Supplements, ergogens, nootropics, etc.

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PharmDBro2017

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Anyone here mess around with ergogens or nootropic type supplements to enhance cognition/performance (physical or cognitive)? Personally, I am a fan of them. Curious who else has used these during school, and to hear your thoughts and experiences.

Things like creatine monohydrate, l-citrulline, beta-alanine, etc. for exercise performance.

Racetams, choline derivatives, ALCAR for nootropics, etc.

Discuss. Inb4 adderall jokesters...

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My brother was put on a nootropic by a doctor in Singapore..it's all junk. There are no better than placebos.


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Coworker swears by his 'omniracetam'. If there is some effect, you have to wonder what the rebound is when you stop. Nothing is free. Even caffeine gives you brown teeth.


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My brother was put on a nootropic by a doctor in Singapore..it's all junk. There are no better than placebos.


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Increasing acetylcholine/neurotransmitters is placebo? :/

Anecdotally, I have better memory recall and retention when using them.
 
The racetam analogues seem no better than placebo. They sure are placebo if they lack entry/affinity to the BBB

Piracetam, oxiracetam, pramiracetam, aniracetam all pass the BBB... working on NMDA and AMPA receptors.
 
1-1.5g of Phenibut an hour before you go out or have to give a presentation is pretty good
 
Anyone here mess around with ergogens or nootropic type supplements to enhance cognition/performance (physical or cognitive)? Personally, I am a fan of them. Curious who else has used these during school, and to hear your thoughts and experiences.

Things like creatine monohydrate, l-citrulline, beta-alanine, etc. for exercise performance.

Racetams, choline derivatives, ALCAR for nootropics, etc.

Discuss. Inb4 adderall jokesters...


They're all bull**** based on the writings of quacks in the pre 1950 era.
 
They're all bull**** based on the writings of quacks in the pre 1950 era.

Be more specific, which compound are you talking about? You'd have to be either unaware or ignorant to make a such a blanket statement.
 
Be more specific, which compound are you talking about? You'd have to be either unaware or ignorant to make a such a blanket statement.
I'm talking about all of the super-secret-wink-wink-wow-your-in-the-pocket-of-big-pharma-doctor-hates-this"Supplements, ergogens, nootropics, etc..."

I'm sure there is a lot of junk science I'm intentionally ignorant of.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be a member of the church of Royal Lee, but I'm saying that I think they're crap with only blog-post evidence to back them up. We can agree to disagree.
Unless you're slamming oxymetholone, nandrolone, and injecting testosterone by the tablespoon, you're wasting your time.
 
I think a better way for the bros who believe in bro science would be podiatropic supplements and shoegogens.

The dosing is really simple. You just take the patients height, and subtract that from 72." For every inch under 6 feet, just add 0.5" of Podiatropic supplement matieral into the insole of their shoe, and 0.5" of shoegogen material to the sole of the shoe.

Once the patient appreciates life from the viewpoint of 6 feet in the air, 99% will experience relief from the urge to become tiny hulks
 
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I'm talking about all of the super-secret-wink-wink-wow-your-in-the-pocket-of-big-pharma-doctor-hates-this"Supplements, ergogens, nootropics, etc..."

I'm sure there is a lot of junk science I'm intentionally ignorant of.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be a member of the church of Royal Lee, but I'm saying that I think they're crap with only blog-post evidence to back them up. We can agree to disagree.
Unless you're slamming oxymetholone, nandrolone, and injecting testosterone by the tablespoon, you're wasting your time.


Not sure how you jumped topics from my original post regarding supplements, to AAS (testosterone, nandrolone, anadrol), or how you got onto rambling about crunchy chit like big pharma / doctor hates supplement xyz. I am not one to believe in broscience, thus I wanted science based discussion ITT.

But if you think creatine monohydrate, citrulline, etc. supplements that are proven to increase ATP, volume capacity, VO2 max, and endurance are bullchit... again you'd have to be completely unaware (maybe you don't exercise) or just stupid. They aren't magic or giving gains like AAS, but there are supplements that do provide benefit in exercise. Creatine is the probably the most studied thing on the planet... there are vast benefits, not just with exercise.
 
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LOL. What is bro science? I have never heard of that before. My pharmacy school didn't teach that.

It's kinda like the David Wolfe followers who say essential oils can cure the flu.

They'll get emotional and talk about their research, but only ever reference Geocities websites
 
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It's kinda like the David Wolfe followers who say essential oils can cure the flu.

They'll get emotional and talk about their research, but only ever reference Geocities websites

Knew you were a David Wolfe follower type guy. Just had the intuition.
 
Knew you were a David Wolfe follower type guy. Just had the intuition.

I think you need some readotropic supplements if you think I'm presenting Wolfe's followers in a positive light.

Here's another tip:

To increase ATP production, consume oxygen.
 
Well, how about it for citicoline?
"Attention and psychomotor speed (of the dominant hand) improved significantly in healthy adolescent males (13-18yo) after 28 days of citicoline 250-500mg/day vs placebo in RDB trial (n=75)." Lexicomp natural products

Unlike most all of the other nootropics, citicoline actually has merit in a healthy population (vs. impaired cognition, stroke, Alzhiemer's, dementia, etc.). Would be Awsome to see a comparison to the gold standard, caffeine. Not surprising, but both are in 5 hour energy in addition to l-tyrosine (really specific benefit only in cognitive lowering cold environments).

Could potentially banned by ignorant govt officials due to *****s who OD on this "psycostimulant". Have seen stupidity in news reports about citicoline (as well as my favorite, ER visits from teens using waaaaay too much dry powder caffeine anhydrous).
 
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x2 on citicoline. Also a fan of alpha-gpc (L-Alpha glycerylphosphorylcholine).

And to Ceti that doesn't know a joke when it's blatant...c'mon man. All david wolfe followers are idiots, at least we can agree upon that. Maybe you need some sarcasmotropic supplements.
 
x2 on citicoline. Also a fan of alpha-gpc (L-Alpha glycerylphosphorylcholine).

And to Ceti that doesn't know a joke when it's blatant...c'mon man. All david wolfe followers are idiots, at least we can agree upon that. Maybe you need some sarcasmotropic supplements.

I hadn't injected my 5mL of vegan essential joke oils into my buttcheek before I posted.
My apologies. Namaste
 
I think a better way for the bros who believe in bro science would be podiatropic supplements and shoegogens.

The dosing is really simple. You just take the patients height, and subtract that from 72." For every inch under 6 feet, just add 0.5" of Podiatropic supplement matieral into the insole of their shoe, and 0.5" of shoegogen material to the sole of the shoe.

Once the patient appreciates life from the viewpoint of 6 feet in the air, 99% will experience relief from the urge to become tiny hulks
Dont forget its dissolved in alcohol. Take 3 drops six times a day. One bottke is 80 dollars and last 11 days..
 
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I have yet to see a nootropic study without glaring methodological limitations, inappropriate statistical choices, or gross overgeneralizations of the data. Things like acetycholinesterase inhibitors don't even work in deficient populations (e.g., Alzheimer's).
 
I have yet to see a nootropic study without glaring methodological limitations, inappropriate statistical choices, or gross overgeneralizations of the data. Things like acetycholinesterase inhibitors don't even work in deficient populations (e.g., Alzheimer's).

Do you think slowing progression of disease = not even working?
 
Do you think slowing progression of disease = not even working?

It doesn't slow the progression of the disease. That assumption is built on inappropriate LOCF analyses that violate the assumptions of the underlying test. Also, even if you look past the glaring error in the LOCF analyses, the statistically different means are rarely clinically significant. A .3 difference on the MMSE is 1/10th of what is needed to maintain a clinically significant finding. If you actually look at the several long term studies of the medications that examined time to disability, time to institutionalization, and time to death, there are no differences. So, no. They do not work.
 
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Increasing acetylcholine/neurotransmitters is placebo? :/

Anecdotally, I have better memory recall and retention when using them.

I didn't say the MOA of the drug is a placebo effect, rather effect vs outcome. A lot of drugs don't fare in the market coz clinical trials show they are no better than placebo.


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