Step 2 CK lower than Step 1 and Applying to IM

[IM2018]

Hi. I am wondering if I can get any input of where I stand for residency application now that I have a below average step 2 ck score. I was taken by surprise when I received a 235, (I'd been getting 250s on my practice exams.) The margin of error puts me right at average but I'm not sure if programs care about the margin of error. My step 1 score was 237. I am applying to IM. I honored IM and 3 other core clerkships (high pass the other 3,) have decent extracurriculars, go to a top 15 medical school in the US. I'm really not fishing, would like to know if I will be able to get into competitive academic residencies or if I ruined my chances with a below average step 2 score.

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[BigSkyMontana45]

Those scores are identical and considered average - shouldnt hold yoi back.

 

[LyMed]

While it's not preferred, there's not much you can do about it now. Just keep boosting your CV and I think you'll be fine.

 

[W19]

Top 15 med school
Above average step 1
Honor in 4 clerkships
Good ECs
A minor blip on step 2

and OP is concerned about matching into a good IM academic program...

Now people can se why I am afraid I might not even match into a run-of-the-mill IMG sweatshop... These are the posts that keep me up at night!

 

[tantacles]

Hi. I am wondering if I can get any input of where I stand for residency application now that I have a below average step 2 ck score. I was taken by surprise when I received a 235, (I'd been getting 250s on my practice exams.) The margin of error puts me right at average but I'm not sure if programs care about the margin of error. My step 1 score was 237. I am applying to IM. I honored IM and 3 other core clerkships (high pass the other 3,) have decent extracurriculars, go to a top 15 medical school in the US. I'm really not fishing, would like to know if I will be able to get into competitive academic residencies or if I ruined my chances with a below average step 2 score.

Your Step 2 score ruined nothing, but your step 1 score and limited honors will make things a little bit harder for you, and your pedigree will cancel some of that out. My suggestion is that you apply broadly and make sure that you consider those top tier programs to be "extra" applications. There are a ton of great academic programs that will be delighted to have you based on these stats.

 

[mcloaf]

Your Step 2 score ruined nothing, but your step 1 score and limited honors will make things a little bit harder for you, and your pedigree will cancel some of that out. My suggestion is that you apply broadly and make sure that you consider those top tier programs to be "extra" applications. There are a ton of great academic programs that will be delighted to have you based on these stats.

I could see step score being limiting, but an M3 transcript that reads 4H/3HP (with H in IM) seems respectable unless OP is at a school that's known for giving out very easy grades.

 

[tantacles]

I could see step score being limiting, but an M3 transcript that reads 4H/3HP (with H in IM) seems respectable unless OP is at a school that's known for giving out very easy grades.

It is respectable, but not stellar.

 

[mcloaf]

It is respectable, but not stellar.

Interesting. I guess I'm glad I'm applying to a field that mostly just cares how you did in specialty-specific rotations. It's amazing to me that after going through this process and seeing how clinical grades are assigned a PD in Medicine could think H vs. HP in psychiatry would have any bearing on an applicant's attractiveness. Edit: I'm sure they don't actually think of it like that, I assume it's just a count of X honors, but even so, it seems ridiculous.

 

[tantacles]

Interesting. I guess I'm glad I'm applying to a field that mostly just cares how you did in specialty-specific rotations. It's amazing to me that after going through this process and seeing how clinical grades are assigned a PD in Medicine could think H vs. HP in psychiatry would have any bearing on an applicant's attractiveness. Edit: I'm sure they don't actually think of it like that, I assume it's just a count of X honors, but even so, it seems ridiculous.

It matters because we're comparing applicants, not just saying "you did well" and giving you a pat on the back. If MGH can interview someone who honored everything, has a high step 1 score, and goes to a great school, why would they, if there's only one spot available, offer one to someone who has a good step 1 score, honored 4/7 rotations, and goes to a great school?

If there are enough spots to accommodate both, then sure! They'll accommodate both! But this process requires some sort of differentiation between applicants because of limited resources (administrative and financial), and this is it!


Large dogs

 

[mcloaf]

It matters because we're comparing applicants, not just saying "you did well" and giving you a pat on the back. If MGH can interview someone who honored everything, has a high step 1 score, and goes to a great school, why would they, if there's only one spot available, offer one to someone who has a good step 1 score, honored 4/7 rotations, and goes to a great school?

If there are enough spots to accommodate both, then sure! They'll accommodate both! But this process requires some sort of differentiation between applicants because of limited resources (administrative and financial), and this is it!


Large dogs

Sure, but it's a terrible metric of comparison due to the amount of subjectivity and non standardization of grading schemes between schools. At least using step scores is apples to apples. There's obviously discriminatory power if you're looking at applicants who either passed or honored everything, but using clinical grades to tease out such small differences is meaningless IMO.

 

[tantacles]

Sure, but it's a terrible metric of comparison due to the amount of subjectivity and non standardization of grading schemes between schools. At least using step scores is apples to apples. There's obviously discriminatory power if you're looking at applicants who either passed or honored everything, but using clinical grades to tease out such small differences is meaningless IMO.

That's not really what this thread is about. This thread is about the OP's competitiveness insofar as his/her metrics are concerned. If you want to have a debate about the validity of such scores, go ahead; debate yourself. But it doesn't change the bottom line, which is that right now, schools can and do screen and make very real decisions based on these factors.

We're not talking about OP's chance of getting into any good academic residency program. We're talking about OP's chance of getting interviews from some of the most competitive places in the nation.

 

[W19]

That's not really what this thread is about. This thread is about the OP's competitiveness insofar as his/her metrics are concerned. If you want to have a debate about the validity of such scores, go ahead; debate yourself. But it doesn't change the bottom line, which is that right now, schools can and do screen and make very real decisions based on these factors.

We're not talking about OP's chance of getting into any good academic residency program. We're talking about OP's chance of getting interviews from some of the most competitive places in the nation.

OP's post is about 'competitive academic residencies'

 

[Mad Jack]

Hi. I am wondering if I can get any input of where I stand for residency application now that I have a below average step 2 ck score. I was taken by surprise when I received a 235, (I'd been getting 250s on my practice exams.) The margin of error puts me right at average but I'm not sure if programs care about the margin of error. My step 1 score was 237. I am applying to IM. I honored IM and 3 other core clerkships (high pass the other 3,) have decent extracurriculars, go to a top 15 medical school in the US. I'm really not fishing, would like to know if I will be able to get into competitive academic residencies or if I ruined my chances with a below average step 2 score.

10/10 level neuroticism. Apply broadly to competitive programs and you'll be fine.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

I've always wondered which applicant is more appealing, one that has 250/230 on step1/CK or an applicant with 230/250?
Fi

 

[tantacles]

OP's post is about 'competitive academic residencies'

I agree. and that's what my post was addressing.

 

[Anicetus]

I've always wondered which applicant is more appealing, one that has 250/230 on step1/CK or an applicant with 230/250?
Fi

Step 1 importance has always been higher than step 2ck and that won't change in the near future so the 250/230 in that case is better.

Disclaimer for the devils advocate: I am clearly aware 2ck is gaining important though.

 

[Redpancreas]

OP's post is about 'competitive academic residencies'

Same here, due the a combination of my own faults and bad luck, I haven't managed to honor any clerkships but merely HP'ed 4 including IM. Peds was the latest let down where I honored the shelf by 6 points, but the rules said in order to HP you needed outstanding evals (but if you got outstanding evals and a 70 on shelf, that's honors). I have an above average Step and all I want is to match at an academic center that has a decent amount of US allopathic students. I'm starting to think that will be a challenge.

 

[W19]

Same here, due the a combination of my own faults and bad luck, I haven't managed to honor any clerkships but merely HP'ed 4 including IM. Peds was the latest let down where I honored the shelf by 6 points, but the rules said in order to HP you needed outstanding evals (but if you got outstanding evals and a 70 on shelf, that's honors). I have an above average Step and all I want is to match at an academic center that has a decent amount of US allopathic students. I'm starting to think that will be a challenge.

I think HP is not bad and if you score above average on step2 CK, I don't see why you won't be able to match at a good academic programs like CWRU, Umiami etc...I am using these 2 as example of good academic programs that I am somewhat familiar with...

 

[qwerty89]

Those scores are identical and considered average - shouldnt hold yoi back.

they are not identical. The average for step 2 is much higher. It was nearly 240 when I took it. Step 1 average is 230 ish.

A 250 step 1 is a rather high percentile while 235 step one is 40-50th percentile.

 

[ActinicKeratosis]

4/7 honors vs 7/7 honors I imagine hardly makes much of a difference. I think most sensible residency directors know that the system is terribly subjective and step scores are really the only objective measure.

 

[Dwan]

I'm not sure why everyone's talking as if these are bad clinical grades. 4/7 Honors is an amazing result for someone with a 230s step 2 (<50%tile). At my school, you need to be 85+%tile on shelf along with stellar evals just to get a single honors. Those who manage 4/7+ honors are typically AOAs.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

I've always wondered which applicant is more appealing, one that has 250/230 on step1/CK or an applicant with 230/250?
Fi

Neither. You both do to family Med

 

[tantacles]

Same here, due the a combination of my own faults and bad luck, I haven't managed to honor any clerkships but merely HP'ed 4 including IM. Peds was the latest let down where I honored the shelf by 6 points, but the rules said in order to HP you needed outstanding evals (but if you got outstanding evals and a 70 on shelf, that's honors). I have an above average Step and all I want is to match at an academic center that has a decent amount of US allopathic students. I'm starting to think that will be a challenge.

If your goal is actually only what you say it is, you should have no problem. However, I would wager that you have some sort of regional bias or bias for large cities. That being said, there are a lot of great academic programs that fit your description of what you want that are underrated or are in less desirable places (Case Western University Hospitals, IU, Alabama, and Utah, to give four examples I've seen that fit the bill, two of which I even didn't apply to) that people neglect to apply to because of location that get mostly American grads.