The HRSA predicts an oversupply of ~50,000 pharmacists by 2025; similar predictions for NPs/PAs

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@PAtoPharm

I think the rad tech is a great option. My friend did rad tech and then do MRI, he is making ~90k/year working ~45 hrs/wk.

It's amazing that there are career in healthcare that one can make 6 figure salary with just an AS degree..

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@PAtoPharm

I think the rad tech is a great option. My friend did rad tech and then do MRI, he is making ~90k/year working ~45 hrs/wk.

It's amazing that there are career in healthcare that one can make 6 figure salary with just an AS degree..

Yeah, I actually got the idea from a rad/MRI tech who was overseeing an MRI I had done recently. Apparently, once someone has become a rad tech, they can then pursue additional certifications in MRI, NMT, and other fields by getting OJT and taking online classes. According to the people I've talked to, it would make more sense to first become a rad tech with an AS rather than do the NMT BS program I mentioned on here before (more expensive and limits me to being an NMT; as a rad tech I can get certified in MRI, NMT, and other fields).

It's pretty sad when 2-3 years of community college AS classes can lead to a career that involves less stress and pays just as well as one that requires a doctoral degree and 1-2 years of residency (I.e, hospital pharmacist).

I forgot to mention in my last post that if I end up pursuing the rad tech degree (either out of choice or because AA/PA programs turn me down), I will look into filing for bankruptcy so that I don't have to pay back my AA or pharm loans. My credit score is already abysmal, I live with my parents and have practically no possessions/assets (definitely fewer than $18-$19k worth of them), and I would have to pay for the rad tech degree out of pocket anyways since I already have a bachelor's degree. I would be a fool to not investigate the option.
 
Good luck Pa2Pharm, appreciate the update (keep them coming too).
 
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Jesus. Declare bankruptcy because you are flighty AF?

The solid plans don't quit.
 
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Yes, student loans are easy to default on, that is why so many people do it. You cracked the code!

Watch me. And thanks in advance for helping to ease the financial burden
 
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What college of pharmacy around here do you know people that can't find and jobs in ga

I've talked to students at both Mercer and PCOM who are making plans to move out of state for their first jobs
 
Jesus. Declare bankruptcy because you are flighty AF?

The solid plans don't quit.

Which one is literally more "flighty"... switching to another profession that actually has a prosperous future, or continuing on in pharmacy school :):shudder::) with the expectation of having to move 2-3 states away just to get a 32 hrs/week CVS slave job? I'll take another school/career change any day of the week. Nobody around here thinks I'm making a mistake.
 
Watch me. And thanks in advance for helping to ease the financial burden

Anytime, glad to help! I am totally sure you are going to be successful at this as well as all your future endeavors! After all student loans get discharged all the time, should be pretty simple for you. I just wish I had your insight when I was a 1st year pharmacy student. You totally have it figure out now my friend. It is a wonder more students don't follow your lead. I am going to blame...cognitive dissonance!
 
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Anytime, glad to help! I am totally sure you are going to be successful at this as well as all your future endeavors! After all student loans get discharged all the time, should be pretty simple for you. I just wish I had your insight when I was a 1st year pharmacy student. You totally have it figure out now my friend. It is a wonder more students don't follow your lead. I am going to blame...cognitive dissonance!

Blame whatever the hell you want. Maybe you should be more concerned about losing your job to one of the thousands of new graduates who are/will be desperate for any job they can get (maybe consider going back to do a PGY1/2/3/4/5?). And don't kid yourself; if you were a P1 now, you'd be thinking about a plan B career. More students aren't following my lead because they're ignorant, uninformed, idiots (plenty of them), or just convinced that they're so special and hard-working that they won't be one of thousands of graduates who will have to move to find any bottom-scraping miserable CVS job they can find. Even spending two application cycles to get accepted to AA school would still have me graduating sooner than someone in my cohort would graduate from a PGY-1/PGY-2 residency, and for a $30k-$60k higher salary than they can expect to make (not to mention 5-6 wks of PTO).

There are actual P1-year pharmacy students who are unknowingly committing to spend another 5-6 years (possibly longer when the PGY-3 is established?) in school and training just to find a job that likely won't even pay six figures to start (and based on the job market thread, they'll have to move just to find that job, and it probably won't even be in the specialty they completed a residency for). How's that for cognitive dissonance?
 
In case anyone else who is saddled with dead-end student loan debt would like to learn more about how they can go about seeking discharge of their debt by applying for bankruptcy, here's some good reading:

Student Loan Bankruptcy
 
Blame whatever the hell you want. Maybe you should be more concerned about losing your job to one of the thousands of new graduates who are/will be desperate for any job they can get (maybe consider going back to do a PGY1/2/3/4/5?). And don't kid yourself; if you were a P1 now, you'd be thinking about a plan B career. More students aren't following my lead because they're ignorant, uninformed, idiots (plenty of them), or just convinced that they're so special and hard-working that they won't be one of thousands of graduates who will have to move to find any bottom-scraping miserable CVS job they can find. Even spending two application cycles to get accepted to AA school would still have me graduating sooner than someone in my cohort would graduate from a PGY-1/PGY-2 residency, and for a $30k-$60k higher salary than they can expect to make (not to mention 5-6 wks of PTO).

There are actual P1-year pharmacy students who are unknowingly committing to spend another 5-6 years (possibly longer when the PGY-3 is established?) in school and training just to find a job that likely won't even pay six figures to start (and based on the job market thread, they'll have to move just to find that job, and it probably won't even be in the specialty they completed a residency for). How's that for cognitive dissonance?

Oh don't worry, I do worry about that, all the time! I spend so much time worrying about that that I hardly have time to do my job. How can I, when I know there is a line a mile long waiting to replace me?! At least I can always fall back on having my loans discharged if I do get fired and then maybe I can do something with my life, like become a PA. All those years of pharmacy school would be wasted but I can't go back in time and change the past so I guess I will have to make do with my 6 figure job, ya'know? :(
 
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In case anyone else who is saddled with dead-end student loan debt would like to learn more about how they can go about seeking discharge of their debt by applying for bankruptcy, here's some good reading:

Student Loan Bankruptcy

Great link, that makes so much more sense than IBR, I can't believe everyone doesn't do this! That lawyer is definitely not going to take your money and leave you saddled with your student loans! Great plan oh wise one. Teach us more of your wisdom.
 
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Oh don't worry, I do worry about that, all the time! I spend so much time worrying about that that I hardly have time to do my job. How can I, when I know there is a line a mile long waiting to replace me?! At least I can always fall back on having my loans discharged if I do get fired and then maybe I can do something with my life, like become a PA. All those years of pharmacy school would be wasted but I can't go back in time and change the past so I guess I will have to make do with my 6 figure job, ya'know? :(
I stay up at night worrying about the future of my job that is giving me an extra week long expense paid vacation because of my performance, and thinking about how I could possibly pay off the $3,000 in student loans I still owe.

If only I had the vision and brilliance to pursue a community college degree when there was still time.
 
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I stay up at night worrying about the future of my job that is giving me an extra week long expense paid vacation because of my performance, and thinking about how I could possibly pay off the $3,000 in student loans I still owe.

If only I had the vision and brilliance to pursue a community college degree when there was still time.

Yeah, and that extra week of vacation still doesn't give you the same amount of PTO that ASSISTANTS who only have lowly master's degrees are being offered as new graduates (and on top of that, they actually get to live and work in desirable areas!).
 
I stay up at night worrying about the future of my job that is giving me an extra week long expense paid vacation because of my performance, and thinking about how I could possibly pay off the $3,000 in student loans I still owe.

If only I had the vision and brilliance to pursue a community college degree when there was still time.

One other thing... you can make as many cracks on community college degrees as you want, but what does it say about the pharmacy profession that in many states, pharmacists who have pursued residency training are earning either the same salaries or only marginally more than people who have earned pitiful community college degrees as compared to your mighty doctorate?
 
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Oh don't worry, I do worry about that, all the time! I spend so much time worrying about that that I hardly have time to do my job. How can I, when I know there is a line a mile long waiting to replace me?! At least I can always fall back on having my loans discharged if I do get fired and then maybe I can do something with my life, like become a PA. All those years of pharmacy school would be wasted but I can't go back in time and change the past so I guess I will have to make do with my 6 figure job, ya'know? :(

Might as well enjoy it while it lasts. Meanwhile, a cohort of AA/CRNA students is about to graduate within the next couple months, and they'll also be earning six figure salaries just like you... except their salaries aren't just like yours, because they're going to be signing on for anywhere from $35k-$50k more than you earn as an LTC pharmacist (and this is in desirable areas like Atlanta and south Florida -- two areas that are almost totally saturated with pharmacists). To earn what they're going to be making, you'd have to work a laughable amount of overtime. I hope to be joining them in a few years. Even with the short detour I've taken to experience the sham profession known as modern pharmacy, I'll still be graduating sooner than I'd be if I had stuck with dead-end pharmacy school and completed a PGY-1 (just to get a basement staffing job).
 
Might as well enjoy it while it lasts. Meanwhile, a cohort of AA/CRNA students is about to graduate within the next couple months, and they'll also be earning six figure salaries just like you... except their salaries aren't just like yours, because they're going to be signing on for anywhere from $35k-$50k more than you earn as an LTC pharmacist (and this is in desirable areas like Atlanta and south Florida -- two areas that are almost totally saturated with pharmacists). To earn what they're going to be making, you'd have to work a laughable amount of overtime. I hope to be joining them in a few years. Even with the short detour I've taken to experience the sham profession known as modern pharmacy, I'll still be graduating sooner than I'd be if I had stuck with dead-end pharmacy school and completed a PGY-1 (just to get a basement staffing job).
I legit feel bad for you. 28 years old spending all of your time trashing a profession on a forum site after you wasted your money on both pharmacy school and AA school lmaoo. You're a joke dude, glad you're not gonna be a pharmacist, you'd be a terrible one anyways with your attitude
 
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I legit feel bad for you. 28 years old spending all of your time trashing a profession on a forum site after you wasted your money on both pharmacy school and AA school lmaoo. You're a joke dude, glad you're not gonna be a pharmacist, you'd be a terrible one anyways with your attitude

http://addictionblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Can-you-be-addicted-to-slot-machines2.jpg

"Come on big money! Third time's the charm! 90k working 45 hours a week is pretty much six figures!"

Yeah, and that extra week of vacation still doesn't give you the same amount of PTO that ASSISTANTS who only have lowly master's degrees are being offered as new graduates (and on top of that, they actually get to live and work in desirable areas!).

You'd think you'd recognize the pattern in your educational follies by now.

Let me know how realtor school is going in a few years.
 
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I legit feel bad for you. 28 years old spending all of your time trashing a profession on a forum site after you wasted your money on both pharmacy school and AA school lmaoo. You're a joke dude, glad you're not gonna be a pharmacist, you'd be a terrible one anyways with your attitude

I hope you're doing all the interning, networking, and assorted forms of hustling you'll need to be doing if you want to actually, you know, work as a pharmacist by the time you graduate. I'm sure as hell glad I'm not going to be a pharmacist, either. And I wouldn't consider the money I spent on my first attempt at going through AA school to be a waste; once I get accepted to one again, I'll just consider the debt from my first attempt to be an "additional fee" on the total AA school tuition bill. However, I will concede that there is no other way to characterize my pharmacy school expenses than as an utter waste of money. Then again, I think that would still be the case even if I had finished pharmacy school and graduated.
 
http://addictionblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Can-you-be-addicted-to-slot-machines2.jpg

"Come on big money! Third time's the charm! 90k working 45 hours a week is pretty much six figures!"

what's with this bizarre fixation on the community college programs? Did you miss the part in my post where I said that the rad tech program was just a back-up option in case I can't get into AA school again (unlikely)? AA school is the primary goal here. And yes, even if you don't like the idea of me ever being successful, it doesn't change the fact that they earn higher salaries than pharmacists, their education is often cheaper, and that AA/CRNA school only takes about 55% of the amount of time that it takes to complete pharmacy school.

And when you compare an LTC pharmacist working in the southeast for $38 hr (yes, it is a fact that LTC pharmacy contractors in the south are paying this wage or close to it) for 40 hrs/wk with $130k+ in loans to pay back to an MRI tech earning $95k working 45 hrs/week with no debt to pay back, who's actually making more?
 
I hope you're doing all the interning, networking, and assorted forms of hustling you'll need to be doing if you want to actually, you know, work as a pharmacist by the time you graduate. I'm sure as hell glad I'm not going to be a pharmacist, either. And I wouldn't consider the money I spent on my first attempt at going through AA school to be a waste; once I get accepted to one again, I'll just consider the debt from my first attempt to be an "additional fee" on the total AA school tuition bill. However, I will concede that there is no other way to characterize my pharmacy school expenses than as an utter waste of money. Then again, I think that would still be the case even if I had finished pharmacy school and graduated.
There are still sign on bonuses in my state, but thanks for the advice I guess? If you legitimately think there are no jobs in pharmacy, you're dreadfully ignorant. Yeah the coasts/big cities are saturated, but if you're flexible there are many jobs. But yeah continue to live in your alternate reality
 
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You'd think you'd recognize the pattern in your educational follies by now.

Let me know how realtor school is going in a few years.

So that's really all you can resort to coming back with? Whenever I suggest an alternative career to pharmacy that is objectively and inarguably a better deal in every way than pharmacy, you (and everyone else, FWIW) realize that you can't argue with the facts, so instead you resort to spouting off with some variation of "well it doesn't matter if it's a better career than pharmacy or not, because you won't succeed with it anyways!" It's almost like the people here have some bizarre obsession with wanting to insist that someone like myself simply can't move on to something better than pharmacy. It just can't happen; it wouldn't be right.

Geez, take me back to the OR. So glad I am now actively pursuing an endeavor that is actually worth pursuing.
 
There are still sign on bonuses in my state, but thanks for the advice I guess? If you legitimately think there are no jobs in pharmacy, you're dreadfully ignorant. Yeah the coasts/big cities are saturated, but if you're flexible there are many jobs. But yeah continue to live in your alternate reality

Alternate reality? Do you realize that states like GA (and not just cities like Atlanta) are now saturated? The fact that you are from a BFE state that nobody wants to live in doesn't change the reality that even the medium-sized cities in traditionally undesirable areas (not just "coasts/big cities") are now becoming saturated. If by "flexible" you mean "willing to move across the country to another state to live in a town with a population of <5,000 and absolutely nothing going on," then no, I'm not flexible. What pharmacy offers in exchange for that degree of "flexibility" is absolutely not worth it.
 
BTW -- if I'm living in an alternate reality, then I guess I have somehow dragged everyone else into it with me (or, you know, just the BLS, HRSA, Pharmacy Manpower Study, district managers, hospital DOP's, etc.).
 
One other thing... you can make as many cracks on community college degrees as you want, but what does it say about the pharmacy profession that in many states, pharmacists who have pursued residency training are earning either the same salaries or only marginally more than people who have earned pitiful community college degrees as compared to your mighty doctorate?

It's not a crack on cc degrees, just a crack on you.

Seriously, these guys have something that, from your post, it seems like you don't have: happiness. They are where you wanted to be, the same people who gave you advice... it's crazy how you talk as though they are beneath you. They have stable jobs whether you like it or not.

So that's really all you can resort to coming back with? Whenever I suggest an alternative career to pharmacy that is objectively and inarguably a better deal in every way than pharmacy, you (and everyone else, FWIW) realize that you can't argue with the facts, so instead you resort to spouting off with some variation of "well it doesn't matter if it's a better career than pharmacy or not, because you won't succeed with it anyways!" It's almost like the people here have some bizarre obsession with wanting to insist that someone like myself simply can't move on to something better than pharmacy. It just can't happen; it wouldn't be right.

Geez, take me back to the OR. So glad I am now actively pursuing an endeavor that is actually worth pursuing.

I've read all 15 pages, hilarious btw, on this post. Literally everyone has wished you well. Everyone has encouraged you to find something better. They gave you advice to not go to pharmacy school, they told you to find better. Meaning they know there is better out there. The insults started with you. I could quote 7 different pharmacist, who has wished you well in this thread, right now.

Just move on.
 
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BTW -- if I'm living in an alternate reality, then I guess I have somehow dragged everyone else into it with me (or, you know, just the BLS, HRSA, Pharmacy Manpower Study, district managers, hospital DOP's, etc.).
I live in a major metropolitan area and many pharmacies are still hiring lmao. Saying that everyone is gonna be unemployed or forced to move across the US is yet another lie spewed out of your mouth. Too bad sweeping generalizations don't help you pass AA school, bc if they did you'd be #1 in you're class instead of failing out.
 
I live in a major metropolitan area and many pharmacies are still hiring lmao. Saying that everyone is gonna be unemployed or forced to move across the US is yet another lie spewed out of your mouth. Too bad sweeping generalizations don't help you pass AA school, bc if they did you'd be #1 in you're class instead of failing out.
Your*
 
I live in a major metropolitan area and many pharmacies are still hiring lmao. Saying that everyone is gonna be unemployed or forced to move across the US is yet another lie spewed out of your mouth. Too bad sweeping generalizations don't help you pass AA school, bc if they did you'd be #1 in you're class instead of failing out.

Ok, you're right; the BLS, HRSA, and every other metric that was derived from common-sense numbers crunching comparing the number of graduates to the number of jobs are sweeping generalizations that are full of ****. Also, enjoy caring for your patients (not "customers"; we call them "patients," remember) with a totally awesome new clinical acumen and scope of practice that you'll be granted after provider status is implemented. And then think about all the incredible new opportunities this milestone will create in the job market. I hope I don't regret missing out on it all because I chose to get a master's degree that results in a higher-paying job that provides better benefits, more PTO, more pleasant work, and the option to sit throughout the majority of the day.
 
Ok, you're right; the BLS, HRSA, and every other metric that was derived from common-sense numbers crunching comparing the number of graduates to the number of jobs are sweeping generalizations that are full of ****. Also, enjoy caring for your patients (not "customers"; we call them "patients," remember) with a totally awesome new clinical acumen and scope of practice that you'll be granted after provider status is implemented. And then think about all the incredible new opportunities this milestone will create in the job market. I hope I don't regret missing out on it all because I chose to get a master's degree that results in a higher-paying job that provides better benefits, more PTO, more pleasant work, and the option to sit throughout the majority of the day.
Wow no wonder everybody on SDN hates you. I'm not even arguing that pharmacy isn't saturated, but to say it's impossible to find a job is a complete lie which is my entire point. You literally just totally ignored what I said, which was in reference to my area, not the entire US in general. I'm done arguing with some loser 28 year old who isn't even affiliated with pharmacy whatsoever lmao
 
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It's not a crack on cc degrees, just a crack on you.

Seriously, these guys have something that, from your post, it seems like you don't have: happiness. They are where you wanted to be, the same people who gave you advice... it's crazy how you talk as though they are beneath you. They have stable jobs whether you like it or not.



I've read all 15 pages, hilarious btw, on this post. Literally everyone has wished you well. Everyone has encouraged you to find something better. They gave you advice to not go to pharmacy school, they told you to find better. Meaning they know there is better out there. The insults started with you. I could quote 7 different pharmacist, who has wished you well in this thread, right now.

Just move on.

Your post needs a correction. No, the people in this thread are NOT where I want to be. The thought of having to take a job as a CVS pharmacist is the career manifestation of a nightmare, and I will happily and proudly acknowledge that I will never have to go to sleep at night with the anticipation that in the morning, I will be going to work a shift at CVS. I don't care if these people have stable jobs or not, although it is interesting to note that these same posters will (in other threads) lament the inevitable and impending loss of job security in pharmacy. If I had the option of taking a retail pharmacist job starting tomorrow or starting over in AA school, I wouldn't even hesitate to forego the actual pharmacist job offer and go back to AA school. They can keep their "opportunities" in this profession to themselves.
 
Wow no wonder everybody on SDN hates you. I'm not even arguing that pharmacy isn't saturated, but to say it's impossible to find a job is a complete lie which is my entire point. You literally just totally ignored what I said, which was in reference to my area, not the entire US in general. I'm done arguing with some loser 28 year old who isn't even affiliated with pharmacy whatsoever lmao

Alrighty then, go type another essay on professionalism, empathetic communication skills, the use of patient counseling sessions to improve the quality of patient care, how provider status will revolutionize the pharmacy profession, and other notions and concepts that out-of-touch pharmacy schools are charging you rip-off tuition rates to learn about, even though they'll never actually be relevant to the "practice" of pharmacy (or whatever you call what it's becoming)!
 
Alrighty then, go type another essay on professionalism, empathetic communication skills, the use of patient counseling sessions to improve the quality of patient care, how provider status will revolutionize the pharmacy profession, and other notions and concepts that out-of-touch pharmacy schools are charging you rip-off tuition rates to learn about, even though they'll never actually be relevant to the "practice" of pharmacy (or whatever you call what it's becoming)!

I'm curious, did you decide against the MD/DO path altogether?
 
I'm curious, did you decide against the MD/DO path altogether?

I wouldn't say I have decided against it altogether, but I don't think I want to spend that much extra time in school/residency at this point. If I end up in PA school instead of AA school, then that at least leaves the option open of going to DO school a few years down the road via the PA-to-DO bridge program (although I really think AA school is the best option at this point in terms of ROI vs. time/money spent in school).
 
I wouldn't say I have decided against it altogether, but I don't think I want to spend that much extra time in school/residency at this point. If I end up in PA school instead of AA school, then that at least leaves the option open of going to DO school a few years down the road via the PA-to-DO bridge program (although I really think AA school is the best option at this point in terms of ROI vs. time/money spent in school).

Gotcha. I can see why the MD/DO length of training can be a turn off for a nontrad. Keep us updated.
 
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Gotcha. I can see why the MD/DO length of training can be a turn off for a nontrad. Keep us updated.

If I had alternatives, I would honestly probably choose to go to dental school, but I understand that it is so insanely competitive to get accepted to essentially any dental school that the thought isn't even worth entertaining.
 
If I had alternatives, I would honestly probably choose to go to dental school, but I understand that it is so insanely competitive to get accepted to essentially any dental school that the thought isn't even worth entertaining.

I wouldn't recommend Dentistry in your case. You'd need additional post-bacc work to make yourself a competitive applicant. Another problem is that the schools that might take you (private one's) aren't worth the debt in my opinion, especially considering that you're a non-trad already with a sizeable debt. You're at a stage where you just gotta pick one and stick to it.
 
Your post needs a correction. No, the people in this thread are NOT where I want to be. The thought of having to take a job as a CVS pharmacist is the career manifestation of a nightmare, and I will happily and proudly acknowledge that I will never have to go to sleep at night with the anticipation that in the morning, I will be going to work a shift at CVS. I don't care if these people have stable jobs or not, although it is interesting to note that these same posters will (in other threads) lament the inevitable and impending loss of job security in pharmacy. If I had the option of taking a retail pharmacist job starting tomorrow or starting over in AA school, I wouldn't even hesitate to forego the actual pharmacist job offer and go back to AA school. They can keep their "opportunities" in this profession to themselves.

Reading is fundamental, I say you WANTED... past tense.

What's sad is you didn't take any advice, it got you here, and now you still aren't taking their advice, when they were right from the beginning. You jumped right into pharmacy without doing your research. You don't want to work retail? That shows me that you didn't look into the profession at all. How can you just switch like that without experiencing it first?

One thing I don't get about many new prepharmers and even some pharmacy students: why in the world would you pick pharmacy without working in retail?
 
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Wow, I pretty much forgot about this thread. To give an update while I still remember to visit SDN from time to time, I'm taking the GRE next month and will be sending out my AA/PA school applications after that. I am also applying to a local 3-semester RN program and a radiology tech program just to have additional options. The rad tech program is somewhat appealing because I can complete that program in a year and then become a NMT after that with additional training/certs/courses. NMT's make within $4-$5/hour of what local hospital pharmacists earn, and I got in touch with an NMT manager/director who makes over $130k for doing low-stress work and with no student loan debt to pay back. The rad tech pathway is also flexible because rad techs can pursue additional school/training to become radiation therapists and then dosimetrists, who earn six figure incomes.

At this point, I am totally done with pharmacy school and will not be returning to school next fall. Even the preceptor I had during the spring semester told me "in good conscience" to at least consider other options, and I didn't even ask her if it was a bad idea to continue pursuing pharmacy. She said it's a good idea to get out while it's still early for me. I have also gotten in touch with c/0 2017 grads who are looking at relocating to rural MS and LA because there are literally no jobs left in most of civilized GA. A couple of the younger ones I talked to who don't have that much in loans to pay back are looking at applying to PA or nursing programs.

Pharmacy school has been the biggest mistake of my life, and my now well-informed family thinks I'd be insane to resume classes in the fall. There is literally one job opening in my area right now, and that is at a CVS that hasn't been able to keep a single FT pharmacist on staff. The last one they hired quit after 2 days, and they sadly had previous retail experience. There is absolutely no future in this field.

At the very least, pharmacy school was a good opportunity to raise my GPA so that I can be more competitive for AA/PA program admissions.

Welcome back @PAtoPharm - you've been sorely missed!! And thanks for keeping the "best thread of 2017" going!! Sorry to hear you're leaving pharmacy (for now, you could always come back), but we're all excited to follow your next journey through AA (part 2), Rad Tech, & beyond. Please keep us posted on your progress!!
 
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I sadly missed this thread. I see someone still only looks at salary for what they want to do for a living.

I wouldn't compare 90k salary with 140k salary though, huge difference there. That's just base too without incentives and bonus.
 
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In case anyone else who is saddled with dead-end student loan debt would like to learn more about how they can go about seeking discharge of their debt by applying for bankruptcy, here's some good reading:

Student Loan Bankruptcy

With the introduction of PAYE and the reduced IBR percentages, combined with the option for working at a non-profit to qualify for loan forgiveness, good luck convincing anyone of your "undue hardships". There are tons of lawyers willing to take the money of gullible clients but get back with us when you meet more than one or two individuals that actually had their loan burden eliminated through bankruptcy. The truth of the matter is that with all the assistance programs out there and options for repayment, anyone in the healthcare field seeking bankruptcy to get out of the loans is probably just trying [foolishly] to manipulate the system and the court decisions in these matters usually reflect this fact.
 
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Reading is fundamental, I say you WANTED... past tense.

What's sad is you didn't take any advice, it got you here, and now you still aren't taking their advice, when they were right from the beginning. You jumped right into pharmacy without doing your research. You don't want to work retail? That shows me that you didn't look into the profession at all. How can you just switch like that without experiencing it first?

One thing I don't get about many new prepharmers and even some pharmacy students: why in the world would you pick pharmacy without working in retail?

Again, you are twisting my words around. Not wanting to work retail is just a small part of it. It's the fact that in so many areas, the only options for jobs are exclusively with CVS, the worst retail chain out there. On top of that, it's not like there are a plethora of jobs out there available with even CVS, because in many areas, even CVS is now full at all of their locations except those that are the absolute most impossible to staff. In my area, the only retail position open is at a CVS in the ghetto that hasn't been able to keep a FT pharmacist for more than 2 days.

To put it simply, I'm not willing to move to BFE and I'm not willing to work for CVS. Besides, with the job market heading in the direction it's going in, even those options might not be there in the future.
 
I sadly missed this thread. I see someone still only looks at salary for what they want to do for a living.

I wouldn't compare 90k salary with 140k salary though, huge difference there. That's just base too without incentives and bonus.

Wow, so everyone is really going to fixate on the fact that I mentioned rad tech as a possible backup career choice? I think it's obvious that the posters here just want to find any excuse they can to insist that there's no way my future career/lifestyle could possibly be better than what a miserable pharmacist has to look forward to. Actually, I forgot, some of you actually aren't miserable because you made the decision to take a $20-$30k pay cut to work in hospital or LTC, so now you're happy. How about this -- I'll pursue a career where getting a tolerable job won't require me to take a $30k paycut, and I'll be eligible to start that job sooner than when most chump pharmacy students will be able to look forward to starting to work 60+ hour weeks for $40k as PGY-1s/2s/3s/4s, or in whatever new sham residencies the APhA will be pushing as the latest newfangled gateway to "emerging roles" that don't actually exist outside of their feeble minds (the same minds that claim the saturation will be good, because it makes things better for patients).
 
I'm happy that you're moving on, but I'm not sure why you are turning this into a pharmacist hate thread. I guess if that helps you solidify the decision in your mind then go for it, but there's no need to belittle the people who have been trying to help you from the start.
 
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Wow, so everyone is really going to fixate on the fact that I mentioned rad tech as a possible backup career choice? I think it's obvious that the posters here just want to find any excuse they can to insist that there's no way my future career/lifestyle could possibly be better than what a miserable pharmacist has to look forward to. Actually, I forgot, some of you actually aren't miserable because you made the decision to take a $20-$30k pay cut to work in hospital or LTC, so now you're happy. How about this -- I'll pursue a career where getting a tolerable job won't require me to take a $30k paycut, and I'll be eligible to start that job sooner than when most chump pharmacy students will be able to look forward to starting to work 60+ hour weeks for $40k as PGY-1s/2s/3s/4s, or in whatever new sham residencies the APhA will be pushing as the latest newfangled gateway to "emerging roles" that don't actually exist outside of their feeble minds (the same minds that claim the saturation will be good, because it makes things better for patients).

Why are so you angry lately? Did something happen to you during your hiatus from SDN? Your posts used to be so cheerful & optimistic!!
 
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As a rad tech turned pharmacist, I figure it's my turn to chime in. In my opinion, you will never be happy if you take that career path. Number one, there is zero autonomy. I graduated from X-ray school in 1994, worked my way up over the years and was cross trained in CT and MRI. When I left, I was working at a major university trauma center. I could do the job with my eyes closed, we all could. After seeing literally thousands of scans, your eye jumps to the slightest anomaly and though untrained to diagnose, you know exactly what you are seeing. You spend your life being "just the technologist" as you dial the phone for the attending or resident to speak with the radiologist, who is often someone fresh into their residency doing the preliminary read. The trauma surgeons gather around while you do your magic, then discuss with the radiologist just what you should do next, and you wait for their instruction. You follow strict protocols and ask permission to deviate. In smaller hospitals its common to go get your own patients and transfer the beds/stretchers/wheelchairs down to the rad department yourself, and you'll have little help because most of your coworkers are on "light duty" because they hurt their back on the job 10 years ago.

NMT is another route, and yes the best way is to become a rad tech first so when you hate your job as most people do, you can at least transition into another modality. If you go straight for NMT your are stuck with no alternatives. Radiation therapy and dosimetry are completely different paths, and though related to NMT, that would not be the proper pathway. Rad tech or NMT are specific degrees and do not transfer into a radiation therapy or dosimetry program. Also note that each health system has a limited number of dosimetrists - not a lot of job prospects.

NMT you will hauling around the pharmaceuticals prepared by the radiopharmacist, doing the grunt work and getting the exposure in the room with the patient while the pharmacist is heading home at 2pm. Trust me, I don't know you but from your posts I think you will hate it.

Number two, you will not make the 90k you are talking about. I left radiology when I graduated from pharmacy school in 2016 and it was only my final year that I topped 90k, and this was working permanent weekend nights with a $10/hr shift differential. I graduated from X-ray school in 1994. It took me 22 years of hard work and jumping on every opportunity and undesirable shift to make that money.

I worked full time in CT or MRI for all those years and I loved it because I eventually worked at a great place with coworkers that were like family and a boss that cared. Even then, we all (I mean all of us) hated the job, we just loved hanging out together and got through it. You will be puked on, crapped on, spit at... your regular patients will die before their next appointment.

As a 2016 pharmacy graduate I worked my first paid shift as a pharmacist on the same day my license was granted by the state and I've worked 40+ hours since. I was hired at 40 hours as staff and promoted to RXM 6 months later at $5500 base salary per 2 week pay period. This is 143,000 base with chance for overtime if I choose to work extra shifts, as well as a yearly bonus. The difference between 90k and 143k is living by a strict budget vs doing whatever the heck I want to with minimal worry. Right now I'm waiting for my husband to finish up some work so we can take a last minute 3 day trip to the mountains, just because we feel like it. The difference between 90k and 143k is the same as the difference between 90k and 37k - it's huge.

Beside the money, I'll touch one last time on autonomy and respect. Yes we have to work for places like wags and cvs. I've had my share of the huge teaching hospital scene and want no parts of it as a pharmacist. I like the fast pace of the community pharmacy and the time I have with my techs and patients. Yes, many of the patients are royal pains in the a** and I walk away wishing I could tell them what's truly on my mind (once in awhile I do it in weakness, and it turns out it's not all that satisfying) but this no different from the belligerent drunk blowing chunks into the cracks of my scanner while the person he plowed into with his truck is in critical condition on the adjacent scanner. People suck, and we all need to deal with that. I personally like the balance I have as people ask for my advice and actually take it to heart... In radiology the question is usually followed by "oh never mind, your just the tech." Please take my advice and don't do it, not even as a back up.
 
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Not to beat a dead horse, but I wanted to add one more thing. Discharging student loans in bankruptcy is damn near impossible. From what I've read, the only chance (outside of the academic program shutting down prior to completion) would be someone who is permanently disabled and unable to make a living of any kind. You can't be an able bodied student pursuing other careers and be granted solvency from your prior federal loan mistakes just because you changed your mind and didn't finish. I'm not trying to be mean or sarcastic, just want you to be realistic and not throw good money after bad for bad advice.


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As a rad tech turned pharmacist, I figure it's my turn to chime in. In my opinion, you will never be happy if you take that career path. Number one, there is zero autonomy. I graduated from X-ray school in 1994, worked my way up over the years and was cross trained in CT and MRI. When I left, I was working at a major university trauma center. I could do the job with my eyes closed, we all could. After seeing literally thousands of scans, your eye jumps to the slightest anomaly and though untrained to diagnose, you know exactly what you are seeing. You spend your life being "just the technologist" as you dial the phone for the attending or resident to speak with the radiologist, who is often someone fresh into their residency doing the preliminary read. The trauma surgeons gather around while you do your magic, then discuss with the radiologist just what you should do next, and you wait for their instruction. You follow strict protocols and ask permission to deviate. In smaller hospitals its common to go get your own patients and transfer the beds/stretchers/wheelchairs down to the rad department yourself, and you'll have little help because most of your coworkers are on "light duty" because they hurt their back on the job 10 years ago.

NMT is another route, and yes the best way is to become a rad tech first so when you hate your job as most people do, you can at least transition into another modality. If you go straight for NMT your are stuck with no alternatives. Radiation therapy and dosimetry are completely different paths, and though related to NMT, that would not be the proper pathway. Rad tech or NMT are specific degrees and do not transfer into a radiation therapy or dosimetry program. Also note that each health system has a limited number of dosimetrists - not a lot of job prospects.

NMT you will hauling around the pharmaceuticals prepared by the radiopharmacist, doing the grunt work and getting the exposure in the room with the patient while the pharmacist is heading home at 2pm. Trust me, I don't know you but from your posts I think you will hate it.

Number two, you will not make the 90k you are talking about. I left radiology when I graduated from pharmacy school in 2016 and it was only my final year that I topped 90k, and this was working permanent weekend nights with a $10/hr shift differential. I graduated from X-ray school in 1994. It took me 22 years of hard work and jumping on every opportunity and undesirable shift to make that money.

I worked full time in CT or MRI for all those years and I loved it because I eventually worked at a great place with coworkers that were like family and a boss that cared. Even then, we all (I mean all of us) hated the job, we just loved hanging out together and got through it. You will be puked on, crapped on, spit at... your regular patients will die before their next appointment.

As a 2016 pharmacy graduate I worked my first paid shift as a pharmacist on the same day my license was granted by the state and I've worked 40+ hours since. I was hired at 40 hours as staff and promoted to RXM 6 months later at $5500 base salary per 2 week pay period. This is 143,000 base with chance for overtime if I choose to work extra shifts, as well as a yearly bonus. The difference between 90k and 143k is living by a strict budget vs doing whatever the heck I want to with minimal worry. Right now I'm waiting for my husband to finish up some work so we can take a last minute 3 day trip to the mountains, just because we feel like it. The difference between 90k and 143k is the same as the difference between 90k and 37k - it's huge.

Beside the money, I'll touch one last time on autonomy and respect. Yes we have to work for places like wags and cvs. I've had my share of the huge teaching hospital scene and want no parts of it as a pharmacist. I like the fast pace of the community pharmacy and the time I have with my techs and patients. Yes, many of the patients are royal pains in the a** and I walk away wishing I could tell them what's truly on my mind (once in awhile I do it in weakness, and it turns out it's not all that satisfying) but this no different from the belligerent drunk blowing chunks into the cracks of my scanner while the person he plowed into with his truck is in critical condition on the adjacent scanner. People suck, and we all need to deal with that. I personally like the balance I have as people ask for my advice and actually take it to heart... In radiology the question is usually followed by "oh never mind, your just the tech." Please take my advice and don't do it, not even as a back up.

I appreciate the advice, but keep in mind that my primary goal is to get re-accepted to AA school. The only reason I considered rad tech as a back-up is because if it turns out that I absolutely cannot get accepted to another AA program, then I have absolutely nothing going for me in terms of having a professional, well-paying career, so when you have that kind of perspective, then the prospect of becoming a rad tech (and then potentially a rad therapist and dosimetrist) is appealing as an if-all-else-fails alternative. But like I said, it hopefully won't be an alternative I have to turn to.

Just as you did the income comparison between pharmacists and MRI techs, I like to perform the same kind of comparison for pharmacists and AA's/CRNA's. The few pharmacists I know who were able to get jobs around here (undesirable mid-sized GA city that is already saturated) are starting off at $110k, even in retail (and that's if they can get 40 hrs/week). If someone wants a hospital pharmacist job in my city, it isn't happening; the local hospital network has not hired a single pharmacist in almost 4 years, even from among their own pool of residency program graduates. On the other hand, I know AA/CRNA graduates who are signing on for $140k-$150k and for 6 wks of PTO (the standard for the midlevel anesthesia profession) in Atlanta at desirable hospitals like Grady Memorial and Northside.

Look at it like this: if someone isn't committed to pharmacy because they absolutely want to be a pharmacist, then on an objective level, AA/CRNA is simply a better profession to pursue than pharmacy. It also takes only about half as long to become an AA as it takes to become a pharmacist (and in many cases, half the tuition). So if you look at it like that, doesn't it make sense to jump ship if it can be done, unless someone is absolutely hardcore committed to wanting to be a CVS/Walgreens slave?

To put it another way, becoming an AA would actually be a faster, cheaper, and more prosperous career route. Even someone who thinks they enjoy pharmacy work would do well to consider the feasibility of a career switch.

I also like to consider things like future prospects for any profession I might choose to pursue. As time goes on, it is inevitable that the job market will become more and more saturated, and as I have already said, I'm simply NOT willing to move to a BFE state. It isn't happening. So in a sense, you could make the point that I'm declaring that I won't be willing to do what it takes to get a job in this profession, and if that's the case (and it is), then the only alternative is to do something else.

Another dealbreaker for me in regards to pharmacy is the fact that this profession's leadership is not just apathetic to issues like the job market and the fact that provider status literally cannot become a reality, but they actually seem to be actively working against pharmacists by flat-out denying that there is anything remotely resembling a saturation (the AACP) and by continuing to approve new pharmacy school applications.
 
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I'm speechless...

Good luck.
 
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