U Wisconsin-Madison vs. Jefferson (also on 5 wait lists)

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inhcas

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Hi, all,

I recently got into Jeff, so now I have to make a choice between UW and Jeff. Yes, they're very different schools/environments. I was hoping I could get some thoughts from you guys! I'm also trying to talk to students at the two schools.

Overall thoughts:

How should I go about making this decision, if finances are equal? I guess I should try to determine fit and where I'd thrive more? Culture/feel? (Jeff was so loving; UW was also nice/chill, but Jeff emphasized their culture a lot on interview day. But I shouldn't think only Jeff students are nice!)

How much of a factor should my career aspirations (emergency med) play, since they could change? What about my interest in strength training? I could certainly pursue this at UW; at Jeff, I'd have to create opportunities, either with classmates or at Penn (already contacted the coach, they will let me train and intern with them even as a Jeff student).

Edit: Remember what I wrote above about my career aspirations changing? I've been reading about PM&R and sports med, so now those really appeal to me. This may or may not be related to Jeff having a great/#7 ortho hospital in the form of Rothman (UW's is #50 - but that's just according to USN&WR, which I dislike).

Wait list: BU, U Chicago, Georgetown, Penn, and USUHS
Penn would be my first choice, though USUHS also seems like a good fit for me.
Next on the list: U Chicago and Georgetown would also receive serious consideration if I got in.
I don't care too much about BU.

A little about me:

I'm 29 y/o, Asian, no close family in Midwest or East Coast, but I know more people on the East Coast. I grew up in CA, went to undergrad in western MA, then left for four years before returning to Boston for the last two years to finish a postbac. I like the East Coast. I have not lived in the Midwest, though I've visited Chicago a few times. I did like Madison when I visited.

My friend told me she sees me more at a rural place because I'm active and like doing things outside, but I also like the busyness of the city. I think Madison is definitely outdoorsy, and the town is busy enough. Philly is definitely busy, and I could access "nature" easily enough.

I plan to practice clinical medicine more than do research. If I do research, I'd try to do social science research (definitely no bench). I’m also interested in teaching, global health, or narrative medicine. Currently, specialty-wise, I hope to go into EM with a subspecialty in wilderness medicine or aerospace medicine (but I'm open to exploring all specialties - including things like ortho, PM&R, or sports medicine). I want to work all over the world in remote locations (polar regions, Antarctica, research stations, expeditions, military/overseas deployments). It would also be cool to work in the private space travel industry, though the medicine itself might not be that interesting (just because it would be check-ups of healthy people). I'm interested in military med (went to USMC OCS in the past), though not 100% sure yet about doing HPSP. I may even decide after my first year of med school to do it.

BTW I hate the concept of rankings, but sometimes it matters, so I listed them. So, UW is considered to be a better school than Jeff? Why? Is it just because that's how it worked out in the US News calculations? Of course, the ranking doesn't reflect individual fit.

-------------------------

UW
170K loans, unless I do HPSP
Rank: #28 in research, #14 in primary care
New-ish 1.5-yr pre-clinical curriculum

Pros
  • Only game in town in terms of healthcare
  • Lots of opportunities/resources because it’s a big state school in the capital
  • In the capital -> easy to get public policy experience
  • Madison is a great town
  • Year-round farmer’s market
  • Winter activities like skiing, ice climbing
  • Can try out ice climbing
  • Can continue to play ice hockey, and with people who are actually good (and will kick my butt but oh well)
  • Small town, easy to bike around
  • Low cost of living -> can live in a single
  • AMAZING athletics department, big sports school -> can get strength and conditioning training experience and train with strong people
  • Other schools/programs/departments that I can learn from (I’m interested in learning about design theory at the moment)
  • Kind of close to Chicago
  • VA hospital is close (at Jeff, I’d have to cross the river to Penn to go to the VA hospital)
  • Level 1 trauma center
  • Their “phase” curriculum seems to make sense - but I figure I'll adapt to any curriculum
Cons
  • Not as diverse ethnically as Philly
  • It did seem like some of the students were young, or came from UW undergrad, or were in-state -> just got a homogeneous vibe, though I'm sure they're all great people
  • Gets cold (I like cold, but maybe not so cold or for so long)
  • A few hours away from Chicago
  • Climbing gym is far (45 min by bike, 25 min by car, 1 hour by bus) -> will need to drive with a friend because I'm trying not to have a car
  • New-ish curriculum (will have kinks - but so will Jeff's)
  • If I wanted to explore applying design theory to healthcare, I'd have to create those opportunities myself.
-------------------------

Jeff
No financial aid news yet - though may do HPSP
Rank: #53 in research, #51 in primary care
Pre-clinical period: 22 months

Pros
  • Philly is good for seeing EM/trauma, and I probably won’t have to compete with other students too much
  • Diverse (people, food)
  • Philly is great!
  • Climbing gym is closer (15 min by bike, 20 min by car, 20 min by public transportation)
  • Large class size -> more people to meet
  • Design track -> I’ve recently become interested in design theory. I plan to apply to this if I go to Jeff. This differentiates Jeff from UW.
  • They incorporate humanities into the curriculum.
  • The students were so happy/chill/relaxed/warm - it was the most loving school I went to
  • Can still try to link up with S&C coaches in the area to train with and learn from/intern under -> I contacted Penn's S&C coach, who said I could train/intern with them. I know I won't have much time, but I can at least train with them occasionally.
  • Close to other East Coast cities (NYC, DC, Baltimore, Boston)
Cons
  • More expensive than Madison, though still not too bad - but might have to live with roommates (not necessarily good or bad). Jeff housing is expensive (though nice - it’s basically a hotel room). The cost is slightly more than if I found my own housing.
  • No hardcore athletics/lifting program -> I’d look for training partners at Jeff or at schools or gyms around the city.
  • If I wanted to do biomechanics research, I'd have to do it at Penn or something (whereas UW has such a lab on campus) -> basically, research opportunities are more limited because it's not a big state school like UW, though I'm not looking to have a research career.
  • No VA hospital -> I'd have to cross the river to Penn
  • New curriculum (will have kinks - but so will UW's) - but I figure I'll adapt to any curriculum
-------------------------

Thanks for any help you can provide!
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Jeff. Based on em stuff and because Madison is not a very diverse place. There isn't really a bad choice, wis has better ranking ,but there is a large PC focus.
 
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I agree Jeff. With all of your hobbies/interests (plus not wanting to have a car), philadelphia >>>>> Madison.
 
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I'm going to be the outlier here and vote for Wisconsin. You asked why they are ranked so much higher and it's because they are very strong in research (they even discovered Warfarin; Warf stands for Wisconsin Alumni Research Foundation). I know a few med students there and they are all really happy. Madison is also an awesome little city, very affordable and not too far from Chicago if you ever need to getaway to a bigger city - a weekend trip is definitely doable. Whenever I drive to Chicago I pass through Madison and it's only takes me like 2 hours and 20 minutes from there. The school's tuition is also really affordable and if Jeff ends up costing you less than 170k (with living expenses) I'll be surprised.
 
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Jeff is not known for its financial aid. They calculated my EFC to be over 3x higher than FAFSA. Your package may make this decision easy for you.

In regards to Philadelphia, it is a great city. However, it is not easy to get outdoors. The Wisahicken park system is nice, but not super accessible to downtown. Beyond that, it will take quite a bit of driving to get into wilderness.

Getting from Jeff --> Penn is not difficult. I would not worry about it.
 
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@deev04

I've been reading your insightful comments on other posts, and I'd like to get your take on my situation if possible.

Emotionally

Jeff seems wonderful and warm. It's been so easy to get in touch with Jeff students, who have been so helpful. I think I'd be happy there because: Jeff's culture seems warm and supportive, Philly is great, the climbing wall is within biking distance, I know people I could lift with at Jeff, I could train/intern with the Penn S&C department, JeffDESIGN program, I'd like to try to shadow and/or do research at Rothman.

UW: It's been harder to talk to students there. Maybe there are extenuating circumstances, like they're busy with exams whereas I know Jeff just finished finals. I'm sure there are warm people there; I just haven't talked to them yet. I would love to connect with the S&C coaches and sports team coaches, many of whom were pro athletes. Madison is awesome (though it gets cold). I think the faculty and administration are very supportive.

Cost

I haven't gotten Jeff's financial aid yet, but it's probably going to be more expensive than UW. If I do HPSP, though, financial aid won't be a factor. In any case, I'm not making this a huge factor - for now.

Prestige

They're both mid-tier schools, right? UW is 28/14, and Jeff is 53/51. In that range, are they comparable in prestige? Perhaps UW has more because they have a lot of research money. Disclosure: I don't want a research career, but if I did it, I would do it to learn more about ortho or sports med, and in case I want to go into a competitive specialty. I'm also interested in EM and wilderness med, but the descriptions of EM projects that I've glanced so far at seem dull/boring. This could be because research doesn't really capture me that much (or maybe I'll discover I don't actually want to do EM?). I've done and didn't like bench or data-analysis-at-a-computer research, but I did enjoy recruiting patients by giving presentations in various languages.

I just don't want any doors to be closed to me by going to Jeff that would have been open had I gone to UW.

Match lists

What do you think of the match lists? I've lived on the west and east coasts and never in the Midwest. I'm not ruling out life in the Midwest, but I just don't know it very well. But I've moved around a lot, and I can see myself continuing to move around throughout my life.

Copied from post #9 above:
Just looking at the match lists (if I did military med, then this wouldn't matter too much). How would you describe them? Does either have more "good"/top tier programs? Is UW or Jeff better than the other?

UW: Medical Students Learn Residency Locations at Match Day 2017

Jeff 2017: Official Match Lists 2017...
Jeff 2016: http://www.jefferson.edu/content/dam/university/skmc/admissions/Match2016.pdf

Things that one school has and the other lacks

What I like about UW that Jeff lacks
Big state school resources, research dollars
Athletics program with famous/well-connected coaches (networking opportunities)

How I can make up for that:
Research at Rothman Institute or a nearby school (Penn)
Lift with classmates, go to Penn and train/intern with their S&C department.
Probably Rothman docs have Philly sports team connections, but this is like 2 degrees of separation, whereas at UW, we would all be part of the same community/school. And it would be hard to shadow at pro games or practices due to team rules; it's probably not possible since every med student would be going to practices or games if it were.

What I like about Jeff that UW lacks
Design track, Philly

How I can make up for that:
Seek out opportunities to learn about design theory at the School of Human Ecology, maybe create a design theory interest group or find classmates interested in doing a project. Not sure how time-consuming this would be; at least at Jeff, I could just do an already-established program.

Appreciate Madison (because Chicago is too far at 2.5 hours away -> can’t compare to proximity of Philly)

Thanks for any thoughts you can share! And thanks for helping us out on this site!
 
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Right now, I am leaning toward Jeff. But I wanted to ask about one last consideration: length of pre-clinical curriculum.

UW: 18 months
Jeff: 22 months

tl;dr: How big of a difference does this four months make?

--

A Jeff dean said:

"Clearly, getting out into your clinical rotations sooner will be more fun and gets you doing what you want to do sooner. You will certainly be more prepared clinically for your fourth year electives given your additional clinical experience over what most students have. I’m not sure how much the four less months of preclinical plays into USMLE scores (I’d guess that it is not likely to make a difference as UW would not have done something that would put their students at a disadvantage.

Put the difference in length of preclinical time and the one year’s experience with the curriculum into your equation. Only you know the correction factor for each (everyone places a different value on those items). Your brain has been working to calculate each school’s rank. It comes out through your heart – go where you feel is best."

In my heart, I lean toward Jeff and Philly. UW feels staid currently, but I will learn to love wherever I go. But the Jeff community seems like such a warm and loving place with cool people, and I'd love to be a part of that family. And Center City is awesome. Not that UW isn't filled with people like that. But I just don't know it as well!

I've talked to so many Jeff-affiliated people vs. three UW students and one UW dean. The Jeff people seemed to love their school and used emotion-laden adjectives to describe why, whereas UW people merely said that UW is great and answered my questions (which I'm grateful for), but I didn't get that sense that they were super excited about their school and wanted to tell me all about why (like at Jeff). They didn't refer me to classmates who had interests similar to mine (like at Jeff).

--

Is that four months important enough to go to UW for? I think Jeff is known for their clinical care and training you to be a clinician - that their clinical training is top-notch. It certainly seemed that their students had good people skills, and I hope that can rub off on me. So I kind of think I don't need to worry about lacking preparation. I just need to make sure that I make conscious efforts to attain clinical skills and experience to be as good as I can at interacting with patients and colleagues.

As far as cost, neither will offer any scholarships (got UW's finaid, haven't gotten Jeff's). Including everything, UW is $70K/year, and Jeff is $80K/year. So they are similar. If I do HPSP, the cost will not be a big deciding factor anyway.

What do y'all think?
 
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inhcas said:
Right now, I am leaning toward Jeff. But I wanted to ask about one last consideration: length of pre-clinical curriculum.

UW: 18 months
Jeff: 22 months

tl;dr: How big of a difference does this four months make?

--

A Jeff dean said:

"Clearly, getting out into your clinical rotations sooner will be more fun and gets you doing what you want to do sooner. You will certainly be more prepared clinically for your fourth year electives given your additional clinical experience over what most students have. I’m not sure how much the four less months of preclinical plays into USMLE scores (I’d guess that it is not likely to make a difference as UW would not have done something that would put their students at a disadvantage.

Put the difference in length of preclinical time and the one year’s experience with the curriculum into your equation. Only you know the correction factor for each (everyone places a different value on those items). Your brain has been working to calculate each school’s rank. It comes out through your heart – go where you feel is best."

In my heart, I lean toward Jeff and Philly. UW feels staid currently, but I will learn to love wherever I go. But the Jeff community seems like such a warm and loving place with cool people, and I'd love to be a part of that family. And Center City is awesome. Not that UW isn't filled with people like that. But I just don't know it as well!

I've talked to so many Jeff-affiliated people vs. three UW students and one UW dean. The Jeff people seemed to love their school and used emotion-laden adjectives to describe why, whereas UW people merely said that UW is great and answered my questions (which I'm grateful for), but I didn't get that sense that they were super excited about their school and wanted to tell me all about why (like at Jeff). They didn't refer me to classmates who had interests similar to mine (like at Jeff).

--

Is that four months important enough to go to UW for? I think Jeff is known for their clinical care and training you to be a clinician - that their clinical training is top-notch. It certainly seemed that their students had good people skills, and I hope that can rub off on me. So I kind of think I don't need to worry about lacking preparation. I just need to make sure that I make conscious efforts to attain clinical skills and experience to be as good as I can at interacting with patients and colleagues.

As far as cost, neither will offer any scholarships (got UW's finaid, haven't gotten Jeff's). Including everything, UW is $70K/year, and Jeff is $80K/year. So they are similar. If I do HPSP, the cost will not be a big deciding factor anyway.

What do y'all think?
Click to expand...
UW

Shorter pre-clinical is a boon. More time for your research/rotations etc.

Idk who all you talked to, but badger pride runs deep in Madison. You'd be joining an incredible community at UW.
 
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FYI: the 22 months at Jeff includes 2 months of dedicated step time, so the true preclinical is only 20 months. clinicals start mid-april of M2.
 
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