The HRSA predicts an oversupply of ~50,000 pharmacists by 2025; similar predictions for NPs/PAs

[Dalteparin]

If a gal has been married 5 times and is on the verge of divorce, the problem is with HER. Absolutely with her. Regardless of how horrible her partners are, there is a psychological reason why SHE is repeatedly picking back partners, and divorcing one bad partner and moving on to the next bad partner won't change anything in HER life. SHE needs to get counseling so SHE can make better choices. PERIOD. This is YOU! Regardless of how wrong pharmacy is for you, "divorcing" pharmacy and moving on to the next bad career choice won't change anything in your life, YOU need to get counseling to figure out how YOU can make better career choices for YOU!

Emphatically seconded! Yes, PAtoPharm the woman in your example should definitely get divorced, but before she even thinks about getting married again, she should get therapy so that she can avoid this situation in the future. A counselor isn't going to tell her, "Well, you should have married Bob instead of Steve, there's your problem!" A good counselor also wouldn't say, "Well, just don't ever get married again, problem solved!" Her counselor is going to help her figure out why she gravitates towards losers and how to spot them early on and prevent this situation from happening again.

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[Spectre of Ockham]

OK first of all horrid avatar , try being a little bit less antisociable , it does wonders for mental health.

Is that the actual persona that is displayed of pharmacists in your (and your peers) mind? Going to war lol... it's simply about saving time and the hassle to change pharmacotherapy (physically having to call you and explain why we need to change a drug/dose/route/etc).

Maybe over the pond you have that problem here in Europe we have to tell the patient to follow our word exactly precisely because pharmacist try to mess it up resulting in therapeutic failure.

Rather than call every resident because they didn't give enough potassium to treat hypokalemia, we could just increase it ourselves...

Not by a mile , you did not diagnose the patient nor do you have the training required to do so. Hypokalemia in a CKD or trauma patient can be a calculated risk

or switch antibiotics/de-escalate therapy when necessary, etc...

God no , you never "switch antibiotics" never without an antibiogram. If needed they can go to a hospital for testing and maybe admission . You don't just swap betalactamines for aminoglycosides and send the patient off to die of sepsis.

it's just about saving time. That is why we want prescriptive authority.

And to save your ass since the market is supersaturated. There are literally more pharmacies than restaurants in most cities. Lets be honest here.

If you saw some of the prescriptions that we see written constantly, you would want it too.

I'd want the licenses suspended for the physician that screws up more than 5 prescriptions per year. I'd go for a lower number but chronic fatigue can play quite a number on people.

Research is an enticing idea, at least for me. I think a majority wouldn't want anything to do with it though.

We are forced to do research and pay it from out own pocket if we even want to be considered for a decent job. Besides you do know chemistry better than us and are more proficient at synthesising new compounds. This is one field where you guys have the upper hand.

There is also plenty of potential for pharmacist to start making again custom made pills. About 20 years ago you could go in with a script in a high end pharmacy and have your active ingredients mixed in by a pharmacist so you would end up with a big ass gel capsule. The management of a chronic condition would become a 2 pills per day sort of thing. While the scope was limited by patents and compound stability it's a service greatly appreciated by doctors and high-class patients alike.

I for one would love to have some tailor made vitamin , mineral and protein mixture for myself and for some other snotty patients. While there will be legitimate concerns about interaction , stability and absorption the market can be quite large. Why let big pharma advertise and score big from generics when doctors and pharmacists can work together for the good of the patient AND for our own profits. Now that's something to lobby for.

 

[PAtoPharm]

With respect, that's not what counseling is. Good therapists don't tell you what to do. They help you develop decision-making and coping skills so that you can choose what's best for you.

Something to keep in mind is that I just honestly don't think there is going to be a "perfect" career for me that satisfies all the criteria I'm looking for, like how becoming a surgeon is the perfect fit for someone who loves actually doing surgery for hours on end and learning procedures (and who wants to make lots of money), writing for a newspaper is a great fit for someone who likes to write for fun and doesn't care about how much money they make, being a professor is the perfect fit for someone who likes to teach stuff to people and who also doesn't really care about how much money they make, etc. I'm pretty sure there is no "this-is-the-perfect-career-for-you" that any counselor would be able to settle on for me, and that I'm going to have to do some accommodating/bending when it comes to choosing any career. Also, what if a counselor says that a certain career would be a good choice for me but it's something I'd have to move to BFE in order to get a job doing? Like I said before, even if it turns out that I just love doing pharmacy work, I would never be willing to move to BFE to do that or any other job. Even if I had not been kicked out of AA school and was actually the top student in the class, I would want to do something else if it became clear that my only hope for getting a job would be if I was willing to move to rural AL, MS, KS, etc.

Either way, I think it is in my best interests to at least apply to AA and PA programs. If I can get accepted to an AA program again and practice more this time, I will graduate in about 2 years and be able to earn $120k-$150k/year with a minimum of 5 weeks of PTO (plus sick days and other benefits) and get a job almost wherever I want -- even in cities like Atlanta and Miami, where pharmacists can't even get jobs anymore because there are simply none left. It will be worth the effort.

 

[PharmDBro2017]

OK first of all horrid avatar , try being a little bit less antisociable , it does wonders for mental health.



Maybe over the pond you have that problem here in Europe we have to tell the patient to follow our word exactly precisely because pharmacist try to mess it up resulting in therapeutic failure.



Not by a mile , you did not diagnose the patient nor do you have the training required to do so. Hypokalemia in a CKD or trauma patient can be a calculated risk



God no , you never "switch antibiotics" never without an antibiogram. If needed they can go to a hospital for testing and maybe admission . You don't just swap betalactamines for aminoglycosides and send the patient off to die of sepsis.



And to save your ass since the market is supersaturated. There are literally more pharmacies than restaurants in most cities. Lets be honest here.



I'd want the licenses suspended for the physician that screws up more than 5 prescriptions per year. I'd go for a lower number but chronic fatigue can play quite a number on people.



We are forced to do research and pay it from out own pocket if we even want to be considered for a decent job. Besides you do know chemistry better than us and are more proficient at synthesising new compounds. This is one field where you guys have the upper hand.

There is also plenty of potential for pharmacist to start making again custom made pills. About 20 years ago you could go in with a script in a high end pharmacy and have your active ingredients mixed in by a pharmacist so you would end up with a big ass gel capsule. The management of a chronic condition would become a 2 pills per day sort of thing. While the scope was limited by patents and compound stability it's a service greatly appreciated by doctors and high-class patients alike.

I for one would love to have some tailor made vitamin , mineral and protein mixture for myself and for some other snotty patients. While there will be legitimate concerns about interaction , stability and absorption the market can be quite large. Why let big pharma advertise and score big from generics when doctors and pharmacists can work together for the good of the patient AND for our own profits. Now that's something to lobby for.

The avatar is from a video game, so rather than act like a prick and try to infer that I'm antisocial...why don't you focus on the discussion?

For one, we are not diagnosing, and we sure as hell don't want to. You are doing the diagnosing. We are the drug experts and should be able to change therapy when applicable, based upon your diagnosis and recommendations. Example (I'll reiterate since you didn't grasp the simplicity of it): cmp shows patient's potassium at 2.8 and resident wants to give a one time dose of 20mEq thinking that will solve the problem, hence my example. Instead of me calling and telling him to correct the magnesium and also explain the need for more potassium, I'd rather fix it and monitor from there. That is simply reading a lab and going by the physicians prior diagnosis.... don't spin this into something that it is not. I'm talking about standard hypokalemia, not CKD/trauma/etc. whatever wild place your mind is going. That was one example from a hospital stand point. In retail, I think it would be even more applicable in regards to changing therapy based on cost/insurance of the patient.

Your comment on switching antibiotics had me laughing. Do you never de-escalate empiric therapy after getting culture/sensitivity back? That is what I mean "switching" antibiotics. Ofc you use the antibiogram to guide decisions...what year are you in med school?

 

[beautifulrobot]

OK first of all horrid avatar , try being a little bit less antisociable , it does wonders for mental health.



Maybe over the pond you have that problem here in Europe we have to tell the patient to follow our word exactly precisely because pharmacist try to mess it up resulting in therapeutic failure.



Not by a mile , you did not diagnose the patient nor do you have the training required to do so. Hypokalemia in a CKD or trauma patient can be a calculated risk



God no , you never "switch antibiotics" never without an antibiogram. If needed they can go to a hospital for testing and maybe admission . You don't just swap betalactamines for aminoglycosides and send the patient off to die of sepsis.



And to save your ass since the market is supersaturated. There are literally more pharmacies than restaurants in most cities. Lets be honest here.



I'd want the licenses suspended for the physician that screws up more than 5 prescriptions per year. I'd go for a lower number but chronic fatigue can play quite a number on people.



We are forced to do research and pay it from out own pocket if we even want to be considered for a decent job. Besides you do know chemistry better than us and are more proficient at synthesising new compounds. This is one field where you guys have the upper hand.

There is also plenty of potential for pharmacist to start making again custom made pills. About 20 years ago you could go in with a script in a high end pharmacy and have your active ingredients mixed in by a pharmacist so you would end up with a big ass gel capsule. The management of a chronic condition would become a 2 pills per day sort of thing. While the scope was limited by patents and compound stability it's a service greatly appreciated by doctors and high-class patients alike.

I for one would love to have some tailor made vitamin , mineral and protein mixture for myself and for some other snotty patients. While there will be legitimate concerns about interaction , stability and absorption the market can be quite large. Why let big pharma advertise and score big from generics when doctors and pharmacists can work together for the good of the patient AND for our own profits. Now that's something to lobby for.

The avatar is from a video game, so rather than act like a prick and try to infer that I'm antisocial...why don't you focus on the discussion?

For one, we are not diagnosing, and we sure as hell don't want to. You are doing the diagnosing. We are the drug experts and should be able to change therapy when applicable, based upon your diagnosis and recommendations. Example (I'll reiterate since you didn't grasp the simplicity of it): cmp shows patient's potassium at 2.8 and resident wants to give a one time dose of 20mEq thinking that will solve the problem, hence my example. Instead of me calling and telling him to correct the magnesium and also explain the need for more potassium, I'd rather fix it and monitor from there. That is simply reading a lab and going by the physicians prior diagnosis.... don't spin this into something that it is not. I'm talking about standard hypokalemia, not CKD/trauma/etc. whatever wild place your mind is going. That was one example from a hospital stand point. In retail, I think it would be even more applicable in regards to changing therapy based on cost/insurance of the patient.

Your comment on switching antibiotics had me laughing. Do you never de-escalate empiric therapy after getting culture/sensitivity back? That is what I mean "switching" antibiotics. Ofc you use the antibiogram to guide decisions...what year are you in med school?

Thank you. I was wondering the same thing in terms of what year in med school this guy is in... like has he even met a clinical pharmacist yet? Many pharmacists already do this kind of work in institutions that actually have their **** together enough to allow pharmacists to use their clinical knowledge, especially in regards to antibiotic stewardship.

Also that part about synthesizing compounds... I'd say I am a pretty decent pharmacist and I don't know **** about synthesizing new compounds. The closest I ever got to synthesizing anything was when I made ketamine troches during a compounding pharmacy rotation, but I felt more like a candy maker than a compound synthesizer.

In other words, @Spectre of Ockham, you might want to reexamine your perception of pharmacy practice in the United States, it doesn't seem to be very on point.

 

[Dalteparin]

I'm pretty sure there is no "this-is-the-perfect-career-for-you" that any counselor would be able to settle on for me, and that I'm going to have to do some accommodating/bending when it comes to choosing any career. Also, what if a counselor says that a certain career would be a good choice for me but it's something I'd have to move to BFE in order to get a job doing?

Again, that is not what counselors do. A good counselor will not tell you which career you should pursue. They'll help you develop coping and decision-making skills and learn to identify your strengths and weaknesses so that you are able to make that decision on your own.

 

[bulldog1123]

When are people going to get that they will not get through to him and stop wasting their time and breath?

 

[PAtoPharm]

When are people going to get that they will not get through to him and stop wasting their time and breath?

Sure, you can act like I'm simply mouthing off with baseless presumptions about the job market and that I just don't get it, but in a few years, we'll see whose perspective will have been proven to be accurate. That's the beauty of this whole situation; when the saturation is projected to be as severe as it's going to become, the "trash talk" thrown around on some online message board won't make a difference when reality proves me right (and I wish that I could end up being wrong, but I don't think that's going to be the case).

 

[PAtoPharm]

Again, that is not what counselors do. A good counselor will not tell you which career you should pursue. They'll help you develop coping and decision-making skills and learn to identify your strengths and weaknesses so that you are able to make that decision on your own.

Maybe I would end up being proven wrong about this, but the way I see it is that by using whatever thought process a counselor would help me develop, I could only possibly come to conclusion that I will need to settle for a lower-paying "blue collar" job, simply because the only guaranteed high-paying jobs are in the medical field. Even if they tell me that healthcare jobs in general are not a good fit for me, I would still end up applying to AA/PA/DO programs (even to my own detriment), simply because I'm not willing to pursue a field paying the standard $25k-$40k, especially since I'd probably have to go back to school to train for one of those careers as well.

 

[bulldog1123]

Sure, you can act like I'm simply mouthing off with baseless presumptions about the job market and that I just don't get it, but in a few years, we'll see whose perspective will have been proven to be accurate. That's the beauty of this whole situation; when the saturation is projected to be as severe as it's going to become, the "trash talk" thrown around on some online message board won't make a difference when reality proves me right (and I wish that I could end up being wrong, but I don't think that's going to be the case).

This is why I'm stopped wasting my time. You keep missing the point people are making to you or choosing to ignore it. I've never once denied the saturation and agree with you in that case whole heartedly. Go back through our private conversation and you'll see where I said it worries me greatly too. But of course make me the enemy and ignore everything else others have advised you. It's what got you into this situation in the first place. You would think your multiple errors would check your ego a bit but that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[wagrxm2000]

Sure, you can act like I'm simply mouthing off with baseless presumptions about the job market and that I just don't get it, but in a few years, we'll see whose perspective will have been proven to be accurate. That's the beauty of this whole situation; when the saturation is projected to be as severe as it's going to become, the "trash talk" thrown around on some online message board won't make a difference when reality proves me right (and I wish that I could end up being wrong, but I don't think that's going to be the case).

No one is denying the saturation that is occurring.

 

[owlegrad]

Even if they tell me that healthcare jobs in general are not a good fit for me

How many times do you have to hear that that is not what a therapist does? You are either dense or trolling.


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[Dalteparin]

Maybe I would end up being proven wrong about this, but the way I see it is that by using whatever thought process a counselor would help me develop, I could only possibly come to conclusion that I will need to settle for a lower-paying "blue collar" job, simply because the only guaranteed high-paying jobs are in the medical field.

Healthcare jobs are not the only jobs that pay well, and this has also been discussed ad nauseam here - including in your threads. Besides, how can you know what thought process a counselor will help you develop when you've not only never been to counseling but had to have it described to you by a bunch of strangers on a message board???

I give up. I'm putting you back on Ignore. You're obviously determined to ruin your life*, and while that genuinely makes me sad, I also realize it's a waste of my time to continue to try to get through to you. Maybe you need to hit "rock bottom" before you realize you need to change. Please go back and carefully re-read what BidingMyTime and I have told you and give serious thought to making some of these changes before you try professional school again. Good luck.

*unless you're a troll, and I can't help but wonder if you are

 

[bulldog1123]

How many times do you have to hear that that is not what a therapist does? You are either dense or trolling.


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Case and point. He's been told that 3-4 times and keeps beating around the bush.

 

[gwarm01]

How many times do you have to hear that that is not what a therapist does? You are either dense or trolling.


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This is what I'm starting to think. Especially the latest trend of pretending like everyone here thinks there is no saturation.

 

[Spectre of Ockham]

especially in regards to antibiotic stewardship.

We have a bloody vancomycin resistant c. diff epidemic and you want more power to screw things up ? Hell no , unless you're willing to go into the PT's room and risk getting infected yourself you're not getting the ability to prescribe antibiotics without an antibiogram. It's not a matter of "competence" it's simple protocol. As matter of fact we should be revoking antibiotic carpet bombing ability from quite a few incompetent doctors.

When your ass is on the line exposed to what can be another antibiotic resistant strain of n. meningitidis and you are responsible for the cases oftherapeutic failure then you can prescribe all you want.

 

[Niosh]

the ability to prescribe antibiotics without an antibiogram

I don't think you read what they posted.

 

[PharmtoCS]

simply because the only guaranteed high-paying jobs are in the medical field.

Someone hasn't been reading my posts about computer programming, engineering, or finance. And no, the medical field is not a guarantee of a high paying job.

 

[PAtoPharm]

I know that a counselor isn't going to tell me to specifically pursue or not pursue a certain career; I was just making the point that regardless of what they tell me, I have a strong feeling that the end result will still be me having to come to the realization that healthcare just isn't the best fit for me (based on whatever sort of deductive/thought "algorithm" they give me, or whatever you call it).

Someone hasn't been reading my posts about computer programming, engineering, or finance. And no, the medical field is not a guarantee of a high paying job.

If I was better at math, I would definitely look into engineering, but I know I'm just not cut out for something like that. I guess computer programming might work, but I don't know much about that field. For finance, I'm pretty sure I'd have to move somewhere to get a job with upward mobility in that field, but maybe not (maybe CPA would be a good choice, since most people fail the tests you have to take to become one?). Regardless, any of those fields would require going back to undergrad for at least 3 more years, whereas I could finish AA/PA school in even less time than that and be earning $120k-$140k and 5-7 weeks of PTO as soon as I finish (less for PA school but still a good deal). If I was a more competitive student, dental school would be the best choice (there is even a 3-year program in CA), but with dental school being even more competitive to get accepted to than medical school, it's just not even realistic to think about.

 

[Sine Cura]

We are just rehashing the same themes over and over. You know what to do, and no one else can live your life, so do it

 

[steveysmith54]

I think we can all conclude and agree that pharmacy is a terrible fit for you. This decision to enter pharmacy school has been a loss for all parties involved...

Everything related to your decision has been covered and discussed to nauseam that no longer responds to zofran Iv...

The only thing that is left to be determined is if you will gain admission to AA/pa/ etc school... some of us are curious. Please update us... there is absolutely nothing further to discuss in this thread other than you admission status (once that is available).

 

[neuropathic]

I am going to just say this for the record after reading some posts by PAtoPharm. If I am on the admission committee for any health related professional schools, I would never accept this guy. He does not seem like he knows what he wants in a healthcare career other than focusing on jobs and money. I wish him the best, but I am not optimistic to see another potential healthcare colleague with his attitude and lack of focus.

 

[steveysmith54]

I am going to just say this for the record after reading some posts by PAtoPharm. If I am on the admission committee for any health related professional schools, I would never accept this guy. He does not seem like he knows what he wants in a healthcare career other than focusing on jobs and money. I wish him the best, but I am not optimistic to see another potential healthcare colleague with his attitude and lack of focus.

mentioned this before, as have others. Which is why I firmly believe that all topics have been exhausted to a level of nauseam. But, you will get at least a three paragraph response from PAtoPharmD in regards to your statement.

 

[PAtoPharm]

This is what I'm starting to think. Especially the latest trend of pretending like everyone here thinks there is no saturation.

No, what I keep arguing about with people is not that they think the job market isn't becoming saturated (I know they realize it is), but what I'm disputing are the statements being made that as long as a pharmacy student works during school and networks well, they won't have to worry about not having a job when they graduate. The point that I tried to make is that the oversupply is projected to be so severe that even if just half the pharmacy students in the country did that, there would still be thousands of unemployed pharmacists even among that group of "hustling" students. I think you actually agreed with me on that point, though. On the other hand, other posters argue the point with me and tell me that if I work as an intern and network well, I just won't have to worry about it. Then I return to the original point that with upwards of 70,000 more pharmacists being graduated than there are jobs, even a substantial proportion of those students who work hard will be unemployed. It's like running in a circle, but it's everyone else who accuses me of perpetuating it like I'm the one who just doesn't get it.

BTW, here's another point to keep in mind that I don't think I've made yet. Even if every single student who hustles during school DOES get a job when they graduate, they're still going to be severely limited in terms of where they'll find that job, since at least two regions of the country are now beyond saturated, even according to the ACPE's ADI reports (which are supposedly just pro-pharmacy propaganda). Prior to the most recent ADI report that was published a week or two ago, only the northeast was saturated, which has been the case for a few years; but now, according to the most recent ADI, the southeast is now either totally saturated as well or heading in that direction (unless you want Moultrie, GA, Waycross, GA, or Nashville, GA, or maybe Brewton, AL). So even those who are successful in the hustle are going to most likely be relegated to finding a job in a rural midwest community when they graduate in 2020, assuming that region of the country hasn't become saturated by that point as well.

 

[allantois]

OP, you should see a counselor. You have anxiety issues over living your life, finding employment, being in a relationship, etc - and it is severely affecting your life. I think you know it yourself, otherwise why would you keep starting all these personal threads.

 

[PharmDBro2017]

Now PAtoPharm2PA is acting like we're all out to get him and not admitting the saturation, yawn. Thread has gone full circle multiple times, inb4 the lock.

 

[Z-Qualizer]

No, what I keep arguing about with people is not that they think the job market isn't becoming saturated (I know they realize it is), but what I'm disputing are the statements being made that as long as a pharmacy student works during school and networks well, they won't have to worry about not having a job when they graduate. The point that I tried to make is that the oversupply is projected to be so severe that even if just half the pharmacy students in the country did that, there would still be thousands of unemployed pharmacists even among that group of "hustling" students. I think you actually agreed with me on that point, though. On the other hand, other posters argue the point with me and tell me that if I work as an intern and network well, I just won't have to worry about it. Then I return to the original point that with upwards of 70,000 more pharmacists being graduated than there are jobs, even a substantial proportion of those students who work hard will be unemployed. It's like running in a circle, but it's everyone else who accuses me of perpetuating it like I'm the one who just doesn't get it.

BTW, here's another point to keep in mind that I don't think I've made yet. Even if every single student who hustles during school DOES get a job when they graduate, they're still going to be severely limited in terms of where they'll find that job, since at least two regions of the country are now beyond saturated, even according to the ACPE's ADI reports (which are supposedly just pro-pharmacy propaganda). Prior to the most recent ADI report that was published a week or two ago, only the northeast was saturated, which has been the case for a few years; but now, according to the most recent ADI, the southeast is now either totally saturated as well or heading in that direction (unless you want Moultrie, GA, Waycross, GA, or Nashville, GA, or maybe Brewton, AL). So even those who are successful in the hustle are going to most likely be relegated to finding a job in a rural midwest community when they graduate in 2020, assuming that region of the country hasn't become saturated by that point as well.

Have you ever thought about going in a different direction completely, and becoming a writer? Seriously, if you're this verbose in posts on an online forum, I wonder what you could do on another platform? I bet when you were taking general ed courses in English and the humanities, 10+ page papers were pretty easy for you?

 

[PAtoPharm]

Have you ever thought about going in a different direction completely, and becoming a writer? Seriously, if you're this verbose in posts on an online forum, I wonder what you could do on another platform? I bet when you were taking general ed courses in English and the humanities, 10+ page papers were pretty easy for you?

No way, I am just long-winded like that in real life. Also, I feel like I have to justify most of the things I say, so some of my posts end up being pretty long. I would never consider becoming a professional writer because of the traditionally low pay. Also, I believe the BLS has even worse job market projections for writers than they do for pharmacists. Either way, I'm just not interested in it and would do something like the NMT program before I became a writer. I didn't and still don't enjoy writing papers for school. Even in pharmacy school, I put them off until the last minute and sometimes turn them in minutes before the deadline.

 

[Z-Qualizer]

No way, I am just long-winded like that in real life. Also, I feel like I have to justify most of the things I say, so some of my posts end up being pretty long. I would never consider becoming a professional writer because of the traditionally low pay. Also, I believe the BLS has even worse job market projections for writers than they do for pharmacists. Either way, I'm just not interested in it and would do something like the NMT program before I became a writer. I didn't and still don't enjoy writing papers for school. Even in pharmacy school, I put them off until the last minute and sometimes turn them in minutes before the deadline.

That's too bad... will you at least start a blog then, so people can follow your journey?

 

[PAtoPharm]

That's too bad... will you at least start a blog then, so people can follow your journey?

I doubt it. But why do you say that it's too bad that I don't want to be a writer? Isn't it almost an insult to advise someone to pursue a writing career when they've already made it known that they want to do something more lucrative?

 

[bulldog1123]

I doubt it. But why do you say that it's too bad that I don't want to be a writer? Isn't it almost an insult to advise someone to pursue a writing career when they've already made it known that they want to do something more lucrative?

Jesus dude, the man is simply complementing your writing skills. Its not an insult and I'm not even sure how you twisted that to take it that way. Even I think you need to hit up that counselor now.

 

[steveysmith54]

Lol... guy was admiring your writing skills, implying that it's a gift... you interpret that as an "insult". Another reason this thread should be locked

 

[PharmDBro2017]

Surprised you didn't list the top 10% of writers incomes, like you do for all other professions... you seem to love focusing on how APN, PA, AA all make more than we do. Why not throw writers in there too?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[PAtoPharm]

I didn't actually take it as a literal insult; it just seemed like a career suggestion that is so far off-target from the ones that offer the factors I'm looking for that I was surprised it would occur to someone to mention it.

 

[PAtoPharm]

Surprised you didn't list the top 10% of writers incomes, like you do for all other professions... you seem to love focusing on how APN, PA, AA all make more than we do. Why not throw writers in there too?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

If you are implying that I only compare pharmacists' incomes to what the top 10% earners in those other professions make, then here you go -- just check out the generic search page featuring every currently-posted AA job:

http://www.gaswork.com/search/Anesthesiologist-Assistants/Job/All

As you can see, there's no cherry-picking here. Many of the jobs don't list any salary info, but if you notice, most of the jobs offering salaries on the lower end (~$120k) are either for jobs in lower-stress outpatient clinics, or for jobs in more desirable areas. At least AAs (and general PAs as well) can actually GET jobs in desirable areas still... for pharmacists, the jobs simply aren't there anymore, regardless of wage.

 

[quickpic007]

If you are implying that I only compare pharmacists' incomes to what the top 10% earners in those other professions make, then here you go -- just check out the generic search page featuring every currently-posted AA job:

http://www.gaswork.com/search/Anesthesiologist-Assistants/Job/All

As you can see, there's no cherry-picking here. Many of the jobs don't list any salary info, but if you notice, most of the jobs offering salaries on the lower end (~$120k) are either for jobs in lower-stress outpatient clinics, or for jobs in more desirable areas. At least AAs (and general PAs as well) can actually GET jobs in desirable areas still... for pharmacists, the jobs simply aren't there anymore, regardless of wage.

https://www.peacecorps.gov/

Have you ever considered joining the peace corps? Awesome chance to help others and grow as an individual

 

[Sine Cura]

what I'm disputing are the statements being made that as long as a pharmacy student works during school and networks well, they won't have to worry about not having a job when they graduate. The point that I tried to make is that the oversupply is projected to be so severe that even if just half the pharmacy students in the country did that, there would still be thousands of unemployed pharmacists even among that group of "hustling" students

Working and networking is the bare minimum to make yourself viable for any solid career. Not doing this puts you at a huge disadvantage because "everyone else" does it. Doing this is necessary but not even close to sufficient these days. And yes it probably won't matter for a lot of grads...

If you are good and impress the right people then it should be easier to find work (no guarantees). But yes the ROI for pharmacy is getting worse and worse.

 

[PAtoPharm]

Working and networking is the bare minimum to make yourself viable for any solid career. Not doing this puts you at a huge disadvantage because "everyone else" does it. Doing this is necessary but not even close to sufficient these days. And yes it probably won't matter for a lot of grads...

If you are good and impress the right people then it should be easier to find work (no guarantees). But yes the ROI for pharmacy is getting worse and worse.

Finally, someone who gets where I'm coming from and understands the point I was making, which is that there simply can't/won't be enough spots to accommodate everyone. Also, I was just musing on something earlier today... even if someone has years of experience working as a pharmacy tech and truly loves pharmacy work, what if they also couldn't imagine having to move to the rural midwest to work as a pharmacist? On the one hand, the passion for pharmacy is there, but at the same time, location quotient is a very significant lifestyle factor for that person -- so the question is, which of those elements weighs heavier for the person? To keep this post succinct, that's the other simple point I was trying to make, which is that location restrictions can be a deal-breaker for pharmacy (or any career), depending on how much of a premium someone places on where they can (or have to, as in the case of modern pharmacy) live.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

I think OP is actually an artifical intelligence deployed to test reaction from people. The fixation on the money and job market and repetition in his writing suggest that.

 

[PAtoPharm]

I think OP is actually an artifical intelligence deployed to test reaction from people. The fixation on the money and job market and repetition in his writing suggest that.

I wish!! Unless it's really smart, an AI wouldn't have any perception or opinion of the situation it's gotten itself into. It would simply be indifferent to everything.

 

[PAtoPharm]

I think OP is actually an artifical intelligence deployed to test reaction from people. The fixation on the money and job market and repetition in his writing suggest that.

Tell me something here. I'm just randomly curious about this, but when it comes to matching into an ultra-competitive residency like orthopedic surgery, do those students either have a.) photographic memories, or b.) study for 10-12 hours per day outside of class to maintain that class rank?

Just wondering because a few of the people I went to undergrad with who went to medical school just posted on FB/Instagram about the residencies they matched into, and a couple of them matched into orthopedic surgery, so I'm wondering how much of it was effort vs. natural intelligence.

 

[PharmDBro2017]

I wish!! Unless it's really smart, an AI wouldn't have any perception or opinion of the situation it's gotten itself into. It would simply be indifferent to everything.

Never seen Ex Machina? C'mon man.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Tell me something here. I'm just randomly curious about this, but when it comes to matching into an ultra-competitive residency like orthopedic surgery, do those students either have a.) photographic memories, or b.) study for 10-12 hours per day outside of class to maintain that class rank?

Just wondering because a few of the people I went to undergrad with who went to medical school just posted on FB/Instagram about the residencies they matched into, and a couple of them matched into orthopedic surgery, so I'm wondering how much of it was effort vs. natural intelligence.

Natural intelligence alone isn't enough but without natural intelligence no amount of effort will get you those.

 

[PAtoPharm]

Natural intelligence alone isn't enough but without natural intelligence no amount of effort will get you those.

That's one of the things that gets me down more and more every day. When I was an undergrad student (and even now in pharmacy school), I always made pretty good grades, but it took (and still takes) so much more effort, even more than some of the students who make even higher grades than me. I'm one of those people who studies and studies something to try and memorize it, but even when I think I've "got it," I wake up the next day and maybe 20% of what I studied has stuck. On the other hand, I had a few undergrad classmates who studied probably about half as much as I did (which would still be a fair amount of studying), but their 2.5 days of half-assed studying would get them a 98-100, while I would be lucky to get an 88-92 out of my 5-6 days of intense studying.

That's why I decided to go to AA school in the first place instead of medical school. I knew that with my performance ability (I.e., how much study time does it take me to memorize X amount of material), I would most likely match into a primary care residency like FP or IM, and I also knew that I didn't really want to be one of those kinds of physicians, so I figured I might as well go to AA school and graduate and make as much (or almost as much) as what a primary care doctor makes, but for only 40 hours a week and for more vacation time than the doctor gets. I don't think I would want to be an orthopedic surgeon anyways, but it sucks to know that my potential level of achievement in medical school would be so much more limited as compared to most of the other students and there's nothing I can do about it.

 

[ldiot]

So are you in pharmacy school now or what you are doing?

 

[PAtoPharm]

So are you in pharmacy school now or what you are doing?

Looks like I'll be finishing up this semester and moving on to whatever I can get accepted to. I'm waiting to hear back this week from my top-choice AA program about whether I will be eligible to apply. If all else fails, I will get a BS degree to become a Nuclear Med. Tech. At this point, the job market for pharmacists is so abysmal that literally almost anything else I have a shot at getting into is a better choice. Did you see the other thread where someone posted about how even pharmacists who worked as interns during school are competing against each other at job interviews? There just aren't enough spots to accommodate everyone, and it's only going to get worse. It's simple math.

Check out the latest ADI stats below, in case you didn't see them when they were first published a couple weeks ago:

PDI

Look at all the states that have been added to the 2.5-2.99 category (more pharmacists than demand) within the last 6 months alone. Imagine how bad the next set set of ADI stats will be when they're released in a couple months (assuming they resume the standard publishing schedule instead of waiting another 6-8 months).

 

[gwarm01]

Looks like I'll be finishing up this semester and moving on to whatever I can get accepted to. I'm waiting to hear back this week from my top-choice AA program about whether I will be eligible to apply. If all else fails, I will get a BS degree to become a Nuclear Med. Tech. At this point, the job market for pharmacists is so abysmal that literally almost anything else I have a shot at getting into is a better choice. Did you see the other thread where someone posted about how even pharmacists who worked as interns during school are competing against each other at job interviews? There just aren't enough spots to accommodate everyone, and it's only going to get worse. It's simple math.

Check out the latest ADI stats below, in case you didn't see them when they were first published a couple weeks ago:

PDI

Look at all the states that have been added to the 2.5-2.99 category (more pharmacists than demand) within the last 6 months alone. Imagine how bad the next set set of ADI stats will be when they're released in a couple months (assuming they resume the standard publishing schedule instead of waiting another 6-8 months).

Feel free to prove me wrong, but the last time I checked the job market for nuclear med techs is way worse than for pharmacists.

 

[PAtoPharm]

So one of the PA schools I am looking at applying to would most likely make me re-take most of my pre-reqs (gen bio 1 and 2, gen chem 1 and 2, organic chem 1 and 2, statistics) since they have "expiration dates" on how long ago the classes could have been taken and my classes are too old. Maybe they'll make an exception for me, but I doubt it. Looks like I might be stuck with applying to AA schools since most of them don't have these kinds of limitations on how old pre-reqs can be.

 

[bulldog1123]

So one of the PA schools I am looking at applying to would most likely make me re-take most of my pre-reqs (gen bio 1 and 2, gen chem 1 and 2, organic chem 1 and 2, statistics) since they have "expiration dates" on how long ago the classes could have been taken and my classes are too old. Maybe they'll make an exception for me, but I doubt it. Looks like I might be stuck with applying to AA schools since most of them don't have these kinds of limitations on how old pre-reqs can be.

Does that apply to all PA schools though? Maybe you can expand your range for PA schools so it will include schools that do not place an expiration date on their classes. I can only assume, but I wouldnt think your pre-reqs are more the 10 years old (im guess 4-6 year range). If so, that's pretty surprising that they wont take classes that far back. It doesnt seem like much and it isnt like the material has changed.

 

[PAtoPharm]

Does that apply to all PA schools though? Maybe you can expand your range for PA schools so it will include schools that do not place an expiration date on their classes. I can only assume, but I wouldnt think your pre-reqs are more the 10 years old (im guess 4-6 year range). If so, that's pretty surprising that they wont take classes that far back. It doesnt seem like much and it isnt like the material has changed.

I guess I'll have no choice but to apply to more PA schools. Believe it or not, some of my pre-reqs really are 10 years old (or older) now, since I took some of them immediately after I graduated from high school during my first semester of college. Keep in mind, I'm pushing 30 over here.