Starting Salary for DPT new-grads

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Before assuming a program has a "cap," I would 1) do the quick math to figure out what a suitably diverse class would look like, and B) try to research the % of applicants to that program that were black to begin with. The US population is 12% black, which means a DPT class of 30 people would ideally have 3.6 black people. However, we're forgetting one BIG thing there: the number of qualified applicants. All programs require a bachelor's degree, yes? Well, even though 12% of the general population is black, only 7.4% of the population eligible to apply for PT school (the college-degree holding population) are black, because only 20% of black adults over 25 hold a bachelors degree (as opposed to 32% of non-Hispanic whites). Assuming that degree-holding blacks are applying at the same rate as degree-holding non-Hispanic whites, and all are being accepted at the same rate, your diverse PT class suddenly looks different. To be exact, a class of 30 that matches the eligible population should have 2.2 black people. That may go up or down depending on where in the US you are. Areas with small black populations will have smaller black applicant pools (in most cases) and therefore fewer black students, while the reverse will be true in more diverse areas, but you get the idea. Also, cases like YoungMD above who look at PT and say with disgust, "That's a bunch of rich, suburban, white people. No way am I doing that!" don't help the matter. For one thing, it's stereotyping. For another thing, the profession will not diversify if minorities turn their noses up at it for not being diverse enough. That's a process that just goes around in circles.

I also said, "This lead me to believe (and, perhaps falsely, I will admit) that these programs had a "cap."

Look, my post wasn't about statistics. It was about the specter of being the only individual to represent my own minority group, and how socially/emotionally that could be tough to deal with. I thought I made it pretty clear that there would be no way in hell I would turn down a school for this reason alone. All I was doing was pointing out an issue that I know many minorities deal with all too often, but I was bringing it to the forefront for all to see.



"For another thing, the profession will not diversify if minorities turn their noses up at it for not being diverse enough. That's a process that just goes around in circles."

Although I don't agree with the "rich, white, suburban" statement, there is something to be said about seeing folks that look like you doing something, and following in their footsteps. And I wouldn't say "minorities turn their noses up at it." I will be joining the profession in a few years and my goal is to get out there and show other potential minorities that this is a great career path to choose, because frankly, this profession doesn't market itself enough. The APTA could do a lot more to help with this.

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Newest pooled data from indeed, bls, trackers within the field 2017:

Mean salary: 87.5k according to bls

Starting salary nationally is 72k +/- 15k according to trackers

Travel assignments are highest with 100k+
Home health is second highest grossing 100k if students are too deep but can't travel.
Acute, subacute, irf, and neuro are usually third.
Ortho and sports drop down due to chain clinics
Pediatrics is sadly usually lowest although variability is everywhere.

Prn can gross higher than $50. I see $65-$70 on some postings.

Some residencies are now 50k+ with some being full time pay scale just more didactic work in evenings aka 65k

Everyone make decisions and good luck.
 
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I have had a few interesting off-line discussions regarding home-health PT. I'll try to summarize the main points here:

- A common question is "how much does it pay?" It depends, as you can be paid by the billable hour, by the visit, or straight salary (I am in this last category). Pay by the "billable hour" seems to have the highest rate (a person told me that he got an offer for $80/hr, in an average cost-of-living area); however, the downside is you only get paid when you are directly treating the patient. Driving to/from the patient's place, calling up the MDs, documentation time, etc, is considered non-billable and so isn't paid. Pay by the visit, or "by points" means just that: you get a flat rate for each visit made. Currently the rate seems to be $45-$55/point, again in an average COL area. One regular visit equals one point, and a Medicare eval -where you have to fill out the dreaded Oasis form- commonly counts as 2.5 points. Accumulating 30 points/week seems to be the average requirement. And lastly, being on salary means you get $X per year. Salary offers seem to be in-line with average new-grad offers, $60 to $65K/yr.

- Mileage: it can vary quite a bit, from $0.25/mile to $0.535/mile (which is the IRS rate for 2017; it was $0.54 for 2016). From what I have seen, mileage and pay rate are the two ends of a teeter-totter: if you get a high mileage rate you'd most likely be offered a slightly lower visit rate, and vice-versa. Mileage from your house to your first patient, and from your last patient back to your house, doesn't count as those 2 trips are considered your normal commute.

A few things to keep in mind if you are offered a HH position:
- Unless you are on salary, get a really good feel for how many points or visits you are expected to make, and can realistically make, per week. Most places will say they have more business that they can handle, but if you can only scrounge up 15 visits/week, you can kiss that new Tesla S good-bye. And while there may be plenty of patients to be seen, the distances between patients will also affect your availability. For ex, yesterday I drove 68 mi to see 1 patient. So have a clear idea of your territory and the traffic conditions. If I were a HH PT in the Northern Va area, I would want a really really really compact area - I can remember taking 2 hrs to go 10 mi on the beltway there (I used to live in Fairfax county). Another thing to keep in mind is when you can see the patients: most people like to be seen between 10 am and 4 pm, so even though you may have enough patients on paper, you may not be able to get to them.

- Have a good understanding of how you'll be compensated for missed visits. Patients can be flaky, and may not be home when you show up - even if you have called the previous day to confirm. Will you be paid the mileage to drive to that house, and will you get any point credit (e.g, 0.2 or 0.25 point)?

- Mileage reimbursement can add to your paycheck, provided you don't have a gas-guzzler. And keep your car in tiptop condition; I check my oil, coolant, brake fluid, steering fluid, tire pressure and take a careful look under the body (esp the boots around the CV joints) religiously every weekend. If your car breaks down on a little-traveled country road in the boonies, it may be a while before a tow truck shows up. Check your car insurance and add towing coverage if you don't already have it, or get AAA. I had a breakdown once but luckily it was in a midsize city, even though most of my patients are in the surrounding rural areas.

- Even if the offer seems generous, don't forget to take a good look at the benefit package. To each his own, but I would want decent PTO, health and dental insurance and 401k matching. You never know when something bad is going to happen; believe me, I speak from personal experience.

- Check out the company's reviews on glassdoor.com and indeed.com. Reach out to your classmates and colleagues and try to find someone who has worked for that specific company before. The more information you can gather, the better the decision you'll make.

I hope others who have experience in HH will add to this thread.
 
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A couple of interesting salary discussions, in the DPT Facebook group:

Salaries of new & "recent" grads (< 5 yrs experience)

Home-health PT

Some of the high salaries are largely due to the current demand which goes to show that people in ridiculously deep can get out if flexible with environment, location, and contract work.

Another trend that I see is students learning much better negotiation and recognizing certain situations in which an employer is actively lowballing a massive subset of workers. The therapists that have been helping students out in that aspect have been doing a good job.
 
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If you look at the result of my salary survey (link on page 1 of this thread), you'll see that most new grads get offers between 60K-65K/yr. Travel PTs will make more than that and you'll see a few who report offers around 70K-85K in the survey. But one can't infer any trend, or average, from just 2 or 3 data points. And this onion has many layers: Texas can mean DFW, Houston, Austin, as well as the areas near the Mexico border where you may end up treating a Zeta cartel member...
Hi there, thanks for all the info! Do you have any more results pertaining to salary for new grads in SNFs in particular?
 
Newest pooled data from indeed, bls, trackers within the field 2017:

Mean salary: 87.5k according to bls

Starting salary nationally is 72k +/- 15k according to trackers

Travel assignments are highest with 100k+
Home health is second highest grossing 100k if students are too deep but can't travel.
Acute, subacute, irf, and neuro are usually third.
Ortho and sports drop down due to chain clinics
Pediatrics is sadly usually lowest although variability is everywhere.

Prn can gross higher than $50. I see $65-$70 on some postings.

Some residencies are now 50k+ with some being full time pay scale just more didactic work in evenings aka 65k

Everyone make decisions and good luck.

Yes. Before readers start to salivate at the option of making $50 an hour at a PRN job, please remember that you get zero benefits as a PRN worker, and the work is not steady, but, it does make good "extra cash" if you are willing to eat up some of your weekends/free time. Benefits are slim when you go through "health care recruiters" - high cost health insurance and when you work for a for profit institution vs a hospital etc, you will forfeit your right to public service loan forgiveness.

Starting salary is around $65-70k a year. In high end markets it can be in the 80s. In traditional OT/PT jobs we hit a salary ceiling quickly and top out in the low six figures, if you're working in a large hospital as a staff PT/OT you most likely won't reach that 6 figure mark. It's not all bleak, you can "make it work" as many have stated.
 
Yes. Before readers start to salivate at the option of making $50 an hour at a PRN job, please remember that you get zero benefits as a PRN worker, and the work is not steady, but, it does make good "extra cash" if you are willing to eat up some of your weekends/free time. Benefits are slim when you go through "health care recruiters" - high cost health insurance and when you work for a for profit institution vs a hospital etc, you will forfeit your right to public service loan forgiveness.

Starting salary is around $65-70k a year. In high end markets it can be in the 80s. In traditional OT/PT jobs we hit a salary ceiling quickly and top out in the low six figures, if you're working in a large hospital as a staff PT/OT you most likely won't reach that 6 figure mark. It's not all bleak, you can "make it work" as many have stated.

How did this provide any remote value to this thread? The data was pooled from therapists tracking this on a year by year basis as well as the most current indeed.com job postings. It is open to fluctuation each year.

Prn helps people put a dent in loans and get financially stable after a bit.

Your forum is a few clicks back and I prefer to not be private messaged like a few months back. Will be placing on ignore function
 
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How did this provide any remote value to this thread? The data was pooled from therapists tracking this on a year by year basis as well as the most current indeed.com job postings. It is open to fluctuation each year.

Prn helps people put a dent in loans and get financially stable after a bit.

Your forum is a few clicks back and I prefer to not be private messaged like a few months back. Will be placing on ignore function

I'm not explaining why a comment on salary and benefits is relevant to a thread about salary. I have no "forum", and never have, you're confusing me with someone else. I never cease to be amazed at the number of therapists in this forum who think they will exceed, by far, the government statistics of our salary stats. It's not easy, or everyone would do it, and I mention the drawback to PRN work to make people aware of the lack of any benefits with that work.

Please block away! I can't sue you for truth in advertising - you live up to your screen name.
 
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I have posted the survey to the forum at rehabedge.com.
On the DPT FB group, can we make it "stick to the top" so it won't disappear from view quickly? I'm not a FB power user, does anybody know how to do that? (I have not posted the survey there yet).

There are a couple of additional respondents, so check out the results.
Per special request jblil's salary survey has been placed permanently on the first page of SDN so all new PTs can easily find and take the quick survey. Hopefully all new grad PTs will consider utilizing this information while interviewing and negotiating for their first salaries. Thank you jblil for coming up with the survey and providing us with this extremely important information. We should all know our value as PTs and ensure we are paid accordingly; only then will we begin to see a decrease in the large gap between school costs and earning potential that we see today.
 
Doc-PT, thanks for your nice comment above. I hope the "stickied" salary survey will be useful to new grads. I've been busy lately, but plan to update it with numbers from the class of 2017.

On a somewhat different subject, long-time members will remember our discussions about South College (starting on p. 3 of this thread). I happened to see the post below over on the Pharmacy section of SDN:
AVOID FOR-PROFIT PHARMACY SCHOOLS - HORROR AT SOUTH COLLEGE
South College's Pharmacy school will consider applicants with a GPA of 2.5 (!!!):
http://pharmacy-schools.startclass.com/l/97/South-College
And the tuition is $45,300/yr... It's enough to make you reach for the Percocet.
 
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Doc-PT, thanks for your nice comment above. I hope the "stickied" salary survey will be useful to new grads. I've been busy lately, but plan to update it with numbers from the class of 2017.

On a somewhat different subject, long-time members will remember our discussions about South College (starting on p. 3 of this thread). I happened to see the post below over on the Pharmacy section of SDN:
AVOID FOR-PROFIT PHARMACY SCHOOLS - HORROR AT SOUTH COLLEGE
South College's Pharmacy school will consider applicants with a GPA of 2.5 (!!!):
http://pharmacy-schools.startclass.com/l/97/South-College
And the tuition is $45,300/yr... It's enough to make you reach for the Percocet.

That thread is old but still relevant.
 
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In order to help DPT new-grads evaluate or negotiate job offers, I put together a very short salary survey (only 6 questions) at this URL:
If you are a recent grad, please take the survey. It's completely anonymous. Also tell your classmates about it and encourage them to take the survey. The more data we have, the more useful the results will be.

Results are posted here, and will be updated as more responses roll in:
there's already something similar through updoc media with ben fung.
 
African American here...........

I agree 1000000% with occupationalguy. Lack of diversity is a major problem within the field and I'm currently in thought of choosing another field due to that reason. I'm currently finishing up my undergrad but while I'm doing that, I'm working as an PT Aide. I worked at 2 outpatient orthos and I currently work at a rehab hospital as an aide. All the therapist I work with are white. At the 2 outpatient orthos I worked at, it was more male dominated and all of them were suburban white guys who grew up in rich neighborhoods. At the hospital, about 90% of the staff are white women who also came from suburban rich neighborhoods. As occupationalguy stated, most PT students come from neighborhoods that lack racial diversity. It's frightening because PTs are expected to be able to interact with a wide variety of different ethnic groups and most of them do not have that experience as I've seen first hand as aide.

Hey, I just wanted to let you know that I am heartened truly to read this. I hope that this changes. I am so excited that in my current workplace we just hired an African American OT, the PTs are 100% white and 100% female so we have a smidge more diversity on our side I guess. If this is the only reason you are thinking of not pursuing PT: PLEASE DON'T. We need more people of color (and men, yes even white men) to represent a more diverse image of what it means to be a PT or OT. I do not in any way shape or form want to imply that white women who are the majority of clinicians aren't in this field to help their patients; I do wish we could speak with admissions directors of programs. When I brought this issue up in my program I was quickly informed by my program director that under no circumstances would race or gender be considered in admissions. They simply stack the applications in order of GPA and then select from there. That's how it is in many programs, and it's a massive problem.

I know I sound like a broken record, but as we move towards the OTD I can't see us increasing the number of qualified minority applicants. When I mentioned that we should have diversity issues in our curriculum (at a conference with OTs and PTs the present) people didn't quite seem to appreciate it. The administration in my program told me that we can relate to minority patients without the need to include diversity issues in curriculum since we saw black people at our fieldwork sites.

You will see more representation of men in orthopedic outpatient settings. I did one of my fieldwork settings in an ortho setting, in hand therapy and upper extremity. I worked with a lot of PTs. I had a feeling I was doing designer therapy for the "worried well" rich white suburbanites driving BMWs who wanted someone to talk to more than having serious physical dysfunction. Maybe that's the OT in me.... I digress.

As we move in the "doctorate" direction as well our field is set to become even whiter, and even richer. Some programs are better than others about focusing on diversity issues, but most are like some of the stuff you hear in this forum when the issue came up, it simply doesn't affect most of their lives because most are rich, white and grew up in rich white areas, and it feels natural and normal to be in a rich white classroom filled with girls who have fancy water bottles, go to yoga, talk about pintrest, and organic food, and spend $6 on a drink from starbucks. I remember one girl in my program only talked about her wedding for two full years, and how she was planning on working PRN for "fun". Boy that made me feel great about my profession.

Nothing wrong with being white or rich, I'm white and my dad is a doctor... but being a gender minority made me think critically in my cohort about how it must feel to be a racial minority. I started asking myself about how it must feel to be a double outsider: male and black.
 
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In all honesty, I don't have a diversity "target" when it comes to gender. Unlike race, gender comes with certain hormonal and brain development differences (PLEASE let's everyone be adults here. It's a scientific fact.) that will make some professions more likely to attract or not attract males/females, and that's fine. If a greater proportion of women are drawn to PT than men, you'll have more women. Nothing wrong with that. So long as everyone is being considered based on their merits and not their gender (or race), there's no problem here

I am not being facetious when I ask: what brain development and hormonal differences do you know of that account for more women desiring to be OTs and PTs than men. I am just curious if that is supported by any scientific evidence. I do recall a guy saying this to support Google hiring way more men than women. He was promptly fired, so...

Did you ever stop to ask if it isn't more an issue of a lot of socialization going on which encourages men to be soldiers and women to be teachers? I'm not saying there aren't biological influences, but do we have any evidence to support this stuff or is it just status quo, boys like Gi Joe girls like Barbie stuff I grew up with.
 
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