Summa Health System/NEOUCOM Residency Reviews

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I think he is saying the opposite. The only known case that I know of where residents got kicked out without funding was at an AOA residency program. St Barnabas hospital in the Bronx contracted their radiology services out. Since they didn't need in house radiology anymore, they kicked out their radiologists and shut down the residency program, and left residents wit no spots. The hospital also refused to release the funding for the program and instead transferred the spots to their family practice residency, which was super shady. In the shady AOA world, this is considered acceptable behavior.


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ACGME issued a decision today on the appeal - the residency program will not be granted accreditation.
 
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Sad for the residents but not sad for USACS.
 
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EctopicFetus said:
Sad for the residents but not sad for USACS.
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I'm sure USACS would have liked to keep the residency. Labor you don't have to pay for and the ability to recruit with the lure of having minions aren't nothing.
 
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Arcan57 said:
I'm sure USACS would have liked to keep the residency. Labor you don't have to pay for and the ability to recruit with the lure of having minions aren't nothing.
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i should have said I am sad for the residents. I am not sad for USACS. They may be the filthiest of the CMGs (though I know they claim to be democrcatic)
 
Did you see the back page of your ACEP NOW this month? It's a full page advertisement "open letter" to emergency docs trying to justify what they did at Summa. Serious spin they're working there. Amazing how high a proportion of the ad space in that throwaway is purchased by CMGs.

Must be feeling some heat to run that ad and not worry that you might be telling some emergency docs something they don't already know.
 
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The White Coat Investor said:
Did you see the back page of your ACEP NOW this month? It's a full page advertisement "open letter" to emergency docs trying to justify what they did at Summa. Serious spin they're working there. Amazing how high a proportion of the ad space in that throwaway is purchased by CMGs.

Must be feeling some heat to run that ad and not worry that you might be telling some emergency docs something they don't already know.
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I thought about sending that page back to the publisher.
 
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Members don't see this ad :)
The White Coat Investor said:
Did you see the back page of your ACEP NOW this month? It's a full page advertisement "open letter" to emergency docs trying to justify what they did at Summa. Serious spin they're working there. Amazing how high a proportion of the ad space in that throwaway is purchased by CMGs.

Must be feeling some heat to run that ad and not worry that you might be telling some emergency docs something they don't already know.
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It's politician-level spin. A full-page ad, plenty of words, but doesn't say anything of substance at all.
 
I had personally spoken to ACEP's president elect and told him they should pull all of USACS 's ads for their newsletter. He did not appear very receptive to the idea.


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The White Coat Investor said:
Did you see the back page of your ACEP NOW this month? It's a full page advertisement "open letter" to emergency docs trying to justify what they did at Summa. Serious spin they're working there. Amazing how high a proportion of the ad space in that throwaway is purchased by CMGs.

Must be feeling some heat to run that ad and not worry that you might be telling some emergency docs something they don't already know.
Click to expand...

Would love to see this, if someone would be kind enough to post a picture.
 
The CEO seems to think that some level of physician ownership makes what they did okay. "We're just a bunch of groups banded together." It isn't physician ownership that matters, it's the predatorial way they took the contract. If the SEA docs came to USACS and said, "Let's band together, we want to be USACS docs," that would be fine with me. But that's not what happened. SEA was prey and USACS was predator. That's not the way emergency docs should treat each other.

If, as he maintains, Summa came to him and said "we need you," the answer should have been "have the SEA docs give me a call and I'll see if they want to join us." Anything else is predatorial. Is it "just business?" Sure. But should we be "just businessing" other emergency docs? I don't think so. My group doesn't do it. The only groups that join us are groups that come to us and ask to join.
 
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The White Coat Investor said:
The CEO seems to think that some level of physician ownership makes what they did okay. "We're just a bunch of groups banded together." It isn't physician ownership that matters, it's the predatorial way they took the contract. If the SEA docs came to USACS and said, "Let's band together, we want to be USACS docs," that would be fine with me. But that's not what happened. SEA was prey and USACS was predator. That's not the way emergency docs should treat each other.

If, as he maintains, Summa came to him and said "we need you," the answer should have been "have the SEA docs give me a call and I'll see if they want to join us." Anything else is predatorial. Is it "just business?" Sure. But should we be "just businessing" other emergency docs? I don't think so. My group doesn't do it. The only groups that join us are groups that come to us and ask to join.
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This corporatization of EM (and medicine in general) would make a great WCI feature. Not that you need anyone telling you what to write :)
 
The White Coat Investor said:
The CEO seems to think that some level of physician ownership makes what they did okay. "We're just a bunch of groups banded together." It isn't physician ownership that matters, it's the predatorial way they took the contract. If the SEA docs came to USACS and said, "Let's band together, we want to be USACS docs," that would be fine with me. But that's not what happened. SEA was prey and USACS was predator. That's not the way emergency docs should treat each other.

If, as he maintains, Summa came to him and said "we need you," the answer should have been "have the SEA docs give me a call and I'll see if they want to join us." Anything else is predatorial. Is it "just business?" Sure. But should we be "just businessing" other emergency docs? I don't think so. My group doesn't do it. The only groups that join us are groups that come to us and ask to join.
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That would require some sense of ethics to anyone but self. One thing I have learned from this board is that by and large EM physicians are out for themselves - how can one squeeze another dollar per hour for themselves even if it means selling a colleague down the river. (Of course this is in no way limited to EM or even medicine.) Few are willing to make sacrifices or take a stand for the greater good. In that sense I applaud SEA for playing hardball, even if it didn't go as they hoped. Even if they "lost", I am hopeful that if a similar situation were to arise (which we can bet it will) that the health system and the predatory group will be more likely to assure a smooth transition at least, or ideally, for the health system to put more effort in to working out a deal with the existing group.
 
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USACS has gotten where they are today by doing something similar in many respects to what they did in Akron, many times, in many places.
 
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The White Coat Investor said:
The CEO seems to think that some level of physician ownership makes what they did okay. "We're just a bunch of groups banded together." It isn't physician ownership that matters, it's the predatorial way they took the contract. If the SEA docs came to USACS and said, "Let's band together, we want to be USACS docs," that would be fine with me. But that's not what happened. SEA was prey and USACS was predator. That's not the way emergency docs should treat each other.

If, as he maintains, Summa came to him and said "we need you," the answer should have been "have the SEA docs give me a call and I'll see if they want to join us." Anything else is predatorial. Is it "just business?" Sure. But should we be "just businessing" other emergency docs? I don't think so. My group doesn't do it. The only groups that join us are groups that come to us and ask to join.
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Just for future reference, is there a way to know (if one is working locums) that you aren't making something like this possible?

I'm all for working locums to let docs take vacations or medical leave...I don't want to be a part of covering the gap when a hospital screws an sdg acting in good faith.
 
The White Coat Investor said:
The CEO seems to think that some level of physician ownership makes what they did okay. "We're just a bunch of groups banded together." It isn't physician ownership that matters, it's the predatorial way they took the contract. If the SEA docs came to USACS and said, "Let's band together, we want to be USACS docs," that would be fine with me. But that's not what happened. SEA was prey and USACS was predator. That's not the way emergency docs should treat each other.

If, as he maintains, Summa came to him and said "we need you," the answer should have been "have the SEA docs give me a call and I'll see if they want to join us." Anything else is predatorial. Is it "just business?" Sure. But should we be "just businessing" other emergency docs? I don't think so. My group doesn't do it. The only groups that join us are groups that come to us and ask to join.
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I read it as a veiled resistance is futile message.
 
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bravotwozero said:
I had personally spoken to ACEP's president elect and told him they should pull all of USACS 's ads for their newsletter. He did not appear very receptive to the idea.
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Is this the same USACS that appears to employ the author of the "legislative" article on page 5?
DR. CIRILLO is director of health policy and legislative advocacy for US Acute Care Solutions in Canton, Ohio, and past chair of the ACEP Federal Government Affairs Committee
Perhaps there is more than one reason ACEP is not so interested in pulling USACS ads.
HH
 
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This is an interesting sentence, "Dozens of...APPs...picked up shifts to ensure every patient...was seen and treated by a board-certified emergency physician." (edited for clarity)
 
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WilcoWorld said:
This is an interesting sentence, "Dozens of...APPs...picked up shifts to ensure every patient...was seen and treated by a board-certified emergency physician." (edited for clarity)
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Except the BCEM docs sometimes didn't see the patients (allegedly) prior to discharge.
 
USACS has their claws firmly planted in ACEP. One big reason I haven't renewed my ACEP for the past 2 year. You will often see them listed as a "Diamond" or "Platinum" contributor to ACEP Scientific Assembly. There are too many people at ACEP who are reliant on the money from CMGS for their jobs. They aren't going to bite the hand that feeds them.

Dr. Cirillo is indeed employed by USACS (and before that EMP). He is their go-to for legislative and executive action. I've met him a few times and can't say he's a bad guy. The annual shakedown of their docs for "Give A Shift" donations to NEMPAC are a bit of a nuisance.
 
I would be curious if Summa released their funding? I am assuming they havent and as such they would be unfunded spots.
 
EctopicFetus said:
I would be curious if Summa released their funding? I am assuming they havent and as such they would be unfunded spots.
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I thought the system didn't have a choice - the residency closes, the residents go elsewhere, and bring their money with them. It's not Summa's to withhold.
 
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Apollyon said:
I thought the system didn't have a choice - the residency closes, the residents go elsewhere, and bring their money with them. It's not Summa's to withhold.
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When LA County got rid of us, they forced us to sign a waiver saying we wouldn't sue them, and in exchange they would release funding.
 
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TimesNewRoman said:
Only 1 year out of residency. What happened?
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Welcome to 2004.
LA Times did this series:
The Troubles at King/Drew

Which lead to the Joint Commission putting King/Drew on probation... which they failed to fix by the next review... which lead to the Joint Commission withdrawing accreditation.

With no accreditation, no Medicare funding... which cost the hospital about half of their funding... which meant that King Drew closed their doors. Also, the fact that the hospital lost accreditation meant that they also lost their residency accreditation.
 
Siggy said:
Welcome to 2004.
LA Times did this series:
The Troubles at King/Drew

Which lead to the Joint Commission putting King/Drew on probation... which they failed to fix by the next review... which lead to the Joint Commission withdrawing accreditation.

With no accreditation, no Medicare funding... which cost the hospital about half of their funding... which meant that King Drew closed their doors. Also, the fact that the hospital lost accreditation meant that they also lost their residency accreditation.
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Ah. Didn't know that was LA-County.
 
GeneralVeers said:
USACS has their claws firmly planted in ACEP. One big reason I haven't renewed my ACEP for the past 2 year. You will often see them listed as a "Diamond" or "Platinum" contributor to ACEP Scientific Assembly. There are too many people at ACEP who are reliant on the money from CMGS for their jobs. They aren't going to bite the hand that feeds them.

Dr. Cirillo is indeed employed by USACS (and before that EMP). He is their go-to for legislative and executive action. I've met him a few times and can't say he's a bad guy. The annual shakedown of their docs for "Give A Shift" donations to NEMPAC are a bit of a nuisance.
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ACEP members who agree with Veers' assertions may consider cancelling their ACEP memberships by emailing [email protected] and letting them know that the USACS conflict of interest is a step too far.

I did.
 
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WilcoWorld said:
ACEP members who agree with Veers' assertions may consider cancelling their ACEP memberships by emailing [email protected] and letting them know that the USACS conflict of interest is a step too far.

I did.
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ya im tempted too as well.

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In the "adding insult to injury" category, I'm told that the residents have lost their matching 403(b) funds because they separated before the 3 year vesting period was over. So this thing is literally taking thousands of dollars in real money away from the residents, not even considering the moving costs.
 
The White Coat Investor said:
In the "adding insult to injury" category, I'm told that the residents have lost their matching 403(b) funds because they separated before the 3 year vesting period was over. So this thing is literally taking thousands of dollars in real money away from the residents, not even considering the moving costs.
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Yeah that's something that even if the 3 years thing is the rule you bend it in this case since its not like the residents had any choice in the matter. Would've been a good PR move which they desperately need.
 
GeneralVeers said:
There are too many people at ACEP who are reliant on the money from CMGS for their jobs. They aren't going to bite the hand that feeds them.
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I dislike USACS as much as the next guy... but

Haven't we to some extent done this to ourselves? 99% of the front line docs I know don't contribute to NEMPAC, to cite your example. It's no wonder ACEP is so dependent on CMG funds.
 
goodoldalky said:
I dislike USACS as much as the next guy... but

Haven't we to some extent done this to ourselves? 99% of the front line docs I know don't contribute to NEMPAC, to cite your example. It's no wonder ACEP is so dependent on CMG funds.
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I agree, however NEMPAC is just a legislative arm for the CMGS. They promote some things that help us like EMTALA protections, but they don't fight for lower taxes. They also tend to not oppose or weakly support single payer options which drive up ED visits. Anything that increases ED utilization is good for CMGS as they get to collect billing/coding/malpractice on every single one of those patients, even if the physician isn't reimbursed much (or at all) for seeing them.
 
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Agree with Veers. If you want to support SDG's, joining AAEM is probably a better move than joining NEMPAC.
 
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VA Hopeful Dr said:
Yeah that's something that even if the 3 years thing is the rule you bend it in this case since its not like the residents had any choice in the matter. Would've been a good PR move which they desperately need.
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Completely awful, if true. And I have no reason to doubt WCI's sources. That's clearly an institution medical students would be wise to avoid ranking, in all specialties.
 
GeneralVeers said:
I agree, however NEMPAC is just a legislative arm for the CMGs.
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That's because your average ED doc does not contribute any time or money to the efforts of NEMPAC. If they did, and the PAC functioned based on the time and money of Joe Doc as opposed to the time and money of CMG, it's activity would more closely resemble the agenda of Joe Doc. Same with ACEP as a whole.

This is a strange predicament to be in, caused by those of us who did or who are selling our specialty down the river a la CMG. The activity of PACs is extremely important legislatively, as evidenced by the current economic environment enjoyed by those represented by the largest specialty PAC (Ortho) and all of the reimbursement advantages that go into their current practice environment.

I sympathize with the cause and stance of AAEM but find its influence to be limited. It's all rather maddening if you think about it.
 
Dr Mantis Toboggan said:
Completely awful, if true. And I have no reason to doubt WCI's sources. That's clearly an institution medical students would be wise to avoid ranking, in all specialties.
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I've spoken to residents in other specialties at the hospital. Their volume is way down because the ED volume is way down because EMS is taking the patients elsewhere (the EMS med directors were all SEA docs.)

At any rate, it's in the 403(b) document, so that's the way it is. I doubt anyone ever thought about this when they drew up the document though.

I noticed in this months Annals that there is a news article about the whole thing. You know, when everyone is talking about what you did, you did it wrong.
 
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Apollyon said:
I thought the system didn't have a choice - the residency closes, the residents go elsewhere, and bring their money with them. It's not Summa's to withhold.
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The money is tied to spots in the hospital not to those residents or even to EM residents.
 
So, just to prove a point, can we have the USACS people who helped destroy this residency program take the stupid AAMC professionalism video interview and see how they do? I just want to see the psychologist graders' thought process: " well, they did aggressively overtake a 40 year SDG and destroy a residency program, so they lose a half point, but their pupils were sufficiently dilated, and they had great posture and smile, so plus 2 points for that..."
 
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