This or next year? MD/PhD reapplicant waiting on pubs

[hypophora]

If I do apply this year I'll be a 3rd time reapplicant. I always really wanted to do MD/PhD but I applied straight MD the previous two times because I was too intimidated by the competition (bad decision making I know). My prospective school list is now mostly MSTP institutions.

I have a 3.6/3.5 GPA/sGPA from UC Berkeley in a molecular bio major. I did a chemistry minor which dragged down my GPA a lot. I did a post-bac type master's degree after that where I got a 3.9 GPA (equivalent of two full semesters of classes, got one A-). My MCAT is 524 (129/132/131/132) so at least that's good. Demographically I'm an Asian male (LGBT if that matters).

Now the actual question has to do with pubs which are super important for MD/PhD as far as I can tell. I wrote a paper with the PI I did my master's thesis with, but the paper was not accepted by the first journal we sent it to. We are making significant changes and will be resubmitting by mid June. If this paper gets accepted I will be first author.

I'm in a different lab now, and in that lab I contributed to an abstract/poster for the SFN conference later this year. We are working on a publication on the same topic as that poster, hopefully to be submitted by the end of June. I will probably be second or possibly third author on that one. Assuming these papers make it through the review process they would probably get accepted sometime in the Fall if not later. All my research is in neuroscience.

I have everything ready to submit my primary app for MD/PhD programs when the app opens soon, but as a third time reapplicant I am seriously considering whether waiting another year to apply would be a good idea. I thought I would have at least one publication by the time it came to submit AMCAS but it just did not happen.

Any advice? Should I go through with submitting AMCAS this year and just update all the schools if/when my submitted publications get accepted? I really want to do that but I don't know if it's the wisest course of action.

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[amuseddoughnut]

You really have no idea when that paper will be accepted, so I personally would not wait because of one paper. You CAN put it on your ECs list though and cite it as "submitted". People do it on their CVs all the time.

 

[OxToCA]

Posting to keep in my history for reference

 

[jesie]

Are you improving your essays each year? Are you getting interviews?
If you have gone two full cycles with no MD acceptances I'm confused as to what you think will happen by applying MD/PhD? The bar is even higher, frankly.

 

[hypophora]

Hi Jesie,
The first time I applied was in 2013. That year was a bust because I sent in my secondaries late in Fall. I didn't know then that the whole process was rolling and that early submission was key. AMCAS and the schools I sent secondaries to would count this as having applied once, but given that even the best applicant would likely fail to get accepted having submitted secondaries in November, I don't really consider it a cycle I can learn that much from (other than learning to submit everything as early as possible).

The second time I applied was in 2015. I did get two interviews and two waitlists that time. Since then I think I've done a lot more research work and I've worked hard on improving my essays.

I'm applying MD/PhD because I think that's what I really want to do, and because I've been told by several advisors, including the MSTP director at my home institution (where I did my master's), that my overall narrative and application package would actually be more competitive applying MD/PhD compared to MD.

I hope that clears my motivations up! Do you have any insight re: my question about waiting vs. not waiting for publications?

 

[tr]

Definitely do not wait a whole application cycle for pubs, that is a huge waste of time. Put them on your CV as 'manuscript in preparation' or 'submitted' if that's true by then. They are not going to make or break your application.

 

[OxToCA]

By the way, if you decide to wait, there are some interesting job opportunities in banking (e.g. nearby you at Silicon Valley Bank working with biotech companies) and pharmaceutical sales depending on if you have the right grad experience since they usually/always don't hire people without experience. You can do almost as well as a doctor financially if you do the right things without med school debt and time while having a great quality of life if you decide to stay, too; I also went through the UC system and have seen a lot of stories like yours.

 

[cloudstrife2054]

You may be screwed. A lot of schools do not allow third-time applications.

 

[hypophora]

You may be screwed. A lot of schools do not allow third-time applications.

Hi, cloud, could you elaborate? Obviously this statement is extremely distressing for me. Do you mean MD/PhD programs specifically don't allow 3rd time applicants? Would this be relevant since this is the first time I'm applying MD/PhD?

I know personally several people who have gotten into medical school on their third or fourth cycles so I know this is not necessarily true for people applying MD only.

 

[nonamesleft]

You may be screwed. A lot of schools do not allow third-time applications.

Hi, cloud, could you elaborate? Obviously this statement is extremely distressing for me. Do you mean MD/PhD programs specifically don't allow 3rd time applicants? Would this be relevant since this is the first time I'm applying MD/PhD?

I know personally several people who have gotten into medical school on their third or fourth cycles so I know this is not necessarily true for people applying MD only.

as far as I know, third time applications are generally allowed, but a fourth app is generally not considered? You should check the schools that you're interested in. The most difficult thing about successfully getting in on a reapp is showing enough growth between the most recent unsuccessful app and now. This means taking time to ID your weaknesses and address them, rather than rushing into subsequent application cycles.

Also, you are only considered a reapplicant at schools you've previously applied to. (Source: AMCAS® FAQs) For example - you applied to schools A, B, C in 2015-2016 cycle, and then schools A, X, Y, Z in 2016-2017 cycle. This year, you apply to schools A, B, C, X, Y, Z, D, E, F. You'd be a 3rd time applicant at school A, but a second time applicant at school B, C, X, Y, Z. You would be a first time applicant at schools D, E, F.

 

[cloudstrife2054]

UCLA says a third application is "discouraged", which for me translates to "don't bother applying to us a third time", a lot like how if a professor has reserves about writing you a letter, don't bother. Obviously, it is subjective to how I see it. I would check the schools that will allow a third very carefully if I were you.

Admission Procedure - David Geffen School of Medicine - Los Angeles, CA

 

[cloudstrife2054]

If you are okay with it, feel free to send me your personal statement and I will review it. I meet with my school's health professions advisor regularly as well as the career center specialist, so I would like to say I have enough skills to help you with your essays.

I do not know if you can send documents on PM here or not. If not, upload it to a dropbox and allow those with the link to access it and PM me the link.

I would like to say they don't focus much on publications because when you get a publication is not very well in your control...... I emailed an MSTP adcom member and he told me he focuses solely on the research essay. Makes sense because that essay along with the MD/PhD one will show whether or not you have the heart to add another 4 years to your education.

Finally, and you may not want to hear this, maybe you are not as cut out for medicine as you think you are. This is your final chance so you need to prepare for what happens if you do not get in.

Let me ask you about your letter writers. How close of a relationship do you have with your professors? Do you believe if you were in a class of 100+ students, that you would stand out so well that would still know your name? Do you believe you would make an impression that would last their entire career out of the hundreds, if not thousands of students they taught throughout their entire career?