Surgical Oncology?

[mikejones212]

I have been trying to find any information about the salaries and lifestyle of a fellowship trained surgical oncologist. Can someone answer the questions below please:

Salary?
Lifestyle?
Should I expect to be able to land this fellowship after GS residency or might I be stuck doing GS forever?
Can I forego the fellowship and just do mainly cancer procedures as a GS attending?

Thank you

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[masaraksh]

I think surg onc is still a competitive fellowship. Obviously less so than plastics. I would also be interested in hearing more about this.

I remember reading that in terms of lifestyle, surg onc may be better than some gen surg since surg onc cases tend to be more 'planned'. On the same note, I would imagine call to be more lax as well compared to gen surg call.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I have been trying to find any information about the salaries and lifestyle of a fellowship trained surgical oncologist. Can someone answer the questions below please:

Salary?

Highly variable depending on practice environment but more than a GS typically. I imagine that you will be able to afford nice shoes.

Lifestyle?

Also variable depending on practice. If you do mostly breast and melanoma, many of your cases will be outpatient. Others may focus on foregut and have patients with frequent readmissions and ICU stays. Academic practice may shield you from first call due to the presence of residents but more adminstrative headaches in PP. However as noted above, because most cases are elective, the lifestyle may certainly be better than GS. There are as many practice options as one can imagine; all with pros and cons.

Should I expect to be able to land this fellowship after GS residency or might I be stuck doing GS forever?

Surg Onc is one of the more competitive and academic GS fellowships. The match rate for US grads last year was 66% in 23 programs with 56 positions. It's not an easy match. Some will co-apply to breast fellowships and other less competitive ones in the event they don't obtain a Surg Onc position; you may choose to do that or apply for something else instead of doing GS, but one should always be prepared for the possibility of a career in GS.

Can I forego the fellowship and just do mainly cancer procedures as a GS attending?

Thank you

At this time and in certain environments, yes. You may find some centers want a fellowship grad (increasingly the case) but there are certainly many GS in the US doing breast, thyroid, melanoma and colons; fewer do foregut malignancies but it's possible. In other markets, you may find it difficult to compete without the fellowship training.

 

[DermViser]

Highly variable depending on practice environment but more than a GS typically. I imagine that you will be able to afford nice shoes.

Or closets full of them!

Surg Onc is one of the more competitive and academic GS fellowships. The match rate for US grads last year was 66% in 23 programs with 56 positions. It's not an easy match.

Yikes!!

 

[masaraksh]

Or closets full of them!

Yikes!!

Get them Jays

 

[tima]

Get them Jays

Some of those Jays have good resale value especially if you can get those rare ones. A good way to make some extra money.

 

[masaraksh]

Some of those Jays have good resale value especially if you can get those rare ones. A good way to make some extra money.

Yeah, now I know what to drop $$ on when those student loans come in.

 

[Winged Scapula]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/fear-of-a-bourbon-shortage-puts-enthusiasts-over-a-barrel-1418004595

And *that's* your reply in a Surg Onc thread?

 

[DrEnderW]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/fear-of-a-bourbon-shortage-puts-enthusiasts-over-a-barrel-1418004595

Dear Lord Baby Jesus, make it stop

 

[DermViser]

Get them Jays

I don't think that's @Winged Scapula's type of shoe she likes best. lol.

 

[DermViser]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/fear-of-a-bourbon-shortage-puts-enthusiasts-over-a-barrel-1418004595

Can't they just drink something else?

 

[Winged Scapula]

I don't think that's @Winged Scapula's type of shoe she likes best. lol.

Totes.

Those shoes are hideous, even for men's shoes. These are more to my liking:

 

[DermViser]

Totes.

Those shoes are hideous, even for men's shoes. These are more to my liking:

I think I liked the ones with butterfly wings on the back the most. I'm imagining you flying from one operating table to the next with them once you're operated and closed. LOL!

I would have thought you liked these more:

 

[Winged Scapula]

I think I liked the ones with butterfly wings on the back the most. I'm imagining you flying from one operating table to the next with them once you're operated and closed. LOL!

I would have thought you liked these more:

Yes, the butterfly Sophia Websters are quite a fan favorite.

I'm betwixt and between about those Jimmy Choos however; OTOH I like them but the platform makes the shiny and the sparkle look a little too "professional" working girl for me. If they didn't have the platform, I would totally want them.

 

[DermViser]

Yes, the butterfly Sophia Websters are quite a fan favorite.

I'm betwixt and between about those Jimmy Choos however; OTOH I like them but the platform makes the shiny and the sparkle look a little too "professional" working girl for me. If they didn't have the platform, I would totally want them.

They should have a removable platform to attach it when you need it.

 

[masaraksh]

Totes.

Those shoes are hideous, even for men's shoes. These are more to my liking:

How do you play bball in those?

 

[Winged Scapula]

How do you play bball in those?

Very well thank you.

 

[fancymylotus]

I think I liked the ones with butterfly wings on the back the most. I'm imagining you flying from one operating table to the next with them once you're operated and closed. LOL!

I would have thought you liked these more:

zomg, if these were pink, I would buy them right now.

 

[Merely]

When you say more than general surgery in terms of salary, are you suggesting 300-350 or 350-400 or can we be more specific so those interested can have a good understanding.

 

[Entadus]

When you say more than general surgery in terms of salary, are you suggesting 300-350 or 350-400 or can we be more specific so those interested can have a good understanding.

Woah there, get the dollar signs out of your eyes, pre-med. Is there really a significant difference between 320k and 380k for someone 10+ years away from this sort of career?

 

[Merely]

Woah there, get the dollar signs out of your eyes, pre-med. Is there really a significant difference between 320k and 380k for someone 10+ years away from this sort of career?

Where in my post did I ever even insinuate that I was interested in this career or cared so much about money? I don't know if you're aware, but it is possible to inquire and try to learn things that don't directly pertain to you or your current situation.

 

[Entadus]

Where in my post did I ever even insinuate that I was interested in this career or cared so much about money? I don't know if you're aware, but it is possible to inquire and try to learn things that don't directly pertain to you or your current situation.

When you say more than general surgery in terms of salary, are you suggesting 300-350 or 350-400 or can we be more specific so those interested can have a good understanding.

So you're not interested? It seemed like you were based on the fact that you cared enough to make a post and ask the question.

 

[DermViser]

I mean she kind of already said it - it's highly variable depending on geography and practice environment. It's generally a smidgen more than the comparable salary of a general surgeon practicing in the same area, but not a ton more.

I would have thought it would be much more - since people need cancers of different organs removed all the time.

 

[DermViser]

Well if you're in a private practice model, it basically comes down to volume (leaving outside the complexities of running a practice, etc, which I know very little about at this stage). The RVUs for the oncology operations aren't much more on average than what a general surgeon does...and the ones that are more RVUs are typically longer cases so they cut down on your overall volume. That's why the salary will be similar.

In an academic environment, the surgical oncologists tend to have a little higher salary than the general surgeons, but the salary is much more tied to where you are in the ranks (i.e. clinical instructor vs asst prof vs full prof).

So then overall, surgical subspecialization doesn't really give you a huge bump in salary.

 

[DermViser]

Depends on the field, and some weird RVU/reimbursement quirks.

So which ones benefit from the RVU quirks as they are now? I'm guessing Plastics.

 

[Merely]

So you're not interested? It seemed like you were based on the fact that you cared enough to make a post and ask the question.

There's a fundamental difference, which unfortunately has eluded you, between being interested in something, such as surgical oncology, and being interested in learning about surgical oncology. I am interested in learning about many things, but that does not entail that I am interested in doing those things. Telling me to "get the money out of my eyes" is not constructive in any sense and is derailing this thread which has the potential to enhance all of our knowledge bases just because you felt the need to be arrogant and tell someone younger than you what you were probably told when you were their age.

 

[Entadus]

There's a fundamental difference, which unfortunately has eluded you, between being interested in something, such as surgical oncology, and being interested in learning about surgical oncology. I am interested in learning about many things, but that does not entail that I am interested in doing those things. Telling me to "get the money out of my eyes" is not constructive in any sense and is derailing this thread which has the potential to enhance all of our knowledge bases just because you felt the need to be arrogant and tell someone younger than you what you were probably told when you were their age.

I'll admit to acting arrogant and derailing the thread. Plus I give you props for defending yourself. However when I was your age I didn't ask salary questions on the medical student board

 

[masaraksh]

I'll admit to acting arrogant and derailing the thread. Plus I give you props for defending yourself. However when I was your age I didn't ask salary questions on the medical student board

Buuuut, I want to know approximately how many lambos I'll be able to afford if I become a doctor.

 

[Frazier]

Yeah... the pricey exotic sport car as an avatar doesn't lead to any suspicions.

 

[Merely]

Yeah... the pricey exotic sport car as an avatar doesn't lead to any suspicions.

I don't understand why so many here waste so much of their time questioning people's motives instead of just contributing positive information. Be constructive, and tell me something I don't know instead of being the person who just wants to questions other's motives when it's none of your business at all. Mind your own business, really important lesson to learn in life that many here I've been noticing have a real problem comprehending.

 

[Frazier]

I don't think anyone here wasted more than maybe a few minutes on any given post.

The poster above that said something like "don't worry about the salary now, you're about 10-12 years(!) away from the job market" (in regards to fine-tune mining between 300-350k vs 350-400k) was giving you good, constructive insight. That information really shouldn't be of much interest -- as there is exactly zero utility being over a decade out and as was further explained as "it depends".

"More than 300k?" Logical.
"But, is it 330k or 370k?" Inconsequential at current distance.

If you don't like the way that "many" medical students here communicate with you, I kindly remind you that you're welcome to return to the Pre-Allo sub-forum.

 

[masaraksh]

I don't understand why so many here waste so much of their time questioning people's motives instead of just contributing positive information. Be constructive, and tell me something I don't know instead of being the person who just wants to questions other's motives when it's none of your business at all. Mind your own business, really important lesson to learn in life that many here I've been noticing have a real problem comprehending.

Here, I'll tell you something you don't know:
Don't go to med school thinking that you'll be swimming in $$$$

 

[fancymylotus]

Here, I'll tell you something you don't know:
Don't go to med school thinking that you'll be swimming in $$$$

That's why I didn't go!

(kidding, kidding)

 

[CherryRedDracul]

Can we just go back to talking about shoes?

 

[fancymylotus]

Can we just go back to talking about shoes?

That should be my signature.

I want to buy his and hers louboutins. Red bottom heel heaven. I just don't think he's gonna wear them ><

 

[Merely]

I don't think anyone here wasted more than maybe a few minutes on any given post.

The poster above that said something like "don't worry about the salary now, you're about 10-12 years(!) away from the job market" (in regards to fine-tune mining between 300-350k vs 350-400k) was giving you good, constructive insight. That information really shouldn't be of much interest -- as there is exactly zero utility being over a decade out and as was further explained as "it depends".

"More than 300k?" Logical.
"But, is it 330k or 370k?" Inconsequential at current distance.

If you don't like the way that "many" medical students here communicate with you, I kindly remind you that you're welcome to return to the Pre-Allo sub-forum.

Are you deliberately being obtuse? I asked for information for myself and for others (since this is public, shocker) to learn, not because I want to be "swimming in money." It is interesting that you, and many others, but definitely not all, have a certain attitude towards those who "rank" lower than you, so to speak. You want to essentially tell me that I shouldn't ask certain questions because it "shouldn't matter." Well, it does matter to me. It matters because I want to learn. I want others who are reading this to learn and expand their horizons. Telling me that I shouldn't ask questions that are completely relevant to the topic, is neither constructive nor necessary. You, and others who think like you, have not contributed anything beneficial to this conversation and I don't see the reason you're even on this thread since obviously you don't want to learn because you're "too far out." If you had approached me with less arrogance and more empathy, by telling me that money should not be my primary motivation, without implying that it is, then you would be giving solid advice to those (premeds) who need to hear it. However, assuming without any reason, that I just want money and am only here because I want lambos or whatevers else you said is pointless. Bottom line: stop wasting space and time that could be used for constructive, beneficial advice given to people who are either genuinely curious or those who have serious decisions to make.

 

[mikejones212]

Are you deliberately being obtuse? I asked for information for myself and for others (since this is public, shocker) to learn, not because I want to be "swimming in money." It is interesting that you, and many others, but definitely not all, have a certain attitude towards those who "rank" lower than you, so to speak. You want to essentially tell me that I shouldn't ask certain questions because it "shouldn't matter." Well, it does matter to me. It matters because I want to learn. I want others who are reading this to learn and expand their horizons. Telling me that I shouldn't ask questions that are completely relevant to the topic, is neither constructive nor necessary. You, and others who think like you, have not contributed anything beneficial to this conversation and I don't see the reason you're even on this thread since obviously you don't want to learn because you're "too far out." If you had approached me with less arrogance and more empathy, by telling me that money should not be my primary motivation, without implying that it is, then you would be giving solid advice to those (premeds) who need to hear it. However, assuming without any reason, that I just want money and am only here because I want lambos or whatevers else you said is pointless. Bottom line: stop wasting space and time that could be used for constructive, beneficial advice given to people who are either genuinely curious or those who have serious decisions to make.

I actually appreciate that you asked for the more specific salary range since I was also wondering that as well! It does vary by location as they said above so you must first know what a GS makes in a particular location and practice setup then just add a little bit to it I guess. Good luck!

 

[Meh.meh]

I don't understand why so many here waste so much of their time questioning people's motives instead of just contributing positive information. Be constructive, and tell me something I don't know instead of being the person who just wants to questions other's motives when it's none of your business at all. Mind your own business, really important lesson to learn in life that many here I've been noticing have a real problem comprehending.

A few observations:
Most "ok premed" replies come from a few types of comments:
-comments saying "medicine is soooooooooooooooooo awesome!!! how can you be unhappy!!!"
-comments questioning the personal experience of people further in the process
-comments talking about finances, debt, or salaries
-comments on social issues and ethical situations

Most people don't care. I don't think most people even look at the "status" unless something in the comment is fu*ky (see above list).

If you're respectful, curious, and don't ask questions that make people roll their eyes (salary difference of 50k), nobody cares. A 50k difference in salaries will likely vary more by region and individual practice than the difference in pay itself. It's even more ludicrous considering the fact that you're more than a decade away from such a practice, and pay changes in specialties on a yearly basis.

If you really want salary information, there's also a search bar at the top. Someone has probably committed that faux pas for you.

Your question is also odd because you have no idea if you're even interested in surgery, and no real way of knowing. People way, way further down the line than you make the mistake of thinking they're interested in surgery all the time. See the high attrition rates in general surgery residency for a reference point (although that's in large part due to how goddamn tough that residency is).

In short, people are saying "goddamn premed" because your question was pretty odd, not just because of your status. It's also asked ad nauseum.

Endrant.

 

[Meh.meh]

I actually appreciate that you asked for the more specific salary range since I was also wondering that as well! It does vary by location as they said above so you must first know what a GS makes in a particular location and practice setup then just add a little bit to it I guess. Good luck!

That information is generally publicly available, at least to some extent. You can search on here or on google. On SDN I'd look for threads asking "is it worth it to pursue ___" because that often codes as "how much money do you make?"

You can also start a thread if you're desperate.

Are you deliberately being obtuse?

She/He was actually fairly informative, and more polite than I'd expect.

Asking about salary differences that small is like asking whether the wind is blowing south or south by southwest today, then deciding what way the wind will blow in 10 years, and about as useful. It's impossible to predict with any real certainty.

 

[mikejones212]

The salary range that the other guy posted ranged from 300 to 400, and then he said be more specific because it might not be within the scope of those numbers. Also, I'm a GS resident and I had a similar question so I don't see the huge deal that is being made. Moreover, if you think 100k is a salary difference so small to consider then you really need to get a reality check.

 

[Entadus]

Are you deliberately being obtuse? I asked for information for myself and for others (since this is public, shocker) to learn, not because I want to be "swimming in money." It is interesting that you, and many others, but definitely not all, have a certain attitude towards those who "rank" lower than you, so to speak. You want to essentially tell me that I shouldn't ask certain questions because it "shouldn't matter." Well, it does matter to me. It matters because I want to learn. I want others who are reading this to learn and expand their horizons. Telling me that I shouldn't ask questions that are completely relevant to the topic, is neither constructive nor necessary. You, and others who think like you, have not contributed anything beneficial to this conversation and I don't see the reason you're even on this thread since obviously you don't want to learn because you're "too far out." If you had approached me with less arrogance and more empathy, by telling me that money should not be my primary motivation, without implying that it is, then you would be giving solid advice to those (premeds) who need to hear it. However, assuming without any reason, that I just want money and am only here because I want lambos or whatevers else you said is pointless. Bottom line: stop wasting space and time that could be used for constructive, beneficial advice given to people who are either genuinely curious or those who have serious decisions to make.

The salary range that the other guy posted ranged from 300 to 400, and then he said be more specific because it might not be within the scope of those numbers. Also, I'm a GS resident and I had a similar question so I don't see the huge deal that is being made. Moreover, if you think 100k is a salary difference so small to consider then you really need to get a reality check.

You're a GS resident and your best source of salary information is the Allopathic med student board of SDN?

 

[Meh.meh]

The salary range that the other guy posted ranged from 300 to 400, and then he said be more specific because it might not be within the scope of those numbers. Also, I'm a GS resident and I had a similar question so I don't see the huge deal that is being made. Moreover, if you think 100k is a salary difference so small to consider then you really need to get a reality check.

I apologize if I offended you, I assumed you were a pre-med as well. Writing a post takes about 30 seconds, and I'm not particularly worried. To get the proper vibe from my posts, you'd probably have to read them in a monotone.

Of course 100,000 dollars a year is a large amount of money, I'm not suggesting otherwise. Honestly, I don't know how I'll feel if I'm ever in your shoes (seriously doubt it, but props for doing what you do), but I don't think that's how I'd choose a fellowship.

I imagine there are better ways to get the money out than an additional few years as an indentured servant losing out on interest/wages.

However, you probably know better than I do. Good luck with training.

Edit: although, looking back at the posts, the question wasn't 300k vs 400k. It was 300-350 vs 350-400 (which is why my original post is the way it is). That's a different question than 300k or 400k. Even at the 300k vs 400k level it would still be a weird question for someone 10 yrs out, or even 5, and (in my opinion) a poor way to choose a fellowship

Edit 2: Also, adding a 100k at that level isn't really adding 100k. It's probably closer to 50k post-taxes. That's not a large enough difference (to me) to justify 2 more years of training.

 

[mikejones212]

You guys must have read a post that I did not write. I don't recall every saying this was my BEST source of advice. I have asked many of my attendings but I recently found out about this site and realized I would also get a few answers from here as well. As to where I decided to post it, I don't really know where the surgery board is I signed up only recently so I'm quite new and haven't had much time to search through.

 

[Entadus]

You guys must have read a post that I did not write. I don't recall every saying this was my BEST source of advice. I have asked many of my attendings but I recently found out about this site and realized I would also get a few answers from here as well. As to where I decided to post it, I don't really know where the surgery board is I signed up only recently so I'm quite new and haven't had much time to search through.

So what did your attendings say?

 

[Merely]

I apologize if I offended you, I assumed you were a pre-med as well. Writing a post takes about 30 seconds, and I'm not particularly worried. To get the proper vibe from my posts, you'd probably have to read them in a monotone.

Of course 100,000 dollars a year is a large amount of money, I'm not suggesting otherwise. Honestly, I don't know how I'll feel if I'm ever in your shoes (seriously doubt it, but props for doing what you do), but I don't think that's how I'd choose a fellowship.

I imagine there are better ways to get the money out than an additional few years as an indentured servant losing out on interest/wages.

However, you probably know better than I do. Good luck with training.

Edit: although, looking back at the posts, the question wasn't 300k vs 400k. It was 300-350 vs 350-400 (which is why my original post is the way it is). That's a different question than 300k or 400k. Even at the 300k vs 400k level it would still be a weird question for someone 10 yrs out, or even 5, and (in my opinion) a poor way to choose a fellowship

Edit 2: Also, adding a 100k at that level isn't really adding 100k. It's probably closer to 50k post-taxes. That's not a large enough difference (to me) to justify 2 more years of training.

LOL, let's take a moment to compare your condescending responses to me versus your tone (you apologized) when you spoke with the resident. Some people on here are hilarious.

 

[Merely]

So what did your attendings say?

You shouldn't be asking that, you're like a decade away from that decision. Go study histology.

 

[Entadus]

LOL, let's take a moment to compare your condescending responses to me versus your tone (you apologized) when you spoke with the resident. Some people on here are hilarious.

Honestly Merely, you shouldn't take anybody's posts too seriously. If you aren't laughing while you read this board, you're doing it wrong!

 

[Meh.meh]

You guys must have read a post that I did not write. I don't recall every saying this was my BEST source of advice. I have asked many of my attendings but I recently found out about this site and realized I would also get a few answers from here as well. As to where I decided to post it, I don't really know where the surgery board is I signed up only recently so I'm quite new and haven't had much time to search through.

Go to "forums" at the top, click on residents. Scroll to the surgery section. Make a thread if you want salary information, it will get much better results coming from you

 

[Entadus]

You shouldn't be asking that, you're like a decade away from that decision. Go study histology.

OH NO YOU DI'NT

 

[W19]

Woah there, get the dollar signs out of your eyes, pre-med. Is there really a significant difference between 320k and 380k for someone 10+ years away from this sort of career?

Yes there is a difference. 380k>320k... Hope this is correct.