transfer a newly prescribed controlled medication

[Deja]

So I should know this, but you can't transfer a newly prescribed C-III or C-V if you have never filled it before?

Let's say a doctor calls in a C-III and you put it on file, then the patient calls and want it at another pharmacy... you can't transfer it, the doctor has to call it in to the other pharmacy?

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[txpharmguy]

So I should know this, but you can't transfer a newly prescribed C-III or C-V if you have never filled it before?

Let's say a doctor calls in a C-III and you put it on file, then the patient calls and want it at another pharmacy... you can't transfer it, the doctor has to call it in to the other pharmacy?

Sure you can. Same restrictions apply even if you didn't actual fill it out

 

[Deja]

Sure you can. Same restrictions apply even if you didn't actual fill it out

That's what I thought, but someone adamantly told me that you can't...

 

[zelman]

I don't think so. The DEA says "The transfer of original prescription information for a controlled substance listed in Schedule III, IV, or V for the purpose of refill dispensing is permissible between pharmacies on a one-time basis only. However, pharmacies electronically sharing a real-time, online database may transfer up to the maximum refills permitted by law and the prescriber's authorization." It doesn't seem to allow original fills to be transferred.

 

[Deja]

I don't think so. The DEA says "The transfer of original prescription information for a controlled substance listed in Schedule III, IV, or V for the purpose of refill dispensing is permissible between pharmacies on a one-time basis only. However, pharmacies electronically sharing a real-time, online database may transfer up to the maximum refills permitted by law and the prescriber's authorization." It doesn't seem to allow original fills to be transferred.

does anyone's computer system put a stop to the transfer when you try to transfer a original fill? I think this happened to me once last year... I have been meaning to find an answer but have been lazy lol

 

[mentos]

I think it varies by state but the computer will stop you if it's an original fill. If it's a refill, it lets you do the transfer.

 

[Sine Cura]

Walmart now explicitly prohibits transfer of new CIII-CV prescriptions for controlled substances company-wide in an update to SOP (a couple days ago), citing exactly the DEA regulation cited above. May state regulations use the same language as the DEA, so you probably shouldn't have been doing this wherever you work.

We are told to inform the prescriber of inability to fill in case we have a reason not to fill (OOS, invalid Rx, patient behavior etc) so that there is an opportunity for the prescriber to send an Rx somewhere else.

Walmart's system does not block the transfer, but there a lot of things the system won't block or create an alert for...

 

[pharm B]

I don't think so. The DEA says "The transfer of original prescription information for a controlled substance listed in Schedule III, IV, or V for the purpose of refill dispensing is permissible between pharmacies on a one-time basis only. However, pharmacies electronically sharing a real-time, online database may transfer up to the maximum refills permitted by law and the prescriber's authorization." It doesn't seem to allow original fills to be transferred.

That seems awfully unclear to me. Is there a decision or FAQ from DEA that spells this out? I don't think I've transferred any originals, but I wouldn't have stopped it prior to this discussion.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[txpharmguy]

I don't think so. The DEA says "The transfer of original prescription information for a controlled substance listed in Schedule III, IV, or V for the purpose of refill dispensing is permissible between pharmacies on a one-time basis only. However, pharmacies electronically sharing a real-time, online database may transfer up to the maximum refills permitted by law and the prescriber's authorization." It doesn't seem to allow original fills to be transferred.

You're overthinking this one. If the original rx was never filled, it's not a refill. You would treat as a new rx, but the transfer out limit would be in effect. Iow, if original called into Walgreens but pt wants to get it filled at CVS, all remaining fills (including first filling) would have to be at CVS

 

[owlegrad]

Is there a decision or FAQ from DEA that spells this out?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

But seriously, they are pretty notorious for vague direction. For myself, it has never bothered me to transfer an original prescription. I can't really wrap my head around why the patient would have needed to fill at least one pill at my pharmacy before I can transfer it to another pharmacy. If that is what the DEA wants of course then it doesn't matter if it "makes sense" though.

 

[txpharmguy]

Walmart now explicitly prohibits transfer of new CIII-CV prescriptions for controlled substances company-wide in an update to SOP (a couple days ago), citing exactly the DEA regulation cited above. May state regulations use the same language as the DEA, so you probably shouldn't have been doing this wherever you work.

We are told to inform the prescriber of inability to fill in case we have a reason not to fill (OOS, invalid Rx, patient behavior etc) so that there is an opportunity for the prescriber to send an Rx somewhere else.

Walmart's system does not block the transfer, but there a lot of things the system won't block or create an alert for...

PART 1306 — PRESCRIPTIONS
CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES LISTED IN SCHEDULES III, IV, and V
§1306.25 Transfer between pharmacies of prescription information for Schedules III, IV, and V controlled substances for refill purposes.
(a) The transfer of original prescription information for a controlled substance listed in Schedule III, IV, or V for the purpose of refill dispensing is permissible between pharmacies on a one-time basis only. However, pharmacies electronically sharing a real-time, online database may transfer up to the maximum refills permitted by law and the prescriber's authorization.

(b) Transfers are subject to the following requirements:

(1) The transfer must be communicated directly between two licensed pharmacists.

(2) The transferring pharmacist must do the following:

(i) Write the word “VOID” on the face of the invalidated prescription; for electronic prescriptions, information that the prescription has been transferred must be added to the prescription record.

(ii) Record on the reverse of the invalidated prescription the name, address, and DEA registration number of the pharmacy to which it was transferred and the name of the pharmacist receiving the prescription information; for electronic prescriptions, such information must be added to the prescription record.

(iii) Record the date of the transfer and the name of the pharmacist transferring the information.

(3) For paper prescriptions and prescriptions received orally and reduced to writing by the pharmacist pursuant to §1306.21(a), the pharmacist receiving the transferred prescription information must write the word “transfer” on the face of the transferred prescription and reduce to writing all information required to be on a prescription pursuant to §1306.05 and include:

(i) Date of issuance of original prescription.

(ii) Original number of refills authorized on original prescription.

(iii) Date of original dispensing.

(iv) Number of valid refills remaining and date(s) and locations of previous refill(s).

(v) Pharmacy's name, address, DEA registration number, and prescription number from which the prescription information was transferred.

(vi) Name of pharmacist who transferred the prescription.

(vii) Pharmacy's name, address, DEA registration number, and prescription number from which the prescription was originally filled.

(4) For electronic prescriptions being transferred electronically, the transferring pharmacist must provide the receiving pharmacist with the following information in addition to the original electronic prescription data:

(i) The date of the original dispensing.

(ii) The number of refills remaining and the date(s) and locations of previous refills.

(iii) The transferring pharmacy's name, address, DEA registration number, and prescription number for each dispensing.

(iv) The name of the pharmacist transferring the prescription.

(v) The name, address, DEA registration number, and prescription number from the pharmacy that originally filled the prescription, if different.

(5) The pharmacist receiving a transferred electronic prescription must create an electronic record for the prescription that includes the receiving pharmacist's name and all of the information transferred with the prescription under paragraph (b)(4) of this section.

(c) The original and transferred prescription(s) must be maintained for a period of two years from the date of last refill.

(d) Pharmacies electronically accessing the same prescription record must satisfy all information requirements of a manual mode for prescription transferal.

(e) The procedure allowing the transfer of prescription information for refill purposes is permissible only if allowable under existing State or other applicable law.

[75 FR 16309, Mar. 31, 2010

We, at Walgreens, manually transfer these all the time for CIII-V. It's an archaic law, but since we share a real on-time electronic database we can transfer as allowed up to the six fills (original plus 5 refills). And while we're talking about it, a short fill (ie, less than 30 days) doesn't count as one of the refills

 

[Deja]

sooooo can you or can't you? lol I don't understand why we can't, esp if its a new prescription for a refill

Off topic, but I have also noticed confusion among some pharmacists on # of refills allowed on controlled meds in Cali... it's limited to 5 times or 120 days... so if it's 30 days supply then it's only 4 refills allowed

 

[txpharmguy]

sooooo can you or can't you? lol I don't understand why we can't, esp if its a new prescription for a refill

Off topic, but I have also noticed confusion among some pharmacists on # of refills allowed on controlled meds in Cali... it's limited to 5 times or 120 days... so if it's 30 days supply then it's only 4 refills allowed

Can't speak for California law, but nowhere does it say you CAN'T do what OP said in original post

 

[zelman]

You're overthinking this one. If the original rx was never filled, it's not a refill. You would treat as a new rx, but the transfer out limit would be in effect. Iow, if original called into Walgreens but pt wants to get it filled at CVS, all remaining fills (including first filling) would have to be at CVS

So, are pharmacists at Walgreens "agents of the prescriber"? It is my understanding that they are the only ones who can phone in new controlled substance prescriptions.

 

[Sine Cura]

We, at Walgreens, manually transfer these all the time for CIII-V. It's an archaic law, but since we share a real on-time electronic database we can transfer as allowed up to the six fills (original plus 5 refills). And while we're talking about it, a short fill (ie, less than 30 days) doesn't count as one of the refills

You can do whatever at Walgreens all the time. Doesn't mean it's permissible. Saying so-and-so doesn't say what you can't do is disingenuous. As a classic example, most BOP don't say anything about dispensing more than the quantity written, but this is generally impermissible because you are deviating from the requirements of the prescription.

What Zelman just said is exactly the problem with transferring a never-filled Rx (are you the agent of the practitioner? No)
and is explicitly addressed by some boards of pharmacy.

In Massachusetts you are allowed to transfer only never-filled non-controls (Source).

In Texas, transferring is ok for the purpose of INITIAL dispensing as well: "For the purpose of initial or refill dispensing, the transfer of original prescription drug order information is permissible between pharmacies" (Source).

Of course the Texas regulation is in conflict with the CSA referring to "refill dispensing" only.

Walmart is very conservative. They don't even want P.O. boxes for addresses even though there is no regulation about this at all. CA security printers print prescription forms all the time with P.O. boxes...

In CA, the refill limit of a 120-day supply of refills applies to CIII and CIV only. You can have five refills that constitute up to a 120-day supply based on the original order.

 

[txpharmguy]

You can do whatever at Walgreens all the time. Doesn't mean it's permissible. Saying so-and-so doesn't say what you can't do is disingenuous. As a classic example, most BOP don't say anything about dispensing more than the quantity written, but this is generally impermissible because you are deviating from the requirements of the prescription.

What Zelman just said is exactly the problem with transferring a never-filled Rx (are you the agent of the practitioner? No)
and is explicitly addressed by some boards of pharmacy.

In Massachusetts you are allowed to transfer only never-filled non-controls (Source).

In Texas, transferring is ok for the purpose of INITIAL dispensing as well: "For the purpose of initial or refill dispensing, the transfer of original prescription drug order information is permissible between pharmacies" (Source).

Of course the Texas regulation is in conflict with the CSA referring to "refill dispensing" only.

Walmart is very conservative. They don't even want P.O. boxes for addresses even though there is no regulation about this at all. CA security printers print prescription forms all the time with P.O. boxes...

In CA, the refill limit of a 120-day supply of refills applies to CIII and CIV only. You can have five refills that constitute up to a 120-day supply based on the original order.

Thank you for providing sources. Obviously, there may be differences in state boards of pharmacy and the stricter law is some states would be what the pharmacist should follow. Sometimes these laws are vague and can be open to interpretation. I respectfully disagree with you in saying I'm being disingenuous. Unless, something is explicitly prohibited in the law, one pharmacist may be interpret the law differently than another pharmacist. Just my humble opinion

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

So I should know this, but you can't transfer a newly prescribed C-III or C-V if you have never filled it before?

Let's say a doctor calls in a C-III and you put it on file, then the patient calls and want it at another pharmacy... you can't transfer it, the doctor has to call it in to the other pharmacy?

Let me guess, you're a Wal-Mart RPh and your district manager just gave you that pants-on-head stupid email?

Corporate Wal-Mart misinterpreted that law big time.

EDIT: just read the rest of the thread.


Wow, this isn't how laws work.

 

[waiter]

so you can dispense 1 tablet then transfer the prescription?

 

[ldiot]

I don't know what all the interpretations are but in the real world I'm pretty sure most pharmacies will transfer it whether it is new or not but the limit to the number of times that it can be transferred is considered in either case. If your company tells you otherwise I'd just do what they say to be honest.

 

[wagrxm2000]

Wow, has no one ever had an inspection before? They look at a few scripts make sure everything is legal then move onto the next box on their checklist. If something is wrong they simply cite you and tell you to fix it. No big deal.

Just transfer the script, you aren't going to lose your license. No wonder people hate their job, they are too busy worrying about pointless things that simply get them behind.

 

[zelman]

http://www.pharmacytimes.com/contri...lations-the-community-pharmacist-should-know-

 

[Deja]

Wow, has no one ever had an inspection before? They look at a few scripts make sure everything is legal then move onto the next box on their checklist. If something is wrong they simply cite you and tell you to fix it. No big deal.

Just transfer the script, you aren't going to lose your license. No wonder people hate their job, they are too busy worrying about pointless things that simply get them behind.

you are missing the point

I have transferred out never filled controls before, but I think I got a hard stop in my system that wouldn't let me transfer once awhile back (and a Walgreen pharmacist said it wasn't allowed); so I just want to see if there is an official answer to this

 

[ldiot]

Wow, has no one ever had an inspection before? They look at a few scripts make sure everything is legal then move onto the next box on their checklist. If something is wrong they simply cite you and tell you to fix it. No big deal.

Just transfer the script, you aren't going to lose your license. No wonder people hate their job, they are too busy worrying about pointless things that simply get them behind.

Agreed. Ironically the pharmacists that I know who are wasting time worrying about stupid crap and calling doctors to switch amoxicillin tabs to caps end up getting themselves behind, get rushed, and actually end up making more mistakes because of it.

I know the point of this thread isn't about errors but it's just an observation I've made and I try to look at the big picture.

 

[Deja]

Agreed. Ironically the pharmacists that I know who are wasting time worrying about stupid crap and calling doctors to switch amoxicillin tabs to caps end up getting themselves behind, get rushed, and actually end up making more mistakes because of it.

I know the point of this thread isn't about errors but it's just an observation I've made and I try to look at the big picture.

I have been wanting to ask you this, completely unrelated.... but are you a pharmacist or still a student? on some threads you talk like you were already a pharmacist but then on some other ones it seemed like you were still a student lol

 

[Sine Cura]

Just waiting for Old Timer to chip in on the predictable peanut gallery responses.

"Wow, this isn't how laws work." Fundamentally laws and regulations prescribe and proscribe specific acts and behaviors and they are subject to enforcement actions by regulatory bodies or even the civil force in certain situations. How else do laws work?

"You aren't going to lose your license." Probably not, though compliance with laws and regulations is one of a pharmacist's basic professional duties. Try using the excuse about "worrying about pointless things" when dealing with a picky inspector or Rx supervisor. I speed on the highway all the time. I'm not going to bitch about "wasting my time" if I get pulled over.

I've seen pharmacists do **** from dispensing meperidine injection for office use to dispensing methadone from a psychiatrist for opioid maintenance, or even writing in a missing date on a CII, either because of ignorance (which isn't an excuse BTW) or they didn't want to risk prescriber or patient anger or disappointment or worry about "pointless things." Transferring an on-hold Rx is more benign, but even then you have idiot pharmacists outright delete the original so the record (including Rx number assignment) is lost.

This thread shows a lot of pique about something as basic as the interpretation of the word "refill" (that is, the prefix "re-" precludes interpretation to include the original fill especially when later in the clause it also refers to the date of the original dispensing being). Compare this to terms like "communicated directly" (boards of pharmacy have allowed facsimile communication) and even the word "written" (pre-printed and even stamped drug names are permissible depending on the state).

I wonder if you guys get butthurt about ICD-10 codes for part B billing and just skip that part, which isn't even a requirement in CMS regulation but is a de facto one because of frequent audits.

At least here is another heads up about Walmart. If you can't bear to do what your company says find another company to work for.

 

[wagrxm2000]

Just waiting for Old Timer to chip in on the predictable peanut gallery responses.

"Wow, this isn't how laws work." Fundamentally laws and regulations prescribe and proscribe specific acts and behaviors and they are subject to enforcement actions by regulatory bodies or even the civil force in certain situations. How else do laws work?

"You aren't going to lose your license." Probably not, though compliance with laws and regulations is one of a pharmacist's basic professional duties. Try using the excuse about "worrying about pointless things" when dealing with a picky inspector or Rx supervisor. I speed on the highway all the time. I'm not going to bitch about "wasting my time" if I get pulled over.

I've seen pharmacists do **** from dispensing meperidine injection for office use to dispensing methadone from a psychiatrist for opioid maintenance, or even writing in a missing date on a CII, either because of ignorance (which isn't an excuse BTW) or they didn't want to risk prescriber or patient anger or disappointment or worry about "pointless things." Transferring an on-hold Rx is more benign, but even then you have idiot pharmacists outright delete the original so the record (including Rx number assignment) is lost.

This thread shows a lot of pique about something as basic as the interpretation of the word "refill" (that is, the prefix "re-" precludes interpretation to include the original fill especially when later in the clause it also refers to the date of the original dispensing being). Compare this to terms like "communicated directly" (boards of pharmacy have allowed facsimile communication) and even the word "written" (pre-printed and even stamped drug names are permissible depending on the state).

I wonder if you guys get butthurt about ICD-10 codes for part B billing and just skip that part, which isn't even a requirement in CMS regulation but is a de facto one because of frequent audits.

At least here is another heads up about Walmart. If you can't bear to do what your company says find another company to work for.

Can't tell if you are agreeing or not, you must help write these laws.

No where am in saying break any law you want. I hope you don't call to change a tablet to a capsule.

 

[wagrxm2000]

you are missing the point

I have transferred out never filled controls before, but I think I got a hard stop in my system that wouldn't let me transfer once awhile back (and a Walgreen pharmacist said it wasn't allowed); so I just want to see if there is an official answer to this

Actually you're missing my point, there's a reason why no one is giving you a concrete answer and its because there isn't one unless someone here specifically gets cited for transferring a new script and can show you where it specifically states you can't, just do it.

Look at the refill thread just made, some people are going to tell you what they think is correct, ever hear of the telephone game?

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

Just waiting for Old Timer to chip in on the predictable peanut gallery responses.

"Wow, this isn't how laws work." Fundamentally laws and regulations prescribe and proscribe specific acts and behaviors and they are subject to enforcement actions by regulatory bodies or even the civil force in certain situations. How else do laws work?

"You aren't going to lose your license." Probably not, though compliance with laws and regulations is one of a pharmacist's basic professional duties. Try using the excuse about "worrying about pointless things" when dealing with a picky inspector or Rx supervisor. I speed on the highway all the time. I'm not going to bitch about "wasting my time" if I get pulled over.

I've seen pharmacists do **** from dispensing meperidine injection for office use to dispensing methadone from a psychiatrist for opioid maintenance, or even writing in a missing date on a CII, either because of ignorance (which isn't an excuse BTW) or they didn't want to risk prescriber or patient anger or disappointment or worry about "pointless things." Transferring an on-hold Rx is more benign, but even then you have idiot pharmacists outright delete the original so the record (including Rx number assignment) is lost.

This thread shows a lot of pique about something as basic as the interpretation of the word "refill" (that is, the prefix "re-" precludes interpretation to include the original fill especially when later in the clause it also refers to the date of the original dispensing being). Compare this to terms like "communicated directly" (boards of pharmacy have allowed facsimile communication) and even the word "written" (pre-printed and even stamped drug names are permissible depending on the state).

I wonder if you guys get butthurt about ICD-10 codes for part B billing and just skip that part, which isn't even a requirement in CMS regulation but is a de facto one because of frequent audits.

At least here is another heads up about Walmart. If you can't bear to do what your company says find another company to work for.

Rules and regulations are a bit different, but anything not explicitly stated by the federal government is at the state's discretion.

Furthermore, anything not explicitly stated isn't necessarily forbidden.

 

[Deja]

Actually you're missing my point, there's a reason why no one is giving you a concrete answer and its because there isn't one unless someone here specifically gets cited for transferring a new script and can show you where it specifically states you can't, just do it.

Look at the refill thread just made, some people are going to tell you what they think is correct, ever hear of the telephone game?

I find that you always talk in a condescending tone on this forum lol are you just like this online or are you like this in real life too

 

[wagrxm2000]

I find that you always talk in a condescending tone on this forum lol are you just like this online or are you like this in real life too

Is this how you respond when you don't like what you hear?

You are seeking advice on an anonymous forum, you can listen to some new pharmacists who are over thinking things or listen to the condescending long term pharmacistsl. Either way don't get so offended because you don't like the way I respond.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

I find that you always talk in a condescending tone on this forum lol are you just like this online or are you like this in real life too

I like to imagine that he angrily fills out Walgreens corrective action forms for our screen names

 

[Charcoales]

CIII-CV xfer it once then dont xfer it again doesn't matter if it was filled or not.

 

[BenJammin]

31 posts and no one answered the question. Barring a state law, federal DEA regulations permits the transfer of a prescription for a controlled substance on a one time basis only if your systems aren't connected. If Walmart has a controlled prescription on hold and CVS is requesting a transfer, Walmart has no reason to deny the transfer on the basis of the Controlled Substances Act.

 

[pezdispenser]

This actually came up in the Notice of Proposed Rulemaking about electronic prescriptions for controlled substances:
https://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/fed_regs/rules/2010/fr0331_b.htm

5. Transfers

In the NPRM, DEA confirmed existing regulations regarding the transfer of prescriptions for Schedule III, IV, and V controlled substances. Specifically, under Sec. 1306.25(a) a pharmacy is allowed to transfer an original unfilled electronic prescription to another pharmacy if the first pharmacy is unable to or chooses not to fill the prescription. Further, a pharmacy is also allowed to transfer an electronic prescription for a Schedule III, IV, or V controlled substance with remaining refills to another pharmacy for filling provided the transfer is communicated between two licensed pharmacists. The pharmacy transferring the prescription would have to void the remaining refills in its records and note in its records to which pharmacy the prescription was transferred. The notations may occur electronically. The pharmacy receiving the transferred prescription would have to note from whom the prescription was received and the number of remaining refills.

Comments. One commenter, a large pharmacy, believed that while the NPRM addressed the transfer of prescription refill information for Schedule III, IV, and V controlled substance prescriptions, it did not address the transfer of original prescriptions that have not been filled.

DEA Response. As DEA explained in the NPRM, the existing requirements for transfers of Schedule III, IV, and V controlled substances prescriptions remain unchanged. DEA currently permits the transfer of original prescription information for a prescription in Schedules III, IV, and V on a one-time basis. This allowance does not change. DEA wishes to emphasize that the only changes made to Sec. 1306.25 as part of the NPRM were to revise the text to include separate requirements for transfers of electronic prescriptions. These revisions were needed because an electronic prescription could be transferred without a telephone call between pharmacists. Consequently, the transferring pharmacist must provide, with the electronic transfer, the information that the recipient transcribes when accepting an oral transfer.

 

[Deja]

Is this how you respond when you don't like what you hear?

You are seeking advice on an anonymous forum, you can listen to some new pharmacists who are over thinking things or listen to the condescending long term pharmacistsl. Either way don't get so offended because you don't like the way I respond.

well you talked in a condescending tone without really answering the question either lol you assumed that I was asking for advice on how to do my job (which you often does on this forum)... so yes, I rather listen to the new pharmacists than you.... and I'm not offended, just find it amazing that you can maintain great working relationships with your coworkers talking like this, unless you are different in real life and just like to vent on the forums lol

look at what pezdispenser wrote, that's how you answer questions

 

[wagrxm2000]

well you talked in a condescending tone without really answering the question either lol you assumed that I was asking for advice on how to do my job (which you often does on this forum)... so yes, I rather listen to the new pharmacists than you.... and I'm not offended, just find it amazing that you can maintain great working relationships with your coworkers talking like this, unless you are different in real life and just like to vent on the forums lol

look at what pezdispenser wrote, that's how you answer questions

Like I said before this is anonymous. If you do indeed read my responses I'm always straight forward because babying people isn't helping them.

Like my original post said, try not to let the little things bother you. No one is going to take your license for doing something unknowingly.

You will stress yourself out if you let things bother you, there's probably a few things I still don't do right. This whole transfer a new control has never came up in 16 years of practicing.

 

[Dr N]

Got an official answer by emailing the DEA, their response;

The pharmacy receiving the prescription, whether oral or via fax, may not be forwarded to another pharmacy for filling. Title 21, C.F.R. 1306.25 allows a pharmacy, once it has filled the original prescription, to forward refills to another pharmacy for filling. The Controlled Substances Act and its implementing regulations make no exception for forwarding original unfilled prescriptions.

 

[Charcoales]

Got an official answer by emailing the DEA, their response;

The pharmacy receiving the prescription, whether oral or via fax, may not be forwarded to another pharmacy for filling. Title 21, C.F.R. 1306.25 allows a pharmacy, once it has filled the original prescription, to forward refills to another pharmacy for filling. The Controlled Substances Act and its implementing regulations make no exception for forwarding original unfilled prescriptions.

Show me a typical pharmacy that isn't doing a load of other illegal things getting smashed because of this please? (Not saying there isn't)

 

[owlegrad]

An oldie but a goodie. So much better than using the search function.

Got an official answer by emailing the DEA, their response;

The pharmacy receiving the prescription, whether oral or via fax, may not be forwarded to another pharmacy for filling. Title 21, C.F.R. 1306.25 allows a pharmacy, once it has filled the original prescription, to forward refills to another pharmacy for filling. The Controlled Substances Act and its implementing regulations make no exception for forwarding original unfilled prescriptions.

That directly contradicts the DEA website:

5. Transfers

In the NPRM, DEA confirmed existing regulations regarding the transfer of prescriptions for Schedule III, IV, and V controlled substances. Specifically, under Sec. 1306.25(a) a pharmacy is allowed to transfer an original unfilled electronic prescription to another pharmacy if the first pharmacy is unable to or chooses not to fill the prescription.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

An oldie but a goodie. So much better than using the search function.



That directly contradicts the DEA website:

Alphabet agencies need to be done away with completely.

This is just one in a long line of instances where DEA, BATFE, IRS, et al. trip up all over themselves because they're legislating on the fly via opinions and interpretations.

 

[BidingMyTime]

An oldie but a goodie. So much better than using the search function.
That directly contradicts the DEA website:

From what I am reading in a literal sense, they are saying it is OK to transfer a never filled e-rx, but not OK to transfer a never filled phoned or faxed RX. This may indeed be their law, but the inconsistency makes absolutely no logical sense.

 

[Corpseman]

We got a memo at work a few months ago saying corporate conferred with their legal team and we are now no longer able to transfer controls that were never filled.

(Kroger)

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

From what I am reading in a literal sense, they are saying it is OK to transfer a never filled e-rx, but not OK to transfer a never filled phoned or faxed RX. This may indeed be their law, but the inconsistency makes absolutely no logical sense.

That's because you're reading an opinion like you would read a section of law. It is a declaration by the DEA, not a section of law.

Stated differently, we're used to reading:
1. X is legal
a. it's only legal at 5 pm
b. If you're eating mashed potatoes.

This means you can only do X at 5pm when you're eating mashed potatoes.


That DEA statement exists in a vacuum, totally independent of the context of that NPRM that it's posted with.

 

[Rouelle]

That's because you're reading an opinion like you would read a section of law. It is a declaration by the DEA, not a section of law.

Stated differently, we're used to reading:
1. X is legal
a. it's only legal at 5 pm
b. If you're eating mashed potatoes.

This means you can only do X at 5pm when you're eating mashed potatoes.


That DEA statement exists in a vacuum, totally independent of the context of that NPRM that it's posted with.

But I prefer fried potatoes. Or fried sweet potatoes...

 

[Rouelle]

My state BOP clarified their stance and issued a statement that in my state first fills of controls are not transferable, only refills. For better or worse, at least I have a definitive answer here.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

My state BOP clarified their stance and issued a statement that in my state first fills of controls are not transferable, only refills. For better or worse, at least I have a definitive answer here.

Hahahah, I wonder what [person] at Wal-Mart thinks of the mess she's made nationwide for pharmacies, patients, and state boards.

Was she just bored?

 

[trailerpark]

We got a memo at work a few months ago saying corporate conferred with their legal team and we are now no longer able to transfer controls that were never filled.

(Kroger)

Walmart won't let us transfer any control on hold either. Other pharmacists have gotten pissy with me as if this is my decision...


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

Walmart won't let us transfer any control on hold either. Other pharmacists have gotten pissy with me as if this is my decision...
Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

Texas State Board is currently in wishy washy mode on which stance they're going to take.

Pharmacists in Texas are breaking the law if they refuse to transfer, so a lot of them are being creative. I.e. Paging M.D.to send us a new script etc

 

[Charcoales]

Walmart won't let us transfer any control on hold either. Other pharmacists have gotten pissy with me as if this is my decision...


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

Seems like it causes more problems. Now if patient wants to txfr Dr office has to make new script and you have to close out the one you have as well.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

Seems like it causes more problems. Now if patient wants to txfr Dr office has to make new script and you have to close out the one you have as well.

Yup.

This is a nationwide mess caused by one person in Wal-Mart's upper management.

It's not gonna be long before someone gets hurt by this, and if it's one of my patients, I'm going to suggest they submit a complaint directly against the specific person at Wal-Mart who caused it.