Terminated from residency - need advice!

[hallowmann]

His wife, or a woman with his last name is also an intern at SUNY Upstate.

I'm just trying to understand the logic of setting up a camera in the bathroom to catch an Adderall thief. What is the likelihood that the thief is even going to dose himself in that bathroom? And even if you catch someone taking pills, how are you supposed to tell if it's Adderall or Zyrtec? And you're going to sift through hours of video every day to try to capture this? On an ICU rotation?

Assuming that was the reason for setting up the camera (and it doesn't really pass the smell test), I don't think poor judgment is the only problem here.

So apparently he found the empty pill bottle in the trash, was taking it for ADHD, and was an investigative journalist before med school. It was certainly stupid, but with that info I could actually believe he did it after being sleep deprived (ICU rotation), off his meds, and with his history and the fact it wasn't pointed to the stalls or had any illicit content in it. Definitely extended lapse in judgement, but I buy his story.

How does someone have time and money to set up surveillance like that?

Those things are cheap, like $15-$20. He was clearly obsessed with the idea of the theft and he was an investigative journalist prior to med school, so it was probably a bit of a hobby of his. Crazy idea, and most would have the foresight not to do it. Apparently he also had one on/near his bag as well.

Sounds like he is probably a perv. Who plants cameras in the bathroom to try to catch a thief-that doesn't even make sense if it didnt display incredibly bad judgement. Sounds like that ER doc that masturbated into a patient's face and claimed the semen got there because he masturbated right before the exam and didnt wash his hands before examining her....

I feel way worse for the resident who got fired because someone used his login to access a celebrity health record. That sounds plausible (we probably all forget to log off once in a while).

Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

See above. It wasn't pointed into stalls or at angles/locations that would have caught illicit images. The police said it didn't contain anything like that. He's still stupid for it, but I could buy someone doing something stupid like that without thinking. I mean just look at youtube.

she might be able to appeal this i would think...after all no charges were filed against her and it was an episode outside of the hospital and she wasn't on duty...sounds like she should have to undergo anger management or some sort of remediation...even if they ding her for being unprofessional, it seems that it could be a probation issue...but even if she finished being able to be employed somewhere would be difficult.

I imagine she probably already went through the appeals process given how much time has passed. What got her was the bad press of it all. People really went crazy over the idea of an "entitled" DOCTOR acting childish. Doctors aren't people after all, they don't make mistakes or do stupid things.

Well a one-provider office is going to have lots of people wearing multiple hats. So you're technically correct, but those tiny practices are far outnumbered by larger practices and employed groups these days. That would be the type of setting to discuss him aiming for. But, I doubt someone with this history is hireable by a medical practice, front desk or no, so it's all a moo point.

As in a cow's opinion, right? Sorry, had to do it:

ok, just got up to speed on the neuro resident video firing

lol... America forgives drunks. Yes it does. In fact, I already forgive this girl.

Looks like she started it, and sure, none of what she does is OK, but I would like to point out, how the heck did the guy end up outside the car and restraining her hands? sure she's drunk and belligerent, but that's exactly why that presumably sober dude shouldn't be laying hands on her
she walks off and he follows her!

granted, just because somebody "starts" with you, doesn't mean you should "finish" it, a lesson both the Uber driver and the resident clearly didn't have in mind
granted she's drunk, caught on tape, and had more to lose than he did, but seeing that dude grabbing her hands and shoving her just sat wrong with me

EDIT: did she put the dent in his car? if so whoa
still, I still don't know that you can then use that to justify physically restraining someone... my friend is a prosecutor, and he said the smart thing is to just leave to a safe location, you can't use vandalism or destruction of property as an excuse

Yeah, no, its a very long video and she caused a lot of damage and assaulted him multiple times. He was actually very restrained in his response. Part of that was probably because she's 100 lb and 5 ft tall.

God residency must be stressful if he can't even wait to go home to do it

Dude, that was so messed up. He like drove around town, then called women over to the car while he was doing it. Crazy. And wayyy too close to where I live. What the heck is going on?

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[22031 Alum]

As in a cow's opinion, right? Sorry, had to do it:

I say "moo point" as often as possible in real life as well. Senior residents roll their eyes while the new interns or students ask "Moo point, Dr. Alum??" and set up the quote perfectly. I'm that attending. I'm not sorry about it.


Anyway, I was on the side of "severe thought disorder." On the surface, it doesn't make much sense to only film a bathroom sink to catch someone taking pills, which they could do anywhere. But you would think that disorganized a thought process would have manifested in med school or residency to this point. The combination of the "clue" and the investigative journalism background makes it appear to be more of a severe lapse in judgement- though again, I'm surprised that type of thing didn't get found out earlier.

 

[hallowmann]

I say "moo point" as often as possible in real life as well. Senior residents roll their eyes while the new interns or students ask "Moo point, Dr. Alum??" and set up the quote perfectly. I'm that attending. I'm not sorry about it.


Anyway, I was on the side of "severe thought disorder." On the surface, it doesn't make much sense to only film a bathroom sink to catch someone taking pills, which they could do anywhere. But you would think that disorganized a thought process would have manifested in med school or residency to this point. The combination of the "clue" and the investigative journalism background makes it appear to be more of a severe lapse in judgement- though again, I'm surprised that type of thing didn't get found out earlier.

No time or money for cameras when he was at UNECOM I guess. I also suspect that this may have been one of the first times something important to him was stolen. He was doing a rotation at a site (he hadn't been to before?), and apparently the hospital is known by staff for having stuff stolen.

 

[cookymonster]

How do you know all this stuff that isn't in the news stories? Where he went to medical school, where he found the Adderall bottle, and the theft at Crouse Hospital?

Another curious unexplained fact is how the cop recognized his apartment in the video cam.

 

[RadOncDoc21]

How do you know all this stuff that isn't in the news stories? Where he went to medical school, where he found the Adderall bottle, and the theft at Crouse Hospital?

Another curious unexplained fact is how the cop recognized his apartment in the video cam.

Reminds me of the documentary, Making a murderer.

 

[DrBowtie]

How do you know all this stuff that isn't in the news stories? Where he went to medical school, where he found the Adderall bottle, and the theft at Crouse Hospital?

Another curious unexplained fact is how the cop recognized his apartment in the video cam.

Thought I read they interviewed him once and he denied then interviewed a second time. Perhaps they recognized his apt from the first interview.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

How do you know all this stuff that isn't in the news stories? Where he went to medical school, where he found the Adderall bottle, and the theft at Crouse Hospital?

Another curious unexplained fact is how the cop recognized his apartment in the video cam.

Yeah that part had me wondering too...does this guy hang out with cops? Or had the cops already been to his place for some reason?

Pretty revealing when a cop looks at some footage and says 'oh that's Joe Schmoe's apartment'...

 

[Crayola227]

the article I read from following a poster above's search criteria said the police went to his apartment first and asked about the camera and he totally denied knowing anything about it,

from that questioning, they saw his apartment, later when they reviewed the tapes further the cops put together what they had seen from that first encounter together with further review of the tape

there was even an image capture of the back of his sofa from the video in the article

the second time he was approached he admitted he placed the cameras

blew me away, moral of that teeny part of this, never have pics of the inside of your place in an illegal video and never invite the cops in if they don't have a warrant

somehow that part seemed the dumbest to me, that he captured his personal effects in the film in a device he's placing in a trafficked location to catch a thief....

dude tested/turned on the surveillence cam in his apartment... essentially filming himself in the act of illegal surveillance

 

[hallowmann]

Yeah that part had me wondering too...does this guy hang out with cops? Or had the cops already been to his place for some reason?

Pretty revealing when a cop looks at some footage and says 'oh that's Joe Schmoe's apartment'...

I think they thought it was him before, and were planning to go to his place in the first place. They watched the video before, then they went to his place and interrogated him. He denied it, then they were like, you know you're apartment is on the video right? and he's like, damn can't get anything past the coppers.

Also, what I gathered was info easily found on a 2 min internet search and skimming the comments, which had some statements from other people he worked with.

 

[blue0rchid]

i can see the logic behind his reasoning (albeit a poor one) too. So he has two cameras, one in the bathroom where he found the empty pill bottle, and one next to his bag. Perhaps he was trying to set up and catch the thief in the act of stealing and disposing his meds? But even so, one camera next to the bag would have been sufficed. There was never a need for the potty cam. :-/

 

[dozitgetchahi]

the article I read from following a poster above's search criteria said the police went to his apartment first and asked about the camera and he totally denied knowing anything about it,

from that questioning, they saw his apartment, later when they reviewed the tapes further the cops put together what they had seen from that first encounter together with further review of the tape

there was even an image capture of the back of his sofa from the video in the article

the second time he was approached he admitted he placed the cameras

blew me away, moral of that teeny part of this, never have pics of the inside of your place in an illegal video and never invite the cops in if they don't have a warrant

somehow that part seemed the dumbest to me, that he captured his personal effects in the film in a device he's placing in a trafficked location to catch a thief....

dude tested/turned on the surveillence cam in his apartment... essentially filming himself in the act of illegal surveillance

Yup. You'd think an ex-investigative reporter would have at least a passing familiarity with all of this.

 

[MediCane2006]

Thought it might be this guy at first -- http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/lehigh-county/index.ssf/2016/04/ex-doctor_who_exposed_himself.html but have to agree it's probably potty-cam guy instead.

No shortage of poor judgement, it appears...

Holy cow. I interviewed this guy for residency. Definitely something was "off" .... never would have guessed this though....

 

[DokterMom]

Holy cow. I interviewed this guy for residency. Definitely something was "off" .... never would have guessed this though....

Small, small world. Yeah, something definitely "off"

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Holy cow. I interviewed this guy for residency. Definitely something was "off" .... never would have guessed this though....

Did he notice his zipper was down?

 

[Gastrapathy]

When he told them in an earlier interview that he saw the camera but was too busy to mention it, they knew it was him. They probably knew it was him before the first interview.

 

[Ioannes Paulus]

Please tell me there were a few AMG MDs that got fired from residencies this year...

I believe his story though. If he didn't have an Adderall prescription and got caught, he would be in trouble. He was likely a very paranoid and neurotic resident and was terrified of word spreading of him using the drugs.

 

[Ioannes Paulus]

But, DANG, at SUNY Upstate?!? Really?!?

Honestly, I feel terrible about the wife! God help her and give her strength! She needs some prayers. Word travels quickly in Upstate NY.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

When he told them in an earlier interview that he saw the camera but was too busy to mention it, they knew it was him. They probably knew it was him before the first interview.

He was a ******
Should have claimed ignorance all the way

 

[MediCane2006]

Small, small world. Yeah, something definitely "off"

The further I get in my training, the more I realize just how small a world it is

 

[cookymonster]

I think they thought it was him before, and were planning to go to his place in the first place. They watched the video before, then they went to his place and interrogated him. He denied it, then they were like, you know you're apartment is on the video right? and he's like, damn can't get anything past the coppers.

Also, what I gathered was info easily found on a 2 min internet search and skimming the comments, which had some statements from other people he worked with.

If that's true, I wonder what made them suspect him in the first place, strongly enough to go to his house for questioning. A physician wouldn't be the first suspect you'd think of, unless someone flagged him as being pervy or just weird. I'm sure no one initially thought the cameras were placed to recover stolen belongings.

 

[saudades]

What I don't get is how he expected to identify this person who allegedly stole his drugs if you couldn't see faces...by their pants? Or was it just illicit images that you couldn't see?

 

[Crayola227]

What I don't get is how he expected to identify this person who allegedly stole his drugs if you couldn't see faces...by their pants? Or was it just illicit images that you couldn't see?

nah, it definitely wsan't aimed for perviness, they show a photo of the sort of view it had in the bathroom

looked like maybe it was aimed for a spot where someone might set a purse or snort adderall, which sorta fits in with what he's saying his intent was
I hope for his sake it really was about who stole his stuff not perviness

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

Why the eff would anyone store adderall in those locations if they stole it? It'd be at home and I'd take one before going to work.

Again, such a ****

 

[dozitgetchahi]

Holy cow. I interviewed this guy for residency. Definitely something was "off" .... never would have guessed this though....

Tell us more about this.

We hear all the time around here that nothing sinks your cause faster as an applicant than acting weird or giving the perception that something about you is 'off' at an interview.

How did this guy get matched? Connections? Were there politics involved because of the couples match?

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

Tell us more about this.

We hear all the time around here that nothing sinks your cause faster as an applicant than acting weird or giving the perception that something about you is 'off' at an interview.

How did this guy get matched? Connections? Were there politics involved because of the couples match?

What made him "off" to one person probably didn't matter much to the next.
Programs do take couples into account - a lot of times they would have REALLY REALLY have wanted the other person to help elevate a total dud. Often times, the dud drops the stud, not always vice versa. We ran into such couples during our recent rank list meeting.

 

[Crayola227]

Why the eff would anyone store adderall in those locations if they stole it? It'd be at home and I'd take one before going to work.

Again, such a ****

naw plenty of people on it legally need a midday dose, he had it in his backpack in the ICU workroom

and plenty doing it illegally and would snort it in the bathroom if they so much an addict they're rifling through people's bags for it

I've had my purse stolen enough times to tell you, when someone steals your stuff they are *quick* to ditch what they can and keep what they want

after stealing someone's bottle of pills? smartest move is to go to nearest bathroom and get rid of the bottle

still, camera in bathroom is pretty dumb

 

[rokshana]

What made him "off" to one person probably didn't matter much to the next.
Programs do take couples into account - a lot of times they would have REALLY REALLY have wanted the other person to help elevate a total dud. Often times, the dud drops the stud, not always vice versa. We ran into such couples during our recent rank list meeting.

i think he was talking about the plastics guy who was exposing himself...don't think he has a spouse (or if he did, probably doesn't have one now...)

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

naw plenty of people on it legally need a midday dose, he had it in his backpack in the ICU workroom

and plenty doing it illegally and would snort it in the bathroom if they so much an addict they're rifling through people's bags for it

I've had my purse stolen enough times to tell you, when someone steals your stuff they are *quick* to ditch what they can and keep what they want

after stealing someone's bottle of pills? smartest move is to go to nearest bathroom and get rid of the bottle

still, camera in bathroom is pretty dumb

If I needed a mid-day snort, I sure as hell wouldn't leave it in the bathroom. I wouldn't even toss it in the bathroom. I would store it in my bag zipped up in a secure area of my bag and then toss the pill bottle in a random dumpster.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

i think he was talking about the plastics guy who was exposing himself...don't think he has a spouse (or if he did, probably doesn't have one now...)

Ah I see.
Either way, I doubt the guy was dubbed "odd" by everyone - hell he was married and he matched somewhere.

 

[gutonc]

Ah I see.
Either way, I doubt the guy was dubbed "odd" by everyone - hell he was married and he matched somewhere.

I have no information (or interest) about this case. But the Venn diagram of married/matched/odd in medicine is basically just a circle. Myself included.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

I have no information (or interest) about this case. But the Venn diagram of married/matched/odd in medicine is basically just a circle. Myself included.

Of course, but that wasn't my point. Being considered "odd" is very subjective. I am sure he is an odd guy (based on what he did) and it's clear he's got a weird fetish, but my point is that one person's opinion doesn't translate to coming off that way in everyone else's opinion/view point.

 

[gutonc]

Of course, but that wasn't my point. Being considered "odd" is very subjective. I am sure he is an odd guy (based on what he did) and it's clear he's got a weird fetish, but my point is that one person's opinion doesn't translate to coming off that way in everyone else's opinion/view point.

It probably does. Except in the opinion of the Aspie folks in medicine.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

It probably does. Except in the opinion of the Aspie folks in medicine.

Haha, there's lots of those.

 

[gutonc]

Haha, there's lots of those.

Which is probably how he snuck into a spot in the first place.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

Which is probably how he snuck into a spot in the first place.

Maybe. It really doesn't matter.

 

[Stroganoff]

OP, maybe look into a career as a private investigator...

TheHealer, DO, PI

inb4 MD vs. DO vs. PI

strangely enough....being drunk off her head actually helps the doc in the uber case, America eventually forgives drunks. The camera doc is done.

Plot twist: What if he was drunk when he placed the cameras?

 

[Crayola227]

TheHealer, DO, PI

inb4 MD vs. DO vs. PI

Plot twist: What if he was drunk when he placed the cameras?

better, much better

 

[j4pac]

TheHealer, DO, PI

inb4 MD vs. DO vs. PI

Plot twist: What if he was drunk when he placed the cameras?

He sounds like he was on a manic trip with paranoia.

 

[Crayola227]

He sounds like he was on a manic trip with paranoia.

I hope you're being quasi serious. It's real diagnostic possibility. Especially rotations like the ICU, high stress low sleep.

I actually wondered it from the history and his mug shot, he looks so... exhausted yet there's something behind the eyes?

it's possible to be in a stimulant-induced manic state, like from Adderall

now I really feel bad for the guy. it's possible that there's mental health explanation to this lapse in judgement. it doesn't pass the smell test for being pervy. but it certainly is off. too little sleep too much Adderall can certainly account for it IMHO.

I don't suggest what that should mean for his career. Just, some people crack under certain conditions. Whenever we see these sorts of lapses in judgement that we just can't rationally account for, we should wonder if there's any Axis 1 stuff going on in addition to how much we love to call into question the person's character.

Dude made it this far. I would like to see some rehabilitation.

Some type of BPAD is more common in the gen pop than is commonly known, some estimates put it at up to 5-10%. Some BPAD2 live most of their lives in a depression and it's not until you have a scenario like the above that you get hypomania/mania. I don't know that certain qualities of the medical field select to make BPAD higher in our field, but people with some form of BP can easily find themselves in medicine. We already know that many med students/physicians can function at a high level with varying severities of depression, and that's going to be true for many with BP depression too. Increased productivity, getting little sleep, are traits highly valued and sought after even! Under certain circumstances *hypo*mania can be an asset.

Yes, the BPAD sufferer can easily find themselves holding a medical degree only to crack in the ICU.

Last point too, is that one needs to screen very carefully to differentiate between an attention span and/or motor affect that is due to ADD/ADHD vs an undiagnosed hypomania. I've seen plenty of people put on stimulants only to discover they were not ADD/ADHD but some sort of BPAD spectrum.

I speculate this is the result of a hypomanic vs manic state (I would need to know if he had symptoms besides paranoia/poor judgement to say) secondary to severe sleep deprivation vs medication side effect vs an unmasked BPAD NOS. I'm not a psychiatrist so excuse me if my DSM-V lingo or whatever here is wrong.

He could be an idiot, a perv, simply personality disordered or was just tired. But I think the above makes the most sense to account for this.

EDIT: acronyms fixed

I've always seen it as BPD for bipolar disorder, but many have also see it and think borderline personality disorder. I agree BPAD is less ambiguous.

 

[j4pac]

I hope you're being quasi serious. It's real diagnostic possibility. Especially rotations like the ICU, high stress low sleep.

I actually wondered it from the history and his mug shot, he looks so... exhausted yet there's something behind the eyes?

it's possible to be in a stimulant-induced manic state, like from Adderall

now I really feel bad for the guy. it's possible that there's mental health explanation to this lapse in judgement. it doesn't pass the smell test for being pervy. but it certainly is off. too little sleep too much Adderall can certainly account for it IMHO.

I don't suggest what that should mean for his career. Just, some people crack under certain conditions. Whenever we see these sorts of lapses in judgement that we just can't rationally account for, we should wonder if there's any Axis 1 stuff going on in addition to how much we love to call into question the person's character.

Dude made it this far. I would like to see some rehabilitation.

Some type of BPD is more common in the gen pop than is commonly known, some estimates put it at up to 5-10%. Some BPD2 live most of their lives in a depression and it's not until you have a scenario like the above that you get hypomania/mania. I don't know that certain qualities of the medical field select to make BPD higher in our field, but people with some form of BP can easily find themselves in medicine. We already know that many med students/physicians can function at a high level with varying severities of depression, and that's going to be true for many with BP depression too. Increased productivity, getting little sleep, are traits highly valued and sought after even! Under certain circumstances *hypo*mania can be an asset.

Yes, the BPD sufferer can easily find themselves holding a medical degree only to crack in the ICU.

Last point too, is that one needs to screen very carefully to differentiate between an attention span and/or motor affect that is due to ADD/ADHD vs an undiagnosed hypomania. I've seen plenty of people put on stimulants only to discover they were not ADD/ADHD but some sort of BPD spectrum.

I speculate this is the result of a hypomanic vs manic state (I would need to know if he had symptoms besides paranoia/poor judgement to say) secondary to severe sleep deprivation vs medication side effect vs an unmasked BPD NOS. I'm not a psychiatrist so excuse me if my DSM-V lingo or whatever here is wrong.

He could be an idiot, a perv, simply personality disordered or was just tired. But I think the above makes the most sense to account for this.

Yeah...I'm not here to give diagnoses. He was not acting normal at all. Maybe he was sleep deprived and hopped up on Adderall/Monsters. Who the heck knows.

I've been delusional while sleep deprived before...so it's tough to say.

 

[hamstergang]

Some type of BPD is more common in the gen pop than is commonly known, some estimates put it at up to 5-10%. Some BPD2 live most of their lives in a depression and it's not until you have a scenario like the above that you get hypomania/mania.

Usually, I see BPD stand for Borderline Personality Disorder. You could write BPAD for Bipolar Affective Disorder, but I personally find it odd to capitalize the P when it's only representing the middle of a word.

 

[blue0rchid]

so it doesn't look like BAD

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

I hope you're being quasi serious. It's real diagnostic possibility. Especially rotations like the ICU, high stress low sleep.

I actually wondered it from the history and his mug shot, he looks so... exhausted yet there's something behind the eyes?

it's possible to be in a stimulant-induced manic state, like from Adderall

now I really feel bad for the guy. it's possible that there's mental health explanation to this lapse in judgement. it doesn't pass the smell test for being pervy. but it certainly is off. too little sleep too much Adderall can certainly account for it IMHO.

I don't suggest what that should mean for his career. Just, some people crack under certain conditions. Whenever we see these sorts of lapses in judgement that we just can't rationally account for, we should wonder if there's any Axis 1 stuff going on in addition to how much we love to call into question the person's character.

Dude made it this far. I would like to see some rehabilitation.

Some type of BPAD is more common in the gen pop than is commonly known, some estimates put it at up to 5-10%. Some BPAD2 live most of their lives in a depression and it's not until you have a scenario like the above that you get hypomania/mania. I don't know that certain qualities of the medical field select to make BPAD higher in our field, but people with some form of BP can easily find themselves in medicine. We already know that many med students/physicians can function at a high level with varying severities of depression, and that's going to be true for many with BP depression too. Increased productivity, getting little sleep, are traits highly valued and sought after even! Under certain circumstances *hypo*mania can be an asset.

Yes, the BPAD sufferer can easily find themselves holding a medical degree only to crack in the ICU.

Last point too, is that one needs to screen very carefully to differentiate between an attention span and/or motor affect that is due to ADD/ADHD vs an undiagnosed hypomania. I've seen plenty of people put on stimulants only to discover they were not ADD/ADHD but some sort of BPAD spectrum.

I speculate this is the result of a hypomanic vs manic state (I would need to know if he had symptoms besides paranoia/poor judgement to say) secondary to severe sleep deprivation vs medication side effect vs an unmasked BPAD NOS. I'm not a psychiatrist so excuse me if my DSM-V lingo or whatever here is wrong.

He could be an idiot, a perv, simply personality disordered or was just tired. But I think the above makes the most sense to account for this.

EDIT: acronyms fixed

I've always seen it as BPD for bipolar disorder, but many have also see it and think borderline personality disorder. I agree BPAD is less ambiguous.

Thanks for your speculation.

And for not being a psychiatrist you love to use your "DSM V" lingo a lot. Was wondering how long it would take before you tried to diagnose this guy with something based on his mug shot (there's just something behind his eyes....).

 

[da8s0859q]

I read so many of these fired from residency posts, and each of them very gloomy
Whats stopping the OP from opening his own private practice? He still has an unlimited medical license in most states right? Do cash business if you cant get on insurance

Why bump a year old thread for this?

1: Private practice, successfully, is often prohibitively hard and arguably less safe for many without a completed residency.
2: Depends.
3: Easier said than done.

 

[finnasvaret]

Thought it might be this guy at first -- Ex-doctor who exposed himself 3 times from car avoids jail but have to agree it's probably potty-cam guy instead.

No shortage of poor judgement, it appears..

hey he graduated from my school, class of 2015! small world! I wonder what he's up to now and whether he has to register as a sex offender.