UDS lab in office

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Pacman27

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Looking into doing UDS in my office with my own lab. I have just started looking into this, does anyone who already has a lab within their office have any advice or thoughts?

The prelim numbers look great for an additional revenue source, but am still a little concerned

Thanks

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you dont need a lab to do this..
just the urine drug screen bottles..
its good to get immediate results befoer you prescribe anything.
 
Dipstick is fine for the office billing.

But LC/MS send out for confirmation is needed for standard of care in clinical decision making. ILIT doesn't cut it.
 
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Hey guys thanks for the responses, but I am wondering is there good sound way to profit off the UDS. I hear of other physicians doing the UDS in the office and then billing for each individual drug.

Making anywhere between 120 to 400+ per a screen. Of course some are screening things that do not need to be screened.

I figure if I take the time to prescribe these meds, collect the urine, then I should be able to profit some.
 
what is LC/MS? and whose standard of care dictates you also order a UDS from a lab? the drug may be out of their system before they get it done...
 
what is LC/MS? and whose standard of care dictates you also order a UDS from a lab? the drug may be out of their system before they get it done...

Liquid chromatography/mass spect. Point of care testing dipstick is not great but good initial screen; if dipstick not in agreement with what you expect send for lc/ms. IMO sending urine to a lab is not standard of care issue--more of an issue of being fair to the patient. If you go purely based on dipstick results you are going to make a lot of bad calls (both ways). The same urine sample that the dipstick was done on is sent to lab.
 
what is LC/MS? and whose standard of care dictates you also order a UDS from a lab? the drug may be out of their system before they get it done...

anachronym for liquid chromatography/mass spectrometry.

typical urine tests such as the NIDA 5 are immunoassays that are not accurate enough for appropriate monitoring of patients on chronic opioid therapy. they are not specific enough for appropriate monitoring. for example, a NIDA will most likely be negative in patients on oxycodone. it will not distinguish between heroin and other opioids, and one cannot tell the difference between various opioids.

the standard of care is dictated by the DEA and Controlled Substance Act. i dont think you have to order a UDS from a lab, but i dont know of any offices that can do mass spectrometry or gas spectrometry in their office.
 
anachronym for liquid chromatography/mass spectrometry.

typical urine tests such as the NIDA 5 are immunoassays that are not accurate enough for appropriate monitoring of patients on chronic opioid therapy. they are not specific enough for appropriate monitoring. for example, a NIDA will most likely be negative in patients on oxycodone. it will not distinguish between heroin and other opioids, and one cannot tell the difference between various opioids.

the standard of care is dictated by the DEA and Controlled Substance Act. i dont think you have to order a UDS from a lab, but i dont know of any offices that can do mass spectrometry or gas spectrometry in their office.

A decent GC machine is outrageously expensive. I can't imagine an office having anywhere near the volume one would be worth the expense
 
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I hear of other physicians doing the UDS in the office and then billing for each individual drug.

Making anywhere between 120 to 400+ per a screen. Of course some are screening things that do not need to be screened.

What state are you in?
I thought all the urine dipsticks were now bundled and no one was making any money doing urine dips in the office?
 
where are we supposed to find information on whether or not it is allowed to be billed for in our state? even my med society is unhelpful.
 
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What UDS cups are you guys using for in house testing? Have you fing any one better than others in terms of cost and quality of test result. We also send out for confirmatory tests outside but those comes out v-very expensive. Frankly, I was shocked too to find the cost this outside testing. I am also looking for some suggestions on toxicology labs.
 
The companies that do GC UDS will give you the cups for urine dip if you will send your confirmations to them. Their rep should also buy lunch frequently and wear a short skirt and a push-up bra. A good GC machine could cost 500,000 to set up. You need a CLIA lab. There are companies that offer a fee (that sure looks like a kickback to me) for every sample you send in. I know of a group that has their own GC lab. They offered me a job doing injections saying that they needed someone to make their UDS business look legit.
 


Novel Recovery for Tortious Interference Based on Stark Violations

Earlier in the summer, a Florida jury determined that Millennium Labs (Millennium) violated the Stark Law and anti-kickback law by providing free point of care (POC) testing cups to physicians in exchange for referrals for specimen testing and ordered the company to pay the plaintiff, its competitor, nearly $15 million in damages. POC testing cups permit the physician to immediately read the results of the urine testing. The jury determined that the physicians’ agreement not to bill for the POC testing cups, which constituted remuneration, was offered in exchange for their referrals to Millennium in violation of the Stark Law and anti-kickback law. While Millennium never denied that it provided the cups free of charge to physicians, it contended that, because the physicians agreed not to bill for the cups, no remuneration was provided to them.

The federal district court disagreed with Millennium when it determined that the Stark Law and anti-kickback law were violated in two ways: (1) in many instances the physicians billed Medicare for chemical analyses, and the POC tests were not reimbursable for these same patients; and (2) in other instances the physicians could not receive reimbursement for the POC tests pursuant to its agreement with Millennium not to bill for such service. The court held that in both of these circumstances, the free POC testing cups constituted illegal remuneration paid by Millennium to the physicians. The competitor alleged the conduct violated the Stark Law and anti-kickback law, and such illegal activity constituted tortious interference with the competitor’s relationships.

The case highlights that, although there is no private right of action under the Stark Law and anti-kickback law, the laws may be used as predicate for innovative legal challenges by plaintiffs outside of the False Claims Act. In addition to the novel legal theory employed in the Millennium case, the lab industry continues to be a particular focus of the government with respect to anti-kickback law concerns, with the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Office of Inspector General issuing a Special Fraud Alert in June regarding two recent trends in payments made by labs to referring physicians. The Special Fraud Alert identifies several factors that increase the potential for an anti-kickback law violation in two types of arrangements – compensation paid by labs to referring physicians for specimen collection, processing and packaging, and compensation paid to referring physicians for data reporting to registries.

These cases demonstrate that the federal fraud and abuse laws can be used in a variety of ways—from whistleblower plaintiffs in a False Claims Act to a competitor in a civil lawsuit with tort claims—and providers’ compliance efforts are more important than ever before. Providers not only need to structure new arrangements in compliance with the Stark Law and anti-kickback law but also need to review and take appropriate action on existing arrangements that may need restructuring before the government, a whistleblower or a competitor turn a refund or self-disclosure situation into litigation with potential False Claims Act damages and penalties.

Topics: Anti-Kickback Statute, False Claims Act, Fraud and Abuse, Healthcare, Healthcare Fraud, Settlement, Stark Law, Whistleblowers

Published In: Business Torts Updates, Civil Procedure Updates, Civil Remedies Updates, Health Updates, Labor & Employment Updates
 
The companies that do GC UDS will give you the cups for urine dip if you will send your confirmations to them. Their rep should also buy lunch frequently and wear a short skirt and a push-up bra. A good GC machine could cost 500,000 to set up. You need a CLIA lab. There are companies that offer a fee (that sure looks like a kickback to me) for every sample you send in. I know of a group that has their own GC lab. They offered me a job doing injections saying that they needed someone to make their UDS business look legit.
for that kind of money, i would expect implants...
 
The companies that do GC UDS will give you the cups for urine dip if you will send your confirmations to them. Their rep should also buy lunch frequently and wear a short skirt and a push-up bra. A good GC machine could cost 500,000 to set up. You need a CLIA lab. There are companies that offer a fee (that sure looks like a kickback to me) for every sample you send in. I know of a group that has their own GC lab. They offered me a job doing injections saying that they needed someone to make their UDS business look legit.

well did you take the job? it sounds like a great opportunity...
 
This looks like an old thread but if anyone is looking for a good toxicology lab I highly recommend Quality Toxicology out of San Antonio, Texas for confirmatory testing.
 
LMAO... the Like
 
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