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Teddy Bear hospital is now run by Ochsner students?? That seems odd, as it was started by a former UQMS Pres more than a decade ago and has a local Trustees Board -- is it that most the volunteers are Ochsner students?A popular outreach club, is Teddy Bear hospital which is usually run by Ochsner students that has students going to local schools and teaching kids about health.
Teddy Bear hospital is now run by Ochsner students?? That seems odd, as it was started by a former UQMS Pres more than a decade ago and has a local Trustees Board -- is it that most the volunteers are Ochsner students?
From what I've seen, typically that the incoming class fills by September. If I am interviewing August should I be worried??? I thought I was safe but now I'm not so sure..
Hey fellow UQers,
Has anyone else read the limitations on what items can brought over to Australia during our studies without duties and taxes? Is there a limit and timeline as to what we can bring over for personal use as a student? I ask because it seems there's a hard limit of $1000 unless we can prove the item has been used/owned for a period of one year outside of Australia before arrival for Australians. There was an old thread (UQ-Ochsner Packing List for Brisbane) indicating that we must make the item seem like it's a personal item to avoid paying taxes/duties even for books.
Does anyone happen to know what prior students did when they brought personal items of substantial value like jewelery? I'm asking considering I was thinking of bringing some high-end watches and shoes which are relatively pricey in terms of MSRP. The 12% GST tax and additional duties would be crazy and I don't want to be essentially double taxed needlessly just for the privilege of using them in Australia...
You should be worried. But mededpath will usually have a good sense of when the class will fill so just ask them.
To current students-- Do you feel there is a stigma associated with going to an IMG when you are in your residency placement? do other students/doctors ask you why you chose to go to UQ-O? Does it even come up?
I have a random question about paying tuition.
It says that we pay in USD, but does that mean we can pay using our US banks? Or does it mean we set up a bank account in Australia, and they charge us tuition based on what the exchange rate is at that time?
I have a random question about paying tuition.
It says that we pay in USD, but does that mean we can pay using our US banks? Or does it mean we set up a bank account in Australia, and they charge us tuition based on what the exchange rate is at that time?
I just spoke with mededpath on the phone and they said they anticipate filling the class in September, meaning that all August interviewees *should* be considered and possibly September interviewees as well. The woman I spoke to seemed pretty confident that there was no need to worryLet me know if anyone finds out about this, I am also interviewing in August. However I noticed that spots for interviews in September and October opened just in the past 2 weeks, so they might not be anticipating a full class by august interviews..
Did you really bring 9 bags? That's a lot of luggage lolNo this won't be an issue. I brought in 9 checked bags and I wasn't questioned on a single thing.
Came with family.Did you really bring 9 bags? That's a lot of luggage lol
I'm wondering what students and others think: It seems like UQ-O students have matched into some extremely competitive programs and specialties, but I rarely see general surgery matches, any ideas for why this happens? This is one of my specialties of interest since I'm interested in colon/rectal surgery.
Thanks for the reply. That's really interesting, it seems like a general opinion that Ochsner will scoop up the left over applicants, so is the surgery program just not on board with the partnership with UQ? Are the clinical rotations thru 3rd and 4th year in the surgery department extra difficult because of prejudice against the UQ Ochsner students? And as a follow up, what did that 1 student do to stand out to the Ochsner PDs? And do you know of any other Ochsner residency programs that have similar views?Part of it may be that the Ochsner surgery program doesn't take UQ graduates. They've taken one, exactly one, from my year and none others as far as I know. The program director is very anti-FMG.
What that means for other general surgery programs I don't know. We've definitely had a few Gen-Surg matches but they are in further flung places.
Wow that's kind of discouraging to hear. I'm very interested in this program and have a particular interest in surgery. I have noticed that UQ-O hasn't matched many surgery applicants and that was a concern to me. I thought at the very least if you wanted to do surgery, you would have a strong shot at Ochsner if you do well on the rotation there. I guess that is not the case.Part of it may be that the Ochsner surgery program doesn't take UQ graduates. They've taken one, exactly one, from my year and none others as far as I know. The program director is very anti-FMG.
What that means for other general surgery programs I don't know. We've definitely had a few Gen-Surg matches but they are in further flung places.
It's not as if I am dead set on surgery as I have many interests. But it doesn't feel good to know that if you want to be a surgeon, then coming here would put you at a huge deficit
We've had plenty of gen surgery matches. Just maybe not at ochsner. Whether thats because people interviewed at, and preferred other places, or because Ochsner didn't take them, I'm not sure as I'm not at that phase yet to know those kinds of details. I encourage you to look at the latest match data from 2017 on the mededpath website and see what we have had. We had several gen surgery at other places, as well as a neurosurgery match, a vascular surgery match, and an orthopedic surgery match.
Just because there haven't been many gen surgery matches at Ochsner doesn't necessarily put you at a disadvantage. To my knowledge Ochsner does not have an EM residency program, which therefore requires a few additional hoops for EM hopefuls to jump through in getting the requisite electives done in that field, yet we've had plenty of emergency medicine matches despite this!
Getting someone to go to bat for you just like any other competitive match. Research is easy to come by if you pursue it and that helps. The staff really do put in legwork to call for you to get you the interviews.NOT many, less than 10 in total 2013 - 2017. We do not know if the Pre lim guys matched Gen Surgery. I am also interested in Gen Surgery.
This worries me slightly but I am hoping it ultimately depends on individuals effort.
Does anyone know what these few people did differently?
.It seem like some of them already had extensive research in their degrees prior to UQ-O.
Well the matches in Ortho , Plastics and Vascular Surgery are brilliant!!!. The Vascular Surgery match, seemed she worked with a seasoned mentor at Ochsner.
Who knows.
what made them stand out?
Any views from current and alumni?
I've also got my interview in August - it really looks like UQ-Ochsner is going to be my only choice for this cycle, so I'm worried as well.From what I've seen, typically that the incoming class fills by September. If I am interviewing August should I be worried??? I thought I was safe but now I'm not so sure..
I've also got my interview in August - it really looks like UQ-Ochsner is going to be my only choice for this cycle, so I'm worried as well.
To everyone who has received their CoE...
Now what? Ha. Apparently we cannot apply for a visa until October and class registration information is sent in November. I'd like to hear what others are doing (aside from their first-aid class).
Note: Should I apply for FASFA now or wait until I apply for a visa?
Thanks!
Well thank you for your honest and thorough post. Do you have any idea if tuition might actually go down In the years to come? I know many students chose UQ-O over DO schools (I think some even over US MD), do you guys feel as though you made the right decision, or regret doing so?Entering class, I strongly urge you to reconsider.
This isn't meant to scare you off UQ completely, but I know MededPath hides a lot of this information from prospective students and doesn't publish correct/current data. So, I'd like to shed a little light on the negatives so you can make an informed decision on what you're walking into.
Admin: It's no secrete they are completely incompetent. What surprised me was the new found threshold of incompetence. Things you never though possible to f*** up are happening, and it's not THEIR fault, it's yours. We didn't have any of our required classes scheduled because someone at a "top 50 worldwide research university," with thousands of computer sci students, decided the system was "too big to test." Just think about that for a minute.
And that excuse is thrown around EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.
Sorry guys, your cohort is too big to fit in one room, too big to schedule, too big to make sure you have the clinical hours you were promised first year, too big to allocate to local hospitals. (so take the bus 1.5 hrs each way).. NEVER do they acknowledge that they just don't care enough to make it work. Or, better yet, that if they can't handle the MASSIVE 550 student cohort, they should cut admissions until they can be competent.
This wouldn't be so bad if it didn't expand into academics. There is a huge disconnect between the lecturers, content presented, and what is on the exams. This semester was "Typical UQ." They asked histo questions on a clinical theory exam, and completely neglected any management questions. You know all those really good fundamental knowledge questions you almost enjoy answering??? yeah... those aren't there. But you better know the percent of indigenous New Zealanders and Alaskans that have depression (no, that wasn't covered in lecture).
They also have a propensity to give vague required coursework or even pass marks. This semester there are people who achieved the stated/published overall pass mark and were told they failed the image exam, and therefore the course. They started requiring a pass on image two years ago, but nowhere does it state the pass mark. Last year it was 50%... this year, it is not. Someone with a 75% overall (a B equivalent) now has a fail on their transcript because UQ makes **** up. Yes they are appealing, but it's highly unlikely to change. It's the student's fault for not seeing the unpublished pass mark, remember.
Hell, in writing this, I just found out UQ sent texts to PASSING students to remind them they had to sit the supplementary exam for the next morning. A text at 8pm for a 8am test the following day. What do you do? Is it a mistake? Did they change the pass mark? It shouldn’t be a mistake, right? This text has to be taken seriously. It’s too late to get a response from admin… Do you have to show up and take this exam you didn’t prepare for because UQ now thinks your grade depends on it? If you don’t show, and there was no mistake, that exam is only given once... you just failed by default. — Does this sound like stress you want to deal with while you’re well into a new semester?
Speaking of passing, Yes, Ochsner students fail and have to repeat the year. I can think of three off the top of my head in my year alone. I've yet to see any published documentation of it from MededPath, or of the people I know who dropped out.
Most people do well. Most people pass -- but some don't. They are happy to take another $100k for a re-do, though.
A break down of classes:
Anatomy: This is where UQ really shined. Even though you get next to zero meaningful cadaver exposure, Dr. Wragg made up for it with his notes, lectures, and enthusiasm to make the content approachable and memorable. Unfortunately, a bunch of new QLD/UQ regulations now prohibit you to have electronic notes, or to study outside of your scheduled tutorial time. This means only 3 hours of study time a week and a few sessions towards finals (for first years), and 9 hours total for second years. Hope you have a photographic memory. Oh, yeah, and Wragg quit middle of this year because he no longer thought the program was conducive to student learning**, and he was offered better money elsewhere. So... the best professor at UQ has just bailed.
** how could i possibly know this?? He told me, last year when we were talking about all the new changes. He hated them and said UQ was moving in the wrong direction. Would make learning anatomy "impossible." **
Physio: Tunny is the new best professor. This guy can explain calculus to a toddler.
Histo: This course is getting better. Online tutorials are useful, in person lectures are a complete waste of time. Complete. With the new pass requirement they give a decent amount of practice questions.
Path: tutorials are useful and very relevant, but some lecturers are worse than Histo.
Clinical Practice: this is very hit and miss. I've had tutors in the hospitals send their residents to teach, or point at a patient and walk away. The other half are painfully helpful and informative.
CBL: Some tutors speak English, others do not. If you have a hard time with very thick accents, you're going to find some tutors incomprehensible and the time spent in CBL useless. Some tutors don't speak at all, others want to lecture you for two hours. What I will say, is my current tutor is low-key appalled at how little we know about patient management. I have a disproportionate amount of "gunners" in my CBL and we get lectured every week on "you guys should really know this... this is bread and butter stuff... back of your hand... you need this to be a competent attendings…” Honestly, we'd know it if it was ever tested. For UQ, how to not kill people is "low-yield."
Lectures: A guest speaker said it best last semester, "if you guys haven't figured it out by now, a third of what lecturers tell you is incorrect, a third is opinion, and a third will be obsolete by the end of the year." For UQ, i'd say it's a bit higher. We've had lectures that gave us blatantly false information. Information you can google! Information that has been tested and retested... There's no real explanation except they do not control any of the information getting presented to us.
Positives: The correspondence curriculum UQ now implements, because it cannot handle 550 students attending lectures, means you can attend as little as 7 hours a week of required content, watch lectures from home, and do the tutorials in your free time while studying for the USMLE.
So... This is clearly half a novel, and it's clear that I'm some douche student with an axe to grind with UQ, but I'm really not. I'm bringing all these "little things" up because when you add them all up, it's like death by a thousand paper cuts. Yes, each one is completely manageable through time management and self-study. But, the amount of stress each little thing adds to what is already an incredibly stressful time isn’t really worth it. I see so many people posting about how "everyone has to teach themselves in the US too" and "no one is going to spoon feed you." That's BS. UQ has the worst student satisfaction rate of any medical school in Australia. That should tell you something. It's not a bunch of under-achieving students wanting safe-spaces. It's the top 5% of Australians and Canadians who are outraged by the education they are getting. You're not paying $100k/year for links to youtube videos and a subscription to Up-To-Date. There is an expectation that you're receiving some semblance of an education.
UQ is riding their “international reputation” to the very end. Internationals, particularly Americans as we pay $20k MORE than regular internationals, are funding UQ. That is not a secret. But this last week, UQ released their “strategic plan” for 2018-2021, which included this guy:
“[...] a significant (and increasing) proportion of UQ’s revenue stream is now sourced through international student fees. In 2015 the Vice Chancellor announced a strategy to increase international student numbers to bring the proportion of coursework student load that is international up to 30% by 2020.”
Yesterday, the Ochsner student body association (OMSA) sent out an email with a form letter for students that sums up what everyone thinks but no one says, the UQ-O program isn’t worth the tuition.
"As a (first/second/third/fourth) year medical student of the University of Queensland Faculty of Medicine’s Ochsner Program, I believe the issue of international student tuition and fees is one of which I am intimately aware. As the University intends on increasing international student enrollment, multiple issues need to be considered. Currently, international student tuition is prohibitively expensive and the program does not provide enough value to match its exorbitant cost. Students are burdened with excessive financial debt, limiting their options following obtaining their degree. If the current trend of yearly tuition raises continues, UQ is likely to price itself out of the market, diverting competitive applicants to other, more affordable, institutions. As a result, the caliber of student will decrease along with the program’s reputation. In the current financial environment, I can not endorse this program to any prospective student. In fact, as the situation currently stands, I would recommend against attending this program."
Would I do it again? Well... I would've made sure all my stateside options were exhausted. I’ve talked to multiple high achieving students who would like to drop out, but the debt burden is too high. As a complete last resort, it's likely better than SGU. Just come in managing your expectations. Once you're here, it's like the military. You have no rights. You have no voice. They tell you what to do, when to do it, and give you a couple hours of lead time. They take no responsibility for their litigious actions. I would not be surprised if the US federal government pulled accreditation for the program in the coming years. They're riding on their "global reputation," but it's going to blow up soon if they keep heading in this direction.
As an aside. You will get hardcore UQ alum preaching how great it is. You have to remember, they were in a different program. They had full biochem/science courses, not just a cursory lecture. You're better off listening to people IN the program than 3-8 years out.
Well thank you for your honest and thorough post. Do you have any idea if tuition might actually go down In the years to come? I know many students chose UQ-O over DO schools (I think some even over US MD), do you guys feel as though you made the right decision, or regret doing so?
Thanks for the reply. That's really interesting, it seems like a general opinion that Ochsner will scoop up the left over applicants, so is the surgery program just not on board with the partnership with UQ? Are the clinical rotations thru 3rd and 4th year in the surgery department extra difficult because of prejudice against the UQ Ochsner students? And as a follow up, what did that 1 student do to stand out to the Ochsner PDs? And do you know of any other Ochsner residency programs that have similar views?
Thanks for sharing this info, it's great to hear the various programs that are positive about UQ-O students. So I'm guessing the surgery PD isn't writing the UQ-O students interested in surgery the glowing LOR's needed for their residency applications? Does that mean "away rotations" are needed for surgery?No more difficult than any other surgery rotation. It's simply a bias on the part of the program director of the surgery program. As far as I know this is an attitude confined to surgery. Internal Medicine, Neurology, Radiology, Anesthesiology and Ophthalmology all have a history of taking our people.
My interview is in September. Do you think the class will be filled by then?
Entering class, I strongly urge you to reconsider.
This isn't meant to scare you off UQ completely, but I know MededPath hides a lot of this information from prospective students and doesn't publish correct/current data. So, I'd like to shed a little light on the negatives so you can make an informed decision on what you're walking into.
Admin: It's no secrete they are completely incompetent. What surprised me was the new found threshold of incompetence. Things you never though possible to f*** up are happening, and it's not THEIR fault, it's yours. We didn't have any of our required classes scheduled because someone at a "top 50 worldwide research university," with thousands of computer sci students, decided the system was "too big to test." Just think about that for a minute.
And that excuse is thrown around EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.
Sorry guys, your cohort is too big to fit in one room, too big to schedule, too big to make sure you have the clinical hours you were promised first year, too big to allocate to local hospitals. (so take the bus 1.5 hrs each way).. NEVER do they acknowledge that they just don't care enough to make it work. Or, better yet, that if they can't handle the MASSIVE 550 student cohort, they should cut admissions until they can be competent.
This wouldn't be so bad if it didn't expand into academics. There is a huge disconnect between the lecturers, content presented, and what is on the exams. This semester was "Typical UQ." They asked histo questions on a clinical theory exam, and completely neglected any management questions. You know all those really good fundamental knowledge questions you almost enjoy answering??? yeah... those aren't there. But you better know the percent of indigenous New Zealanders and Alaskans that have depression (no, that wasn't covered in lecture).
They also have a propensity to give vague required coursework or even pass marks. This semester there are people who achieved the stated/published overall pass mark and were told they failed the image exam, and therefore the course. They started requiring a pass on image two years ago, but nowhere does it state the pass mark. Last year it was 50%... this year, it is not. Someone with a 75% overall (a B equivalent) now has a fail on their transcript because UQ makes **** up. Yes they are appealing, but it's highly unlikely to change. It's the student's fault for not seeing the unpublished pass mark, remember.
Hell, in writing this, I just found out UQ sent texts to PASSING students to remind them they had to sit the supplementary exam for the next morning. A text at 8pm for a 8am test the following day. What do you do? Is it a mistake? Did they change the pass mark? It shouldn’t be a mistake, right? This text has to be taken seriously. It’s too late to get a response from admin… Do you have to show up and take this exam you didn’t prepare for because UQ now thinks your grade depends on it? If you don’t show, and there was no mistake, that exam is only given once... you just failed by default. — Does this sound like stress you want to deal with while you’re well into a new semester?
Speaking of passing, Yes, Ochsner students fail and have to repeat the year. I can think of three off the top of my head in my year alone. I've yet to see any published documentation of it from MededPath, or of the people I know who dropped out.
Most people do well. Most people pass -- but some don't. They are happy to take another $100k for a re-do, though.
A break down of classes:
Anatomy: This is where UQ really shined. Even though you get next to zero meaningful cadaver exposure, Dr. Wragg made up for it with his notes, lectures, and enthusiasm to make the content approachable and memorable. Unfortunately, a bunch of new QLD/UQ regulations now prohibit you to have electronic notes, or to study outside of your scheduled tutorial time. This means only 3 hours of study time a week and a few sessions towards finals (for first years), and 9 hours total for second years. Hope you have a photographic memory. Oh, yeah, and Wragg quit middle of this year because he no longer thought the program was conducive to student learning**, and he was offered better money elsewhere. So... the best professor at UQ has just bailed.
** how could i possibly know this?? He told me, last year when we were talking about all the new changes. He hated them and said UQ was moving in the wrong direction. Would make learning anatomy "impossible." **
Physio: Tunny is the new best professor. This guy can explain calculus to a toddler.
Histo: This course is getting better. Online tutorials are useful, in person lectures are a complete waste of time. Complete. With the new pass requirement they give a decent amount of practice questions.
Path: tutorials are useful and very relevant, but some lecturers are worse than Histo.
Clinical Practice: this is very hit and miss. I've had tutors in the hospitals send their residents to teach, or point at a patient and walk away. The other half are painfully helpful and informative.
CBL: Some tutors speak English, others do not. If you have a hard time with very thick accents, you're going to find some tutors incomprehensible and the time spent in CBL useless. Some tutors don't speak at all, others want to lecture you for two hours. What I will say, is my current tutor is low-key appalled at how little we know about patient management. I have a disproportionate amount of "gunners" in my CBL and we get lectured every week on "you guys should really know this... this is bread and butter stuff... back of your hand... you need this to be a competent attendings…” Honestly, we'd know it if it was ever tested. For UQ, how to not kill people is "low-yield."
Lectures: A guest speaker said it best last semester, "if you guys haven't figured it out by now, a third of what lecturers tell you is incorrect, a third is opinion, and a third will be obsolete by the end of the year." For UQ, i'd say it's a bit higher. We've had lectures that gave us blatantly false information. Information you can google! Information that has been tested and retested... There's no real explanation except they do not control any of the information getting presented to us.
Positives: The correspondence curriculum UQ now implements, because it cannot handle 550 students attending lectures, means you can attend as little as 7 hours a week of required content, watch lectures from home, and do the tutorials in your free time while studying for the USMLE.
So... This is clearly half a novel, and it's clear that I'm some douche student with an axe to grind with UQ, but I'm really not. I'm bringing all these "little things" up because when you add them all up, it's like death by a thousand paper cuts. Yes, each one is completely manageable through time management and self-study. But, the amount of stress each little thing adds to what is already an incredibly stressful time isn’t really worth it. I see so many people posting about how "everyone has to teach themselves in the US too" and "no one is going to spoon feed you." That's BS. UQ has the worst student satisfaction rate of any medical school in Australia. That should tell you something. It's not a bunch of under-achieving students wanting safe-spaces. It's the top 5% of Australians and Canadians who are outraged by the education they are getting. You're not paying $100k/year for links to youtube videos and a subscription to Up-To-Date. There is an expectation that you're receiving some semblance of an education.
UQ is riding their “international reputation” to the very end. Internationals, particularly Americans as we pay $20k MORE than regular internationals, are funding UQ. That is not a secret. But this last week, UQ released their “strategic plan” for 2018-2021, which included this guy:
“[...] a significant (and increasing) proportion of UQ’s revenue stream is now sourced through international student fees. In 2015 the Vice Chancellor announced a strategy to increase international student numbers to bring the proportion of coursework student load that is international up to 30% by 2020.”
Yesterday, the Ochsner student body association (OMSA) sent out an email with a form letter for students that sums up what everyone thinks but no one says, the UQ-O program isn’t worth the tuition.
"As a (first/second/third/fourth) year medical student of the University of Queensland Faculty of Medicine’s Ochsner Program, I believe the issue of international student tuition and fees is one of which I am intimately aware. As the University intends on increasing international student enrollment, multiple issues need to be considered. Currently, international student tuition is prohibitively expensive and the program does not provide enough value to match its exorbitant cost. Students are burdened with excessive financial debt, limiting their options following obtaining their degree. If the current trend of yearly tuition raises continues, UQ is likely to price itself out of the market, diverting competitive applicants to other, more affordable, institutions. As a result, the caliber of student will decrease along with the program’s reputation. In the current financial environment, I can not endorse this program to any prospective student. In fact, as the situation currently stands, I would recommend against attending this program."
Would I do it again? Well... I would've made sure all my stateside options were exhausted. I’ve talked to multiple high achieving students who would like to drop out, but the debt burden is too high. As a complete last resort, it's likely better than SGU. Just come in managing your expectations. Once you're here, it's like the military. You have no rights. You have no voice. They tell you what to do, when to do it, and give you a couple hours of lead time. They take no responsibility for their litigious actions. I would not be surprised if the US federal government pulled accreditation for the program in the coming years. They're riding on their "global reputation," but it's going to blow up soon if they keep heading in this direction.
As an aside. You will get hardcore UQ alum preaching how great it is. You have to remember, they were in a different program. They had full biochem/science courses, not just a cursory lecture. You're better off listening to people IN the program than 3-8 years out.
Entering class, I strongly urge you to reconsider.
This isn't meant to scare you off UQ completely, but I know MededPath hides a lot of this information from prospective students and doesn't publish correct/current data. So, I'd like to shed a little light on the negatives so you can make an informed decision on what you're walking into.
Admin: It's no secrete they are completely incompetent. What surprised me was the new found threshold of incompetence. Things you never though possible to f*** up are happening, and it's not THEIR fault, it's yours. We didn't have any of our required classes scheduled because someone at a "top 50 worldwide research university," with thousands of computer sci students, decided the system was "too big to test." Just think about that for a minute.
And that excuse is thrown around EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.
Sorry guys, your cohort is too big to fit in one room, too big to schedule, too big to make sure you have the clinical hours you were promised first year, too big to allocate to local hospitals. (so take the bus 1.5 hrs each way).. NEVER do they acknowledge that they just don't care enough to make it work. Or, better yet, that if they can't handle the MASSIVE 550 student cohort, they should cut admissions until they can be competent.
This wouldn't be so bad if it didn't expand into academics. There is a huge disconnect between the lecturers, content presented, and what is on the exams. This semester was "Typical UQ." They asked histo questions on a clinical theory exam, and completely neglected any management questions. You know all those really good fundamental knowledge questions you almost enjoy answering??? yeah... those aren't there. But you better know the percent of indigenous New Zealanders and Alaskans that have depression (no, that wasn't covered in lecture).
They also have a propensity to give vague required coursework or even pass marks. This semester there are people who achieved the stated/published overall pass mark and were told they failed the image exam, and therefore the course. They started requiring a pass on image two years ago, but nowhere does it state the pass mark. Last year it was 50%... this year, it is not. Someone with a 75% overall (a B equivalent) now has a fail on their transcript because UQ makes **** up. Yes they are appealing, but it's highly unlikely to change. It's the student's fault for not seeing the unpublished pass mark, remember.
Hell, in writing this, I just found out UQ sent texts to PASSING students to remind them they had to sit the supplementary exam for the next morning. A text at 8pm for a 8am test the following day. What do you do? Is it a mistake? Did they change the pass mark? It shouldn’t be a mistake, right? This text has to be taken seriously. It’s too late to get a response from admin… Do you have to show up and take this exam you didn’t prepare for because UQ now thinks your grade depends on it? If you don’t show, and there was no mistake, that exam is only given once... you just failed by default. — Does this sound like stress you want to deal with while you’re well into a new semester?
Speaking of passing, Yes, Ochsner students fail and have to repeat the year. I can think of three off the top of my head in my year alone. I've yet to see any published documentation of it from MededPath, or of the people I know who dropped out.
Most people do well. Most people pass -- but some don't. They are happy to take another $100k for a re-do, though.
A break down of classes:
Anatomy: This is where UQ really shined. Even though you get next to zero meaningful cadaver exposure, Dr. Wragg made up for it with his notes, lectures, and enthusiasm to make the content approachable and memorable. Unfortunately, a bunch of new QLD/UQ regulations now prohibit you to have electronic notes, or to study outside of your scheduled tutorial time. This means only 3 hours of study time a week and a few sessions towards finals (for first years), and 9 hours total for second years. Hope you have a photographic memory. Oh, yeah, and Wragg quit middle of this year because he no longer thought the program was conducive to student learning**, and he was offered better money elsewhere. So... the best professor at UQ has just bailed.
** how could i possibly know this?? He told me, last year when we were talking about all the new changes. He hated them and said UQ was moving in the wrong direction. Would make learning anatomy "impossible." **
Physio: Tunny is the new best professor. This guy can explain calculus to a toddler.
Histo: This course is getting better. Online tutorials are useful, in person lectures are a complete waste of time. Complete. With the new pass requirement they give a decent amount of practice questions.
Path: tutorials are useful and very relevant, but some lecturers are worse than Histo.
Clinical Practice: this is very hit and miss. I've had tutors in the hospitals send their residents to teach, or point at a patient and walk away. The other half are painfully helpful and informative.
CBL: Some tutors speak English, others do not. If you have a hard time with very thick accents, you're going to find some tutors incomprehensible and the time spent in CBL useless. Some tutors don't speak at all, others want to lecture you for two hours. What I will say, is my current tutor is low-key appalled at how little we know about patient management. I have a disproportionate amount of "gunners" in my CBL and we get lectured every week on "you guys should really know this... this is bread and butter stuff... back of your hand... you need this to be a competent attendings…” Honestly, we'd know it if it was ever tested. For UQ, how to not kill people is "low-yield."
Lectures: A guest speaker said it best last semester, "if you guys haven't figured it out by now, a third of what lecturers tell you is incorrect, a third is opinion, and a third will be obsolete by the end of the year." For UQ, i'd say it's a bit higher. We've had lectures that gave us blatantly false information. Information you can google! Information that has been tested and retested... There's no real explanation except they do not control any of the information getting presented to us.
Positives: The correspondence curriculum UQ now implements, because it cannot handle 550 students attending lectures, means you can attend as little as 7 hours a week of required content, watch lectures from home, and do the tutorials in your free time while studying for the USMLE.
So... This is clearly half a novel, and it's clear that I'm some douche student with an axe to grind with UQ, but I'm really not. I'm bringing all these "little things" up because when you add them all up, it's like death by a thousand paper cuts. Yes, each one is completely manageable through time management and self-study. But, the amount of stress each little thing adds to what is already an incredibly stressful time isn’t really worth it. I see so many people posting about how "everyone has to teach themselves in the US too" and "no one is going to spoon feed you." That's BS. UQ has the worst student satisfaction rate of any medical school in Australia. That should tell you something. It's not a bunch of under-achieving students wanting safe-spaces. It's the top 5% of Australians and Canadians who are outraged by the education they are getting. You're not paying $100k/year for links to youtube videos and a subscription to Up-To-Date. There is an expectation that you're receiving some semblance of an education.
UQ is riding their “international reputation” to the very end. Internationals, particularly Americans as we pay $20k MORE than regular internationals, are funding UQ. That is not a secret. But this last week, UQ released their “strategic plan” for 2018-2021, which included this guy:
“[...] a significant (and increasing) proportion of UQ’s revenue stream is now sourced through international student fees. In 2015 the Vice Chancellor announced a strategy to increase international student numbers to bring the proportion of coursework student load that is international up to 30% by 2020.”
Yesterday, the Ochsner student body association (OMSA) sent out an email with a form letter for students that sums up what everyone thinks but no one says, the UQ-O program isn’t worth the tuition.
"As a (first/second/third/fourth) year medical student of the University of Queensland Faculty of Medicine’s Ochsner Program, I believe the issue of international student tuition and fees is one of which I am intimately aware. As the University intends on increasing international student enrollment, multiple issues need to be considered. Currently, international student tuition is prohibitively expensive and the program does not provide enough value to match its exorbitant cost. Students are burdened with excessive financial debt, limiting their options following obtaining their degree. If the current trend of yearly tuition raises continues, UQ is likely to price itself out of the market, diverting competitive applicants to other, more affordable, institutions. As a result, the caliber of student will decrease along with the program’s reputation. In the current financial environment, I can not endorse this program to any prospective student. In fact, as the situation currently stands, I would recommend against attending this program."
Would I do it again? Well... I would've made sure all my stateside options were exhausted. I’ve talked to multiple high achieving students who would like to drop out, but the debt burden is too high. As a complete last resort, it's likely better than SGU. Just come in managing your expectations. Once you're here, it's like the military. You have no rights. You have no voice. They tell you what to do, when to do it, and give you a couple hours of lead time. They take no responsibility for their litigious actions. I would not be surprised if the US federal government pulled accreditation for the program in the coming years. They're riding on their "global reputation," but it's going to blow up soon if they keep heading in this direction.
As an aside. You will get hardcore UQ alum preaching how great it is. You have to remember, they were in a different program. They had full biochem/science courses, not just a cursory lecture. You're better off listening to people IN the program than 3-8 years out.
Thank you for taking the time to write this contrasting summary of your experiences at UQ-O. I'm applying there and am excited for the opportunity. In the end, did you feel like you had a fair chance at succeeding and passing the classes? Did you ever think that UQ was making any low blows or trying to sabotage your chance at passing in any way? Or, since this "velvet underground" user only has this one post, do you think they might just be a late applicant hoping to deter other late applicants with a scare tactic in hopes there will still be a spot?I wanted to just respond to this since this feels not at all like the experience I had. I will grant you that the admin people are completely inept, but the other portions don't match anything that happened with my cohort, or the cohorts before me.
Anatomy - it is a shame that Wragg is gone. I was fortunate that I was there while he was still lecturing and his notes are outstanding. I have ended up sharing his anatomy notes with students at other programs because they are so on point. As far as limiting study time/electronic notes, from what was said by others, it isn't even related to UQ it's a QLD thing, and it seems like a strange thing to complain about. You can easily pass anatomy if you read his notes and use any resources online to help consolidate the information.
Physiology/Histology/Pathology - you're goal is to do well on step 1 as a UQ-O student and obviously passing courses. Getting anything more than 5's is just icing on the cake. The majority of study time should be dedicated to prepping for step 1, and then reviewing any of the Australia specific things that may come up periodically. Additionally, judging the content/quality of the lectures is ridiculous. You put 10 students in a room, all 10 will tell you that they learn best in 10 different ways. I am surprised people actually go to lecture considering they are all recorded. I found it a far better use of my time to just read/review the content for the week using my own resources, and reviewing the slides during revision week and just looked for the ridiculous 'UQ dumb stats questions' that would show up on the slides.
Clinical Practice - I hate to break it to you, but the majority of teaching is done by residents/interns at every major institution when you hit MS3/4 in the wards. Formal lectures are typically given by staff, but anything on the floor is going to be discussed informally by the team you are with. You will typically be asked to review/cover a topic and then talk about it for 5-10min to teach other students and residents/interns. Periodically on rounds you may get some didactic teaching by staff but it usually is relatively quick.
CBL - This was basically the required portion of UQ years 1/2. It was 2 hours 2x/week and although some of the cases were hilariously written it was at least fun to do. I never met a CBL tutor that didn't speak fluent english (no idea where that is coming from). 3 of my CBL tutors were staff level - 1 was a retired hematologist, and 2 were GPs. The last was in GP training.
Lectures - Yeah lectures are terrible. Welcome to teaching a class of students by slideshow. It doesn't work for everyone. Build a bridge and get over it. Sorry, but the goal of medicine isn't for everyone to teach you everything you need to know, it's to guide you to teach yourself. This is not unique to UQ.
Finally - that letter - I never got it, it must have been directed to MS1/2? I agree tuition is expensive, and many of us joked that our tuition probably single handedly paid for that bridge to UQ Lakes and the new sports fields over there. And lastly - did you serve in the military? I did - it is NOTHING like that.
I feel like UQ put some unnecessary stress on us, but then again I never really felt like I was gonna fail after I had a semester under my belt understanding how it all worked.Thank you for taking the time to write this contrasting summary of your experiences at UQ-O. I'm applying there and am excited for the opportunity. In the end, did you feel like you had a fair chance at succeeding and passing the classes? Did you ever think that UQ was making any low blows or trying to sabotage your chance at passing in any way? Or, since this "velvet underground" user only has this one post, do you think they might just be a late applicant hoping to deter other late applicants with a scare tactic in hopes there will still be a spot?
Thanks for the clarification, I'm currently at a university with an administration who has no clue what they're doing, so I'm sure it couldn't be much worse at UQ, and although frustrating, it's still doable. But it sounds like after your first semester you had their idiosyncrasies figured out?I feel like UQ put some unnecessary stress on us, but then again I never really felt like I was gonna fail after I had a semester under my belt understanding how it all worked.
Thanks for sharing this info, it's great to hear the various programs that are positive about UQ-O students. So I'm guessing the surgery PD isn't writing the UQ-O students interested in surgery the glowing LOR's needed for their residency applications? Does that mean "away rotations" are needed for surgery?
Thanks for the insight. My question is this:
From what it sounds like, many of the issues facing UQ-OCS students are institutional (scheduling, incompetence, etc.). Apart from financing the program, which is largely beyond a student's control anyways, are these lapses in the UQ-OCS program surmountable through reasonable individual effort alone? I obviously don't want to hamstring myself by going to a program which will not prepare me to secure a decent residency.
That being said, it might be a moot point since I likely won't have a choice
I don't think so. I don't think that he's slammed anyone undeservingly because I know he has written letters for people that did get in to other surgery programs. Just not into his program. Aways are tough to arrange and not a lot of people do them so that's not really an option I would count on.
A lot of the issues are the same that we dealt with. UQ didn't know what step 1 and we had only student-organized tutorials and no qbanks or first aid to until a month or so in, for example. Incompetent administration is something that has been there for a while, and MedEdPath had a lot of the same issues you are describing.
I believe that the match results and match rate speak for themselves in terms of surmountable problems. You can do well if you choose to do well. You need to have the self-discipline to spend those two years gearing up for USMLE and a lot of that will be self or peer tutoring. That's what your time in Australia really is. The curriculum isnt't hard if you have a science background. If you don't you'll be playing a little bit of catch up but it is in no way insurmountable as many people who are in or have gone through the program can attest.
You can, and should absolutely be able to, fail. The people that fail from what I've seen do so for a variety of reasons. There are ones that are in medicine for the wrong reasons and should never have started in the first place. There are guys that just don't have the work ethic or self motivation to put the work in for step 1 or even for UQ classes. There are people that just can't deal with being so far away from home. My roommate the first year was the perfect storm of all of the above, he wasn't really motivated for medicine, he had never been away from his family in his life and couldn't handle being away. He got severely depressed and spent most of the year nearly constantly stoned or drunk. He recycled the first year and burned out after that. He's alive, as far as anyone can tell, but he has a house's worth of non-dischargeable student debt and nothing to show for it.
If you put the work into USMLE and read up on the Australia specific stuff you'll be fine. You're not there to bang out 7s on everything - just get through and focus on step 1. The UQ curriculum is what it is - the complaints that are voiced are in no way new.
I want to be clear that I would never recommend this program over a US medical school. Two years is a long time to be far away from home ;you will miss out on important things - weddings, funerals, births and the like. You may not see any of your family for two years. If you are in a relationship and make the move that may well fall apart because of the stress. You will come out as an IMG and you will be at a not-insurmountable disadvantage compared to your US trained peers.
This program is for people that are serious about doing medicine but for whatever reasons couldn't pursue that interest in the United States. That's the category I was in; I paid the price and got the better part of 600k in debt. But I'm a doctor, I'm going to go into fellowship so it worked out for me.
I like the program, I'm glad I did it but for anyone who is interested I say you absolutely must put some thought into doing it - the last thing you want to do is to repeat a year, burn out anyway and have mid to high six figures of student debt with nothing to show for it. UQ-Ochsner will likely be the single biggest investment you make in your life in terms of time, blood and treasure. Do not sign on without giving it some serious consideration.
got the better part of 600k in debt - This is scary! I thought the loan for UQ-O is typically in the 300 - 350K range?
got the better part of 600k in debt - This is scary! I thought the loan for UQ-O is typically in the 300 - 350K range?
That includes the interest that has been compounding since 2010 and about 50-60k in post bacc loans. I refinanced and consolidated my loans after graduation so I don't have the exact numbers I borrowed handy. But let's just take a total package cost of 392, with the 60k in old loans we're at 452k. For unsubsidized federal loans, which will likely represent the lion's share of your loans and it certainly is of mine., you start compounding the interest the second you sign on the line. That interest capitalizes when you finish and then the whole packages starts accruing interest at the like 7% rate or whatever it is.
With the repayment plan I'm on I'm not even paying a fraction of the monthly interest now on my payments. So by now the interest that's accumulated to date is 57k, so the total amount of loans would be about 509k-ish.
I also mis-stated the amount that I owe. I never actually look at the balance and just make the payments they ask for since I'm not even making a dent in the monthly interest. I checked it again and I'm now at about 530k including interest. I'll update the post.
I'm not sure how loans are working now but I paid with a mix of stafford loans, which were subsidized so they weren't accruing interest yet and unsubsidized gradplus loans which are not subsidized and accruing interest. The stafford loans represented about...25% of what I borrowed since there are hard limits on the loan amount so the lion's share was accruing interest the whole time.wow I didnt know the majority of loans start compounding interest from day one.. is that for IMG student loans or would this be the same if I went to a US medical school? Thanks for your input!
My undergrad federal loans have been compounding interest since the minute I began accepting them, you'll see the interest amount info in the letters from navient. The payments may be deferred but the interest still compounds. So I'm sure it's the same with med school loanswow I didnt know the majority of loans start compounding interest from day one.. is that for IMG student loans or would this be the same if I went to a US medical school? Thanks for your input!
I talked to a rep today in preparation for my upcoming interview, and she stated that for at least the August interviewees, the class should remain unfilled. The person I talked to stated that due to the later MCAT dates, they don't foresee filling the class until September, but that after September, accepted interviewees will go straight onto the waitlist. Just wanted to pass a confirmation for people who were curious.
Hi Gettingthere12,Hi guys, I just got my acceptance letter to the UQ MD programme yesterday. Apparently, someone withdrew from the enrolment process and I was next on the waitlist. Are you guys from the US? Although I am not from the Ochsner Programme, it would still be good to make some friends before Feb 18. lol