SOAP 2017 Thread

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azrael099 said:
I have never heard of getting a PA job with only a MD. What state are you in? Anyone else heard of this?
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California, I just applied to a job on craigslist. I pretty much sold myself over the phone. I was like, well do you want someone with 2 yrs of 4 yrs of background experience? so yeah, I think they want someone with 4 yrs.
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AQ40 said:
California, I just applied to a job on craigslist. I pretty much sold myself over the phone. I was like, well do you want someone with 2 yrs of 4 yrs of background experience? so yeah, I think they want someone with 4 yrs.
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So working as a physician assistant will help increase chances of matching next year?
 
azrael099 said:
I have never heard of getting a PA job with only a MD. What state are you in? Anyone else heard of this?
Click to expand...
Not heard of it, but I'm interested to work as physician assistant this year, in hope that it increases my chances of matching next year.
 
It really seems like the SOAP system favors the schools rather than applicants. Why not have the offers just go down the list, Like program offers a spot to someone if they don't take it then it gets sent out to a new person again and again until someone accepts. Should have to wait hours for the offer to come back on the market. Also all places should be require to fill their open spots. They shouldn't be allowed to not fill unless there are not applicants that fit the minimum requirements: On track to graduate, passed boards.
 
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Elan88 said:
So working as a physician assistant will help increase chances of matching next year?
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I'm just saying if you need a job and money then PA route is prob the best, were all in bad financial situation, some worse than others. If your in the field gaining experience then it always helps, you can sell yourself in the IV with it that you had hands on experience.

The best thing is step 3 and at least 1 clinical publication.

I'm just giving out options.

they're gonna ask "What did you do this last year? Why should we hire you now?" For next years match. For every place we go to.
 
AQ40 said:
I'm just saying if you need a job and money then PA route is prob the best, were all in bad financial situation, some worse than others. If your in the field gaining experience then it always helps, you can sell yourself in the IV with it that you had hands on experience.

The best thing is step 3 and at least 1 clinical publication.

I'm just giving out options.

they're gonna ask "What did you do this last year? Why should we hire you now?" For next years match. For every place we go to.
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I'm glad I saved my publications for situations just like this. Have three that're finished that just need to get submitted into the journals. Will probably do this first thing on Monday. Just need to go tackle Step 3.
 
Ugh I really hate my school more so than ever. I have been in contact them since Monday about helping me find a position and they say this crap:
"-schools don't call programs for students. Once you apply, the programs that do want to speak to someone from the medical school on behalf of the student, then have the option of contacting us to get any additional supporting information they may need about the applicant."

Am I off base or don't most medical schools call programs on student's behalf to try and find them residency spots? I mean don't they have a vested interest in me finding a spot? :boom:
 
WOW! I knew I was lucky to attend my school, but didn't realize how much. At my school, we were pushed to have an advisor go over the app, cv, personal statement, etc preferably before 4th year or at the beginning. My advisor was my school's PD. He was helpful in crafting my personal statement, choosing places to apply, etc. He told me my weaknesses. We were emailed constantly... "by this point you should have at least 7 IV, if you don't, come talk to us, apply to more places, AND email PDs about your intetest." I was fortunate to match, but the people who didn't had to come in at 11:30 On Monday to talk to an advisor and make a plan. I think this might be why our match rate last year was 97%. I can't imagine how difficult it is to have to do this on your own.
 
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Anyone have an updated list of AOA tri's that are acgme accredited? AOA hasnt updated their list recently.
 
icd22 said:
WOW! I knew I was lucky to attend my school, but didn't realize how much. At my school, we were pushed to have an advisor go over the app, cv, personal statement, etc preferably before 4th year or at the beginning. My advisor was my school's PD. He was helpful in crafting my personal statement, choosing places to apply, etc. He told me my weaknesses. We were emailed constantly... "by this point you should have at least 7 IV, if you don't, come talk to us, apply to more places, AND email PDs about your intetest." I was fortunate to match, but the people who didn't had to come in at 11:30 On Monday to talk to an advisor and make a plan. I think this might be why our match rate last year was 97%. I can't imagine how difficult it is to have to do this on your own.
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Nice post @icd22 -- And you're wise to recognize the value of this help. Helping their students succeed is the point, after all.
 
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AQ40 said:
I'm just saying if you need a job and money then PA route is prob the best, were all in bad financial situation, some worse than others. If your in the field gaining experience then it always helps, you can sell yourself in the IV with it that you had hands on experience.

The best thing is step 3 and at least 1 clinical publication.

I'm just giving out options.

they're gonna ask "What did you do this last year? Why should we hire you now?" For next years match. For every place we go to.
Click to expand...
AQ40 said:
I'm just saying if you need a job and money then PA route is prob the best, were all in bad financial situation, some worse than others. If your in the field gaining experience then it always helps, you can sell yourself in the IV with it that you had hands on experience.

The best thing is step 3 and at least 1 clinical publication.

I'm just giving out options.

they're gonna ask "What did you do this last year? Why should we hire you now?" For next years match. For every place we go to.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the suggestions! I gother my step 3 result before the ROL deadline this Feb and sent it off to the programs hoping they'll consider ranking me higher. I don't know if they considered it. Does anyone know about pathology and how competitive is that ? Thanks
 
Edit: pocket posted. Good luck everyone!

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For those who have done the scramble successfully, how long does it take typically until you find a spot? 1 day? 1 week?

I just want to know how long I should keep trying before giving up
 
I highly doubt that one can practice as a physician assistant (PA) without a PA license, or that you can acquire one just by being an MD. The California PA License application needs to be filled out and signed by a PA School to certify you completed their training. I can't imagine any hospital would take on the legal risk of filling a PA position for someone without a PA license, regardless of the applicant's medical experience.
 
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Got offered a spot in IM and accepted it. Its not EM, but I will be happy in the end. Good luck to everybody
 
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What a week from Hell! To those who got lucky congrats, to those scrambling keep your head up!
 
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I wouldn't make career decisions solely to pursue Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF). My school tells us explicitly that we do not know if congress will continue to keep that option open, especially with the current administration. They haven't forgiven anyone's debt yet; that's set to start on October '17 after the first batch of people who served their 10 years make it through. Only then will the government feel the financial implications of forgiving all these physicians.

PSLF has problems as in some instances depending on the entity that actually pays the resident (e.g. not the hospital itself), working in a residency qualifies as "public service." Thus, neurosurgeons may have their debt forgiven after 7-8 years of residency and 2 years of actual public service. PSLF wasn't met to provide a free ride to neurosurgeons etc., so I think it's likely that there will be changes to rules.

There's nothing keeping congress to its promise so I wouldn't be surprised if they start phasing PSLF out, start making limits to forgiveness, or eliminate it entirely. My school says to think of PSLF as a nice gift if you get it, but again don't base your entire career around it.
 
Looks like the SOAP spots for Internal Med Prelim went from 10 to 8 in the last round which tells me some programs aren't even trying to fill. So frustrating.
 
Aqua_Vitae said:
I don't know. Re-apply if you can improve.

Scramble technically goes till june. Some people are idiots and fail a drug test or whatever. Positions can open. Your app is on file if you applied soap and if not eras is open till may?

With that being said, it is easily 10X more difficult to land a position during scramble (next 3 months) than this week.
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Thanks for your inputs
 
DC1987 said:
Looks like the SOAP spots for Internal Med Prelim went from 10 to 8 in the last round which tells me some programs aren't even trying to fill. So frustrating.
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I suppose they could be holding those spots for applicants who matched advanced but not prelim at that institution. Maybe. That makes sense to me, anyway. So the next best correct step for someone not completely matched is to call the PD where they are matched (once they find out tomorrow) and see if a position can be created for them.
 
Erinma2017 said:
This entire process has been a complete waste of time and energy. They need a better system set in place. I'm taking myself to breakfast arghh :mad::mad:
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Totally serious question: How would you change the system to make it better? Remember that there are more applicants than spots, so therefore some/many applicants are not getting a spot no matter what system is used.

DC1987 said:
It really seems like the SOAP system favors the schools rather than applicants. Why not have the offers just go down the list, Like program offers a spot to someone if they don't take it then it gets sent out to a new person again and again until someone accepts. Should have to wait hours for the offer to come back on the market. Also all places should be require to fill their open spots. They shouldn't be allowed to not fill unless there are not applicants that fit the minimum requirements: On track to graduate, passed boards.
Click to expand...

It's hard to say whether it favors applicants or programs. Obviously the programs are in a better position because there are multiple applicants for each spot - that's just the way it is. But the system otherwise seems to balance the two (at least to me).

Why not have offers go down the list? Because that won't really work. Let's say you get an offer from a program in IM. But you really wanted a spot in GS. So you might hope that someone else will turn down an offer and then a new offer will appear, so you sit on your IM offer waiting. That ties up that offer, that perhaps someone else might want, etc. The multiple round system yields the same result in the end, with less uncertainty/craziness -- if someone turning down an offer in your system would result in you getting that offer, that will just happen in the next round rather than immediately.

Forcing programs to fill spots isn't fair to programs. Sometimes the right answer is not to fill the spot. For example, let's say I had an intern this year who took an LOA for 6 months, so now they will be an intern next year for 6 months. I might petition my GME office to still fill my full complement and be 1/2 of an intern "over". But if I ended up with an unfilled spot at the end of the match, I might decide to leave the spot empty and be 1/2 of an intern under instead. That's my call, I shouldn't be forced to fill a position if I don't want to.

Looking for any/all ideas for improvement. If anyone disagrees with me on the above points, happy to discuss that too.
 
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azrael099 said:
I have never heard of getting a PA job with only a MD. What state are you in? Anyone else heard of this?
Click to expand...
PAs are board certified. Need to be trained for 2 years. On top of that, the application process is a hassle because of pre-requisites.
 
ThoseWhoCantDO said:
I highly doubt that one can practice as a physician assistant (PA) without a PA license, or that you can acquire one just by being an MD. The California PA License application needs to be filled out and signed by a PA School to certify you completed their training. I can't imagine any hospital would take on the legal risk of filling a PA position for someone without a PA license, regardless of the applicant's medical experience.
Click to expand...

I have to agree. Maybe HR can reclassify a job posting so that it could be filled by an MD grad rather than a PA--but the person who fills that position is going to need some kind of license in order to see patients. It can't be a training license since you're not in a residency program. Perhaps the institution can swing some kind of temporary license, but why would they go to all that trouble if they have PA applicants who could do the job without all the licensing headaches. Plus, from an employer's perspective, the MD grad who is going to reapply for residency next year is a waste of time to train (since they will be leaving in a year or less), and will require a lot of time off in order to complete enough interviews to secure a match.

More power to anyone who can navigate the job market and make it work.
 
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mcl said:
I have to agree. Maybe HR can reclassify a job posting so that it could be filled by an MD grad rather than a PA--but the person who fills that position is going to need some kind of license in order to see patients. It can't be a training license since you're not in a residency program. Perhaps the institution can swing some kind of temporary license, but why would they go to all that trouble if they have PA applicants who could do the job without all the licensing headaches. Plus, from an employer's perspective, the MD grad who is going to reapply for residency next year is a waste of time to train (since they will be leaving in a year or less), and will require a lot of time off in order to complete enough interviews to secure a match.

More power to anyone who can navigate the job market and make it work.
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Not PA, people are talking about "Assistant Physician", which is only available in MO, basically a program that allows Physicians to act as NP's and practice perpetually under supervision.
 
so what happens now? do i still use ERAS to apply or do i just contact the programs?
 
Question here: so for the programs with unfilled spots now - is it recommend to just email resume/ CSV / apply through ERAS/ or just call?
 
SLC said:
Not PA, people are talking about "Assistant Physician", which is only available in MO, basically a program that allows Physicians to act as NP's and practice perpetually under supervision.
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People were talking about PAs instead of the assistant physicians:

AQ40 said:
You can apply for a Physician Assistant position. People told me I couldn't because I didn't have a PA license, but I was like dude... I have an MD... so when I contacted the job posting I told they wanted to interview me. They have good compensation, I would recommend it. Keeps you in the medical field, gives you experience, could get a LOC from the docs you work with, plus $$$$.
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AQ40 said:
California, I just applied to a job on craigslist. I pretty much sold myself over the phone. I was like, well do you want someone with 2 yrs of 4 yrs of background experience? so yeah, I think they want someone with 4 yrs.
Click to expand...

Elan88 said:
So working as a physician assistant will help increase chances of matching next year?
Click to expand...
 
azrael099 said:
Question here: so for the programs with unfilled spots now - is it recommend to just email resume/ CSV / apply through ERAS/ or just call?
Click to expand...

aProgDirector said:
Post SOAP, the NRMP will publish an open slots list. The list is fixed, they will no longer update it. The list will contain contact information for each program.

Usually, applicants just contact programs directly -- either by phone, email, or fax. As you can imagine, it's a bit of a nightmare for programs, as they could get 100's of calls. So you'll find that many phones get disconnected, or a message is left that the spots are filled / will not be filled / etc. So, expect a very low pick up rate.

If a program is interested, they will want your info. You can either send it manually (i.e email/fax), or you can apply via ERAS. ERAS closes on May 31, so all of your information and documents remain there and can be sent to any program until then. Standard ERAS rates apply. I wouldn't just send applications via ERAS to programs with spots listed -- the chances that they go back into ERAS to look, without knowing your app is there, is low. Although perhaps some programs will instruct you to do just that (which is fine, if that's their process).

If you're sending your app manually, you may not have your LOR's. Your choices are to contact your LOR writers and have them send copies, or use ERAS to send an application to the program.
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Quoting to answer above questions.
 
aProgDirector said:
Totally serious question: How would you change the system to make it better? Remember that there are more applicants than spots, so therefore some/many applicants are not getting a spot no matter what system is used.



It's hard to say whether it favors applicants or programs. Obviously the programs are in a better position because there are multiple applicants for each spot - that's just the way it is. But the system otherwise seems to balance the two (at least to me).

Why not have offers go down the list? Because that won't really work. Let's say you get an offer from a program in IM. But you really wanted a spot in GS. So you might hope that someone else will turn down an offer and then a new offer will appear, so you sit on your IM offer waiting. That ties up that offer, that perhaps someone else might want, etc. The multiple round system yields the same result in the end, with less uncertainty/craziness -- if someone turning down an offer in your system would result in you getting that offer, that will just happen in the next round rather than immediately.

Forcing programs to fill spots isn't fair to programs. Sometimes the right answer is not to fill the spot. For example, let's say I had an intern this year who took an LOA for 6 months, so now they will be an intern next year for 6 months. I might petition my GME office to still fill my full complement and be 1/2 of an intern "over". But if I ended up with an unfilled spot at the end of the match, I might decide to leave the spot empty and be 1/2 of an intern under instead. That's my call, I shouldn't be forced to fill a position if I don't want to.

Looking for any/all ideas for improvement. If anyone disagrees with me on the above points, happy to discuss that too.
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What should I do in a situation where I don't have a residency spot and no on from my school can call on my behalf ?
 
explorertx said:
There are DO spots available, go to http://cf.osteopathic.org/aoapostmatch/index.cfm good luck.


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Just flipping through that, they have open positions in derm and EM on the first page, and the list goes on and on and on. They even have some psych in there. When they say "DO is just like MD, plus a little bit more" I guess this is what they meant.

Does anybody know when The Merger is complete? Maybe some of this year's unmatched MDs can have a crack at those positions next year?
 
sazerac said:
Just flipping through that, they have open positions in derm and EM on the first page, and the list goes on and on and on. They even have some psych in there. When they say "DO is just like MD, plus a little bit more" I guess this is what they meant.

Does anybody know when The Merger is complete? Maybe some of this year's unmatched MDs can have a crack at those positions next year?
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, not until 2020.


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sazerac said:
Just flipping through that, they have open positions in derm and EM on the first page, and the list goes on and on and on. They even have some psych in there. When they say "DO is just like MD, plus a little bit more" I guess this is what they meant.

Does anybody know when The Merger is complete? Maybe some of this year's unmatched MDs can have a crack at those positions next year?
Click to expand...

Why dont people want those spots? It seems absolutely crazy the number of DO students on here and reddit I see whining about not getting a spot. Take a freaking Derm position in Texas, graduate, then go make a million dollars a year practicing Derm in Texas. What am I missing here?
 
Derv said:
Why dont people want those spots? It seems absolutely crazy the number of DO students on here and reddit I see whining about not getting a spot. Take a freaking Derm position in Texas, graduate, then go make a million dollars a year practicing Derm in Texas. What am I missing here?
Click to expand...
You have to do a TRI first then apply during your TRI year, DO derm is weird. a lot of these positions are being held until after the soap if they aren't already gone.
 
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sazerac said:
Just flipping through that, they have open positions in derm and EM on the first page, and the list goes on and on and on. They even have some psych in there. When they say "DO is just like MD, plus a little bit more" I guess this is what they meant.

Does anybody know when The Merger is complete? Maybe some of this year's unmatched MDs can have a crack at those positions next year?
Click to expand...
The EM spot is a second year position.
 
Derv said:
Why dont people want those spots? It seems absolutely crazy the number of DO students on here and reddit I see whining about not getting a spot. Take a freaking Derm position in Texas, graduate, then go make a million dollars a year practicing Derm in Texas. What am I missing here?
Click to expand...

The derm spot is a PGY-2 position. DO students have been (or should be) scrambling since the SOAP ended this morning to find a spot. We are VERY fortunate to have a second scramble available.
 
Once we e-mail the program, how long is the wait usually?
 
So first of all I learned for Neuro I cannot do AOA internship unless they have ACGME accreditation. Which severely limited my options. Neuro is so restrictive in what you can do. Very frustrating!

But my wife and I hounded the phones and I eventually secured a spot in an AOA internship with ACGME accreditation!

Now I am truly matched and will not have to give up my advanced ACGME residency!

This process is truly terrible and I'm so glad it's done.
 
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So I've already experienced several programs that have put their phones to automatic voicemail, with the mailboxes full. Lol

I understand their position, but what the hell are we supposed to do as we wait?
 
docqb said:
Got offered a spot in IM and accepted it. Its not EM, but I will be happy in the end. Good luck to everybody
Click to expand...

Congrats man! Wish you the best of luck in the IM residency :)
 
DC1987 said:
So first of all I learned for Neuro I cannot do AOA internship unless they have ACGME accreditation. Which severely limited my options. Neuro is so restrictive in what you can do. Very frustrating!

But my wife and I hounded the phones and I eventually secured a spot in an AOA internship with ACGME accreditation!

Now I am truly matched and will not have to give up my advanced ACGME residency!

This process is truly terrible and I'm so glad it's done.
Click to expand...

Wow, great to hear! Yes it is terrible; I SOAP'ed last year and didn't get anything. I was fortunate to match in the regular match this year :).
 
People must still be getting offers b/c there are much less programs available than there were at 12:00pm
 
CaliAtenza said:
Wow, great to hear! Yes it is terrible; I SOAP'ed last year and didn't get anything. I was fortunate to match in the regular match this year :).
Click to expand...

May I ask you what did you do different this year to get matched. Any pointers will help
 
CaliAtenza said:
Wow, great to hear! Yes it is terrible; I SOAP'ed last year and didn't get anything. I was fortunate to match in the regular match this year :).
Click to expand...
What did you do during the year to improve your chances of matching
 
you need license to work as a physician assistant, i don't know what people are talking about here.
 
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