The Official (2017-2018) WAMC for Psychiatry Thread

[postbacpremed87]

A shout out for the 2016-2017 class. I hope you are still celebrating because you have achieved so much. I decided to create this thread because there is a lot of anxiety out there and it is a fact: The 2017-2018 class is now walking from on deck to the plate as the class before us hit a grand slam. It is time for VSAS, thinking about rotations, personal statements, and strategy in general. Psychiatry is not a cake walk anymore. This is good news. Our class is still in the stage of the game where we can change something for the better. This is the question asked every year. What are my chances? If they aren't good, then perhaps starting this thread now is a good idea so some improvement can be made. Take it away....

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[splik]

wamc and how can i improve my chances are very different questions which should have different threads. I do not think it is terribly helpful or appropriate to opine one the former when people have not got all their clerkship grades or taken their exams. The latter is always a valid question but should be a its own thread.

 

[OrangeOrange]

If anyone prefers to post anonymously, you can message me and I can post on your behalf. (Though anonymity may not be as big a concern here as it is in the interview reviews thread.)
Just wanted to encourage any reluctant posters!

Edited to add a reminder: the more specific you are, the more this forum can help you. If it makes you nervous to say your board scores, or that you are from Missouri and hope to match there, then by all means message me.

 

[OrangeOrange]

Step1 237
unranked US MD
strong demonstrated interest since before medical school (including research)
no "wow" EC's
should have a publication in the field by application time
Grades are unfortunately mediocre thus far, but no red flags and comments along the lines of "works hard" and "reads up on patients."
One superb psych letter, not sure of others.

Loose geographic restrictions that I won't list, but prefer urban locales with at least two child psych fellowships within a 90 minute drive. Will consider all program sizes. Preferences include strong teaching and supervision, time to read (so not a work-horse program), not VA-heavy, non-onerous research requirements (or none at all). Which programs should make my list? Any reasonable reaches with a strong national reputation?

 

[OrangeOrange]

Step 1: 210
Step 2 CK/ CS: Neither done yet, taking 6 weeks to kill CK
School: State MD school in the Northeast
Class Rank: Prob lowest quartile
Grades in Clerkship: HP Psych, HP Medicine and FM, HP OBGYN, Pass everything else
Will have at least one amazing LOR from core rotation in Psych
AOA: lol no
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: a pub and some posters from neuropsych lab work (like 6th author), hopefully will have a 2nd or 3rd author bio psych paper soon
SUPER involved in Psychiatry from the start of med school and even college. Clubs, APA involvement, etc etc without getting too specific. Going to make it clear in my PS I came to med school to be a psychiatrist, and I think it's clear even just by looking at my CV.
Red Flags: (step failures, etc): standardized patient failure, retook Peds shelf

Open to suggestions about how to improve, though I think killing CK will be my best bet at this point. Also looking for advice whether an away (in my own city) should be done at a target or a reach program? This wouldn't be to show interest in moving across the country.
Also might be couples matching, curious how this plays into our scenario as well if anyone has any advice or anecdotes on this. SO is applying to a more competitive specialty with the scores and grades to boot.

Thanks everyone!

 

[OldPsychDoc]

This might help...

 

[clausewitz2]

Step1 237
unranked US MD
strong demonstrated interest since before medical school (including research)
no "wow" EC's
should have a publication in the field by application time
Grades are unfortunately mediocre thus far, but no red flags and comments along the lines of "works hard" and "reads up on patients."
One superb psych letter, not sure of others.

Loose geographic restrictions that I won't list, but prefer urban locales with at least two child psych fellowships within a 90 minute drive. Will consider all program sizes. Preferences include strong teaching and supervision, time to read (so not a work-horse program), not VA-heavy, non-onerous research requirements (or none at all). Which programs should make my list? Any reasonable reaches with a strong national reputation?

Being coy about geographical restrictions makes it very difficult to give useful suggestions that aren't a waste of everyone's time. It would be nice if this thread were really about soliciting advice rather than stat-bragging.

 

[zzzdrugs]

Being coy about geographical restrictions makes it very difficult to give useful suggestions that aren't a waste of everyone's time. It would be nice if this thread were really about soliciting advice rather than stat-bragging.

Sorry, I was just nervous about anonymity. I am considering the east coast, SE, west coast, and Cleveland. I don't have a geographic area where I want to end up.

 

[OrangeOrange]

Here's a template for sufficiently detailed posts:

Step 1:
Step 2 CK/ CS:
School:
Class Rank:
Clerkship Grades (specify if H/P/F system):
AOA:
Research/ Publications:
Extracurriculars:
Quality of LORs if known:
Red flags:
Where you would like to end up:

 

[molecularmimicry]

.

 

[OrangeOrange]

Step 1: 253
Step 2 CK/ CS: Have not taken; will not take before ERAS
School: Mid tier USMD school in Midwest
Class Rank: Top quartile
Clerkship Grades (specify if H/P/F system): H/HP/P/F system; H in psychiatry, obgyn, pediatrics; HP in surgery; family medicine and IM grades pending
AOA: Not sure; possible but not super likely
Research/ Publications: Received fellowship to do neuroimaging research on mood disorders and emotional regulation summer of M1 which resulted in poster/presentation but no pub; began doing research in another lab this Jan on interaction between DM2 and depression and cognition but unsure if will result in pub; will be actively seeking case report opportunities as well
Extracurriculars: VP of APAMSA during M2 and attended several health fairs; general member of psych interest group all 3 years - will be running for board position this year
Quality of LORs if known: One very strong letter from the psychiatry clerkship director who is well known in the psych world for education (not research); 2 others I haven't secured yet
Red flags: None
Where you would like to end up: Academic west coast program (one of the UC's, UWash) most preferably with good work-life balance that doesn't work you to the bone; interested in child psych and developmental disorders

Thanks!!

It sounds like you'll get all the interview invites you could want and more; the question of how you'll be ranked will depend on your ties to an area you don't live in and your interviewing skills.

 

[molecularmimicry]

It sounds like you'll get all the interview invites you could want and more; the question of how you'll be ranked will depend on your ties to an area you don't live in and your interviewing skills.

Thanks for your response! I'm worried because I don't have any pubs so Idk if I'd be passed up at some programs because of that. I also don't have any ties to the West coast but isn't a genuine interest in moving out there and lack of ties to the Midwest enough? My family isn't even from where I am living currently and I'd like a change of pace.

 

[OrangeOrange]

Hoping for somewhere in the NE preferably somewhere in the PA/NY/NJ area. Not interested in prestige but hopefully not a program outside 75.

This is a very reasonable goal but you should still apply to plenty of programs outside 75 as backups. Thankfully your geographic region of interest is very program-dense.
How strong are your letters? What's your plan for killing Step 2? These will make a big difference for you.

 

[OrangeOrange]

I also don't have any ties to the West coast but isn't a genuine interest in moving out there and lack of ties to the Midwest enough?

Not really. A lot of people have a genuine interest in moving to California. An away rotation would have helped you a lot.

 

[OrangeOrange]

Step 1: 250
Step 2 CK/ CS: not taken
School: mid-tier
Class Rank: 2nd or 3rd quartile
Clerkship Grades (specify if H/P/F system): H/P/F, all pass
AOA: no
Research/ Publications: 5 pubs/posters; a couple more that won't be published in time for ERAS. Some relevant to psych
Extracurriculars: standard - interest groups and volunteering, 1 relevant to psych
Quality of LORs if known: not sure...probably fine
Red flags: none so far
Where you would like to end up: UPMC. Michigan. Emory. Miami.
Any academic center that is a good fit.

Should I bother applying to MGH, UCSF, UCLA, etc?

Thanks everyone!!

 

[OrangeOrange]

Sorry, I was just nervous about anonymity. I am considering the east coast, SE, west coast, and Cleveland. I don't have a geographic area where I want to end up.

Those geographic restrictions aren't very restrictive at all! Sounds like you should just cast a wide net and include whichever reaches you like on the list. Make sure when you are accepting interview invites that the list isn't too top heavy.

 

[OrangeOrange]

Step 1: 500 COMLEX
Step 2 CK/ CS: not taken
School: DO school
Class Rank: unknown
Clerkship Grades: H psych, HP, Pass in others
Research/ Publications: psych research experience, no pubs
Extracurriculars: Lots of volunteering
Quality of LORs if known: terrific
Red flags: none
Where you would like to end up: Midwest, NE, no real preference

 

[MaximusMDPhD]

Step 1: High 230s
Step 2 CK/ CS: Not taken yet but I think it will be lower than step 1 (Forgot a lot in grad school, not the medical student I used to be)
School: Top 5
Class Rank: Bottom 1/3
Clerkship Grades (specify if H/P/F system): No honors
AOA: No
Research/ Publications: 1 (PhD thesis), a few posters
Extracurriculars: PhD, Psych interest group, minority mentorship (I am not minority myself)
Quality of LORs if known: Glowing psych subI letter, will likely get 1 letter from a psych continuity clinic, not sure where I'll get the third letter yet. Do NOT want to do medicine subI.
Red flags: No honors on rotations including psych, IM may or may not be on MSPE at the time I apply, not applying to a research residency track (Was PI-or-bust until the end of grad school in a field not at all related to psych, pivoting now and still interested in doing research but likely not in basic science lab and can't yet articulate a focus).
Where you would like to end up: CA > WA > TX/NC/RI/CT > MI/WI. I'm more psychotherapy focused than biologic focused, would love the opportunity to work some computational research into my residency project.

 

[Amygdarya]

Step 1: High 230s
Step 2 CK/ CS: Not taken yet but I think it will be lower than step 1 (Forgot a lot in grad school, not the medical student I used to be)
School: Top 5
Class Rank: Bottom 1/3
Clerkship Grades (specify if H/P/F system): No honors
AOA: No
Research/ Publications: 1 (PhD thesis), a few posters
Extracurriculars: PhD, Psych interest group, minority mentorship (I am not minority myself)
Quality of LORs if known: Glowing psych subI letter, will likely get 1 letter from a psych continuity clinic, not sure where I'll get the third letter yet. Do NOT want to do medicine subI.
Red flags: No honors on rotations including psych, IM may or may not be on MSPE at the time I apply, not applying to a research residency track (Was PI-or-bust until the end of grad school in a field not at all related to psych, pivoting now and still interested in doing research but likely not in basic science lab and can't yet articulate a focus).
Where you would like to end up: CA > WA > TX/NC/RI/CT > MI/WI. I'm more psychotherapy focused than biologic focused, would love the opportunity to work some computational research into my residency project.

Haha, it sounds like the MD/PhD years have thoroughly soured you on both medicine and (basic science) research. Coming from a top 5 school with PhD and a glowing psych sub-I letter you'll be fine, as long as you apply/interview/rank a decent number of programs of different competitiveness. Just make sure to articulate really well why you're going into psych, otherwise it may appear like you're choosing a lesser evil.

 

[TisNowd]

Throwaway account for anonymity:

Step 1: ~450 COMLEX (did not take USMLE)
Step 2 CK/ CS: CK and CS scheduled for July (planning on taking COMLEX versions, not USMLE)
School: Midwest DO school (well-established and well-known as a strong DO school)
Class Rank: Bottom quartile pre-clinical, currently third quartile for clinical
Clerkship Grades (specify if H/P/F system): All P's (H/P/F system, no HP, shelf is 100% of grade)
AOA: N/A
Research/ Publications: None currently, will be doing a psych research rotation this summer/fall.
Extracurriculars: Leadership position in a non-psych student organization during pre-clinical, regularly tutored ESL kids in underserved area of my city (~once a week during first 1.5 years). No psych related EC's, but both 3rd year electives have been psych and I've attended a couple psych conferences this year (I was 100% sure I didn't want to do psych until my 3rd year rotation and fell in love with it).
Quality of LORs if known: One strong (non-psych), another which makes me sound like God's gift to medicine from a very well-known psychiatrist in my city. Awaiting another which I expect to also be very strong (attending has invited me to a conference, introduced me to a few PD's, and is going to help introduce me to some research PI's at a major academic program in my city). Additionally, all my attending comments from rotations are strong (don't count towards clinical grades, but is mentioned in MSPE).
Red flags: Failed one class at beginning of 2nd year, successfully remediated.
Where you would like to end up: Would prefer to end up in the midwest, either in my current city or another major midwest city, but am personally open to most places that aren't on the coasts (SO/family is the rate-limiting factor for locations). Strongly prefer NOT to be in a rural program (within 30-45 minutes of a metro area). No preference for academic vs. community.

I realize I've got a bit of an uphill battle anywhere given my less than desirable pre-clinical resume and lackluster clinical grades, but I've been working to make up for that third year and am trying to demonstrate I'm a hard-worker and trying to immerse myself in psych. Any advice on what I can do to continue strengthening my app and on how to apply is greatly appreciated.

 

[sazerac]

Step 1: High 230s
Step 2 CK/ CS: Not taken yet but I think it will be lower than step 1 (Forgot a lot in grad school, not the medical student I used to be)
School: Top 5
Class Rank: Bottom 1/3
Clerkship Grades (specify if H/P/F system): No honors
AOA: No
Research/ Publications: 1 (PhD thesis), a few posters
Extracurriculars: PhD, Psych interest group, minority mentorship (I am not minority myself)
Quality of LORs if known: Glowing psych subI letter, will likely get 1 letter from a psych continuity clinic, not sure where I'll get the third letter yet. Do NOT want to do medicine subI.
Red flags: No honors on rotations including psych, IM may or may not be on MSPE at the time I apply, not applying to a research residency track (Was PI-or-bust until the end of grad school in a field not at all related to psych, pivoting now and still interested in doing research but likely not in basic science lab and can't yet articulate a focus).
Where you would like to end up: CA > WA > TX/NC/RI/CT > MI/WI. I'm more psychotherapy focused than biologic focused, would love the opportunity to work some computational research into my residency project.

Well you can call me MinimusMD then - you've met or exceeded me in every category. You are gonna do great, and I hope you get into Stanford (you will new a 4th letter for that) or UCSF. Check out UNC as well as Duke. You have a couple New England states in there... since Brown is on your list also be sure to check out Dartmouth- they don't talk much about the Center For Technology and Behavioral Health on their website but the PD will bring it up during your interview.

 

[FlowRate]

Step 1: 250
Step 2 CK/ CS: not taken
School: mid-tier
Class Rank: 2nd or 3rd quartile
Clerkship Grades (specify if H/P/F system): H/P/F, all pass
AOA: no
Research/ Publications: 5 pubs/posters; a couple more that won't be published in time for ERAS. Some relevant to psych
Extracurriculars: standard - interest groups and volunteering, 1 relevant to psych
Quality of LORs if known: not sure...probably fine
Red flags: none so far
Where you would like to end up: UPMC. Michigan. Emory. Miami.
Any academic center that is a good fit.

Should I bother applying to MGH, UCSF, UCLA, etc?

Thanks everyone!!

I didn't know anyone but Stanford did H/P/F. How all pass affects you depends on the split between H and P at your institution.

Your step 1 score will make up for a lot. Having multiple publications will help at the big name places. (I don't know how faculty see posters, but I don't personally care about posters). There's a trend toward programs expecting CK these days. Which is a little rough for people with a high step 1, because you don't want your score to go down.

No reason not to apply to top programs. I'd recommend emailing Emory if you don't get an invite within the first round or two of invites, especially if you have a specific reason to be there. I get the sense that Emory focuses on regional applicants.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Throwaway account for anonymity:

Step 1: ~450 COMLEX (did not take USMLE)
Step 2 CK/ CS: CK and CS scheduled for July (planning on taking COMLEX versions, not USMLE)
School: Midwest DO school (well-established and well-known as a strong DO school)
Class Rank: Bottom quartile pre-clinical, currently third quartile for clinical
Clerkship Grades (specify if H/P/F system): All P's (H/P/F system, no HP, shelf is 100% of grade)
AOA: N/A
Research/ Publications: None currently, will be doing a psych research rotation this summer/fall.
Extracurriculars: Leadership position in a non-psych student organization during pre-clinical, regularly tutored ESL kids in underserved area of my city (~once a week during first 1.5 years). No psych related EC's, but both 3rd year electives have been psych and I've attended a couple psych conferences this year (I was 100% sure I didn't want to do psych until my 3rd year rotation and fell in love with it).
Quality of LORs if known: One strong (non-psych), another which makes me sound like God's gift to medicine from a very well-known psychiatrist in my city. Awaiting another which I expect to also be very strong (attending has invited me to a conference, introduced me to a few PD's, and is going to help introduce me to some research PI's at a major academic program in my city). Additionally, all my attending comments from rotations are strong (don't count towards clinical grades, but is mentioned in MSPE).
Red flags: Failed one class at beginning of 2nd year, successfully remediated.
Where you would like to end up: Would prefer to end up in the midwest, either in my current city or another major midwest city, but am personally open to most places that aren't on the coasts (SO/family is the rate-limiting factor for locations). Strongly prefer NOT to be in a rural program (within 30-45 minutes of a metro area). No preference for academic vs. community.

I realize I've got a bit of an uphill battle anywhere given my less than desirable pre-clinical resume and lackluster clinical grades, but I've been working to make up for that third year and am trying to demonstrate I'm a hard-worker and trying to immerse myself in psych. Any advice on what I can do to continue strengthening my app and on how to apply is greatly appreciated.

In previous years you would have been a shoo-in at most mid-range programs in the Midwest. This year there were at least 2 similar-ish profiles among the applicants we interviewed--and they didn't match. The electives, LORs and conferences will help you--but don't take anything for granted. Seek to score 500 or better on your Step 2 and pass your CS on the first try. Smile and shine on interviews.

 

[FlowRate]

stanford doesn't have an honors system (no grades at all) because of course any stanford student is an honors student by definition lol
sorta like how harvard has high honors because an average HMS student is considered an honors student!

Interesting, it was H/P/F when I last looked into it, but that was three or four years ago. I see they now have PD/P/(MP)/F at least internally. Do they report PD on MSPE? Without AOA/Ranking, I'm not sure what else they'd use it for?

 

[MaximusMDPhD]

Thanks for the replies guys. I stay worried about how the match will go since it's quite a transition. I guess I'm still open to basic science, but I don't know where the exciting things in neurobiology are shaking out yet and a post-doc would be a drag. In the professor or bust days I thought I'd become a pathologist, but that was just to make the lab career work. I guess I never saw myself doing clinical doctoring until I considered psych. I've been interested in psychiatry since psych 101 in college, but it was in the lab when things revved up - I studied behaviora l economics to be a better scientist then segued to philosophy when I found my daily work isolating and unfulfilling. I read a lot of anthropological and psychotherapeutic work as I turned to others and opened my life back up. In psychiatry I get to keep some of that good juju going. Psych is not the lesser evil, but the better good.

 

[Amygdarya]

Thanks for the replies guys. I stay worried about how the match will go since it's quite a transition. I guess I'm still open to basic science, but I don't know where the exciting things in neurobiology are shaking out yet and a post-doc would be a drag. In the professor or bust days I thought I'd become a pathologist, but that was just to make the lab career work. I guess I never saw myself doing clinical doctoring until I considered psych. I've been interested in psychiatry since psych 101 in college, but it was in the lab when things revved up - I studied behaviora l economics to be a better scientist then segued to philosophy when I found my daily work isolating and unfulfilling. I read a lot of anthropological and psychotherapeutic work as I turned to others and opened my life back up. In psychiatry I get to keep some of that good juju going. Psych is not the lesser evil, but the better good.

Sounds good. Just make sure to explain your decision to go into psychiatry well in your PS and at your interviews.

 

[OrangeOrange]

Step 1: 215
Step 2 CK/ CS: not yet, but taking six weeks to hopefully show improvement
School: unranked state USMD
Class Rank: pre clinical half H half HP
Clerkship Grades: HP internal, psych, and neuro; pass in peds
AOA: no probably not
Research/ Publications: wrote student piece for psych conference
Extracurriculars: ADCOM for my school, ethics committee for school, homeless shelter volunteer, 1 psych conference attendance
Quality of LORs if known: strong private psychiatrist I rotated with, medium chair letter, still thinking I'm the third
Red flags: failure in OB due to shelf failure, high marks and comments clinically, gave up third year elective to retake so at least won't be behind
Where you would like to end up: Midwest (ohio) but honestly anywhere that'll take me. Will to apply to as many programs as necessary.

 

[clausewitz2]

Step 1: 215
Step 2 CK/ CS: not yet, but taking six weeks to hopefully show improvement
School: unranked state USMD
Class Rank: pre clinical half H half HP
Clerkship Grades: HP internal, psych, and neuro; pass in peds
AOA: no probably not
Research/ Publications: wrote student piece for psych conference
Extracurriculars: ADCOM for my school, ethics committee for school, homeless shelter volunteer, 1 psych conference attendance
Quality of LORs if known: strong private psychiatrist I rotated with, medium chair letter, still thinking I'm the third
Red flags: failure in OB due to shelf failure, high marks and comments clinically, gave up third year elective to retake so at least won't be behind
Where you would like to end up: Midwest (ohio) but honestly anywhere that'll take me. Will to apply to as many programs as necessary.

Cincy is a reasonably strong program that really struggles to attract quality applicants, definitely worth a look. Also consider U of L, which is not that far outside the borders of Ohio.

 

[Merely]

Cincy is a reasonably strong program that really struggles to attract quality applicants, definitely worth a look. Also consider U of L, which is not that far outside the borders of Ohio.

How would you rank the quality and competitiveness of the Ohio programs? Which program is best?

 

[Breaking Free]

Thanks for all those who would give my application some thought. It's kind of you to let me occupy your mind for a bit. In general, my application, CV and life clearly proclaim "I love psychiatry." I'm a personable human being who does well in writing and interviews and can articulately and passionately answer "Why this?" and "Why not that?". I'm also a first generation college student with an interesting background. Mainly, I just think I could be very satisfied and have a lot of fun being a psychiatrist for the rest of my life.

Step 1: 220

-- This score has me very nervous. I had a [what had been] subclinical medical predisposition reveal itself for the 1st time in a disastrous way during the 3-4 months around Step 1. All the cortisol suppressed my immune system a little too much and made me an even easier target I guess. I have been extensively worked up and now have a specific diagnosis. It makes for a unique and crazy story to tell but a hard to swallow Step 1 score that does not reflect my capacity accurately. At the time I was just grateful to have survived the ordeal (illness + Step 1) without getting forced into an extra year of medical school.

Step 2 CK/ CS: Not taken yet. Will take in July, and it is reasonable for my CK to be 250+ if my health holds up this time around. NBME Shelf scores and UWORLD scores are my markers.

School: U.S. MD, well-established with a strong reputation.

Class Rank: Top 1/3, but I don't believe it gets reported to programs.

Clerkship Grades (specify if H/P/F system):
My school gives ~20% honors (H) and ~20% high pass (HP) with the rest pass/fail. They are very strict and do not inflate.

Psychiatry - Honors (killed it and loved it).
Internal Medicine - HP minimum (maybe Honors, still waiting)
Pediatrics - HP
OBGYN - HP
Neurology - HP
Family Medicine - Up next
Surgery - Last

AOA: Nope.

Research/ Publications: My research all has had a psychiatric focus, and it has resulted in 3 Abstracts, 2 Poster Presentations and 1 Published Manuscript during medical school. (Possibly 1 more paper and 1 more abstract/poster before residency application.)

Extracurriculars: Very strong, numerous, plenty of unique ones, and nearly all are related to Psychiatry. I have done a lot of leadership and been innovative at my institution, working closely with the department. I have a strong CV, and I'm grateful for this.

Quality of LORs if known: I had an incredible experience on my psych rotation, and I have well-developed relationships with the psych department faculty at my institution through my EC's. I'll also get 1 from my research PI who I have a great relationship with. My letters should be very strong... I'm sure that's how everyone feels though.

Red flags: I don't think this is a red flag, but my school will have to relay it on the MSPE. I required a short MLOA (MEDICAL, not personal) for the medical illness that manifested itself during the months of my Step 1 studies. This has been proven and documented. I have not been negatively impacted in any way (other than a lower score), and the administration has worked with me wholeheartedly.

Where you would like to end up: New York, East Coast, Chicago, Mid-West. I just want to be able to pursue my dream. Truthfully, I'll go anywhere, but I'd love to be near a psychoanalytic institute. I have dreamt for many years of being trained in Psychoanalysis. I am very passionate about psychotherapy in general though, in addition to appreciating the other tools I'll have at my disposal as a psychiatrist.

Advice on how to consolidate, talk about and package this all up effectively for residency programs would be infinitely appreciated.

 

[Amygdarya]

@Breaking Free congratulations on your solid application and dedication to psychiatry, and good luck with the remaining clinicals and Steps!

I'm just another student applying this year, but I think you'll be competitive at moderately to very competitive programs in the Northeast (by the way, have you considered Harvard programs and CHA specifically - it's known for its psychotherapy training). I think in the end your chances at the most competitive programs may come down to how competitive this year is going to be, exactly how good your school name and your LORs/importance of your LOR writers in the field are. Doing aways, while certainly not required in psych, may help at the top programs of interest - could be worth doing, especially if you are personable. (Anectodal evidence, but some residents at my competitive very psychodynamically oriented home program have told me they did aways here and believe they helped.)

Oh, and your short medical leave won't be a problem, especially if it's not a mental health issue and you can openly talk about it. Just please don't waste your PS on explaining your Step 1 score - talk about your passion for psychiatry and who you are as a person instead.
(Note on PS: my advisor told me she hated personal statements focusing on patient encounters/patient stories because they don't tell anything about the applicant - and all programs, but psychodynamically oriented programs even more so, want to know who applicants are as people.)

 

[SmallBird]

Step 1: High 230s
Step 2 CK/ CS: Not taken yet but I think it will be lower than step 1 (Forgot a lot in grad school, not the medical student I used to be)
School: Top 5
Class Rank: Bottom 1/3
Clerkship Grades (specify if H/P/F system): No honors
AOA: No
Research/ Publications: 1 (PhD thesis), a few posters
Extracurriculars: PhD, Psych interest group, minority mentorship (I am not minority myself)
Quality of LORs if known: Glowing psych subI letter, will likely get 1 letter from a psych continuity clinic, not sure where I'll get the third letter yet. Do NOT want to do medicine subI.
Red flags: No honors on rotations including psych, IM may or may not be on MSPE at the time I apply, not applying to a research residency track (Was PI-or-bust until the end of grad school in a field not at all related to psych, pivoting now and still interested in doing research but likely not in basic science lab and can't yet articulate a focus).
Where you would like to end up: CA > WA > TX/NC/RI/CT > MI/WI. I'm more psychotherapy focused than biologic focused, would love the opportunity to work some computational research into my residency project.

You could get into great programs, but I think you want to find a nice way to package your story. It's perfectly fine that you are unsure about whether your PhD will mean something in your career, and don't know if and what any research focus might be. But if you say it that way in your personal statement you basically invalidate the strongest part of your application. Is it not possible that your PhD gave you critical technical, reasoning and writing competencies, as well as a rich introduction to the world of academia, which, now, following a clinical experience which helped you discover a strong humanistic instinct, you hope to apply to altogether different questions at the cutting edge of clinical psychiatry? Or something like that. Remember once you start your residency as long as you come to class and do your clinical work people are quite happy to forget any verbal commitment you may have made to scholarship during your interview process!

 

[FlowRate]

@Breaking Free you'll likely be competitive anywhere as long as your step 2 goes as predicted.

 

[vitamin H]

I just matched in March and I wanted to add this for the benefit of people applying in the next cycle. I really struggled understanding the differences between programs. They all sounded so similar to me before I went through the interview process. I've been in universities for undergrad/med school and had never even heard of a community program or really understood how it was different from a university program. Here is how I ended up categorizing psychiatry programs

1. Strong University (top 20 program)
2. Middling University: (been around for decades, major university, but lesser known one)
3. Lower University (new program at a university)

4. Strong Community programs (been around for decades, strong ties to a university, fellowships available or residents easily go into fellowship, may even have a university name in the title, but its NOT a university program
5. Middling Community (been around for over a decade, strong ties to a university, residents do fellowships if they want)
6. Low Community (been around under 10 years, some ties to a local university)
7. Totally new community program (1st year class)

If applying with red fags make sure to apply to more lower university and a mix of community programs (strong, middle, low, new). I'm not putting geography/lifestyle/call ect, but I think this is a nice objective way to think about the strength of a program if you've never heard about it before.

 

[TisNowd]

In previous years you would have been a shoo-in at most mid-range programs in the Midwest. This year there were at least 2 similar-ish profiles among the applicants we interviewed--and they didn't match. The electives, LORs and conferences will help you--but don't take anything for granted. Seek to score 500 or better on your Step 2 and pass your CS on the first try. Smile and shine on interviews.

Thanks for the response, that's kind of what I'm afraid of. I was hitting almost 100 points higher on my practice exams and just screwed up the real thing. I'm also hoping to do a few "audition rotations" and am going to try and do a research rotation in psych. Is there anything else that I can/should do to make myself as competitive as possible? Would it be going too far to try and contact PDs at programs I'm interested in? I realize that based on my first two years I'm not the ideal candidate, but I'd like to do whatever possible to make up for that and show programs that I'm serious about psych and that I'm a better candidate than my first two years show.

 

[zzzdrugs]

I just matched in March and I wanted to add this for the benefit of people applying in the next cycle. I really struggled understanding the differences between programs. They all sounded so similar to me before I went through the interview process. I've been in universities for undergrad/med school and had never even heard of a community program or really understood how it was different from a university program. Here is how I ended up categorizing psychiatry programs

1. Strong University (top 20 program)
2. Middling University: (been around for decades, major university, but lesser known one)
3. Lower University (new program at a university)

4. Strong Community programs (been around for decades, strong ties to a university, fellowships available or residents easily go into fellowship, may even have a university name in the title, but its NOT a university program
5. Middling Community (been around for over a decade, strong ties to a university, residents do fellowships if they want)
6. Low Community (been around under 10 years, some ties to a local university)
7. Totally new community program (1st year class)

If applying with red fags make sure to apply to more lower university and a mix of community programs (strong, middle, low, new). I'm not putting geography/lifestyle/call ect, but I think this is a nice objective way to think about the strength of a program if you've never heard about it before.

So how do we know if a program is a university program or is a community program affiliated with a university?

 

[vitamin H]

So how do we know if a program is a university program or is a community program affiliated with a university?

The websites help, the proper University program will have its own website whereas the university affiliated community program may even get a mention on the University program's site or a link to their own. But the university affiliated community program will have its own webpage separate from the proper one.

Some university affiliated community programs will also have a hyphenated name like UCSF-Fresno or UCLA-SFV or UW Idaho track ect. Some university affiliated community programs won't have the University's name but will have the name of their main medical center ie San Marcos County. If there is no University name, then you know that its a community program with possible ties to their own university. I think most community programs have some tie to a university.

 

[rkat]

Step 1: 234
Step 2 CK/ CS: neither done yet, CK in May and CS in August
School: Mid-tier USMD school in Chicago
Class Rank: Not sure, probably 2nd or 3rd quartile
Clerkship Grades (specify if H/P/F system): Psych+Surg-honors; Primary Care-high pass; everything else-pass
AOA: nope
Research/ Publications: Psych research + thesis at Brown (undergrad), 2 years of psych research at MGH prior to med school. Mindfulness research in med school. 6 publications, 6 posters, almost all are psych-related.
Extracurriculars: AAPA Minority Mentorship summer program in addiction medicine in LA, volunteer at local jail doing health education, a couple other student orgs
Quality of LORs if known: Should be strong - geriatrician, psychiatrist, psychiatry chair, surgeon (?) + maybe research mentors from MGH for Boston programs
Red flags: none
Where you would like to end up: Location-wise, I'm limited by my SO's work to large cities with tech. My family recently moved to CA. I would love to end up there but I think it will be tough! Currently thinking of applying to places in LA, Irvine, San Diego, SF, Seattle, Chicago, Boston, Pittsburgh, DC. Looking for strong clinical and psychotherapy training, good quality of life/happy residents, and family-friendly programs. Leaning toward community programs because I think they might be a better fit, but will definitely be applying to academic programs as well.

Would love some suggestions about places I should apply to and whether I'd have a chance at California programs. Thanks in advance!

 

[FlowRate]

Step 1: 234
Step 2 CK/ CS: neither done yet, CK in May and CS in August
School: Mid-tier USMD school in Chicago
Class Rank: Not sure, probably 2nd or 3rd quartile
Clerkship Grades (specify if H/P/F system): Psych+Surg-honors; Primary Care-high pass; everything else-pass
AOA: nope
Research/ Publications: Psych research + thesis at Brown (undergrad), 2 years of psych research at MGH prior to med school. Mindfulness research in med school. 6 publications, 6 posters, almost all are psych-related.
Extracurriculars: AAPA Minority Mentorship summer program in addiction medicine in LA, volunteer at local jail doing health education, a couple other student orgs
Quality of LORs if known: Should be strong - geriatrician, psychiatrist, psychiatry chair, surgeon (?) + maybe research mentors from MGH for Boston programs
Red flags: none
Where you would like to end up: Location-wise, I'm limited by my SO's work to large cities with tech. My family recently moved to CA. I would love to end up there but I think it will be tough! Currently thinking of applying to places in LA, Irvine, San Diego, SF, Seattle, Chicago, Boston, Pittsburgh, DC. Looking for strong clinical and psychotherapy training, good quality of life/happy residents, and family-friendly programs. Leaning toward community programs because I think they might be a better fit, but will definitely be applying to academic programs as well.

Would love some suggestions about places I should apply to and whether I'd have a chance at California programs. Thanks in advance!

You're competitive enough that I think it's worth applying to any program you're interested in, but not competitive enough to bank on only top-10 programs. Hopefully your Step 2 score, research, and anything else that stands out will help.

 

[notamindreader]

.

 

[Monocles]

The "power creep" in step scores is crazy... to put things into perspective there are many current senior residents and fellows in our affiliated programs with sub 200 step scores. Yet this year I looked at the interview roster and there are tons of people applying with 240s/250s. I don't think I would be able to get into my current residency if I had to apply next year...

 

[HopefulSpartan]

Step 1: COMLEX 523
Step 2 CK/ CS: practical in June, written in July
School: east coast DO school
Class Rank: low
Clerkship Grades: school uses numerical system, high 80s low 90s on most clerkships. 97 on psych clerkship.
AOA: nope
Research/ Publications: none in medical school, just a poster presentation in undergrad
Extracurriculars: APA/psychsign
Quality of LORs if known: residency director from a non-psych program, psych preceptor, pediatrician. They should all be pretty good LORs as far as being from physicians who know me well. Ideally will get a 4th letter from a psych subi this fall.
Red flags: failed a preclinical course in M1, low preclinical grades in general
Where you would like to end up: at an ACGME accredited program, no specific geographic restrictions though I like the southeast US.

I'm hoping to get some auditions in this fall and will apply broadly to programs. I've been interested in psychiatry since before undergrad, and of course now once I'm at this point it is the most competitive it has ever been!

 

[postbacpremed87]

What's the final consensus on taking USMLE Step 2 CK as a DO if your Step 1 was around 240?

 

[Blitz2006]

The "power creep" in step scores is crazy... to put things into perspective there are many current senior residents and fellows in our affiliated programs with sub 200 step scores. Yet this year I looked at the interview roster and there are tons of people applying with 240s/250s. I don't think I would be able to get into my current residency if I had to apply next year...

I agree. This thread is eye-opening.

I don't even think 5 years ago people with 240s/250s were even applying to psych...let alone being advised here to have a potential backup!

 

[postbacpremed87]

I agree. This thread is eye-opening.

I don't even think 5 years ago people with 240s/250s were even applying to psych...let alone being advised here to have a potential backup!

Yeah still wondering everyone's opinion on Step 2 CK as a DO.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

I have said this a lot and haven't heard much disagreement. Unless you blow it, it is always better to have USMLE than to not have it. Even if programs don't say they require it, they prefer it. We are picking who to interview over those who we don't interview so requiring it is telling, but preferring it is still very much in play. If your COMLEX is low, a good USMLE will eliminate that. If your COMLEX is high, why not take it? You will probably do well and concern over test costs seems misplaced given the cost of your education in general.

 

[grapefruit17]

Step 1: COMLEX 523
Step 2 CK/ CS: practical in June, written in July
School: east coast DO school
Class Rank: low
Clerkship Grades: school uses numerical system, high 80s low 90s on most clerkships. 97 on psych clerkship.
AOA: nope
Research/ Publications: none in medical school, just a poster presentation in undergrad
Extracurriculars: APA/psychsign
Quality of LORs if known: residency director from a non-psych program, psych preceptor, pediatrician. They should all be pretty good LORs as far as being from physicians who know me well. Ideally will get a 4th letter from a psych subi this fall.
Red flags: failed a preclinical course in M1, low preclinical grades in general
Where you would like to end up: at an ACGME accredited program, no specific geographic restrictions though I like the southeast US.

I'm hoping to get some auditions in this fall and will apply broadly to programs. I've been interested in psychiatry since before undergrad, and of course now once I'm at this point it is the most competitive it has ever been!

I had a below average usmle step 1, lower comlex step 1 then you, but >600 step 2 comlex. Did not take usmle step 2 CK. 10 interview invites (acgme), 4-5 waitlists. I also had no research. ace step 2 and i think you'll match somewhere. Apply super broadly like i did (sure as heck doesn't hurt).

 

[grapefruit17]

Yeah still wondering everyone's opinion on Step 2 CK as a DO.

I had to drop mine because of life circumstances, but I probably should have taken it honestly. Im confident not having both USMLEs prevented me from getting some interviews. But I'm also super glad where i matched so all worked out ok anyways. lol. I also have more of a clinical brain, and was doing wayyy better on step 2 stuff than step 1.

Do comlex PE early too. Having all your results in helps. A few places asked if i had my CS/PE and i took it a bit late.

 

[OrangeOrange]

Updated details for a post from a month ago that didn't get much love:

Step 1: 210
Step 2 CK/ CS: Neither done yet, taking 6 weeks to kill CK
School: State MD school in the Northeast
Class Rank: Prob lowest quartile
Grades in Clerkship: HP Psych, HP Medicine and FM, HP OBGYN, Pass everything else
AOA: lol no
Research/ Publications: a pub and some posters from neuropsych lab work (like 6th author), hopefully will have a 2nd or 3rd author bio psych paper soon
Extracurriculars: SUPER involved in Psychiatry from the start of med school and even college. Clubs, APA involvement, etc etc without getting too specific. Going to make it clear in my PS I came to med school to be a psychiatrist, and I think it's clear even just by looking at my CV.
Quality of LORs if known: Will have at least one amazing LOR from core rotation in Psych
Red Flags: (step failures, etc): standardized patient failure, retook Peds shelf (failed shelf grades appear in dean's letter with a comment about the student's grade on the retake)

Open to suggestions about how to improve, though I think killing CK will be my best bet at this point. Also looking for advice whether an away (in my own city) should be done at a target or a reach program? This wouldn't be to show interest in moving across the country.
Also might be couples matching, curious how this plays into our scenario as well if anyone has any advice or anecdotes on this. SO is applying to a more competitive specialty with the scores and grades to boot.

Thanks everyone!

 

[tomphn]

Step 1: 242
Step 2 CK/ CS: CS in August, CK in Sept.
School: Mid-Upper NE school
Class Rank: Mid
Clerkship Grades (specify if H/P/F system): H in Peds, HP in everything else
AOA: No
Research/ Publications:
1. Undergrad: No papers in undergrad, did modeling research for a biochemistry lab.
2. One abstract that I'm co-authored on for Anesthesia research that has was awarded a "best of" prize at international and regional conference; 1 publication where I'm 5th author.
3. Essay publication in national news website; 3 poetry publications in national poetry journals
Extracurriculars:
Undergrad: Teaching assistant for 3 years
MD: Community service leadership, MD improv comedy president/coach, vice-president of anesthesia interest group.
Quality of LORs if known: Should be strong. 2x Psychiatry, 1x internal medicine, 1x back up from my anesthesia PI.
Red flags: none
Where you would like to end up: I'd like to end up at a strong academic program, especially with a commitment to global health and the underserved. I'd like to work with Vietnamese and Spanish populations, given those are the two languages I speak. Ideally it would be a coastal city. Though, I don't have any strong need to be in any particular area.

I have a lot of anesthesia-related activities; found out third year, I hate the OR in any form .