish

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    And that's JUST student debt. Never mind a mortgage or business loan. That would have you flirting with 1.5mil+. That's pure insanity.

    You would think! But then again, the justification people have for applying to these schools with outrageous prices is the prospect of a high income. Maybe the same argument for specialty will keep people going that way. I believe specialization rates are on the rise.
     
  23. DDS9994

    DDS9994

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    I cannot fathom this, this is beyond bad, My entire dental education was what it costs just one year at USC. With that burden understand you will have no room for error, if you do a start up, I dont know how that would work, you will need to by a big practice for this to work 800+. More and more they are making such you guys have no choice to be businessman first to cover your costs, add in fiancee, house, note easily 1.5 mill + in debt and counting. There is a guy on DT in the Seattle area who says he will make 70K this year, a new grad. Make sure you are flexible and can go anywhere if you carry this amount burden.
     
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  24. Fets

    Fets

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    I think one of the most important arguments in avoiding huge debts is the "room for error" argument. Many pre-dents seem confident that they'll be a great businessperson, and I'm sure many will be, but what about unforeseen circumstances? What if you become disabled? What if your practice fails? What if your house, practice, or family costs end up being more than you estimated?

    Obviously you can't live life assuming everything will go wrong, but it's a lot easier to get by when things go wrong with only 300k of debt compared to 500k of debt.
     
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  25. DDS9994

    DDS9994

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    Thank you, everyone wants to think as they see on some DT threads, they will open up and get 70NP a month and collect 100k+ a month within a 2 years of opening. Some will, but the reality is many wont. We all want to think we will be heavy hitters, but many of us will be average dentists doing simple bread and butter treatment, the difference between they guy doing this with a 150K note and the guy who had 500k+ is night and day. I just talked a prospective student who wants to go to Midwestern Il, I told her that debt is beast there I think they project coming out 400k+ but she said this is her dream, I do respect that, its just difficult to understand how much is owed and how crushing it is to a person who has no concept of it.
     
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  26. Flemish

    Flemish

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    Exactly. You can tell when you see threads on here where people are comparing a 180k state school debt vs 500-600k, as if the prestige alone of a private school/ivy can make up for the oceanic divide between those numbers. Numbers are just numbers until they become monthly payments. By then it's too late.
     
  27. redhotchiligochu

    redhotchiligochu VIP Member

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    Along with PBL. High tuition cannot be justified if there's no actual instructors along with a bad student faculty ratio. Plus, LA's known for high cost of living and saturation so good luck to the USC dental students seeking to make a living after graduation
     
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  28. Legacy382

    Legacy382 2+ Year Member

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    That is 100% their fault. People need to take responsibility for their actions. I would not want an associate who doesn't think things through before taking action. The real world isn't as forgiving as the academic.
     
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  29. Johan90

    Johan90

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    exactly
     
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  30. Fets

    Fets

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    I agree that it's their fault and that they should take responsibility. At the same time, I think it's important that threads like this exist and information about dental school debt is spread around.

    Massive debt is a problem for the whole field of dentistry, as I'd imagine it drives some practitioners to put quantity over quality with their treatment plans, and pushes dentists away from the private practice model.
     
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  31. Cold Front

    Cold Front Supreme Member 10+ Year Member

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    Starting a practice has not only become more expensive (labor cost, interest rates on loans, etc), but also inflation has creeped into all personal and business related cost. The only thing that hasn't risen (at least at the rate of inflation) is the insurance reimbursement fees, which controls a dentist's bottom line/income.

    Dentists have to work harder to sustain their bottom line, or risk financial set back.

    The ADA doesn't have the resources to paint this picture and get this creeping long term issue message out to dentists. Even if they did, it would undermine their mission to represent the interest of their members and wider profession. The exact same reason why AAO will not fight Invisalign and other new ortho systems that are hurting ortho specialty.

    Tuition increase is just 1 block of many issues that will financially make dentistry less desirable for future applicants. $600k tuition or debt alone is not as bad as when you include; $200k undergrad debt, $250k specialty debt, that $300-500k first home mortgage, that $250-400k decent practice, etc. Each of those big ticket items increase 1-2% a year in cost, so the difference in going to dental school today or next year is now more than $20-30k before interest when you look at the big picture. So how does a kid planning to apply to a dental school in 5 or 10 years stand a chance?

    Many dentists are already coaching their kids to consider another profession as a result.
     
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  32. swindoll

    swindoll 2+ Year Member

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    Who cares about debt when this country itself is in debt
     
  33. Master Yoda

    Master Yoda SDN Bronze Donor Bronze Donor 2+ Year Member

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    At some point the tuition will be so high that students will simply not apply.....
    I don't think anyone would want to do be a dentist if the cost of becoming one will be so high that it would almost be impossible to pay it off.
     
  34. allantois

    allantois 2+ Year Member

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    It seems that most students don't even know how much school costs until they are enrolled. And they have misconceived notions about how much dentists make. Overall, schools will not fail unless government cuts loan funding to schools.
     
  35. Cold Front

    Cold Front Supreme Member 10+ Year Member

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    To put this issue into another perspective... in 2012, the national student loans debt crossed $1 trillion. 5 years later, we are now approaching $1.5 trillion. 50% jump in just 5 years, and is projected to hit $2 trillion in 4 years (2021). The government is currently lending $100-120 billion a year, not including private loans.

    So this national student loans debt basically is moving from the equivalence of the 15th largest economy of the world to the 8th largest economy of the world within a decade (2012-2021).

    Let that sink in for a second.
     
  36. wengerout

    wengerout SDN Bronze Donor Bronze Donor

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    While you're not wrong, you can't ignore that the fact the government handing out student loans like candy doesn't also help the increase in cost. If next year the government decided they are capping the max amount of COA they will pay at 70k, all of a sudden you would see these schools "magically" cut cost to reach this maximum(Some of the newer private schools might fold though). The only reason they can charge these insane amounts is because they know you are just going to loan the money regardless, and they have an overwhelming supply of applicants to replace you if you decide you don't wanna take on the debt. It's going to take the government rethinking how they handle loans (Or the student loan bubble bursting) for this issue to be corrected.

    If you have an applicant who is on their third or fourth cycle and they get into USC or NYU, do you really think they are gonna turn down their only acceptance to go slave in a lab making 30k with their bio degree?
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2017
  37. Fets

    Fets

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    Sure, I'm fully aware of the problem with government involvement in student loans. It's probably the most important problem. My comment was just meant to highlight that some applicants don't think about finance before enrolling at expensive dental schools. I wouldn't knock an applicant enrolling at any expensive school, so long as they have a solid awareness of their financial situation, and the school is their best or only choice.
     
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  38. Kibe3143

    Kibe3143

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    I got into USC, yeah the price is stupid ridiculous...but you get what you pay for. LA baby. Plus it's normal to be in debt in this country. Might as well.
     
  39. Cold Front

    Cold Front Supreme Member 10+ Year Member

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    It's also going to be normal when the government takes grads who couldn't back their loans to court. That's only after they try to garnish your wages, your tax refunds and other government benefits diverted to your unpaid student-loan debts. Live the dream now and cry later.
     
  40. Kibe3143

    Kibe3143

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    Don't see that happening. Government won't take millions of people to court....sounds ludicrous. Plus I every other person has student loan debt and they are living life fine. Over exaggerating like a bih. Hahaha
     
  41. smurfeyD

    smurfeyD

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    I can't wait for your thread you start in 6 years about the horrors of dentistry and debt
     
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  42. Kibe3143

    Kibe3143

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    Not. Worried. About. Nothing.

    You must have full ride somewhere big shot, tell me how you did it since you have the keys.
     
  43. smurfeyD

    smurfeyD

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    Not worried about nothin, except for the times when you asked all about HPSP because you were worried about bein a million in debt. :bullcrap:
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017 at 1:38 PM
  44. Kibe3143

    Kibe3143

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    Because sdn forums are not for asking questions. My bad, I tripped. Who am I for asking questions that I want answers to?
     
  45. oralcare123

    oralcare123 7+ Year Member

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    To dictate everyone on what to do and what not to do is a prerogative of totalitarian regimes.
    So, enjoy what seems like a democracy and make your own decisions
     
  46. Cold Front

    Cold Front Supreme Member 10+ Year Member

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    Over exaggerating?

    Fact: Not all grads default.
    Fact: If you default, there are options and time to get things resolved, but that will cost you in a currency called "interest".
    Fact: If you have exhausted all options and still defaulting, you will be facing the depths of the student loans dungeon. Do you want to find out what's over there in the default dark room? The Government has a desk there, they won't be expecting all the other million students you mentioned with a huge debt coming in there with you. It's reserved for anyone who chose to be there, so keep it up with that false perception!
     
  47. Kibe3143

    Kibe3143

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    *yawns
     
  48. smurfeyD

    smurfeyD

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    *yawns
     
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  49. Kibe3143

    Kibe3143

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    You are a funny guy. Wrong thread buddy. *round of applause.
     
  50. Giovanotto

    Giovanotto 2+ Year Member

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    What does it say about the dental students that choose to attend despite the high COA?
     
  51. redhotchiligochu

    redhotchiligochu VIP Member

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    That they are financially illiterate
     
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