UCLA (full COA) vs Columbia (full tuition) vs Harvard vs Stanford vs Hopkins vs UCSF vs UPenn

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ppr2796

ppr2796

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I am very lucky and thankful to be in this position, but I am very conflicted/overwhelmed. I have not taken the time to compile a detailed written list of pros/cons, so I'm just going to list the few things that come to mind about each school. I do not qualify for financial aid and would like to keep doors open for both getting involved in research/academic medicine or public policy. Any input would be greatly appreciated!

UCLA
Pros
  • Full COA merit scholarship
  • Close to long-term boyfriend
  • New med school building
  • LA (nice city/weather)
Cons
  • It is not very satisfying to give money so much power over my decision
  • Large class size
  • Older curriculum? (Take Step 1 before clinical years)
  • Public - Funding might be at risk?
Columbia
Pros
  • Full tuition merit scholarship
  • Large diversity in class
  • New? curriculum
  • New med school building
  • Surrounded by underserved populations
Cons
  • NYC scares me a little (but open to the adventure)
  • Far from boyfriend/friends

Harvard
Pros
  • 1 year pre-clinical curriculum (that I am familiar with and will fit my learning style)
  • lots of friends in the Boston Area
  • Prestige
  • Great Hospitals
  • Huge number of faculty
Cons
  • Expensive
  • Far from boyfriend
Stanford
Pros
  • "One-campus" seems to actually work
  • lots of TA/RA opportunities ($)
Cons
  • Expensive
Hopkins
Pros
  • Prestige
  • Cheaper COL?
Cons
  • Expensive
  • Baltimore
  • Far from boyfriend
UCSF
Pros
  • Really liked SF
  • Great Hospitals
Cons
  • Expensive
  • Public - Funding might be at risk?
UPenn
Pros
  • Med school on top floors of hospital (also new)
  • Could potentially get a merit scholarship?
Cons
  • Not P/F after first semester
Update: UCLA (Full COA) vs. Columbia (Full tuition) vs. UPenn (Full tuition) vs. UCSF (40k).... feeling very conflicted and have to decide soon. Any specific pros and cons about each school would be greatly appreciated!
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I see you got BU. ( besides 15 of the top 20)
How did you not get yield-protected? They are famous for that.
Got your app is sooo strong. A 3.9 as an engineering major, and that MCAT. Gah. I'm so happy for you !
I'd say UCLA, it's free and no suffering a long distance relationship.
 
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Just for fun as evidence of my above post, in residency director survey these came out as the top 10, with the same line indicating same score

Harvard, Hopkins, UCSF, Penn
Stanford, WashU
Duke, Michigan, Columbia, UCLA

Seriously the difference between UCLA and your other options is non-existent to negligible. It's just ranked a smidge lower for other reasons (like the lower emphasis on MCAT there).
 
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efle said:
Those are the per-year costs right, so really it is UCLA for free vs Columbia/Penn $100k vs UCSF $140k ?

In my opinion it is absurd to consider unnecessary long-distance relationship out of perceived lack of name status for UCLA. You are never ever ever going to be denied a residency interview because you "only" went to UCLA instead of UCSF. Being significantly cheaper is just icing on the cake.


Please do, getting all of these insane options with a 37 MCAT has me extremely curious !
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Yep, those are per year costs.

Most people my age seem to think UCLA is the way to go, but it feels immature to make a life decision like this based on a relationship so young. I want UCLA, but it seems like the decision that 'immature' people my age would make.

I actually took the new MCAT but MDApps only had the older scale.
 
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mwsapphire said:
I see you got BU. ( besides 15 of the top 20)
How did you not get yield-protected? They are famous for that.
Got your app is sooo strong. A 3.9 as an engineering major, and that MCAT. Gah. I'm so happy for you !
I'd say UCLA, it's free and no suffering a long distance relationship.
Click to expand...

Thanks! As for BU, I received a decent merit scholarship, so maybe they accepted me with the intention of being competitive with the scholarship? This process is not very transparent so my guess is probably not much better than yours.
 
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efle said:
Just for fun as evidence of my above post, in residency director survey these came out as the top 10, with the same line indicating same score

Harvard, Hopkins, UCSF, Penn
Stanford, WashU
Duke, Michigan, Columbia, UCLA

Seriously the difference between UCLA and your other options is non-existent to negligible. It's just ranked a smidge lower for other reasons (like the lower emphasis on MCAT there).
Click to expand...

Do you mind linking this survey? (If you have the link)
 
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ppr2796 said:
Yep, those are per year costs.

Most people my age seem to think UCLA is the way to go, but it feels immature to make a life decision like this based on a relationship so young. I want UCLA, but it seems like the decision that 'immature' people my age would make.

I actually took the new MCAT but MDApps only had the older scale.
Click to expand...
Honestly even if you guys aren't soulmates destined to marry down the road, if being close instead of long distance is going to mean you enjoy the next few years a lot better at UCLA, then go to UCLA. Plus like I said, this is also in context of $140,000 saved and equivalent reputation.

Don't worry I know all about the new and old MCATs ! I said 37 because that's what a 520 is the same percentile as.
 
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ppr2796 said:
I'm thinking that UCSF might also have a nice balance between prestige and location (still be on the same coast as SO), but I'm not sure if it is worth the financial difference.
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would live in a tent in muir woods and run away from park rangers every day to stay close to SF, but affordable and SF can't really be put in the same sentence. It's getting apocalyptic over here. Even if it's okay during medical school and you somehow sell your soul for a bedroom that is bigger than a closet, <$2000/month, and <1 hour from all the hospitals (give up on your parking dream now), if you end matching here and wanting more space or want kids or like bagels that cost less than $6...

maybe bagels aren't a deciding factor (for you) but not sure ucsf + relative lack of finan aid + astronomical COL is smart
 
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ppr2796 said:
Most people my age seem to think UCLA is the way to go, but it feels immature to make a life decision like this based on a relationship so young. I want UCLA, but it seems like the decision that 'immature' people my age would make.
Click to expand...

UCLA saves you $100k (which would accumulate some nice looking interest) and is a Top 10 school. The SO can be a bonus. Even if the relationship wasn't a factor (or if it doesn't last), I still don't think deciding to go to UCLA over Columbia/Penn would be foolish.
 
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Dreamer?

That being said I feel like your options are either pay up for the top or go completely free. I would either go with UCLA (free) or with Harvard (paying for prestige). No half measures.
giphy.gif
 
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ppr2796 said:
I have talked with my academic advisor (MD PhD), and a couple of professors/mentors. It usually goes something along the lines of 'l'm sorry, I wish I had the answer for you. I can appreciate the difficulty of the decision though!'
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ppr2796 said:
Most people my age seem to think UCLA is the way to go, but it feels immature to make a life decision like this based on a relationship so young. I want UCLA, but it seems like the decision that 'immature' people my age would make.
Click to expand...

Haha really? I guess my mentors (including several surgeons and EM :D) might be more blunt than yours! All 9 of the attendings I spoke with had very strong opinions on where I should go, and none of them were afraid to voice that opinion. For what it's worth, I was deciding between several of the same schools and similar schools as you, and every single attending--both West Coast and East Coast clinicians--said to take the Geffen Scholarship without a doubt.

After mapping out an estimate of what effect the debt would be down the road, I agreed that UCLA was the best choice, but I still had a hard time leaving behind many of my best friends and my support system that I would have had at a different med school. But since arriving at DGSOM last July, I haven't regretted matriculating here even once.
 
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efle said:
not you too with the "harvard is a class of its own" hype ugh
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I don't think it's a class of its own. I think prestige is a function of lay person name recognition and resources that an organization has. Harvard has both in spades. I don't think it will make an iota of difference in the career outcome for this person.
 
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libertyyne said:
I don't think it's a class of its own. I think prestige is a function of lay person name recognition and resources that an organization has. Harvard has both in spades. I don't think it will make an iota of difference in the career outcome for this person.
Click to expand...

Okay, so what am i missing? So long as neighbor bob isn't deciding the fate of my medical career, why would I take on an extra $200k to impress him?
 
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...and just because I have no studying to do today, I guess here are some more whimsical ways and thoughts I've used in the past to guide my decisions, once the logical methods involving decision trees, pros/cons lists, debt mapping, and ranked needs vs. wants models still leave me drawing a blank. They've worked surprisingly well--especially considering they are n=1, neither placebo-controlled nor double-blinded, unpublished findings, and definitely not validated as part of a Cochrane review--so perhaps you'll find some use for one or two @ppr2796 :)
  • Sometimes I find my decisions are being torn three different directions, by my heart, my brain, and my gut. I've also found that my heart can heal from anything over time; that my brain is great at managing to rationalize anything after the fact, despite its initial inclination; but that my gut is much more difficult to convince, and if it's unhappy then it will never shut up and stop asking, "What if?"
  • I have some of my greatest epiphanies in the strangest places, especially during long drives or in the shower. Just be sure to drive safely if you go with this one (and shower safely too I guess, whatever that means).
  • Perhaps a more extreme version of the coin flip and see what I feel like in mid-air method for finding out what you really want, is the stay up all night and sleep deprive myself until I can't think straight, and see what I want when my mind is disinhibited method. Just be sure to catch up on your sleep debt over the next couple nights before you burn any bridges, to make sure you still think it's a good decision once you can start thinking straight again. I've found this one is actually quite good for overcoming writer's block too, but that's another story...
  • Pretend you're about to tell Mom/Dad/boyfriend/best friend that you picked school X tomorrow morning. You don't actually have to pretend that hard of course, considering how close April 30th is. Suppose he/she may then respond, "Really! Congrats! Why did you finally decide on school X?" In your mind, explain to their imaginary self why you chose school X. Once done, jot down the salient points of your explanation, as well as your emotional reaction while explaining it. Then, rinse and repeat for school Y, and school Z, and then school #4 for which I've run out of letters. This will boil it down to what really matters to you in the end; I guarantee it will not be a simple reiteration of the pros and cons you listed in your OP. The emotional reaction you have while explaining each decision to a simulated loved one will also speak for itself.
 
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deev04 said:
Okay, so what am i missing? So long as neighbor bob isn't deciding the fate of my medical career, why would I take on an extra $200k to impress him?
Click to expand...
There is no rational reason, however we are not a completely rational species. And for better or for worse these irrationalities are ingrained in our society, and we don't live on an island.
 
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Oh I mean yeah, by layperson prestige Harvard and Stanford win every time and most people haven't even heard of UCSF

But like deev said, it's residency directors and such you gotta care about
 
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Radiata20 said:
...and just because I have no studying to do today, I guess here are some more whimsical ways and thoughts I've used in the past to guide my decisions, once the logical methods involving decision trees, pros/cons lists, debt mapping, and ranked needs vs. wants models still leave me drawing a blank. They've worked surprisingly well--especially considering they are n=1, neither placebo-controlled nor double-blinded, unpublished findings, and definitely not validated as part of a Cochrane review--so perhaps you'll find some use for one or two @ppr2796 :)
  • Sometimes I find my decisions are being torn three different directions, by my heart, my brain, and my gut. I've also found that my heart can heal from anything over time; that my brain is great at managing to rationalize anything after the fact, despite its initial inclination; but that my gut is much more difficult to convince, and if it's unhappy then it will never shut up and stop asking, "What if?"
  • I have some of my greatest epiphanies in the strangest places, especially during long drives or in the shower. Just be sure to drive safely if you go with this one (and shower safely too I guess, whatever that means).
  • Perhaps a more extreme version of the coin flip and see what I feel like in mid-air method for finding out what you really want, is the stay up all night and sleep deprive myself until I can't think straight, and see what I want when my mind is disinhibited method. Just be sure to catch up on your sleep debt over the next couple nights before you burn any bridges, to make sure you still think it's a good decision once you can start thinking straight again. I've found this one is actually quite good for overcoming writer's block too, but that's another story...
  • Pretend you're about to tell Mom/Dad/boyfriend/best friend that you picked school X tomorrow morning. You don't actually have to pretend that hard of course, considering how close April 30th is. Suppose he/she may then respond, "Really! Congrats! Why did you finally decide on school X?" In your mind, explain to their imaginary self why you chose school X. Once done, jot down the salient points of your explanation, as well as your emotional reaction while explaining it. Then, rinse and repeat for school Y, and school Z, and then school #4 for which I've run out of letters. This will boil it down to what really matters to you in the end; I guarantee it will not be a simple reiteration of the pros and cons you listed in your OP. The emotional reaction you have while explaining each decision to a simulated loved one will also speak for itself.
Click to expand...

Thank you so much @Radiata20 ! I'm definitely a bullet two type of thinker, but I think implementing the last bullet could be really helpful.
 
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Radiata20 said:
Perhaps a more extreme version of the coin flip and see what I feel like in mid-air method for finding out what you really want, is the stay up all night and sleep deprive myself until I can't think straight, and see what I want when my mind is disinhibited method.
Click to expand...
You know you can do this a lot faster and easier with booze, right?
 
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efle said:
You know you can do this a lot faster and easier with booze, right?
Click to expand...

I felt that the suggestion of EtOH might be perceived as an unprofessional one, unbefitting of my role here as an ambassador for our school :laugh:
 
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efle said:
Oh I mean yeah, by layperson prestige Harvard and Stanford win every time and most people haven't even heard of UCSF

But like deev said, it's residency directors and such you gotta care about
Click to expand...
These schools are functionally the same for pds.
 
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Medical school is only the vehicle to get you to your residency and much of that outcome is a function of your individual effort more than the quality of your program. If prestige is weighing in your decision, you should recognize that having the Geffen scholarship at the top of your resume will impress residency directors more than any top med school.
 
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Absurd. Can't go wrong. But out of curiosity, what else was it to your resume that stood out so exceptionally? I mean, jfc.
 
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What the hell kinda GPA do you have. Congratulations though you must have worked ridiculously hard. My opinion would be Harvard.
 
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Personally, I'd reapply broadly to DO schools next year and hope for better luck.



Lolzzz. I wish I knew you so I could say I knew you. And if I knew you, I'd throat punch you for turning down a full ride to one of the best medical schools in the US. Go to UCLA. Congrats
 
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Hey guys, sorry for the delay! I am still in school and have had a very rough week. I was planning on posting last night but sdn was down for some reason. Anyway, I might not get much love from the thread given the strong support for UCLA, but I decided to attend UCSF with a roughly full tuition scholarship.

Although turning down the large UCLA stipend was very tough, while withdrawing from other schools over the weekend I realized that I felt terrible choosing schools for purely financial reasons. I figured that the merit scholarships made Columbia, UPenn, UCLA, and UCSF all financially feasible options (I will graduate with little or no debt from all of them) and chose the school where I thought I would thrive the most (a combination of the people, their new curriculum, and overall life happiness). I am very excited to live in a city like SF and I will be on the same coast as my boyfriend. Plus, we’ll have two awesome cities two explore in the next four years.

Thanks to everyone that provided advice, and to those that offered to answer school-specific questions!

efle said:
Bruh if you aren't comfortable sharing your choice, at least update your MDapps :/
Click to expand...

I’m not sure I will elaborate more on my MDapp as it would include too much identifying information (some people already have identified me). I’d be happy to answer any specific questions over direct message, but please be patient with my response time.
 
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ppr2796 said:
Hey guys, sorry for the delay! I am still in school and have had a very rough week. I was planning on posting last night but sdn was down for some reason. Anyway, I might not get much love from the thread given the strong support for UCLA, but I decided to attend UCSF with a roughly full tuition scholarship.

Although turning down the large UCLA stipend was very tough, while withdrawing from other schools over the weekend I realized that I felt terrible choosing schools for purely financial reasons. I figured that the merit scholarships made Columbia, UPenn, UCLA, and UCSF all financially feasible options (I will graduate with little or no debt from all of them) and chose the school where I thought I would thrive the most (a combination of the people, their new curriculum, and overall life happiness). I am very excited to live in a city like SF and I will be on the same coast as my boyfriend. Plus, we’ll have two awesome cities two explore in the next four years.

Thanks to everyone that provided advice, and to those that offered to answer school-specific questions!



I’m not sure I will elaborate more on my MDapp as it would include too much identifying information (some people already have identified me). I’d be happy to answer any specific questions over direct message, but please be patient with my response time.
Click to expand...

Congrats on your decision! Any of those schools would be lucky to have you, and it sounds like you're very happy with your choice :)
 
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So SDN will never get to see what earned someone the only top 5 sweep I've ever seen on here :(

Then again, it's not surprising the type of app that gets this outcome would be extremely unique and easy to identify.

Congrats!
 
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