So.... how much will I make? :)

[chicoborja]

I have mostly agreed with the things stated by both marcrusc and DrumHead with a few exceptions. In terms of licensure laws in Kansas and the ASHA scope of practice guidelines for audiologists, we can diagnose hearing loss. This often includes site-of-lesion (e.g., conductive, sensorineural, mixed, retrocochlear). We cannot gives medical diagnoses (e.g., otitis media, otosclerosis, acoustic neuroma, etc.). Physicians can also diagnose hearing loss (they can do pretty much anything allied health care professionals can) but this doesnt seem to be an issue of contention. Although we often use prescriptive formulas such as DSL and NAL-NL1, it should be known that there are other good prescription formulas out there such as Camfit and Cameq. Further, as good audiologist we should know that meeting target is not always appropriate. Many clients prefer about 3 dB less high-frequency gain in the high frequencies than is prescribed by NAL-NL1. This has been shown by Dillon and colleagues at NAL. In some cases, prescription targets are reduced in their utility, such as low-frequency, reverse slope loss. Try fitting to target on this type of sensorineural loss and see what response you get!

I would agree that there are few distinctions between us and hearing aid dealers which is a sad truth for our field. I believe they are not allowed to perform cerumen management or do vestibular but this may vary depending on state law. Hearing aid dealers would also not be employed in public schools, hospitals (including VA), the military, or universities. So it should be known that audiologists have a more diverse range of career opportunities.

Since i mainly dispense hearing aids, I try to distinguish myself with my knowledge base and my client-centered focus. I NEVER upsell a set of hearing aids! There are many features on hearing aids that have not been shown to yield significant clinical benefit so I tell my clients that and help preserve their pocketbook while providing them the means for them to improve their quality of life.

Contrary to what a previous post mentioned, I do not believe comparing an AuD to a PhD is apples to oranges. In my case I was in an AuD program and switched to a clinical PhD track. This typically will take 1 to 2 years beyond the typical 4 yr curriculum to obtain both your CCCs and the PhD. Programs such as East Carolina University and Montclair State University still offer clinical PhD/ScD programs. Even though my research focus is not really clinically applicable, I have found that what I have learned in the program has made me a better clinician than the majority of my classmates. Why am I being arrogant and how have I comes to this conclusion? Simple, I know why I do what I do and I know their advantages and disadvantages. I have a hunger for learning and trying new techniques and products. I am constantly being critical about the products I dispense and the procedures I use. You could easily argue that an AuD could do all the things I mentioned. Some could but many could not. Learning how to read the research literature is so important for integrating evidence based practice into your clinical practice. And I hate to tell you this but one course in stats and one in research methods doesnt cut it. You may or may not make more money as a PhD depending on what you do but I would argue that you will have the tools to be a better clinician and you will be respected by your colleagues.

---

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[0U1988]

I have mostly agreed with the things stated by both marcrusc and DrumHead with a few exceptions. In terms of licensure laws in Kansas and the ASHA scope of practice guidelines for audiologists, we can diagnose hearing loss. This often includes site-of-lesion (e.g., conductive, sensorineural, mixed, retrocochlear). We cannot gives medical diagnoses (e.g., otitis media, otosclerosis, acoustic neuroma, etc.). Physicians can also diagnose hearing loss (they can do pretty much anything allied health care professionals can) but this doesnt seem to be an issue of contention. Although we often use prescriptive formulas such as DSL and NAL-NL1, it should be known that there are other good prescription formulas out there such as Camfit and Cameq. Further, as good audiologist we should know that meeting target is not always appropriate. Many clients prefer about 3 dB less high-frequency gain in the high frequencies than is prescribed by NAL-NL1. This has been shown by Dillon and colleagues at NAL. In some cases, prescription targets are reduced in their utility, such as low-frequency, reverse slope loss. Try fitting to target on this type of sensorineural loss and see what response you get!

I would agree that there are few distinctions between us and hearing aid dealers which is a sad truth for our field. I believe they are not allowed to perform cerumen management or do vestibular but this may vary depending on state law. Hearing aid dealers would also not be employed in public schools, hospitals (including VA), the military, or universities. So it should be known that audiologists have a more diverse range of career opportunities.

Since i mainly dispense hearing aids, I try to distinguish myself with my knowledge base and my client-centered focus. I NEVER upsell a set of hearing aids! There are many features on hearing aids that have not been shown to yield significant clinical benefit so I tell my clients that and help preserve their pocketbook while providing them the means for them to improve their quality of life.

Contrary to what a previous post mentioned, I do not believe comparing an AuD to a PhD is apples to oranges. In my case I was in an AuD program and switched to a clinical PhD track. This typically will take 1 to 2 years beyond the typical 4 yr curriculum to obtain both your CCCs and the PhD. Programs such as East Carolina University and Montclair State University still offer clinical PhD/ScD programs. Even though my research focus is not really clinically applicable, I have found that what I have learned in the program has made me a better clinician than the majority of my classmates. Why am I being arrogant and how have I comes to this conclusion? Simple, I know why I do what I do and I know their advantages and disadvantages. I have a hunger for learning and trying new techniques and products. I am constantly being critical about the products I dispense and the procedures I use. You could easily argue that an AuD could do all the things I mentioned. Some could but many could not. Learning how to read the research literature is so important for integrating evidence based practice into your clinical practice. And I hate to tell you this but one course in stats and one in research methods doesnt cut it. You may or may not make more money as a PhD depending on what you do but I would argue that you will have the tools to be a better clinician and you will be respected by your colleagues.

so do you have your own private practice? I had a question as to the scope of practice of HIS i don't know if you know the answer; but can HIS sale maskers(is a device that looks like a hearing aid and produces a static hiss-like sound) to help with problem of Tinnitus?

 

[chicoborja]

No, I don't own my own private practice. I'm finishing up what would be the equivalent to a 4th year which has turned out to be much more like a CFY.

Yes, I do believe that hearing instrument specialists can dispense tinnitus maskers.

 

[cidanu]

I'm finishing up what would be the equivalent to a 4th year which has turned out to be much more like a CFY.

I'm curious what the differences are. I know this is something I'll probably find out in 6 months but curious anyway!

 

[juicy123]

I have seen some stats online that says hearing aid dispensers make just as much (or more) than audiologists...is this true?
Is anyone else worried about hearing aid dispensers taking over our job? What can an audiologist do, that either a MD or hearing aid dispenser can't do? I love audiology, but sometimes I feel like the entire career can really hit a fork in the road.

 

[chicoborja]

I'm curious what the differences are. I know this is something I'll probably find out in 6 months but curious anyway!

A 4th year is supposed to be a the transition period where you become comfortable as an independent clinican while still having the safety net of your preceptor available. Over the course of the 4th year, the student would typically gain more and more independence, gradually, based upon that individual student's confidence and competence.

On the other hand a CFY is more like your first job where you would have a mentor available for help but would be expected to much more independent from the start as you are being paid (probably 2/3 of normal salary). CFYs are still around in SLP bit not in audiology since the transition from MA to AuD

The reason I indicated mine was more like a CFY has to due with the atypical circumstance I am in.

 

[chicoborja]

I have seen some stats online that says hearing aid dispensers make just as much (or more) than audiologists...is this true?
Is anyone else worried about hearing aid dispensers taking over our job? What can an audiologist do, that either a MD or hearing aid dispenser can't do? I love audiology, but sometimes I feel like the entire career can really hit a fork in the road.

Hearing aid dispensers can make more than audiologists but this really depends on whether or not they own their own practice. I am not familiar with the salary figures for hearing aid dealers but I would imagine that if we are comparing non-owner private practice HIS vs Aud then HIS salary would be less. I could be wrong though. As for what was asked about HIS vs Aud in terms of their job scope, see my previous post on this thread.

As far as MD vs Aud, there is nothing that an audiologist can uniquely do that a physician cant in a medical, clinical, or private practice setting. Similarly, I don't believe there is anything that a physical therapist can do that a physician cant. That does not mean you will see often ENTs dispensing aids or performing vestibular tests. They have neither the training nor the interest to do these things themselves. Of course if they wanted to they could but it is much more profitable to do surgeries. They will often hire Auds or HIS to do these activities.

As a glimmer of hope, think about this. As an audiologist you will be the expert in terms of "hearing" If you are at a half-way decent audiologist, the average hearing aid dealer or primary care physician should NOT know more than you concerning "hearing". How bout a fellowship trained neuro-otologist??? It will be hard to surpass this guy considering they have 4 yrs med school, 4 years ENT residency, and a couple more years fellowship. They will ALWAYS know more than you concerning medical conditions of the ear (e.g., otosclerosis, meniere's, otitis, acoustic neuromas). However, if you continually learn, you may know more about "hearing" such as psychoacoustics and speech perception concerning older adults, children, and the above mentioned medical populations. Also hearing aid technology and audiologic testing should be areas of expertise. Even tinnitus if you are so inclined. However, I feel that the average audiologist is not inclined and I would rarely consider the average audiologist an expert on hearing. That is my pessimistic take on things.

 

[0U1988]

I have seen some stats online that says hearing aid dispensers make just as much (or more) than audiologists...is this true?
Is anyone else worried about hearing aid dispensers taking over our job? What can an audiologist do, that either a MD or hearing aid dispenser can't do? I love audiology, but sometimes I feel like the entire career can really hit a fork in the road.

http://www.audiologyonline.com/theHearingJournal/pdfs/HJ2009_03_p7-8.pdf
Specialists Gain Recognition
The Standard Occupational Classification (SOC) for 2010, published by the federal Office of Management and Budget, will give HIS a new code, 29-2092, will be set aside for the 2010 SOC. HIS now will be listed under Healthcare Practitioners and Technical Occupations category, subcategory Health Technologists and Technicians. SOC will raise the stature of HIS among clients and may also make third-party payers more likely to cover services provided by specialists! (direct quote from the article) This is Horrible news for Audiology and Audiologist, this further blurs the line between HIS and Audiologist! (Article:March2009)

 

[chicoborja]

I really would not let this changes in the SOC worry you. If you want to dispense hearing aids and feel that there is not enough distinction between HIS and AuD, then simply become an HIS. If you want the education and a wider variety of opportunities go the AuD route. If you want the education but can't stand the fact that HIS perform a similar job with minimal education then simply pick a different career (i.e., optometry, speech pathology, psychology).

 

[0U1988]

I really would not let this changes in the SOC worry you. If you want to dispense hearing aids and feel that there is not enough distinction between HIS and AuD, then simply become an HIS. If you want the education and a wider variety of opportunities go the AuD route. If you want the education but can't stand the fact that HIS perform a similar job with minimal education then simply pick a different career (i.e., optometry, speech pathology, psychology).

IT doesn't bother me enough to not want to become an audiologist, I'm just showing the facts of the profession. I personally feel that Audiologist should worry a little about HIS and the SOC. I think that either our education needs to be furthered to make a clearer distinction between the two of us, or it should be made to were a Doctor has to write a prescription for a hearing aids, with a full hearing exam provided by either Audiologist or ENT. Meaning that even adults couldn't sign a wavier and get a hearing aid without a proper exam from a qualified professional(AuD/ENT). This could also help with some of the stigma and sustain people feel towards people who sale hearing aids in general. I don't think i have to pick another career path speech pathology, optometry, psychology, etc, instead i think Audiology can follow the path and model of some of these professions and become better. Hopefully in the future some of these shortcomings will be corrected and think it begins with better education and stronger curriculum. I think as audiologist regardless if you decide to sale hearing aids or not , should be insulted that majority can't tell us apart from HIS.

 

[marcrusc]

As long as you relegate the discussion to the fitting of hearing aids, you will never be able to separate AUD from HIS. We may have more education, but there has never been a single bit of research that states that we do a better job. 82% of audiologists don't even do real ear testing, which is necessary for evidence based practice. Also, don't worry about the HISs eating up the market. In the last MarkeTrak they were dispensing about 25% of aids, while audiologists are around 63%. Their percentage keeps falling. Ours keeps rising. Coming from very much a realist, it'll be ok. Our main issue is that every job we do can be done by a technician. Our advantage comes from the fact that we can do a little sales, do a little vestib, have a few hearing conservation contracts, and the like, all at the same time. This diversification helps shield us from poor economic times. The HISs are dying right now. A well diversified Aud can still be doing quite well. There are plenty of things to complain about concerning audiology. Furthermore, I can pretty well guarantee that no one in this field really expected it to be the way it is. However, it is still really freakin' fun. We make decent money guaranteed and if you want to go the extra mile, you can make some real bank. Nobody entering a program should be worried. Take your lumps. Do your complaining. Do your worrying. At the end of the tunnel, though, you'll be glad you picked audiology.

 

[marcrusc]

Sorry for all the mixed metaphors guys, its been a heck of a week.

 

[juicy123]

does anyone forsee a near future where only doctors are entitled to prescribe hearing aids? or is this something that is highly unlikely to happen

 

[meymen]

What a beautiful environment, the problems of the future doctors are talking now. We need an environment like this for lawyers.

Come easy to all.​

 

[marcrusc]

I've done a lot of talking with profs about that. It'll never happen.

 

[kurian]

hi guys....I am planning to take the clinical certification along with the PHD.
But i wanted to do a clinical sertifcation along with it so that i will have a back up if i dont get a job. i would request you if you can help me to choose a university to pursue my studies.my priorities are.

1.short time( because i have already spent time 2 .5 years for my masters),
2.more funidng(since i am an international student, its very expensive for me to survive in usa for 5 years with out funding and taking loans)
3. ranking of the program and location( university should be descent enough so that i can get a job later. If i spent 4 years of time, i should be woth of it)



I have applied to couple of universities. I just wanted your advice on this ...

1. University of Arizona, Tucson

Program applied - Doctor of Audiology (Au.D.)

Admssion Accepted – got 12,637 dollars scholarship.
This will cover their 3/4rth of the fess . but I have to take care of remaining money and living expense.The program is Highly reputable .The program is really heactic with 17 crdit hour in a semester and comprehensive exam every year.

Cons.- aud + Phd will take 6 to 7 years to complete. They don’t have a option of phd and taking a clinical certification along with it.

2. Wichita State University
Program applying for - Phd in communication sciences and disorders

got admission with full funding, they told me i can finsh my phd in 3 years and the clinical certification part in 1.5 years.


3. Texas Tech University Health Science Center

Program Applied – a dual program
AUD / Phd in Communication Sciences and Disorders

will take 4+2 = 6years to complete
Funding provided and a half time TA during the first semester and based on my performance they will give full time TA

Cons- they don’t have good research going.

4.University of Tennessee- Knoxville

Program applied - Doctor of Audiology (Au.D.)

Admission Accepted – no funding for this year
They also have a phd program along with a clinical certification

6.University of Illinois – Urbana –Champaign

Program applied - Doctor of Audiology (Au.D.)

Admission accepted- no details about funding


7. East Tennessee State University

Program applied - Doctor of Audiology (Au.D.)

Admission Accepted – they might give graduate assistant ship
Cons- they don’t have any option of doing PHD, ony aud program


Admission accepted for AUD prorgam but no funding

Indiana University – Bloomington

University of South Florida, Tampa

 

[chicoborja]

As long as you relegate the discussion to the fitting of hearing aids, you will never be able to separate AUD from HIS. We may have more education, but there has never been a single bit of research that states that we do a better job. 82% of audiologists don't even do real ear testing, which is necessary for evidence based practice. Also, don't worry about the HISs eating up the market. In the last MarkeTrak they were dispensing about 25% of aids, while audiologists are around 63%. Their percentage keeps falling. Ours keeps rising. Coming from very much a realist, it'll be ok. Our main issue is that every job we do can be done by a technician. Our advantage comes from the fact that we can do a little sales, do a little vestib, have a few hearing conservation contracts, and the like, all at the same time. This diversification helps shield us from poor economic times. The HISs are dying right now. A well diversified Aud can still be doing quite well. There are plenty of things to complain about concerning audiology. Furthermore, I can pretty well guarantee that no one in this field really expected it to be the way it is. However, it is still really freakin' fun. We make decent money guaranteed and if you want to go the extra mile, you can make some real bank. Nobody entering a program should be worried. Take your lumps. Do your complaining. Do your worrying. At the end of the tunnel, though, you'll be glad you picked audiology.

I agree with your take on this

 

[chicoborja]

does anyone forsee a near future where only doctors are entitled to prescribe hearing aids? or is this something that is highly unlikely to happen

I second that this will never happen. You can't easily take away from someone else's scope of practice. Not to mention, the HIS have a reasonable strong lobby. Oftentimes they collaborate with AAO-HNS (the ENTs) against us as a common enemy.

ENTs don't want us to step on their toes and the HIS don't want us to be able to do anything they cant do

 

[juicy123]

all of this adversity is actually making me reconsider this career, even though it was my dream for the last two years and I have already been accepted into grad school. This is so unfortunate, I wish I would have known, I surely never would have majored in Communication Disorders.

How horribly disappointing

 

[cidanu]

all of this adversity is actually making me reconsider this career, even though it was my dream for the last two years and I have already been accepted into grad school. This is so unfortunate, I wish I would have known, I surely never would have majored in Communication Disorders.

How horribly disappointing

i wouldn't let it get you that down. all careers have their pros and cons and adversity.

 

[0U1988]

all of this adversity is actually making me reconsider this career, even though it was my dream for the last two years and I have already been accepted into grad school. This is so unfortunate, I wish I would have known, I surely never would have majored in Communication Disorders.

How horribly disappointing

I wouldn't let any of theses post bother you, were just discussing the in and outs of the field. All the Doctor professions have these issues to deal with, just like Audiology does. Check the other threads of the other fields, you'll see what I mean. Besides U.S. News & World Report has had Audiology as the # 1 career for the future for the past 3 or 4 years now! Audiology is young clinical doctoring profession and alot of these problems being mentioned will work themselves out over time.

 

[EarDoc6]

woohoo, you're right 0U1988!... these messages were really starting to stress me out

 

[0U1988]

this could be really helpful for Audiology moving forward as a profession and with pay
http://www.audiologyonline.com/theHearingJournal/pdfs/HJ2009_05_p19-22.pdf

 

[AuD10]

I agree with most of the last few posts whole heartedly. However, to clarify, I do not argue that I care for respect for respects sake. Rather, by being seen as "degree creep", doors are shut to us that wouldn't be shut otherwise. Everyone can agree that that situation is not preferable. I would also agree with the statement that counseling is a wonderful thing that sets us apart from techs. However, we do not legally diagnose anything ever, not even hearing loss (at least in Tennessee). A flat profound hearing loss with zero air-bone gaps, as "diagnosed" by an audiologist will officially be purely conductive at the say so of any MD (or NP for that matter). The "prescribing" is done by a computer. You will always either use a formula from the National Acoustic Laboratories in australia or you will use the Desired Sensation Level formula. Prescribing amounts to hitting a button. From that point on you are just clicking a mouse to match targets. Apart from counseling, there is no distinction between us and hearing instrument specialists, as far as hearing aids go. They have high school degrees.

I really enjoy Audiology. I simply feel that there are lots of things that one will learn about the profession only after having made the jump. This information shouldn't be hidden for fear of being labled "negative nancy". I plan on making a lot of money and having fun while I'm doing it. You all can do the exact same. I suggest only that you have a healthy respect for both sides of what you are getting into.

In regards to the AuD scope of practice, we are qualified to diagnose hearing loss based on an audiogram (i.e. when you fill out your tickets, you put down an ICD-9 to support your procedures). However, if it is a medical condition, we cannot officially declare until an MD makes their diagnosis.

As audiologists, we do much more than ‘push computer buttons’. You have to understand and interpret what the computer does after you push the button. If you are simply allowing the computer to automatically adjust all the time, then you certainly are not providing quality care for your patients. Yes, we do allow the computer to calculate formulas & prescriptions, but you should know by now that that is not always what satisfies the patient -- manual adjustments are made to formulas based on the complaints of the patient, and then we counsel, counsel, and counsel some more!

 

[phishkabob]

I am sorry to dig up an old thread. As a first-year audiologist in private practice, I feel that I can provide a little more insight. First, audiologists absolutely can make a diagnosis (you are very misled if you think otherwise). It is certainly within our scope to make a diagnosis. For example, audiologists diagnosis a range of vestibular conditions, including BPPV, vestibulopathy, vertigo of central origin, etc. We also make the primary diagnosis and define hearing loss. I am actually a vestibular specialist and all of my patients come from physician referrals. I am sent dizzy and off balance patients because many physicians do NOT feel comfortable making or defining a vestibular or auditory-type diagnosis (outside of otology and ENT). My wife happens to be a physician and she often defers to me for this information...

I also find it laughable that anyone would actually feel that Ph.D.s have higher earning potential. The Ph.D. is primarily an academic degree, which are some of the lowest payed jobs in our field. I am employed by a large private audiology practice (in my first year) and I make significantly more than my father-in-law who is a full-professor Ph.D. With an Au.D., the sky is literally the limit. There is certainly room for private practitioners, which is how you make money as a healthcare provider. In reality, many universities (especially those that are state funded) are cutting positions as their budgets are running low. It can be very hard to find an academic position in today's economy. Also, our field created the Au.D. as the primary applied degree. The long-term goal for our field is to have Ph.D.s in academic settings and far less in private practice. You currently see a lot of Ph.D.s practicing, as the Au.D. is a relatively new development (if you previously wanted to acquire a higher-level degree, the Ph.D. was your only option). I assure all of you that this trend will continue in audiology and you will see far fewer Ph.D.s in private practice. Also, someone mentioned new audiologists making an annual salary in the low $50,000 range. This is bull. I was offered more than one job over $70,000/yr., as were many of my colleagues. I think your starting salary often depends more on your skill set, your connections, and where you completed your externship.

Many of the opinions and attitudes I have heard in this post are what have held our field back for a long time. Audiologists have the ability to be autonomous healthcare providers with a defined nitch. Honestly, most of the physicians I know treat me as a colleague with a high level of respect. In the real world (which many of the individuals posting in this thread have yet to see), the letters behind your name matter less than your skill level and patient care. My physician colleagues know I am an audiologist with an Au.D., and guess what, they still call me doctor... Honestly, I have yet to meet anyone who even cares what my degree is in. Patients and referring physicians give you respect if you earn it.

Audiology's biggest problem has always been its practicioners. Many audiologists are self defeating and generally have a negative attitude towards their knowledge base, skill level, and scope of practice. We are the experts on hearing and hearing loss. Many of us are also experts at identifying, defining, and treating vestibular disorders. We may not be able to prescribe medications or perform surgery, but few of the issues within our scope need medical management (less than 5% of hearing loss is medically manageable, and even fewer vestibular disorders need medical intervention).

Sorry for the long rant, but I felt inclined to give a first-hand answer to your questions. Many of the posters in this thread are hypothesizing, as they are still students. I hope my real world experience is useful.

 

[0U1988]

I am sorry to dig up an old thread. As a first-year audiologist in private practice, I feel that I can provide a little more insight. First, audiologists absolutely can make a diagnosis (you are very misled if you think otherwise). It is certainly within our scope to make a diagnosis. For example, audiologists diagnosis a range of vestibular conditions, including BPPV, vestibulopathy, vertigo of central origin, etc. We also make the primary diagnosis and define hearing loss. I am actually a vestibular specialist and all of my patients come from physician referrals. I am sent dizzy and off balance patients because many physicians do NOT feel comfortable making or defining a vestibular or auditory-type diagnosis (outside of otology and ENT). My wife happens to be a physician and she often defers to me for this information...

I also find it laughable that anyone would actually feel that Ph.D.s have higher earning potential. The Ph.D. is primarily an academic degree, which are some of the lowest payed jobs in our field. I am employed by a large private audiology practice (in my first year) and I make significantly more than my father-in-law who is a full-professor Ph.D. With an Au.D., the sky is literally the limit. There is certainly room for private practitioners, which is how you make money as a healthcare provider. In reality, many universities (especially those that are state funded) are cutting positions as their budgets are running low. It can be very hard to find an academic position in today's economy. Also, our field created the Au.D. as the primary applied degree. The long-term goal for our field is to have Ph.D.s in academic settings and far less in private practice. You currently see a lot of Ph.D.s practicing, as the Au.D. is a relatively new development (if you previously wanted to acquire a higher-level degree, the Ph.D. was your only option). I assure all of you that this trend will continue in audiology and you will see far fewer Ph.D.s in private practice. Also, someone mentioned new audiologists making an annual salary in the low $50,000 range. This is bull. I was offered more than one job over $70,000/yr., as were many of my colleagues. I think your starting salary often depends more on your skill set, your connections, and where you completed your externship.

Many of the opinions and attitudes I have heard in this post are what have held our field back for a long time. Audiologists have the ability to be autonomous healthcare providers with a defined nitch. Honestly, most of the physicians I know treat me as a colleague with a high level of respect. In the real world (which many of the individuals posting in this thread have yet to see), the letters behind your name matter less than your skill level and patient care. My physician colleagues know I am an audiologist with an Au.D., and guess what, they still call me doctor... Honestly, I have yet to meet anyone who even cares what my degree is in. Patients and referring physicians give you respect if you earn it.

Audiology's biggest problem has always been its practicioners. Many audiologists are self defeating and generally have a negative attitude towards their knowledge base, skill level, and scope of practice. We are the experts on hearing and hearing loss. Many of us are also experts at identifying, defining, and treating vestibular disorders. We may not be able to prescribe medications or perform surgery, but few of the issues within our scope need medical management (less than 5% of hearing loss is medically manageable, and even fewer vestibular disorders need medical intervention).

Sorry for the long rant, but I felt inclined to give a first-hand answer to your questions. Many of the posters in this thread are hypothesizing, as they are still students. I hope my real world experience is useful.

Where did you go too school at?

 

[phishkabob]

I went to Nova Southeastern. The whole audiologists cannot make a diagnosis idea really is the "old" way of thinking. I believe that the general consensus is that audiologists do not make a medical diagnosis (only a physician should be doing this), but can make a diagnosis within their scope.

 

[0U1988]

I went to Nova Southeastern. The whole audiologists cannot make a diagnosis idea really is the "old" way of thinking. I believe that the general consensus is that audiologists do not make a medical diagnosis (only a physician should be doing this), but can make a diagnosis within their scope.

Nova Southeastern I'm think about applying there in the future how is it? I've heard they have state of the art facilities and opportunities to travel i seen they went to Trinidad. would you there recommend the school and how often to they take mission trips overseas?
~thanks

 

[DrumHead]

thanks for posting bob. I appreciate your insight.

 

[phishkabob]

Nova Southeastern I'm think about applying there in the future how is it? I've heard they have state of the art facilities and opportunities to travel i seen they went to Trinidad. would you there recommend the school and how often to they take mission trips overseas?
~thanks

I really enjoyed my time at NSU and would HIGHLY recommend it. I have met individuals who have gone to a wide range of excellent (and better known) schools, and I feel that my knowledge base was equal to or above many of them. I directly relate this back to my time at Nova. Honestly, if I had to do it over again, I would definitely choose NSU a second time...

 

[Dustbug10]

Thanks Bob...

 

[Audtruth]

I am an audiologist with 15 years experience (half in private practice). In terms of salary the majority of audiologists make an income based on what they can sell (hospital audiologists excluded). (I have made from 88 000 to 145 000 year over the past 6 years)

Most audiologists sell hearing aids (hopefully ethically). Most audiologists in private practice make all or the vast majority of their income from hearing aids (billing for tests is nearly impossible when hearing aid dispensers,often your main competition, offer "free tests" 5 minute tests)

If you have your own practice and are charismatic you will do well (unlimited potential). If you work for an ENT and sell a lot of aids you will have bargaining power and can do reasonably well. If you feel selling aids is not your cup of tea you are best in a hospital or research setting.

 

[brianse]

I second that this will never happen. You can't easily take away from someone else's scope of practice. Not to mention, the HIS have a reasonable strong lobby. Oftentimes they collaborate with AAO-HNS (the ENTs) against us as a common enemy.

ENTs don't want us to step on their toes and the HIS don't want us to be able to do anything they cant do

IT doesn't bother me enough to not want to become an audiologist, I'm just showing the facts of the profession. I personally feel that Audiologist should worry a little about HIS and the SOC. I think that either our education needs to be furthered to make a clearer distinction between the two of us, or it should be made to were a Doctor has to write a prescription for a hearing aids, with a full hearing exam provided by either Audiologist or ENT. Meaning that even adults couldn't sign a wavier and get a hearing aid without a proper exam from a qualified professional(AuD/ENT). This could also help with some of the stigma and sustain people feel towards people who sale hearing aids in general. I don't think i have to pick another career path speech pathology, optometry, psychology, etc, instead i think Audiology can follow the path and model of some of these professions and become better. Hopefully in the future some of these shortcomings will be corrected and think it begins with better education and stronger curriculum. I think as audiologist regardless if you decide to sale hearing aids or not , should be insulted that majority can't tell us apart from HIS.

I am a current audiology student and have been a licensed dispenser for over five years. In reading these posts, none of you seem to know the history of the two fields. It used to be considered a "conflict of interests" for an audiologist to dispense hearing aids. Hearing aid dispensers actually existed before audiologists. If anyone moved in on anyone else's "turf" it was the opposite of what everyone here seems to be stating. There are several skills which audiologists bring to the table (this is why I am back in school) but properly fitting a hearing aid for a standard case of presbycusis can be accomplished by a dispenser. Dispensers are not going anywhere, and I believe that you should all look at ways to work with them in order to advance our professions and provide the patient with the best care possible. Meet with your local dispensers, they run into problems on a regular basis that they send to an M.D. When they could send them to you and improve your profitability. The problem is that you are too concerned with the big ticket item (hearing aids) and are scared to lose that sale. I have outstanding relationships with two Audiologists in my area and we augment each others practices instead of bashing each other. They have even helped me in my studies.

 

[TheEarDoc]

I am a current audiology student and have been a licensed dispenser for over five years. In reading these posts, none of you seem to know the history of the two fields. It used to be considered a "conflict of interests" for an audiologist to dispense hearing aids. Hearing aid dispensers actually existed before audiologists. If anyone moved in on anyone else's "turf" it was the opposite of what everyone here seems to be stating. There are several skills which audiologists bring to the table (this is why I am back in school) but properly fitting a hearing aid for a standard case of presbycusis can be accomplished by a dispenser. Dispensers are not going anywhere, and I believe that you should all look at ways to work with them in order to advance our professions and provide the patient with the best care possible. Meet with your local dispensers, they run into problems on a regular basis that they send to an M.D. When they could send them to you and improve your profitability. The problem is that you are too concerned with the big ticket item (hearing aids) and are scared to lose that sale. I have outstanding relationships with two Audiologists in my area and we augment each others practices instead of bashing each other. They have even helped me in my studies.

From someone who has been in this game for a little while, I can assure you that you're the exception, not the norm to this. I have seen some horrible things from dealer's offices (RIC hearing aids on severe to profound losses, hearing aids with compression ratios of 3.0+, open fits on moderate to profound losses, demo hearing aids sold at cost, patients with all the signs of active middle ear disease without ENT referral, etc.). I've seen some extremely unethical advertising programs by dealers ("free" hearing tests only because you can't bill for them as a dealer and by hearing tests you mean a pure tone screening in an open room without any sound attenuation, "perfect hearing with the use of X device", etc.).

I am also well versed on the history of both professions. You can blame ASHA for helping with the dispensers getting to dispense hearing aids before audiologists. ASHA thought it was a conflict of interest for audiologists to "sell" hearing aids. So an audiologist did the test then sent the patient to Radio Shack or the Zenith hearing aid dealer. I work with a couple audiologist in the VA system who remember these days well. You're also right that most likely dealers are never going away (I think they should be severely limited to what they can do from a simple healthcare standpoint), but I do agree with you that audiologists need to expand their scope of practice. Hearing aids should not be the bread and butter of our profession. We should be pushing more towards becoming limited liability practitioners like dentists and optometrists. Able to prescribe basic antibiotics for otitis media and allergy issues. From someone who was in nursing and was on the way to becoming a nurse practitioner, I can tell you it would not take many courses to be as proficient with pharmacology as an FNP or a PA. I have no problem with dealers staying in the field, but I think they should be grandfathered out for being able to function independently. They should also be required to maintain more stringent CEU's, ethics by-laws, and licensure by-laws. I see them as working under a licensed audiologist in the future much the way many nurse pracs and PA's function. Optometry nailed the model correctly. The opticians can fit and sell you glasses, but only the optometrist can do your testing and write your prescription for your glasses.

I have known several dealers. A couple I had a good relationship with because they were highly ethical people and weren't just about the sales. I'm happy you are deciding to become an audiologist because you want to learn more.

 

[KCO47]

Is there a trend of increasing salaries with the first batch of Au.D.'s making their way into the job market? I don't think websites like payscale.com or salary.com are appropriate since most statistics include Master's level audiologists. I am going to begin my first semester as a student in the Au.D. program in the fall, and would like to know some of the trends that may pop up when it's time for me to enter the workforce. I will be 26 when I finish everything up and plan at this time to remain in the south in a state where the standard of living is fairly low.

If you work in a setting with commission, you can do pretty well. When I interviewed for my first job out of school, I said that I wanted the potential to make $70k and nobody blinked.

 

[100742173]

sorry, what is "VA"?

 

[TheEarDoc]

I cleared 100k this year working one full time job and one per diem gig 3-4 days a month. It can easily be done. You just have to know how to negotiate. There is plenty of money to be made in this field to live comfortably. Did I mention neither job required me to sell hearing aids?