The Official (2017-2018) WAMC for Psychiatry Thread

[sazerac]

I was curious about the Spokane program and we have placed a few people there. Thank you.

Spokane program was awesome. Although it appears to be a new program, it has been teaching PGY3 and PGY4s (similar to Boise) for years.

I would have ranked it higher, but the wife didn't like the Spokane winter weather :-/

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[Unico]

Spokane program was awesome. Although it appears to be a new program, it has been teaching PGY3 and PGY4s (similar to Boise) for years.

I would have ranked it higher, but the wife didn't like the Spokane winter weather :-/

I was just researching the area and the crime rates seem pretty high Did you visit the area? Do you (or does anyone) have more information on the area?

On one end of the spectrum, there is going to be a huge population to work with (major bonus points), but where do residents and faculty live? This is a bit detailed for a WAMC thread, so if anyone has insights please feel free to PM me. TY.

 

[sazerac]

I was just researching the area and the crime rates seem pretty high Did you visit the area? Do you (or does anyone) have more information on the area?

On one end of the spectrum, there is going to be a huge population to work with (major bonus points), but where do residents and faculty live? This is a bit detailed for a WAMC thread, so if anyone has insights please feel free to PM me. TY.

South of town, on The Hill. They will explain all in the interview. Good luck.

 

[postbacpremed87]

When do PDs start caring about the next cycle? Mid Sept?

 

[OldPsychDoc]

When do PDs start caring about the next cycle? Mid Sept?

Once we get the new interns oriented...

 

[postbacpremed87]

Posting under another account to stay anonymous!

Step 1: USMLE Step 1: 250+ / COMLEX Level 1: 700+
Step 2 CK/CS: COMLEX Level 2 + Step 2 CK to be taken in July (aiming to surpass previous boards), Passed PE on 1st attempt
School: southern DO school
Class Rank: within top 2%
Clerkship Grades (A/B/C/F system): all A's
AOA: N/A
GHHS: Yes
Research/Publications: None (weakest part of my application)
Extracurriculars: Mental health peer internship in undergrad. Significant leadership involvement in PsychSIGN over MS1 and MS2.
Quality of LORs if known: Expecting very strong.
Red flags: None!
Where you would like to end up: NE (ideally NY) is my target (spent my entire life in NY until medical school). I would love psychoanalytic training to be incorporated into residency, plus I am highly considering a CAP fellowship. To a large degree, I would be very appreciative to know how far my application can take me, especially being a DO. I am quite sure the level of training will be sufficient regardless of residency, but if I can both make a difference in the field in addition to expanding the DO "reach," I am up for that challenge!

Pretty sure you'll match

 

[Amygdarya]

Posting under another account to stay anonymous!

Step 1: USMLE Step 1: 250+ / COMLEX Level 1: 700+
Step 2 CK/CS: COMLEX Level 2 + Step 2 CK to be taken in July (aiming to surpass previous boards), Passed PE on 1st attempt
School: southern DO school
Class Rank: within top 2%
Clerkship Grades (A/B/C/F system): all A's
AOA: N/A
GHHS: Yes
Research/Publications: None (weakest part of my application)
Extracurriculars: Mental health peer internship in undergrad. Significant leadership involvement in PsychSIGN over MS1 and MS2.
Quality of LORs if known: Expecting very strong.
Red flags: None!
Where you would like to end up: NE (ideally NY) is my target (spent my entire life in NY until medical school). I would love psychoanalytic training to be incorporated into residency, plus I am highly considering a CAP fellowship. To a large degree, I would be very appreciative to know how far my application can take me, especially being a DO. I am quite sure the level of training will be sufficient regardless of residency, but if I can both make a difference in the field in addition to expanding the DO "reach," I am up for that challenge!

Congrats on your strong academic performance! Make sure to apply to a broad range of programs, by which I mean feel free to aim as high as you like but make sure you have a good number of "safeties" because, unfortunately, especially in NYC top programs have a strong bias against DO students. It's unfair for someone like you, but that's how it is. With this in mind, I'm afraid you have no chance at Columbia and Cornell, and I don't know how much of a chance you have at NYU and the main Mt. Sinai program. The good news, there are several other solid psych programs in the city which are a bit less competitive and less snobby like the other two Mt. Sinai programs, Einstein-Montefiore and Zuckerman-Hillside. The latter in particular "used to" be very DO friendly - by which I mean they had a fair share of DOs until the word of the program (solid training + good salary/benefits) got out, and now the program is a bit more competitive and seems to fill with more MDs - but I would expect a strong applicant like you to have a good chance there.
(By the way, I know a Columbia/Cornell CAP fellow who graduated from a DO school and trained at Zucker-Hillside - sounds like a career path/geographic combination you may like )

 

[Prolonged_QT]

[deleted]

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

I doubt any programs require a sub-I to give strong applicants an interview. We realize that you can only do one or two anyway so it remains relatively rare. On the other hand, a sub-I is a way to see if you like a program. Doing one really can't hurt you because if a program doesn't want you after a sub-I, you really don't want to be in that program anyway.

 

[DisorderedDoc417]

I doubt any programs require a sub-I to give strong applicants an interview. We realize that you can only do one or two anyway so it remains relatively rare. On the other hand, a sub-I is a way to see if you like a program. Doing one really can't hurt you because if a program doesn't want you after a sub-I, you really don't want to be in that program anyway.

As an applicant last year I saw no such requirement from any of the 100 or so programs I reviewed before settling on my list for interview season, FWIW. Ditto on what you said about sub-I experiences. I would add that leaving a lasting impression on a psych program is as easy as showing up on time, be respectful/courteous/friendly, remain curious and inquisitive, and get to know all of the important players on the behavioral health team. It is quite hard to burn bridges with that approach IMO -- I would confidently go anywhere with this attitude and be shocked to find it didn't carry you far.

A small note: I think psychiatrists tend to appreciate it when students don't generalize or bring preconceived over-simplifications to what they do to on the wards... i.e. SSRI for depression, or stimulants for ADHD, etc. I've seen students inadvertently do this as psych tends to be a push-over when it comes to the SHELF exam or representation on USMLE Steps. I think this comes mostly from students who have no interest in psych, but a good practice for the conscientious psychiatry-interested med-student nontheless.

 

[Monocles]

Will offer an alternative opinion that sub-I/aways can be extremely helpful for people with middle of the road stats or unknown state schools. I'm from a state school in the Midwest and did an away in a fairly well known institution in Boston and got some letters, which opened up tons of doors for me in the northeast region. Ended up matching into that system at Boston! I don't think I would have been able to otherwise.

 

[Prolonged_QT]

I appreciate all the replies. After some deliberation, I've decided to schedule an away after all. The mixed opinions given suggest to me that it really does not matter whether I do one or not - but I've decided to do it anyway just to not leave any stone unturned. Now of course, there is the matter of most of the early sub-I slots being taken...

 

[box8psych]

Step 1: 215
Step 2 CK/ CS: Scheduled for June/July to get the scores by Sept. 15th (obviously planning on showing significant improvement on CK)
School: Lower tier NE school
Class Rank: Not sure, but definitely lower half preclinical, much higher clinical
Clerkship Grades (specify if H/P/F system):
Honors: Psych, Medicine, Neuro, Family
High Pass: Surgery, Pediatrics, OB/GYN not back yet
Every clinical review I've had has been overwhelmingly positive. All mention excellent communication skills, patient interactions, and clinical ability. My guess is that my MSPE will be one of the stronger parts of my app (I promise I'm not arrogant, just relaying what has been written about me).
AOA: No preclinical, possibly clinical
Research/ Publications:
Retrospective clinical study in surgery - Publication (2nd author) and large conference lecture.
Neuro-oncology bench research - abstract (3rd author).
Patient Case report - PMR publication (first author).
Undergrad cognitive neuroscience imaging - poster at neuroscience conference, successful thesis defense.
Also worked as a research assistant on neuro-imaging studies for one year at a top 5 institution, unfortunately no pub as of yet
Extracurriculars:
Student leadership (4 years), student research forum committee (planned/organized and ran event), participated in my school's LCME accreditation, ran 2 sports clubs (basketball and softball)
2 years working as behavior interventionist prior to med school. I've have been working with children with developmental disabilities in some capacity since I was 15, whether volunteering or as a paid mentor.
Quality of LORs if known:
Not known. Have one from Medicine, planning on getting two from psych and one from pediatrics. I'm sure they'll all be positive, but most likely won't set me apart from the pack.
Red flags: Step 1 score?
Where you would like to end up: Ideally, Southern California (born and raised, also went to undergrad there), but I realize this has become a quite the challenge, especially given my sub-par Step 1 score. Anywhere in the NE (NYC optimal) and other west coast-ish place (Arizona, Washington, Oregon). I'm also open to places in the Midwest and South that are strong programs and/or in more "desirable" cities (Texas, New Orleans, NC schools, etc). I have one away scheduled before interview season at a top program in my desired location.

So the main reason I am posting is because I'm having a lot of trouble narrowing down my list. I have ~70 schools right now that include my almost all the schools in my most desired locations (West Coast, NE), and then schools in any other city I could possibly see myself in. I'm really just unsure about how strong other aspects of my app are and if/how much they can help bolster my chances. Any and all input is welcome. Thanks in advance!

 

[kingfisher89]

Step 1: 233
Step 2 CK/ CS: 245/Pass
School: NE State MD
Class Rank: Unknown
Clerkship Grades (specify if H/P/F system): Mostly H, some HP, including psych unfortunately
AOA: Nope
Research/ Publications: Infectious disease research after first year, otherwise just undergrad thesis on deinstitutionalization
Extracurriculars: Not much, though will hopefully be starting a free foot care clinic for the homeless in my current city. Also some
extra electives working with the homeless population.
Quality of LORs if known: Hopefully good, but unknown. Right now looks like 1 IM, 1 FM, 2-3 Psych
Red flags: Lack of research/ECs, otherwise none
Where you would like to end up: I'm hoping to make it to the SF Bay Area to be able to be with
my SO who is starting grad school there now. I will hopefully be doing some aways out there this fall. I'm not really
picky about which program out there.
Misc: Interested in addiction psych and specifically working with the homeless population

Thank you!

 

[Batman's Underwear]

.

 

[disappointeddreamer]

Step 1: 210~215
Step 2 CK/ CS: Just finished UWSA1 (228...)
School: Upper middle tier, nothing special
Class Rank: Probably bottom 3rd
Clerkship Grades (specify if H/P/F system): Just passing, No negative comments on MSPE
AOA: None
Research/ Publications:Two poster presentations in regional and national conference but no publication. Starting new research in Psych in August
Extracurriculars: Administrative school stuff, some volunteering on and off
Quality of LORs if known: Decent letters.
Red flags:Failed a pre-clinical 3-weeks course, retook the exam.
Where you would like to end up: Anywhere in in East coast

So... I know that average Step1 score for who did NOT match is 214 or so. And, I just scored 228 on UWSA1 which overestimate your score by 15 points or so. Step 2 CK is scheduled next Wednesday, and there is no way that I can pull it up.

1) Am I ever gonna match?
2) Should I postpone my Step 2 to later date? My original plan was to take it early so that it will be included to my application....

1) Yes you will match. I would suggest that you apply to as many places you can afford, and apply broadly and apply for a back up just to be safe. People with much lower scores than you have matched.
2) I would think it would be better for you to have your Step 2 in by app time. Push it back if you think you can do significantly better.

Don't worry, You got this!

 

[PsychApplicant2017]

Step 1: 236
Step 2 CK/ CS: 263. Will take CS in August.
School: Newer/relatively unknown MD school in SE
Class Rank: Top 25%
Clerkship Grades: Honors in everything but IM. 96 on the Psych shelf.
AOA: Yes
Gold Humanism: Yes
Research/ Publications: 3 poster presentations at med school research day (2 psych-related, 1 neuro-related)
Extracurriculars: During med school, lots of isolated volunteer experience in the community and through the school, but not much long-term stuff. Also, not in student govt.
Quality of LORs if known: I'm expecting a strong psych letter from my 3rd year psych attending, and I think my chair letter will be good. I should also get a strong FM letter if my attending actually writes it. Unsure about the rest.
Misc.: Nontraditional student with a J.D. and a few years of work experience before starting med school. Also, did AmeriCorps the year before med school.
Where you would like to end up: Academic program in the SE

Top choices now would be Emory, Vandy, MUSC, Duke, UNC. Planning to apply to approx. 20 programs. Any advice or insight about any of the programs in the SE would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks guys!

 

[Batman's Underwear]

1) Yes you will match. I would suggest that you apply to as many places you can afford, and apply broadly and apply for a back up just to be safe. People with much lower scores than you have matched.
2) I would think it would be better for you to have your Step 2 in by app time. Push it back if you think you can do significantly better.

Don't worry, You got this!

I don't know man... That is pretty low practice step 2 CK score. I want to maximize the number of interview I get

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

1) Am I ever gonna match?
2) Should I postpone my Step 2 to later date? My original plan was to take it early so that it will be included to my application....

1. If you apply wisely, yes.
2. NO NO NO. "Let's see step I, 215 Hmmm, I hope they passed step II, oh look, they haven't taken it. Well that is a problem...."

 

[Batman's Underwear]

1. If you apply wisely, yes.
2. NO NO NO. "Let's see step I, 215 Hmmm, I hope they passed step II, oh look, they haven't taken it. Well that is a problem...."

When you said 'wisely', Should I also look into mid-tier community programs?

 

[OldPsychDoc]

When you said 'wisely', Should I also look into mid-tier community programs?

Yes.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

I think that I should elaborate a little on OPD's answer.

Yes!

 

[Batman's Underwear]

Yes.

I think that I should elaborate a little on OPD's answer.

Yes!

Sorry for keep asking you guys questions. I might use some Ativan now...
What are my reach in terms of tier in regards to academic and/or community programs?
And what are my 'safety' in terms of tier in regards to academic and/or community programs?

 

[Dharma]

Sorry for keep asking you guys questions. I might use some Ativan now...
What are my reach in terms of tier in regards to academic and/or community programs?
And what are my 'safety' in terms of tier in regards to academic and/or community programs?

Batman keeps benzos in the Batbelt? That dude has everything!

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

As a rule of thumb, academic programs are harder to get into vs. community programs, but there are some academic programs that are easy to get into and there are some community programs that are competitive.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Sorry for keep asking you guys questions. I might use some Ativan now...
What are my reach in terms of tier in regards to academic and/or community programs?
And what are my 'safety' in terms of tier in regards to academic and/or community programs?

You honestly won't know until you apply.*
Sorry--I'm not being vague just to be vague, but every program is different. What's probably more important is that you identify the region of the country that is most desirable to you, and apply exhaustively in that area. Research the ones that are most desirable to you and see who offers interviews to you. Be prepared to be surprised on interviews. Some of those "mid range community programs" are pretty great places to train and live. Some of the Name University programs can be a real drag...

*This leads me into my periodic rant about the American obsession with listing rankings...who CARES about pre-season rankings? Play the damn game! Let the playoffs decide the champion. Let the teams draft the players they want... etc. etc.

 

[clausewitz2]

You honestly won't know until you apply.*
Sorry--I'm not being vague just to be vague, but every program is different. What's probably more important is that you identify the region of the country that is most desirable to you, and apply exhaustively in that area. Research the ones that are most desirable to you and see who offers interviews to you. Be prepared to be surprised on interviews. Some of those "mid range community programs" are pretty great places to train and live. Some of the Name University programs can be a real drag...

*This leads me into my periodic rant about the American obsession with listing rankings...who CARES about pre-season rankings? Play the damn game! Let the playoffs decide the champion. Let the teams draft the players they want... etc. etc.

But how will I ever match into a fellowship if go to program #23 in the country instead of #5?

Oh, wait, right, we can't apply to GI

 

[HarryMTieboutMD]

Step 1: 236
Step 2 CK/ CS: 263. Will take CS in August.
School: Newer/relatively unknown MD school in SE
Class Rank: Top 25%
Clerkship Grades: Honors in everything but IM. 96 on the Psych shelf.
AOA: Yes
Gold Humanism: Yes
Research/ Publications: 3 poster presentations at med school research day (2 psych-related, 1 neuro-related)
Extracurriculars: During med school, lots of isolated volunteer experience in the community and through the school, but not much long-term stuff. Also, not in student govt.
Quality of LORs if known: I'm expecting a strong psych letter from my 3rd year psych attending, and I think my chair letter will be good. I should also get a strong FM letter if my attending actually writes it. Unsure about the rest.
Misc.: Nontraditional student with a J.D. and a few years of work experience before starting med school. Also, did AmeriCorps the year before med school.
Where you would like to end up: Academic program in the SE

Top choices now would be Emory, Vandy, MUSC, Duke, UNC. Planning to apply to approx. 20 programs. Any advice or insight about any of the programs in the SE would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks guys!

You should be competitive for any of those programs (Duke might be a reach though). The things that really matter are absence of red flags, your Step 1 score (much better than psych average) and where you went to med school. Coming from a less established med school (even though it's US MD) might make you a little less competitive, but I'd be surprised if you didn't get interviews at all of those programs. Would also recommend Hopkins (midatlantic but not too far outside the southeast) and UT Southwestern.

 

[Batman's Underwear]

1. If you apply wisely, yes.
2. NO NO NO. "Let's see step I, 215 Hmmm, I hope they passed step II, oh look, they haven't taken it. Well that is a problem...."

I did nbme 7 and I failed... I think I just need to solidify some concepts and clear up some confusion. I can schedule one for the late July, and I will probably do much better than 200 at least.

Per NBME, "The target date for reporting Step 2 CK scores for most examinees testing the week of July 3 through mid-August will be Wednesday, September 6, 2017. For examinees whose circumstances require that they receive Step 2 CK scores before September 6, it is recommended that they take the exam no later than June 30"

I think it is reasonable to expect the score to arrive around late September.
Other than studying my ass-off till late July or next week what should I do? Should I delay? I really need some guidance...

Thanks in advance

 

[grapefruit17]

I did nbme 7 and I failed... I think I just need to solidify some concepts and clear up some confusion. I can schedule one for the late July, and I will probably do much better than 200 at least.

Per NBME, "The target date for reporting Step 2 CK scores for most examinees testing the week of July 3 through mid-August will be Wednesday, September 6, 2017. For examinees whose circumstances require that they receive Step 2 CK scores before September 6, it is recommended that they take the exam no later than June 30"

I think it is reasonable to expect the score to arrive around late September.
Other than studying my ass-off till late July or next week what should I do? Should I delay? I really need some guidance...

Thanks in advance

Fwiw, went through last cycle. Very similar app to yours with less expressed interest in psych and I'm a do. Matched a good university program in the southeast

 

[disappointeddreamer]

Fwiw, went through last cycle. Very similar app to yours with less expressed interest in psych and I'm a do. Matched a good university program in the southeast

Oh wow, that is encouraging to hear!! If you don't mind sharing, what region did you end up matching at? And how many programs did you apply to, and get interviews to? And did you have any red flags??

Sorry for all the questions, just curious.

 

[psychlurker]

Long time Lurker and finally made an account to get a feel for peoples thoughts
Step 1: 237 Level 1: 654
Step 2 CK/ CS:
School: Established DO school
Class Rank: 50%
Clerkship Grades (specify if H/P/F system): P's
AOA: SSP (D.O. equivalent- not nearly as exclusive as AOA) Yes
Research/ Publications:
Authorship:
1 scientific publication from undergrad, 3 or 4 non-scientific publications (ex. student perspective article)
Currently working on 2 projects (both mental health related) but doubt that they will be done in time for a publication on application (hopefully a talking points during interviews?)
Presentations:
Bunch of (again) non-research based presentations (ex. presentation to school staff titled "reflections on humanism")
School sponsored research conference- "Co-evolution of psychotropic substances and Eurokotic addictive tendencies" (lit review feel)
Extracurriculars:
Local boy scout troop assistant scoutmaster, Student government official, AMA- Student Delegate, state level medical society county delegate, spearheaded relay-for-life event.
Quality of LORs if known: 1 letter is excellent written by the student government faculty adviser; speaks a lot to positive personality traits and leadership potential.
Two other letters are from DME and the other a PD. I expect the DME's to be very strong and the PD probably just another letter.
Red flags: DO student-I don't get the feel that being a DO isnt quite the scarlet letter it used to be.
Where you would like to end up:
Most competitive programs of interest- UPMC (probably top choice), Duke, Emory, UCSD, UTSW.
While having a big name program on my CV would feel great, and will be a factor in the decision making process, my priorities are.
1. Positive atmosphere
2. Family friendly
3. Clinical interests alternative medicine (ex. hypnosis, acupuncture- note* would not consider myself a hippie type) addiction, and pain, particularly where the two blend into each-other.
4. Psychotherapy exposure

So the big question, there are a number of other programs I would be fine going to. Is it worth throwing my hat in the ring for these reaches or wiser to put my efforts elsewhere?

 

[grapefruit17]

Long time Lurker and finally made an account to get a feel for peoples thoughts
Step 1: 237
Step 2 CK/ CS:
School: Established DO school
Class Rank: 50%
Clerkship Grades (specify if H/P/F system): P's
AOA: SSP (D.O. equivalent- not nearly as exclusive as AOA) Yes
Research/ Publications:
Authorship:
1 scientific publication from undergrad, 3 or 4 non-scientific publications (ex. student perspective article)
Currently working on 2 projects (both mental health related) but doubt that they will be done in time for a publication on application (hopefully a talking points during interviews?)
Presentations:
Bunch of (again) non-research based presentations (ex. presentation to school staff titled "reflections on humanism")
School sponsored research conference- "Co-evolution of psychotropic substances and Eurokotic addictive tendencies" (lit review feel)
Extracurriculars:
Local boy scout troop assistant scoutmaster, Student government official, AMA- Student Delegate, state level medical society county delegate, spearheaded relay-for-life event.
Quality of LORs if known: 1 letter is excellent written by the student government faculty adviser; speaks a lot to positive personality traits and leadership potential.
Two other letters are from DME and the other a PD. I expect the DME's to be very strong and the PD probably just another letter.
Red flags: DO student-I don't get the feel that being a DO isnt quite the scarlet letter it used to be.
Where you would like to end up:
Most competitive programs of interest- UPMC (probably top choice), Duke, Emory, UCSD, UTSW.
While having a big name program on my CV would feel great, and will be a factor in the decision making process, my priorities are.
1. Positive atmosphere
2. Family friendly
3. Clinical interests alternative medicine (ex. hypnosis, acupuncture- note* would not consider myself a hippie type) addiction, and pain, particularly where the two blend into each-other.
4. Psychotherapy exposure

So the big question, there are a number of other programs I would be fine going to. Is it worth throwing my hat in the ring for these reaches or wiser to put my efforts elsewhere?.

It never hurts to apply. Doesn't count against you and you can always cancel interviews later. It's always better to apply to too many than not enough.

Aim for your tops but there's a lot of great psych programs that go unrecognized. I'm a new intern at my university program but so far they've been great, and the program itself has a good rep, although not the elite rep, but in the end how much does that matter? Prob not much

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

I just did a little search. UPMC and Duke don't list their resident's schools. Emory, UCSD, and UTSW each have one DO out of all for years. Like grapefruit17 said, it doesn't harm you to apply, but you should include some less lofty aims.

 

[clausewitz2]

Long time Lurker and finally made an account to get a feel for peoples thoughts
Step 1: 237
Step 2 CK/ CS:
School: Established DO school
Class Rank: 50%
Clerkship Grades (specify if H/P/F system): P's
AOA: SSP (D.O. equivalent- not nearly as exclusive as AOA) Yes
Research/ Publications:
Authorship:
1 scientific publication from undergrad, 3 or 4 non-scientific publications (ex. student perspective article)
Currently working on 2 projects (both mental health related) but doubt that they will be done in time for a publication on application (hopefully a talking points during interviews?)
Presentations:
Bunch of (again) non-research based presentations (ex. presentation to school staff titled "reflections on humanism")
School sponsored research conference- "Co-evolution of psychotropic substances and Eurokotic addictive tendencies" (lit review feel)
Extracurriculars:
Local boy scout troop assistant scoutmaster, Student government official, AMA- Student Delegate, state level medical society county delegate, spearheaded relay-for-life event.
Quality of LORs if known: 1 letter is excellent written by the student government faculty adviser; speaks a lot to positive personality traits and leadership potential.
Two other letters are from DME and the other a PD. I expect the DME's to be very strong and the PD probably just another letter.
Red flags: DO student-I don't get the feel that being a DO isnt quite the scarlet letter it used to be.
Where you would like to end up:
Most competitive programs of interest- UPMC (probably top choice), Duke, Emory, UCSD, UTSW.
While having a big name program on my CV would feel great, and will be a factor in the decision making process, my priorities are.
1. Positive atmosphere
2. Family friendly
3. Clinical interests alternative medicine (ex. hypnosis, acupuncture- note* would not consider myself a hippie type) addiction, and pain, particularly where the two blend into each-other.
4. Psychotherapy exposure

So the big question, there are a number of other programs I would be fine going to. Is it worth throwing my hat in the ring for these reaches or wiser to put my efforts elsewhere?.

So currently WPIC/UPMC has 68 psych residents, counting our triple boarders and FM/psych people. Exactly one of them is a D.O. So...not impossible, but this will be a seriously uphill battle. Not a fair thing or a just thing but very much a thing. If Pittsburgh is where you are trying to end up, don't overlook AGH, where your chances will be much better but still seems to offer perfectly good training.

UNC should probably be on your reach list if you are looking at Duke and Emory. I got a great vibe when I interviewed there.

No reason not to apply to these places, but definitely don't apply only to these places.

 

[psychlurker]

Thanks guys. Great feedback! I'll consider those my reaches and shoot for some other programs as well.

 

[raeka]

Step 1: 250
Step 2 CK/ CS: 260/pass
School: top 50 USMD in the Midwest
Class Rank: 2nd quartile
Clerkship Grades: H in OBGYN, HP in IM, P in the rest including psych- unfortunately at my school you have to be in the top 10% for H and top 25% for HP
Research/ Publications: some non-psych research in med school (no pubs, 1 poster) and undergrad (1 pub)
Extracurriculars: a few leadership roles in M1/2, volunteering in a psych-related area, scholarship recipient
Quality of LORs if known: hopefully good...2 secured so far from attendings who gave me great feedback
Red flags: none
Where you would like to end up:
Potentially interested in child and adolescent, C/L, addiction. Not too picky about geographic area but would like to live somewhere with good job opportunities for my wife, that is relatively affordable (not a SF or NYC). Other than that, ultimately I would like to get into a program with the best clinical training that I can, with a moderately flexible curriculum that won't work me to death.
What are my chances at places like UPMC, Northwestern, Brown, UNC, Yale or University of Michigan? I think my Step scores are strong but the rest of my application (only one course honored 3rd year and not in psych, no psych research) will be pretty average so I'm not sure how competitive I am at top programs. Is there anything I can do to in the next few months to demonstrate my commitment to Psych and strengthen my application? I'm taking a few psych electives early on in the year. Any suggestions on other programs to look into would be welcome!

 

[Evidence Based]

Step 1: 239
Step 2 CK/ CS: 267/ taking in early fall
School: Non-ivy Northeast MD
Class Rank: unknown
Clerkship Grades: Honors in Psych, Neuro, Surgery. HP in Peds, Family, IM, OB/Gyn
Research/ Publications: Several non-psych related pubs before med school. A PTSD paper in submission based on work I did in undergrad. Also have a few semi-academic online pieces for places like the AAMC, Health Affairs, etc on health policy.
Extracurriculars: lots of ongoing leadership roles, particularly the advocacy/activism realm. Very involved in state/local addiction policy through this. Also involved in advocacy around healthcare access, housing issues, and social determinants of health, and am on the national board for a prominent national healthcare access advocacy organization. Helping lead Psych SIG this coming year.
Quality of LORs if known: 1 from 3rd year psych clerkship, should be strong. One from a "big name" in the field that I've worked pretty close with, should also be strong (and will push residents I've worked more with to provide input). Two more hopefully upcoming from another C/L rotation and from a medicine sub-I
Red flags: none
Where you would like to end up: Northeast, as that's where my family is from, but I could be interested in some places in the midwest (Chicago, Twin Cities, Wisconsin) and PNW/NorCal. Particularly interested in programs with a strong community and underserved bent, as well as good exposure to dual diagnosis work and access to the health policy world (want to be able to continue advocacy work in residency). Top of my list are programs like Cambridge, BMC, Yale, Brown, Columbia, Penn. That list is obviously a little top heavy (and NE heavy) at the moment, so always open to more suggestions!

NB: I've been interested in psychiatry since undergrad, and most of my early clinical exposure was with adults with PTSD and severe mental illness. I intentionally tried to broaden my experience in med school to make sure I wanted to do psych and not something else, and so wasn't crazy involved in psych specific activities until recently. However, pretty sure I have a compelling story to tell as to "why psych" that weaves in earlier experiences with a lot of the work I've done around homelessness and addiction, which has helped to give shape to my career goals.

Thanks in advance!

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

Where you would like to end up: I could be interested in some places PNW/NorCal. Particularly interested in programs with a strong community and underserved bent, as well as good exposure to dual diagnosis work and access to the health policy world. Top of my list are programs like Cambridge, BMC, Yale, Brown, Columbia, Penn. That list is obviously a little top heavy (and NE heavy) at the moment, so always open to more suggestions!
Thanks in advance!

U of Wash., UCSF.

 

[LeylaA]

Step 1: 238
Step 2 CK/ CS: not taken either
School: mid-tier northeast
Class Rank: top quartile
Clerkship Grades (specify if H/P/F system): honors in everything except neurology
AOA: was told i will very likely get it during the second round of elections later this summer
Research/ Publications: published 3 times, 1 is psych related. lots of previous research work at a huge nearby clinical center and many posters etc from that
Extracurriculars: GHHS, good amount of volunteer work, president of multiple interest groups during pre-clinical years
Quality of LORs if known: 1 from medicine which will be very strong, 2 from psych (1 i know will be very strong), 1 from big high-up president of the university i did research with
Red flags: none
Where you would like to end up: yale, massgen, columbia, upitt, penn
Thank you!

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Step 1: 238
Step 2 CK/ CS: not taken either
School: mid-tier northeast
Class Rank: top quartile
Clerkship Grades (specify if H/P/F system): honors in everything except neurology
AOA: was told i will very likely get it during the second round of elections later this summer
Research/ Publications: published 3 times, 1 is psych related. lots of previous research work at a huge nearby clinical center and many posters etc from that
Extracurriculars: GHHS, good amount of volunteer work, president of multiple interest groups during pre-clinical years
Quality of LORs if known: 1 from medicine which will be very strong, 2 from psych (1 i know will be very strong), 1 from big high-up president of the university i did research with
Red flags: none
Where you would like to end up: yale, massgen, columbia, upitt, penn
Thank you!

Nothing. to. worry. about.

 

[hallowmann]

Yeah still wondering everyone's opinion on Step 2 CK as a DO.

If you think you can at least stay the same or improve a bit on Step 2 (most people can with the same preparation), then I'd just take it. I think you'll do fine on it, and is really unlikely that you'll drop much at all.

To be clear, I'm talking about CK, there's almost no point in taking CS as a DO.

How does one show interest in psychiatry? I have one mental health ec and I'll be taking 3 psych electives but they're after transcripts get sent out (literally one block after). Should I be telling all the places I apply that I'm taking those electives even though it won't be on the transcript?

Does anyone have experience or stats about people typically accepted in the PA/NJ/NY area especially for average to below average students?

Any extracurriculars related to mental health? Any research in the field?

PA, NY, and NJ have a huge range of programs in them. If you apply broadly enough, you shouldn't have any issue matching in one with no big redflags.

Since Psych interviews roll out before transcripts are updated, are 4th year Psych electives more for a conversation piece during the interview? It seems that most applicants wouldn't an elective on their transcript yet.

Pretty much.

Long time Lurker and finally made an account to get a feel for peoples thoughts
Step 1: 237 Level 1: 654
Step 2 CK/ CS:
School: Established DO school
Class Rank: 50%
Clerkship Grades (specify if H/P/F system): P's
AOA: SSP (D.O. equivalent- not nearly as exclusive as AOA) Yes
Research/ Publications:
Authorship:
1 scientific publication from undergrad, 3 or 4 non-scientific publications (ex. student perspective article)
Currently working on 2 projects (both mental health related) but doubt that they will be done in time for a publication on application (hopefully a talking points during interviews?)
Presentations:
Bunch of (again) non-research based presentations (ex. presentation to school staff titled "reflections on humanism")
School sponsored research conference- "Co-evolution of psychotropic substances and Eurokotic addictive tendencies" (lit review feel)
Extracurriculars:
Local boy scout troop assistant scoutmaster, Student government official, AMA- Student Delegate, state level medical society county delegate, spearheaded relay-for-life event.
Quality of LORs if known: 1 letter is excellent written by the student government faculty adviser; speaks a lot to positive personality traits and leadership potential.
Two other letters are from DME and the other a PD. I expect the DME's to be very strong and the PD probably just another letter.
Red flags: DO student-I don't get the feel that being a DO isnt quite the scarlet letter it used to be.
Where you would like to end up:
Most competitive programs of interest- UPMC (probably top choice), Duke, Emory, UCSD, UTSW.
While having a big name program on my CV would feel great, and will be a factor in the decision making process, my priorities are.
1. Positive atmosphere
2. Family friendly
3. Clinical interests alternative medicine (ex. hypnosis, acupuncture- note* would not consider myself a hippie type) addiction, and pain, particularly where the two blend into each-other.
4. Psychotherapy exposure

So the big question, there are a number of other programs I would be fine going to. Is it worth throwing my hat in the ring for these reaches or wiser to put my efforts elsewhere?.

Apply to those reaches. UPMC definitely interviews DOs for psych. Unfortunately, nor many have matched in a while. Pittsburgh is family friendly, and the PD is an interesting guy that seems to take family into account. That said, didn't get the family feel with many of the residents, but maybe it was just me. Seems like you can learn a ton there with big people in the field.

UCSD was a bit stranger feeling. PD had a very specific idea of what's a good resident/program was, but they also have a wide range of faculty with varying interests. They interview some DOs, but they have huge interview groups and seemed to interview far more IMGs than DOs.

Those are the only two I'm closely familiar with.

So currently WPIC/UPMC has 68 psych residents, counting our triple boarders and FM/psych people. Exactly one of them is a D.O. So...not impossible, but this will be a seriously uphill battle. Not a fair thing or a just thing but very much a thing. If Pittsburgh is where you are trying to end up, don't overlook AGH, where your chances will be much better but still seems to offer perfectly good training..

UNC should probably be on your reach list if you are looking at Duke and Emory. I got a great vibe when I interviewed there.

No reason not to apply to these places, but definitely don't apply only to these places.

I have a lot of friends at AGH and definitely recommend it if the goal is to be in Pittsburgh, but honestly I think that applicant can do better.

 

[medhead1990]

Apply to those reaches. UPMC definitely interviews DOs for psych. Unfortunately, nor many have matched in a while. Pittsburgh is family friendly, and the PD is an interesting guy that seems to take family into account. That said, didn't get the family feel with many of the residents, but maybe it was just me. Seems like you can learn a ton there with big people in the field.

UCSD was a bit stranger feeling. PD had a very specific idea of what's a good resident/program was, but they also have a wide range of faculty with varying interests. They interview some DOs, but they have huge interview groups and seemed to interview far more IMGs than DOs.

Those are the only two I'm closely familiar with.

Great feedback thank you! Overall they both seem to have a pretty mix of residents and faculty hopefully being a DO can stand out as part of that mix in their minds.

Any insight on iowa or uc-davis per chance from the masses?

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Great feedback thank you! Overall they both seem to have a pretty mix of residents and faculty hopefully being a DO can stand out as part of that mix in their minds.

Any insight on iowa or uc-davis per chance from the masses?

Iowa tends to view DOs on par with most USMGs. Helps that they have a strong DO school in-state, and they realize that their location puts them at a competitive disadvantage to some extent.

 

[PabloPabloPablo]

deleted

 

[medhead1990]

Iowa tends to view DOs on par with most USMGs. Helps that they have a strong DO school in-state, and they realize that their location puts them at a competitive disadvantage to some extent.

Thanks for the input OPD! =)
In my lurking I've seen over an over Iowa is considered pretty biological. While its not a deal breaker I would like to be able to get a decent foundation in psychotherapy. If I was a little aggressive would that be possible even in a location with such a strong biological reputation? My thought is I should be able to find at least one faculty who have an interest in the subject who I could tag along with.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Thanks for the input OPD! =)
In my lurking I've seen over an over Iowa is considered pretty biological. While its not a deal breaker I would like to be able to get a decent foundation in psychotherapy. If I was a little aggressive would that be possible even in a location with such a strong biological reputation? My thought is I should be able to find at least one faculty who have an interest in the subject who I could tag along with.

The reputation is overstated--it's no less psychological than most other mainstream programs.

 

[DisorderedDoc417]

The reputation is overstated--it's no less psychological than most other mainstream programs.

Agree with this. They also implemented some changes to their curriculum to allow those inclined to do more psychotherapy the opportunity to do so. Ask about this on the interview trail, but expect a fairly standard answer in the Midwest.

 

[surfguy84]

I've just started third year, so please forgive my stats not being in the standard format others are using as i dont have most of them yet.

Just curious how my scores may impact things.

662 comlex/241 step 1
Non-trad w very unique prior career/story
Top third of class
1 research project in diabetes and likely publication

Ideally I'd like to stay in California or west coast. Can anyone comment on odds of that? Any programs too much of a reach?

 

[surfguy84]

ucla, ucsf, and stanford would be out of your reach. as for other programs in california, this would depend on where you go to school (better if its in CA or they have taken students from your school before), showing a commitment to psychiatry, having strong letters of recommendation, ideally from faculty in a residency program, doing early away rotation at schools with a residency program in CA and getting strong LoRs from that, doing well on step 2 (including having your passing step 2 PE/CS score in early/on time) etc. however there are lots of programs in california so it shouldn't be difficult to find somewhere.

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I am at one of the CA do schools, so hopefully that'll help.

This is a dumb question...but how does one show interest in the field at this point? Im doing 3rd year rotations so I dont have loads of time to volunteer anywhere. Aside from research, any ideas of what one could do to show interest?