Tips for Canadian IMG

[neuralgal]

Hi all, I was recently accepted into a UK medical school and will be starting there this September. My ultimate goal is to return to Canada so I would like to know if any of you have any tips on what I can do during medical school to make my future residency application stand out.

I've already looked into the exams and understand the timeline and scores that I'll need on them but I'm more curious as to the extracurriculars I should get involved in (interested in neurosurgery). I realize that this is an extremely competitive residency, even for Canadian medical graduates, and I am perfectly fine with completing this training in the UK as well and coming back to Canada some years down the line. However, I'd still like to know what I can do be a competitive applicant, regardless of which country I'm doing my training in.

Thank you!

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[Orenda369]

Lots of good info in here : https://forums.studentdoctor.net/th...erican-friends-considering-uk-ireland.899646/

 

[mashmetoo]

Hi all, I was recently accepted into a UK medical school and will be starting there this September. My ultimate goal is to return to Canada so I would like to know if any of you have any tips on what I can do during medical school to make my future residency application stand out.

I've already looked into the exams and understand the timeline and scores that I'll need on them but I'm more curious as to the extracurriculars I should get involved in (interested in neurosurgery). I realize that this is an extremely competitive residency, even for Canadian medical graduates, and I am perfectly fine with completing this training in the UK as well and coming back to Canada some years down the line. However, I'd still like to know what I can do be a competitive applicant, regardless of which country I'm doing my training in.

Thank you!

Before you rush off to the UK ... you need to do a lot more research (I'm not sure if this said research you have already done is enough, bear with me).
You need to know about the match rate as an IMG in Canada, IMG match rate in the US.
You need to know about CaRMs, you need to know about the NRMP.
You need to know the exams needed for Canada and the US.. It's a long list of things you need to know before you head off. If you don't have EU/UK residency status/citizenship, you won't be able to get any training done after med school there.
Better yet, check out my thread below, I talk about this quite a bit....
Did you try for US schools yet? Or no luck?
The best way to stand out for residency application in Canada is to not be an IMG unfortunately.

Also keep in mind, you are Canadian (I'm assuming), not a dual-US/Canadian citizen, the things posted on this forum apply mostly to American citizens. It won't be nearly as simple and easy for you if you are Canadian.

 

[neuralgal]

Lots of good info in here : https://forums.studentdoctor.net/th...erican-friends-considering-uk-ireland.899646/

Thanks!

Edit: Oh yeah, I read this depressing thread a while back. I know the challenges, just wanted to get a head start on being prepared for them.

 

[neuralgal]

Before you rush off to the UK ... you need to do a lot more research (I'm not sure if this said research you have already done is enough, bear with me).
You need to know about the match rate as an IMG in Canada, IMG match rate in the US.
You need to know about CaRMs, you need to know about the NRMP.
You need to know the exams needed for Canada and the US.. It's a long list of things you need to know before you head off. If you don't have EU/UK residency status/citizenship, you won't be able to get any training done after med school there.
Better yet, check out my thread below, I talk about this quite a bit....
Did you try for US schools yet? Or no luck?
The best way to stand out for residency application in Canada is to not be an IMG unfortunately.

Also keep in mind, you are Canadian (I'm assuming), not a dual-US/Canadian citizen, the things posted on this forum apply mostly to American citizens. It won't be nearly as simple and easy for you if you are Canadian.

I have already done all my research in this area - I know the spots available, the tests I'll have to write, the match rate, all of it. I have applied for US and Canadian schools multiple times to no luck.

And yes, actually, I will be able to get training there - both foundation years (similar to internship years) and specialty training as I will be a graduate of a UK school.

 

[Medstart108]

I have already done all my research in this area - I know the spots available, the tests I'll have to write, the match rate, all of it. I have applied for US and Canadian schools multiple times to no luck.

And yes, actually, I will be able to get training there - both foundation years (similar to internship years) and specialty training as I will be a graduate of a UK school.

If you are serious about neurosurgery, the one thing I will tell you right now is that you will be working with some of the most hard working people out there. Which means 80-100 work weeks (no they do not follow the 80 hour work week guidelines) for pretty much 6 years of residency + fellowship. You may very well be mid 30s to 40 when you finally graduate, there may be no jobs, you will probably have spent your youth in the hospital working.

The issue with 80-100 hour work weeks is that even though you do spend most of the time in hospital, the time outside the hospital is spent sleeping because you will be so tired from work that you will not be able to do much else.

These are issues that CMGs overcome, but the issue for you is now that you are applying for 2 spots in the country, which makes it even harder. I think the best thing to do is keep an open mind when it comes to residency. I can tell you 100% that you will definitely not be worked nearly as hard in the UK during medical school compared to Canada during your clinical years. This might give you a false sense that you will be able to handle a Canadian residency which isn't the case. We don't have European working time directives and if we did we would flaunt those rules by doubling those hours or more.

About half of neurosurgery is spine, which is not usually nearly as exciting as what most people think neurosurgery is about. Hours post residency tend to be the same or better. If you do peds neurosurgery the hours do get somewhat better.

All in all, if you want to maximize your chances in Canada, spend time in Canada. It is doable to match, all you need is a program to like you. Spend your summers doing research with staff, and always work harder than they ask. You need to impress them with you dedication and your work ethic. Then, you need to do electives in the field in 3rd year and impress, work ethic is key. You must do call without post-call day as much as humanely possible.

 

[RCSI student]

Hi all, I was recently accepted into a UK medical school and will be starting there this September. My ultimate goal is to return to Canada so I would like to know if any of you have any tips on what I can do during medical school to make my future residency application stand out.

I've already looked into the exams and understand the timeline and scores that I'll need on them but I'm more curious as to the extracurriculars I should get involved in (interested in neurosurgery). I realize that this is an extremely competitive residency, even for Canadian medical graduates, and I am perfectly fine with completing this training in the UK as well and coming back to Canada some years down the line. However, I'd still like to know what I can do be a competitive applicant, regardless of which country I'm doing my training in.

Thank you!

1. There are no official neurosurgery resident spots for IMGS in CARMS. It is still theoretically possible as not all residency spots are filled through CARMS but, there is a lot of risk to both you and the program would theoretically give you a contract.
2. There are no statements of need for neurosurgery so you will not be able to get a US visa even if you matched to neurosurgery in the United States.
3. You can finish your neurosurgery training in the UK and then move to Canada afterwards assuming you can get neurosurgery training in the UK. I have no idea how realistic that option is as there will obviously be competition.
4. Academic standing: you will need to be literally at the top of your class (like top 3)
5. Board exams: same idea as academic standing, its not good enough to just do well. You will need to crush these.
6. Surgical experience during medical school: you will need to get in touch with the neurosurgeons in the UK and get in the OR as much as physically possible while still completing the above. You will also need to use all of your elective time working with neurosurgeons in the place you want to work. You will also need to literally know everything about neurosurgery while in the OR with these docs. Surgeons love to pimp and you will need to impress them.
7. Connections: niche specialties like neurosurgery will require you to be contact with other neurosurgeons who can help you achieve your goals. If you don't have these connections you will need to make them.
8 . Extracurriculars: this is less important than the above but, will still help you stand out. Research in the field you want to work in is particularly valuable.

 

[NeuroCritDoc]

1. There are no official neurosurgery resident spots for IMGS in CARMS. It is still theoretically possible as not all residency spots are filled through CARMS but, there is a lot of risk to both you and the program would theoretically give you a contract.
2. There are no statements of need for neurosurgery so you will not be able to get a US visa even if you matched to neurosurgery in the United States.
3. You can finish your neurosurgery training in the UK and then move to Canada afterwards assuming you can get neurosurgery training in the UK. I have no idea how realistic that option is as there will obviously be competition.
4. Academic standing: you will need to be literally at the top of your class (like top 3)
5. Board exams: same idea as academic standing, its not good enough to just do well. You will need to crush these.
6. Surgical experience during medical school: you will need to get in touch with the neurosurgeons in the UK and get in the OR as much as physically possible while still completing the above. You will also need to use all of your elective time working with neurosurgeons in the place you want to work. You will also need to literally know everything about neurosurgery while in the OR with these docs. Surgeons love to pimp and you will need to impress them.
7. Connections: niche specialties like neurosurgery will require you to be contact with other neurosurgeons who can help you achieve your goals. If you don't have these connections you will need to make them.
8 . Extracurriculars: this is less important than the above but, will still help you stand out. Research in the field you want to work in is particularly valuable.

Please verify your facts before posting so you don't mislead anyone. There was indeed 1 official IMG spot at the University of Toronto this year for neurosurgery. You don't necessarily need to be in the top 3. Board scores definitely matter, but getting you the interview is more about electives in neurosurgery, impressing attendings during those electives and obtaining outstanding LORs, and establishing a CV that demonstrates your interest in neurosurgery.

 

[RCSI student]

Please verify your facts before posting so you don't mislead anyone. There was indeed 1 official IMG spot at the University of Toronto this year for neurosurgery. You don't necessarily need to be in the top 3. Board scores definitely matter, but getting you the interview is more about electives in neurosurgery, impressing attendings during those electives and obtaining outstanding LORs, and establishing a CV that demonstrates your interest in neurosurgery.

I thought I had verified my facts via the 2016 CARMS R-1 match report.
http://www.carms.ca/wp-content/uplo...d_to_IMG_Applicants_by_Discipline_English.pdf

Table 14 shows the dedicated spots for IMGs by specialty and under neurosurgery it says o. Where did you see official IMG spot at U of T?

 

[NeuroCritDoc]

I thought I had verified my facts via the 2016 CARMS R-1 match report.
http://www.carms.ca/wp-content/uplo...d_to_IMG_Applicants_by_Discipline_English.pdf

Table 14 shows the dedicated spots for IMGs by specialty and under neurosurgery it says o. Where did you see official IMG spot at U of T?

There was 1 spot at UofT for the 2017 R-1 match.

 

[RCSI student]

There was 1 spot at UofT for the 2017 R-1 match.

Ah, my mistake. Do you know if there's any plans to keep one spot open for IMGs or will it just be dice roll depending on which year you graduate and subsequently apply for residency?

 

[NeuroCritDoc]

Ah, my mistake. Do you know if there's any plans to keep one spot open for IMGs or will it just be dice roll depending on which year you graduate and subsequently apply for residency?

Not sure about that. Probably depends on the funding they negotiate with ON every year.