Student Loan Debt Anxiety

[Daniel M. Pitta]

At what point do you begin to think about how the student loan debt you incur as part of pursuing a DPT factor into your decision to apply to programs? I am still working on prereqs, but every time I explain to people that finishing my degree will put me six figures in debt, with a starting salary of ~$70k, I get gawks and ghasps, at which point it sinks in how expensive this whole venture is.

Do you think that the amount of debt is worth the career of being a PT? If not, what other careers in healthcare have you considered? I at one point was thinking about going to school to become an OT, and it still is in the back of my mind should the PT route not work out for me.

Thanks for your feedback

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[starrsgirl]

To me, the debt required to become a PT was a MAJOR factor in the decision. I don't think the *average* amount of debt a student is taking out is worth being a PT. That said, I go to an inexpensive state school and I'm pretty OK with most of my classmates debt load (I feel like generally people don't have a lot of undergrad debt and are cutting costs in a lot of ways in school.) My personal limit for the debt required for the career change should be right around 1 year of salary and not more (ie, my goal going in was to stay below 80K total debt). I know that is conservative. I'm an older student, I have paid my undergrad debt already and I know how much debt accrues and how much large payments impact your ability to live on a salary. I think PT has gottten completely out of hand tuition wise (compared to salary). I don't think OT is any better (in fact could be slightly worse).

If I had to do it all over again, I would look seriously at PA, nurse practitioner and medical school. I regret not pursuing PA but it would have taken me another year of pre reqs. I really wanted to go to medical school but it just didn't work with my family. I like PT, don't get me wrong. It's probably my "favorite" environment to work in....but I would not have pursued it if my debt load was high. I'm only able to do what I want because this is a cheap schooling option for me. (I'm not so idealistic that I think you should do exactly what you want no matter what. I think you have to balance what you want with finances.)

 

[dianebiz]

I think that the new PTs out there have to try to negotiate higher salaries that correspond with the doctorate that is now required of them. Don't settle for salaries that were meant for PTs who have Masters degrees or lower. I know the older PTs have lots more experience, but we have to start changing things somewhere.

 

[deleted480308]

baylor army dpt....I wouldn't recommend my kid using loans for a DPT with the salary outlook, doesn't add up

 

[engmedpt]

baylor army dpt....I wouldn't recommend my kid using loans for a DPT with the salary outlook, doesn't add up

I've said this before. It depends. If it can be kept to five figures then it's fine. It can all get paid off.

You're right though, Baylor dpt is a good gig for sure. I think it's incredibly competitive. Good advice on that program. A lot don't know about it.

 

[DesertPT]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/search/

Seriously...there's a lot of reading you could do on this topic. Keep in mind - opinions are like buttholes...

 

[scrawnyguy]

I've said this before. It depends. If it can be kept to five figures then it's fine. It can all get paid off.

You're right though, Baylor dpt is a good gig for sure. I think it's incredibly competitive. Good advice on that program. A lot don't know about it.

Shhhh...I'm applying to Army-Baylor's next class and I'm trying to keep it a secret.

 

[DesertPT]

I at one point was thinking about going to school to become an OT, and it still is in the back of my mind should the PT route not work out for me.

Being an OT is no better as far as debt:income ratio, especially now that programs are lengthening.

 

[southernswimmer]

Being an OT is no better as far as debt:income ratio, especially now that programs are lengthening.

And I believe they want to move to the OTD soon too.

 

[engmedpt]

And I believe they want to move to the OTD soon too.

Ya.....it will be a political move that precedes public opinion and respect as well as salary. No clue how it will turn out.

 

[engmedpt]

Refer above

 

[GoSparta]

Here's my thoughts on this, and of course many people can counter with my logic; I'm, okay with that and welcome it for the sake of good discussion:

- If you love it, do it. You heard it all before, most PT's love what they do and have a lot of flexibility with schedule and type of work (travel, inpatient, outpatient, etc.)

- America's the few countries where you can have comfortable life with debt. Be frugal, pay off as much as you can of your loan, but don't think it will completely ruin your life if you have a 70k salary job. Chances are if you got into PT school, you are logical enough to be financially smart, and 70,000 isn't too bad relative to other jobs.

- My career is in the fitness field. Personal training (6 years exp.) wise, I get 55 - 90 per hours, but 40 hours a week is hard to come by and there's so many large gaps it becomes a grind (I'll disclose my salary; even with that grind I made 51k before taxes). This also means no benefits or paid vacation time. I was also offered a management job for a corporate fitness company in CA (CA, so think higher wages due to living cost here), and they offered 45k + bonuses + benefits (I'd also be required to still train raising it to about 52-54k a year w/o bonuses included). Not enough considering an avg. home price in Silicon Valley is about 900k. Other coworkers who worked similar positions for similar pay said they grind you to 60 hours a week and huge sales pressure. If I wanted to make 70k in that job I would have to grind for about 6-10 years just to get paid 70k annually assuming I don't burn out. So to me, 2 years in school with 6 figure debt is okay because I know my earning potential, potential raises, and ability to work PRN with a PT license is better. In short, return of investment is better than doing your current job, unless you're already at 70k salary.

- A well-known PT around the area talked to us all about the importance about post-bac degrees. Many people will call you crazy for accumulating debt or going back to school for years (2-4 years for any more school sounds insane short term), but when you come back with your new degree and new job, you will see those people in the exact same job, doing the exact same thing.

- With a license you have access to a great job market that others without your education/license can not access.

 

[engmedpt]

Heads up......interest rates on the fed will be decreasing for this academic schoolyear as of july 1st.

 

[ktachiba]

I also wouldn't underestimate the burden of working a boring job. Being able to wake up in the morning and look forward to going to work is something that money cannot buy. Even if my current job paid me 100K a year, I would quit because it's boring and stresses me out.

 

[flyingsquirrel]

Here's my thoughts on this, and of course many people can counter with my logic; I'm, okay with that and welcome it for the sake of good discussion:

- If you love it, do it. You heard it all before, most PT's love what they do and have a lot of flexibility with schedule and type of work (travel, inpatient, outpatient, etc.)

- America's the few countries where you can have comfortable life with debt. Be frugal, pay off as much as you can of your loan, but don't think it will completely ruin your life if you have a 70k salary job. Chances are if you got into PT school, you are logical enough to be financially smart, and 70,000 isn't too bad relative to other jobs.

- My career is in the fitness field. Personal training (6 years exp.) wise, I get 55 - 90 per hours, but 40 hours a week is hard to come by and there's so many large gaps it becomes a grind (I'll disclose my salary; even with that grind I made 51k before taxes). This also means no benefits or paid vacation time. I was also offered a management job for a corporate fitness company in CA (CA, so think higher wages due to living cost here), and they offered 45k + bonuses + benefits (I'd also be required to still train raising it to about 52-54k a year w/o bonuses included). Not enough considering an avg. home price in Silicon Valley is about 900k. Other coworkers who worked similar positions for similar pay said they grind you to 60 hours a week and huge sales pressure. If I wanted to make 70k in that job I would have to grind for about 6-10 years just to get paid 70k annually assuming I don't burn out. So to me, 2 years in school with 6 figure debt is okay because I know my earning potential, potential raises, and ability to work PRN with a PT license is better. In short, return of investment is better than doing your current job, unless you're already at 70k salary.

- A well-known PT around the area talked to us all about the importance about post-bac degrees. Many people will call you crazy for accumulating debt or going back to school for years (2-4 years for any more school sounds insane short term), but when you come back with your new degree and new job, you will see those people in the exact same job, doing the exact same thing.

- With a license you have access to a great job market that others without your education/license can not access.

Umm... If I had a job that paid 50k a year with benefits, already with the potential to make 70k annually in the next 6-10 years. There would be no way in hell I'd go to PT school for financial reasons. PT clinics ALSO grind you 60 hours a week if you include the paperwork sometimes.

2 years of school means you lost 2 years worth of salary. Which in your case would be about 100k. Then you add the debt your taking on, and that would be another 100k with interest. If you made 20k more a year, it would take you ten more years to make up for that difference not including interest and by that time... you'll be making 70k with your non PT route job anyway. Also, your earning potential as a PT is just as severally capped due to insurance reimbursements.

You would increase your options, and will be in a different area of work. However, you WOULD NOT be better of financially at least... not significantly.

 

[engmedpt]

Umm... If I had a job that paid 50k a year with benefits, already with the potential to make 70k annually in the next 6-10 years. There would be no way in hell I'd go to PT school for financial reasons. PT clinics ALSO grind you 60 hours a week if you include the paperwork sometimes.

2 years of school means you lost 2 years worth of salary. Which in your case would be about 100k. Then you add the debt your taking on, and that would be another 100k with interest. If you made 20k more a year, it would take you ten more years to make up for that difference not including interest and by that time... you'll be making 70k with your non PT route job anyway. Also, your earning potential as a PT is just as severally capped due to insurance reimbursements.

You would increase your options, and will be in a different area of work. However, you WOULD NOT be better of financially at least... not significantly.

If you don't wanna do PT then switch your major to finance, CS, or software engineering and waste your life away existing behind a desk and computer screen with the rest of corporate America.

 

[flyingsquirrel]

If you don't wanna do PT then switch your major to finance, CS, or software engineering and waste your life away existing behind a desk and computer screen with the rest of corporate America.

Except that in this case... he has a fitness and health career training people to move better without the heavy paperwork (corporate insurance, desk + computer screen time) that is associated with physical therapy. Not to say that a management position doesn't have paperwork, but the paperwork in a physical therapy position (especially management in physical therapy) has far more paperwork than a any health fitness club manager.

A personal training session gives you an ENTIRE hour with a client working on health and exercise. Then in the end you might have to do some noncomplicated paperwork. Sure, you have to do marketing and sales. This is a rare gift, and somehow you are able to make that all happen and make the same salary as a PT. I wouldn't want to waste that.

I'd be living in paradise if I have 1 hour for a patient with little paperwork afterwards. In fact, I'd even be willing to lower my salary if that were possible.

If you feel like you would make a better difference in the world having 30 mins a patient with 5-10 mins of paper after each patient back to back...(15 patients a day) and make the same amount of money you are making now. Then by all means.

 

[engmedpt]

training people to move better

LOL

 

[starrsgirl]

Coming from a few years working as a trainer myself.....I also made decent money (likely more per hour than I will see as a PT), but some big considerations for me were the hours and career longevity. If you want to do really well as a trainer you work very early mornings and after work hours. That's when the clients who have the money can train. So when you have a family and such, those hours get pretty difficult. Second, although there are a few, there aren't many "older" personal trainers. The job market gets a bit smaller as you age....basically trainers get some clients by having a certain look in the gym. People have an idea about you because you are ripped/lean....but you won't attract clients in the same way at 50+. So physical therapy wins on both of those levels.

On a separate note, before I was a personal trainer, I also had a job where I made more than I will make as a PT. The *only* reason I was able to leave that job with a clear mind was that my schooling cost is very low. I can slide to a lower income level for higher job satisfaction because I don't have to pay a lot to do so. If I had to pay $160K, it would not be worth it. My job skills would be adequate and I would simply have to look for other ways to get life satisfaction. I'm clearly not an advocate of "do whatever your heart wants" because it's just not practical. There needs to be a balance.

 

[GoSparta]

Except that in this case... he has a fitness and health career training people to move better without the heavy paperwork (corporate insurance, desk + computer screen time) that is associated with physical therapy. Not to say that a management position doesn't have paperwork, but the paperwork in a physical therapy position (especially management in physical therapy) has far more paperwork than a any health fitness club manager.

A personal training session gives you an ENTIRE hour with a client working on health and exercise. Then in the end you might have to do some noncomplicated paperwork. Sure, you have to do marketing and sales. This is a rare gift, and somehow you are able to make that all happen and make the same salary as a PT. I wouldn't want to waste that.

I'd be living in paradise if I have 1 hour for a patient with little paperwork afterwards. In fact, I'd even be willing to lower my salary if that were possible.

If you feel like you would make a better difference in the world having 30 mins a patient with 5-10 mins of paper after each patient back to back...(15 patients a day) and make the same amount of money you are making now. Then by all means.

You have some great points and I respect it. Starrsgirl mentions below some of the difficult parts of being a personal trainer that just really feels like a grind sooner or later. Last month I saw 90 people (which isn't even considered much), and this month is only 30 due to vacation and other unpredictable things. Additionally, as the fitness manager it is a ton more paperwork than you think. As much as PT, probably not, but the days are filled with making projections meeting with other departments (I'm in a club with other departments), billing for group exercise, marketing, team meetings, etc. Generally our current manager spends about 6 hours a day training, and then spends 6 hours going to meetings on and off-site in between her paperwork. Can systems be better and more efficient? Sure, but that's not something that can easily be changed. But now, I'm getting too specific and off topic.

I am not being naive though. I fully expect to grind as a PT to find time to make things work. And you're right financially about the 2 years of no income etc. Good points. Just wanted to add some thinking points for him to consider.

 

[Daniel M. Pitta]

Funny that there are some other personal trainers ITT. I have been training for about 5 years now, and am doing it full-time this summer between working at 1 health club and doing in-homes. I'm making decent money doing what I love, but to me personal training is not sustainable over the long haul for the same reasons stated above. As I get older, I want a more stable job that I don't need to wake up at the crack of dawn to prepare for, with huge gaps in my schedule, no benefits, and uncertainty about whether clients will renew, go on vacation, move, etc. It is a great learning experience that translates well to PT, though.

 

[FitPanda]

The ACUTE anxiety hit me 2 months and 5 days before the first day of orientation! I am totally freaking out about the prospect of paying 2k month for 10 years... and I won't be a spring chicken at that point. I'll be in my late 30s when I can start paying back that debt.

 

[pegasuscvc]

You realize you resurrected a 2-year-old thread I assume? I'm really wondering why you'd be paying 2K a month? A rough estimation says that would put you $180K in debt. What on Earth would possess you to do such a thing?? Even the most expensive private schools don't usually put you that much in the hole, and there are many, many schools that you can easily do it for half that or less.

 

[tpath11]

baylor army dpt....I wouldn't recommend my kid using loans for a DPT with the salary outlook, doesn't add up

This option works for some, but you have to work in the Army for 4 or 5 years after, esentially taking about a 20k paycut from an avg civilian pt job for 4-5 years. That adds up to 80-100k so it's not really that much better if at all in the long run. Remember kids, nothing is free in the world lol

 

[scrawnyguy]

This option works for some, but you have to work in the Army for 4 or 5 years after, esentially taking about a 20k paycut from an avg civilian pt job for 4-5 years. That adds up to 80-100k so it's not really that much better if at all in the long run. Remember kids, nothing is free in the world lol

How much do you think military PTs get paid? I doubt the difference is 20K a year. Someone coming into the program with absolutely no military experience is making just north of 80k just out of school. Promotion to O-3 is pretty much automatic and happens within a year or so which bumps pay closer to the 90K mark. This is based off a housing allowance for San Antonio which has a relatively low COL.

On top of not having to pay tuition there's another perk which is getting a pretty decent salary while in school. It's somewhere in the neighborhood of 55K during year 1 to around 7oK by year 3. It's not all peaches and cream though. You owe your respective branch 54 months after graduation. In that time you can be stationed just about anywhere which includes some less than awesome locales. With the state of world affairs deployments are also a very real possibility. That alone is a deal breaker for many. I do agree that the program isn't "free" but financially it's still a pretty amazing deal.

 

[starrsgirl]

This option works for some, but you have to work in the Army for 4 or 5 years after, esentially taking about a 20k paycut from an avg civilian pt job for 4-5 years. That adds up to 80-100k so it's not really that much better if at all in the long run. Remember kids, nothing is free in the world lol

This is not correct. It may have been back in the day, but not anymore. I'm about to graduate and the reality is that you will make an average 20K MORE in the military versus civilian starting salary. In my area, civilian starting salaries are right at 60K (midwest). If I am able to return to the military, I will make about 84K (figuring midwest housing allowance and such). There is a reason it's VERY difficult to get in the military as a PT right now.

 

[Armyhealth]

Army Healthcare recruiter here! Putting a PT in the active Army right now, we added up his Salary/benefits as if he was working at Fort Drum since that is where he wants to go. Came out to around 81K as a starting PT.

That also does not include the 120K student loan repayment he will be getting.

 

[kima1993]

Army Healthcare recruiter here! Putting a PT in the active Army right now, we added up his Salary/benefits as if he was working at Fort Drum since that is where he wants to go. Came out to around 81K as a starting PT.

That also does not include the 120K student loan repayment he will be getting.

Are there benefits for officers who are already in the national guard component whom will be going to physical therapy school?

 

[Armyhealth]

No, because the Army has it's own graduate program there are no incentives for students. In fact the only way to join as a student PT is through PT Baylor.

 

[starrsgirl]

Army Healthcare recruiter here! Putting a PT in the active Army right now, we added up his Salary/benefits as if he was working at Fort Drum since that is where he wants to go. Came out to around 81K as a starting PT.

That also does not include the 120K student loan repayment he will be getting.

Awesome to hear about the loan repayment options! I knew that was a thing of the past for a while. How would you describe the current need in the Army for PTs? Low, medium, high?

 

[Armyhealth]

Awesome to hear about the loan repayment options! I knew that was a thing of the past for a while. How would you describe the current need in the Army for PTs? Low, medium, high?

It is always pretty low since we have our own graduate program that fills most the positions. We usually have 2-5 positions per year for active and reserves for direct applicants.

 

[FitPanda]

You realize you resurrected a 2-year-old thread I assume? I'm really wondering why you'd be paying 2K a month? A rough estimation says that would put you $180K in debt. What on Earth would possess you to do such a thing?? Even the most expensive private schools don't usually put you that much in the hole, and there are many, many schools that you can easily do it for half that or less.

Hi, yes I could have gone to a cheaper program. But in my second year of applying, I only got into one. So that is the school I went to.
Happy to report that I manage to work approx 15 hours per week while in PT school, so I anticipate this going a long way in reducing my debt... hopefully to 160k@ graduation