Update on Trinity School of Medicine

[Stagg737]

I did say the match application, not ones who actually matched somewhere.

Sorry, I misread your post. Though I do think that matriculation to match rate is relevant, as having 87% get to the match application is meaningless if 50% don't match...

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[redsox93]

@TrinityMDMPH can you link/post your schools match list please?

http://blog.trinityschoolofmedicine...ncy-placements-in-the-u.s.-and-canada-in-2016

Honestly not terrible. Obviously nothing to go crazy about but for a carib school it's not bad.

 

[libertyyne]

Sorry, I misread your post. Though I do think that matriculation to match rate is relevant, as having 87% get to the match application is meaningless if 50% don't match...

That is true. But even 87% getting to match day is impressive considering some of the carribean schools do aggressive weeding out prior to that, leaving 50% of the matriculants that end up graduating applying to match and then 50% of those actually matching.

So 100->50-> 25 vs
100->87->44.

 

[BadNewsBears2016]

Listen guys, I get the snarkiness going on, but this person is just trying to do his/her job. How about we not be jerks about it?

 

[Goro]

You all are also assuming that they're being 100% truthful, which they have no obligation to be.

That is true. But even 87% getting to match day is impressive considering some of the carribean schools do aggressive weeding out prior to that, leaving 50% of the matriculants that end up graduating applying to match and then 50% of those actually matching.

So 100->50-> 25 vs
100->87->44.

 

[TrinityMDMPH]

I'm certain that @DocFarnsworth and I have hit that unsub button several times. SGU does the same thing...

With SGU, I had to resort to sending them a screenshot of my acceptance letter to get them to stop.

Please PM me your email address and I will ensure that you are removed from our email listserv. Again my apologies.

 

[freak7]

I second this:
from all those who start on day of orientation for matriculation, how many finish and earn their degrees?
what are those full attrition rates from M1, M2 and M3/4?
Do you track by graduation in 4 years, 5 years, and beyond?
what is the actual match rate of graduates and the total residency placement rate (including SOAP, and off cycle contracts)?
What are your full stats in Match?
-active applicants
---matched
---unmatched
---withdrew
---unranked
what is the total who first applied?

Uh oh, daddy's home.

 

[Hospitalized]

Dang, y'all are brutal.

 

[Stagg737]

That is true. But even 87% getting to match day is impressive considering some of the carribean schools do aggressive weeding out prior to that, leaving 50% of the matriculants that end up graduating applying to match and then 50% of those actually matching.

So 100->50-> 25 vs
100->87->44.

That's fine, but even 74% placing from those who matriculate is unacceptable imo. Average attrition rates at U.S. med schools are around 5% (this includes people who choose to leave). I don't know the exact number, but average match rate is somewhere between 90-95%, and it would be higher if people didn't apply stupidly. So on average over 90% of students that enter a U.S. med school will match somewhere, not just place (aka match + scramble).

I will give Trinity credit for coming on here and being transparent as well as trying to answer people's questions/requests.

 

[WedgeDawg]

@TrinityMDMPH

I just wanted to give you a heads up that, speaking from personal experience, SDN, particularly this section of SDN (pre-allo), tends to lean pretty heavily in the anti-Caribbean direction. You seem to be wanting to reach out to people who are thinking of taking advantage of your program, but I think you will be unlikely to find that demographic here.

We do have Caribbean section of this site that I would be happy to move this thread to if you want (don't post another thread, just let me know). It's got much lower traffic, but generally users there are more receptive to Caribbean schools as an alternative to USMD/DO. Nothing personal, but you should know that you're likely not reaching your target audience, and the likelihood of people asking questions just to mess with you is quite high.

The alternative is posting on ValueMD which is essentially a Caribbean MD forum.

 

[NotYou20]

We are truly invested in our student population

Pet peeve time. I really hate this use of truly. It's like people hear their high school teacher saying don't say really so they just use truly instead

 

[pseud0]

"We are truly invested in taking a half million dollars from each of our students without guaranteeing them a career"

 

[WedgeDawg]

Moving to Caribbean upon request

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I am confused.

Per the opening post, Trinity has 20-30 students in one term, and 60-70 in a second. So that's 80 - 100 students per year. Let's use the lowest number - 80 students per year.

Attrition is 13-15%. Using the highest value of 15%, that leaves 85%, that's 0.85 x 80 = 68 students making it to graduation.

Match rate is 85%. So, that's 0.85 x 68 = 58 matches (I rounded up).

Yet, the blog post above has a list of 24 matches in the US, and 2 in Canada = 26.

Something is missing / wrong. @TrinityMDMPH, can you clarify? It's great to have a school be transparent, usually we're just guessing here.

 

[Goro]

Math skills seem to be different in the Caribbean, colleague.

I am confused.

Per the opening post, Trinity has 20-30 students in one term, and 60-70 in a second. So that's 80 - 100 students per year. Let's use the lowest number - 80 students per year.

Attrition is 13-15%. Using the highest value of 15%, that leaves 85%, that's 0.85 x 80 = 68 students making it to graduation.

Match rate is 85%. So, that's 0.85 x 68 = 58 matches (I rounded up).

Yet, the blog post above has a list of 24 matches in the US, and 2 in Canada = 26.

Something is missing / wrong. @TrinityMDMPH, can you clarify? It's great to have a school be transparent, usually we're just guessing here.

 

[Dr. Booty]

Math skills seem to be different in the Caribbean, colleague.

School is relatively new. Assume the first couple of years didn't have class sizes of anywhere near 80.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

School is relatively new. Assume the first couple of years didn't have class sizes of anywhere near 80.

That's certainly a possible explanation. On their website they mention IMED listing as of Sept 2008. Not sure when they admitted their first class -- if 2008, then the first grads would be 2012. More likely, 2013.

That does raise new issues, though. Can they scale up and maintain the same quality? Are there enough rotations for all of their students? Will their attrition rate / match rate stay the same with larger classes? All of this may work out -- I'm not implying that it won't. But if we're being transparent about it, let's make sure we're all on the same page.

 

[deleted731525]

http://blog.trinityschoolofmedicine...ncy-placements-in-the-u.s.-and-canada-in-2016

Honestly not terrible. Obviously nothing to go crazy about but for a carib school it's not bad.

According to that link their students who scored between 29-31 on the MCAT only averaged 221 on Step 1. Wouldnt you expect that to be higher if the preclinical education was of comparable quality to US schools?

 

[TrinityMDMPH]

Are there enough rotations for all of their students?

100% of our core clinical rotations take place in Baltimore, Maryland. Moreover, we have slots available for every student that is admitted.

Additional information regarding core clinical rotations in Baltimore and 4th year electives can be found on the following page of our website:

http://www.trinityschoolofmedicine.org/academics/clinical-sciences

Please feel free to contact me directly if you have any questions.

Happy Holidays.

 

[gonnif]

That's certainly a possible explanation. On their website they mention IMED listing as of Sept 2008. Not sure when they admitted their first class -- if 2008, then the first grads would be 2012. More likely, 2013.

That does raise new issues, though. Can they scale up and maintain the same quality? Are there enough rotations for all of their students? Will their attrition rate / match rate stay the same with larger classes? All of this may work out -- I'm not implying that it won't. But if we're being transparent about it, let's make sure we're all on the same page.

they were recruiting as far back as 2006, I believe. Some of the first staff were from Ross after it was sold to DeVry

 

[Gastrapathy]

@TrinityMDMPH

You'd be well served to answer @gonnif and @aProgDirector. Your math doesn't seem to add up on the surface so your selective answering of other questions is going to make folks skeptical. It's very confusing how you can have 400 total students and 24 2016 placements with your quoted attrition and match rates. Your "at a glance" says those match rates are for "standard track" students.

But, in the meantime, I have a question or two. Who owns Trinity? What does "may be certified by ECFMG" mean? Did you get permission from Hopkins to use that picture? Do you pay for your students to attend Grand Rounds? Where can your graduates practice after residency?

I spot checked your first listed placement (IM at South Alabama) and must be missing the Trinity student. http://www.usahealthsystem.com/internalmedicineresidents

 

[Gastrapathy]

. There is no data gating to reach that number.

Well at least now we know what it's called.

 

[Clarus]

Can we just let this thread die please? Stop it.

 

[Poopocrat]

Hi all! I'm a TSoM M4 who is currently doing a research elective at Hopkins. One other student has already done the same elective.

At Trinity's Baltimore core rotation sites, students are allowed to attend IM and Peds grand rounds. No patient contact at the hospital, but a great learning experience!

I will put my honest opinion about the school in a reply to the original post.

 

[Poopocrat]

Hi all!

I am an M4 finishing up at Trinity.

Briefly, my experience with TsoM has been very positive. The posted statistics jive with what I have seen on the island and in the US during my clinicals.

Trinity has been a second chance at a dream that I thought couldn't come true!

** I am not planning on visiting this forum anymore, send a message if you are interested in my thoughts on the program **

 

[TrinityMDMPH]

Good afternoon and thank you for reading the thread. We posted a new blog complete with our most recent residency matches by program and state.

Please feel free to click the following link and review our 2017 successes.

Trinity School of Medicine Celebrates Residency Match Success in 2017: New Programs, New States, and a Growing Reputation in Healthcare

 

[Chianti]

Hi all! I'm a TSoM M4 who is currently doing a research elective at Hopkins. One other student has already done the same elective.

At Trinity's Baltimore core rotation sites, students are allowed to attend IM and Peds grand rounds. No patient contact at the hospital, but a great learning experience!

I will put my honest opinion about the school in a reply to the original post.

Let me make sure I am understanding you correctly: while completing your core IM and Peds rotations, you are not allowed to see patients on the wards at the hospital? If that is true, then what are you doing all day other than going to Grand Rounds once a week? I caution any prospective students at avoid any school that does not allow you to appropriately function as a third-year medical student (I.e. see patients in the hospital). That clinical placement setup sounds like a bad joke.

 

[Princeton Medical Student]

Good afternoon and thank you for reading the thread. We posted a new blog complete with our most recent residency matches by program and state.

Please feel free to click the following link and review our 2017 successes.

Trinity School of Medicine Celebrates Residency Match Success in 2017: New Programs, New States, and a Growing Reputation in Healthcare

How about giving us a total number of students that entered your class and the number of students who matched.

 

[the argus]

Hi all! I'm a TSoM M4 who is currently doing a research elective at Hopkins. One other student has already done the same elective.

At Trinity's Baltimore core rotation sites, students are allowed to attend IM and Peds grand rounds. No patient contact at the hospital, but a great learning experience!

I will put my honest opinion about the school in a reply to the original post.

Let me make sure I am understanding you correctly: while completing your core IM and Peds rotations, you are not allowed to see patients on the wards at the hospital? If that is true, then what are you doing all day other than going to Grand Rounds once a week? I caution any prospective students at avoid any school that does not allow you to appropriately function as a third-year medical student (I.e. see patients in the hospital). That clinical placement setup sounds like a bad joke.

There's some serious misunderstanding going on here.

Trinity students DO NOT do clinical rotations at Hopkins. They do clinical rotations at other community hospitals around Baltimore (actually most aren't even in Baltimore, they are in the surrounding area) . They go to Hopkins IM and Peds grand rounds every week to watch. This is no big deal because, like most places, anyone can go to grand rounds if they want to. I guess it's a cool thing to do to gain the exposure, but Trinity uses it in their marketing and makes it seem like they have some special relationship with Hopkins. They don't. Anyone could walk off the street to IM grand rounds. After watching grand rounds, Trinity students go back to their IM rotation at XXX community hospital in/around Baltimore. Putting a picture of their medical students in front of the sign at Hopkins and putting it on their website is quite the deceptive marketing ploy.

And again, anyone can do a "research elective" at Hopkins if they want. Since it's non-clinical with no patient contact, it's up to the PI you will be doing research with to allow you in their lab. Lots of high school and college students also do "research electives." The only reason it's a "research elective" is because Trinity chooses to give you credit for it.

 

[TrinityMDMPH]

Our current match rates are 84% for US citizens and 80% for Canadian citizens. We tend to talk about the overall history of the school in this data because we’re a young school, relatively speaking, approaching the decade mark. This means there’s a lot of new territory for our students to grow into. And while Step-1 has been, and likely will remain, the #1 criteria for residency directors year after year, our name being familiar to directors, and having a hard working, compassionate face attached to that name in a new area is always a factor for subsequent students seeking residency. So, we celebrated it in a graphical blog post this year. Please feel free to message me directly if anyone has additional questions.

 

[bedevilled ben]

Our current match rates are 84% for US citizens and 80% for Canadian citizens. We tend to talk about the overall history of the school in this data because we’re a young school, relatively speaking, approaching the decade mark. This means there’s a lot of new territory for our students to grow into. And while Step-1 has been, and likely will remain, the #1 criteria for residency directors year after year, our name being familiar to directors, and having a hard working, compassionate face attached to that name in a new area is always a factor for subsequent students seeking residency. So, we celebrated it in a graphical blog post this year. Please feel free to message me directly if anyone has additional questions.

Dr. Wollman,

I think you have a long road ahead of you, and I don't envy it. But I think it's appropriate to publicly acknowledge your efforts to improve your school's rep. You've been pretty direct with your answers thus far. Please address this dubious association with Hopkins and clarify your school's position. As a Caribbean grad myself, and at the risk of sounding like a Caribbean shill, I hope you continue to be straightforward and direct with your responses. Please don't disappoint me.

 

[FrustratedFamDoc]

I was a part of the last SGU class to attend the St Vincent rotation and lived there for the few months of the rotation. Is the Trinity campus the old SGU campus from when SGU pulled out? Have the student safety concerns (one of the reasons why SGU pulled out) been addressed?

To all the current students, I wish you all the success in the world in your endeavor. The Caribbean road is hard. It was hard when I graduated almost a decade ago, and it's even harder now.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

@TrinityMDMPH / Dr Wollman,

Again, thank you for participating in this discussion. My question from before remains unanswered, so I will ask it again.

You mentioned in your initial post that TSOM accepts two classes, one in the fall and one in Jan. The first class has 60-80 students, and the Jan class is much smaller. Regardless, this would place your school's annual census at around 100 students.

This year's match posting is somewhat vague, as you've compiled a map of where anyone, from 2012-17, has matched. Below that is a list of fields/programs that people have matched to, but no exact listing of matches. That list has 30 institutions listed on it. This does not seem to jive with your reported class sizes, or attrition. One concern raised on this forum is that the Carib schools have very high attrition in the first 2 years. Can you please explain the discontinuity between your stated class size and ultimate match list? Earlier on thread a suggestion was made that perhaps class sizes were smaller for the inaugural class(es), which is a reasonable thought. But TSOM graduated it's first class in 2012 per your posts, so this is the 5th class, I'd expect you'd be up to your full complement by now.