School Psychology PhD/PsyD thread

[FadedC]

As a student in NYC, my adviser basically said that any non APA internship here generally does not pay. School internships tend to be non APA so they are unlikely to have a salary (in the NYC area).

On the plus side I've found that there are a good number of paid externship sites here, particularly in assessment. The salaries of these are frequently pretty good for student work.

Head west, my friend

I have heard that with some exceptions (e.g. bilingual) that school internships in NYC/NJ/Boston generally do not pay. There are some places in northeast I have heard about from others that do pay - Philadelphia comes to mind ($15,000 is the internship salary I heard from one individual I met at NASP going on internship, 2 years ago I believe). In the midwest, internship salaries are generally in the $40s and above (with Chicago being a big exception, where I have heard salaries are $15,000 for internship year in the schools).

Salaries for school psychs working in schools tend to vary - broadly from state to state, but can also vary within state. For example, NYC school internships generally do NOT pay. However, if you are willing to work upstate (e.g. Syracuse, Buffalo and other places in upstate NY) I have heard that salaries of $15,000 to $20,000 are common for the internship year.

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[futureapppsy2]

Ditto.



The devil is in the details. Coursework, didactics, practica, etc. are all needed. People often skimp on neuroanatomy, neurophysiology, and related classes, but they are just as important. Many psychologists want to "dabble" in neuropsychology, which is asking for trouble.

Anything short of the Houston Guidelines really isn't sufficient. If a school psychology program (or joint clinical/school) can provide all of the requisite training and mentorship, and the person completes a formal neuropsychology fellowship that conforms to the Houston Guidelines....then (in my eyes) that person has demonstrated their competency to practice neuropsychology.

My school psych program has a neuro track which includes, among other courses, neuroanatomy and neuro genetics and development. We also have a good number of students who get practicum placements at large, nationally known hospitals for nero and peds psych and similar internships. I'm not interested in neuro at this point, so I don't know too much about it, but it seems pretty solid. That said, only a couple of the school psych programs I looked at really seemed to offer substantive neuropsych training.

 

[school psych]

As someone in a school psych program, I have completed a majority of my interviews for predoctoral internship, all of which were within either hospital/medical or outpatient centers (no schools). Several of these were at what most folks consider highly competitive placements. So, training is what you make of it Hope that helps!

aagman:
My understanding is that you have to do at least 600 of your internship hours in a school setting for NASP... How do you get those hours in if you're placed in a nonschool setting? Just curious because this is what I'm considering.

 

[aagman01]

Hey there -

I have read the same thing. I am not 100% sure, but I think you would not qualify for NASP endorsement per se right away. You may have to get some work experience in the schools to qualify for it. Fortunately, NASP endorsement is not necessary for getting a job or the like. Every state differs on the requirements to work as a "school psychologist". They generally require a few hundred practicum hours in the schools plus internship of at least 600 hours. Its comparable in some ways, at least with regards to the requirement differences between states, that exist for psych licensure. While there is a great deal of overlap, every state education board has its own specific requisites.

There are several ways around that. Many districts in states will hire an employee "provisionally". If you can arrange that, you could apply for state credentials (and also NASP endorsement) after work experience (I have heard of such an example before, in Arizona). In other states, however, if your degree is not in school psychology (e.g. clinical) you may have to take several specific courses. It can really vary by state. Some states, from what I've heard, don't even require anything beyond a masters degree and have no requisites that specifiy it has to be in school psychology (I believe it was a sparsely populated state). Again, you'll have to look at your specific state for how that will work. GOod luck!

aagman:
My understanding is that you have to do at least 600 of your internship hours in a school setting for NASP... How do you get those hours in if you're placed in a nonschool setting? Just curious because this is what I'm considering.

 

[ILGirl]

Hey there -

I have read the same thing. I am not 100% sure, but I think you would not qualify for NASP endorsement per se right away. You may have to get some work experience in the schools to qualify for it. Fortunately, NASP endorsement is not necessary for getting a job or the like. Every state differs on the requirements to work as a "school psychologist". They generally require a few hundred practicum hours in the schools plus internship of at least 600 hours. Its comparable in some ways, at least with regards to the requirement differences between states, that exist for psych licensure. While there is a great deal of overlap, every state education board has its own specific requisites.

Again, you'll have to look at your specific state for how that will work. GOod luck!

This link will give you some idea about what each state requires for licensure: http://www.nasponline.org/certification/state_info_list.aspx

If you want to work in a school district, some states even require that the entire internship take place within a school district. Some states even dictate the number of practicum hours they want students to acquire. This would not be an issue for PhD level school psychologists. However, if you end up in a specialist program, you need to make sure that you choose one that will give you enough practicum hours for the state(s) in which you want to live.

It is really important that you get an idea of the state or states that interest you, so you can plan your coursework accordingly.

 

[school psych]

This link will give you some idea about what each state requires for licensure: http://www.nasponline.org/certification/state_info_list.aspx

If you want to work in a school district, some states even require that the entire internship take place within a school district. Some states even dictate the number of practicum hours they want students to acquire. This would not be an issue for PhD level school psychologists. However, if you end up in a specialist program, you need to make sure that you choose one that will give you enough practicum hours for the state(s) in which you want to live.

It is really important that you get an idea of the state or states that interest you, so you can plan your coursework accordingly.

Definitely something to consider... Thanks for the info guys!

 

[coldsweat]

I'm not sure if you saw my post from before, but I'm unhappy currently in my clinical program and I'm thinking about sticking around until I get my master's and the doing a developmental or school psych degree. How are applicants to school programs that have a MA in clinical psych generally viewed in the application process?

I didn't see a reply to your question, so you should know that a MA in clinical psych will generally NOT be viewed negatively by school psych programs. In my program, about 1 of 4 students has a master's degree. Speaking to my professors who are reviewing applications for this cycle, they appear to appreciate previous work/advanced schooling as long as you display a research fit them with them.

 

[futureapppsy2]

I didn't see a reply to your question, so you should know that a MA in clinical psych will generally NOT be viewed negatively by school psych programs. In my program (school psych PhD), about 1 of 4 students has a master's degree. Speaking to my professors who are reviewing applications for this cycle, they appear to appreciate previous work/advanced schooling as long as you display a research fit them with them.

In my program, 6 out of the 10 people in my cohort have previous graduate work (four have MA/EdS degrees in School Psych, one has an MSW, and one has prior graduate work in psych but no graduate degree). I also know of at least one person in another cohort who has an MA in Clinical Psych. I agree that as long as you can explain "why school psych?" and demonstrate a good research match, it shouldn't hurt you.

 

[aagman01]

Agreed.........my program also has some folks with MSW and clinical master degrees. Solid research and practicum experiences (especially with children/adolescents) will only enhance your chance of admission. Likewise, good grades in important classes (particularly research methods/statistics) is also beneficial. Good luck

In my program, 6 out of the 10 people in my cohort have previous graduate work (four have MA/EdS degrees in School Psych, one has an MSW, and one has prior graduate work in psych but no graduate degree). I also know of at least one person in another cohort who has an MA in Clinical Psych. I agree that as long as you can explain "why school psych?" and demonstrate a good research match, it shouldn't hurt you.

 

[FadedC]

I also had a MA before going into my current School Psychology PhD program. My program has a good mix of those who have a MA and those who do not.

 

[PhdApp11]

This might be a better place to ask. Just wondering if anyone knows if all the invites for the School Psychology program at UMaryland, College Park were extended? Thanks for any feedback!

 

[123FakeStreet]

I don't know about that program, sorry. But I was wondering if you knew if gradcafe had a school psych interview invite thread??

I'm waiting on the combined program at Buffalo.

Good Luck to you during this process!

This might be a better place to ask. Just wondering if anyone knows if all the invites for the School Psychology program at UMaryland, College Park were extended? Thanks for any feedback!

 

[ILGirl]

I don't know about that program, sorry. But I was wondering if you knew if gradcafe had a school psych interview invite thread??

I'm waiting on the combined program at Buffalo.

Good Luck to you during this process!

Just go under search and put "school psychology" in quotes. All the schools that have been posted on their site should pop up.

 

[chelhet]

This might be a better place to ask. Just wondering if anyone knows if all the invites for the School Psychology program at UMaryland, College Park were extended? Thanks for any feedback!

It wasn't a mass e-mail, so it is possible they have more to send out. I've been in touch with the program graduate assistant, and she said the program director is at a conference this week, so that could cause some delays. I would contact the grad assistant if I were you, PM me if you want her info.

 

[FadedC]

Just go under search and put "school psychology" in quotes. All the schools that have been posted on their site should pop up.

You can also just type the university your interested in and see all the postings for the different programs.

 

[PhdApp11]

It wasn't a mass e-mail, so it is possible they have more to send out. I've been in touch with the program graduate assistant, and she said the program director is at a conference this week, so that could cause some delays. I would contact the grad assistant if I were you, PM me if you want her info.

Thanks so much for the update. That gives me some hope. The wait is so brutal.

123FakeStreet, there haven't really been any active invite threads on the gradcafe forum. As other people mentioned, the gradcafe results page is the best place to find out the interviews.

Good luck!!

 

[athenax]

I second that "thank you"... I also applied to U Maryland and I was pretty disappointed when I saw that invites went out. Here's hoping!

To any of the folks in school psych programs already, had any of you interviewed at PSU? Any tips if so?

Good luck again to everybody waiting to hear back... it's getting stressful now

 

[yfan08]

I got an interview from UD. This is the first one i got so far. Probably i will interviewed nest Tuesday. Very disappointed about the results--so far just one interview. 15ppl being interviewed, only 2 will get accepted at doctoral level =(. Godd luck to myself!

 

[athenax]

Received an email from UMaryland saying that they weren't offering me an in person interview but that

"Your application remains under review. By mid-March, we will be able to know if we are in the position of offering you an interview for admissions – likely by telephone. Of course, we hope that you will remain interested in our program and that you will still be available for an interview in mid- to late-March if we are able to offer such."

Kinda weird, but I guess this is in case those they accept initially don't decide to attend there? I'm not counting on this, though.

 

[jnine]

Received an email from UMaryland saying that they weren't offering me an in person interview but that

"Your application remains under review. By mid-March, we will be able to know if we are in the position of offering you an interview for admissions – likely by telephone. Of course, we hope that you will remain interested in our program and that you will still be available for an interview in mid- to late-March if we are able to offer such."

Kinda weird, but I guess this is in case those they accept initially don't decide to attend there? I'm not counting on this, though.

That's what they're doing. I think Maryland likes to hold their cards close and be especially careful thinking about who they accept as they basically guarantee funding for all their students, and they like to keep you on the back burner if they're not sure. But as you assumed, since you weren't offered an interview you're probably not on their short list.

I interviewed there and was waitlisted but they kept in touch with 2? e-mails. I got the feeling during the interview that they were trying to peer into my brain and understand if i reeeealy wanted to come there, or mabye it was just wondering if I would really fit there.

If I were in your situation, i'd reply to the e-mail with a little self-marketing. tell them i'd be delighted to hear from them and in one or two sentences tell them why I was such a great fit for their program. I think you've everything to gain and noting to lose good luck!

 

[athenax]

That's what they're doing. I think Maryland likes to hold their cards close and be especially careful thinking about who they accept as they basically guarantee funding for all their students, and they like to keep you on the back burner if they're not sure. But as you assumed, since you weren't offered an interview you're probably not on their short list.

I interviewed there and was waitlisted but they kept in touch with 2? e-mails. I got the feeling during the interview that they were trying to peer into my brain and understand if i reeeealy wanted to come there, or mabye it was just wondering if I would really fit there.

If I were in your situation, i'd reply to the e-mail with a little self-marketing. tell them i'd be delighted to hear from them and in one or two sentences tell them why I was such a great fit for their program. I think you've everything to gain and noting to lose good luck!

Thanks for the info on how they operate! It's a shame because initially they were at the top of my list, but thankfully I've been accepted elsewhere, so I'm really apathetic about their program now. It's funny how different your perspective is after interviewing when you *really* get to see how you fit in different programs!

Good luck to you, too!

 

[tgkny]

Anyone else waiting to hear from Hofstra's school-community psyD?? Bugging out here.

 

[VerticalxLimit]

Anyone else waiting to hear from Hofstra's school-community psyD?? Bugging out here.

Not yet. Supposedly they're reviewing apps on a rolling basis, so it's not a bad sign if you haven't heard from them yet.

 

[chelhet]

Is the person who posted an MSU acceptance on GradCafe around here? If so could you please PM me? Thank you!!

 

[TimeCat]

I'm currently waiting to hear back from clinical psychology phd programs with little to no word. I'm not feeling particularly optimistic; however, it seems to be a blessing in disguise. After stumbling across this extremely helpful thread and doing a bit of my own research, it sounds like school psychology (something I hadn't even heard of before applying to clinical psych programs) is something I'd be way more interested in.

With that said, I think I'm going to apply to school psychology phd programs next year. Is there any advice that you have for someone who is first learning about school psychology? What are some things you wish you knew sooner?

Also, I was wondering if there is a GRE "cut off" score that you need to pass in order for admissions to seriously look at your application. I know it varies according to school but, in clinical psychology at least, there is an understanding that you need something above 1200 for the vast majority of programs. Is there something similar to this for school psychology?

Thank you so much!

 

[tgkny]

The only "cut off" that I have been told of really was for Hofstra. The professor there said they typically like to see "600 across the board".
Other than that the other programs I've been depending on their reported means and medians from their websites. I have just below a 600, and Fordham's PhD program still invited me to interview, but then again I am almost certain they didn't list a Psyc GRE score on their admissions requirements. Just like for clinical programs, that’s probably your best bet.

As for advice, my main thing is that I've had people straight up tell me not to do it, the burn out rate is so high, you'll never find a job. But interestingly enough, all these people were other people involved in education, but not school psychologists. Now I'm interning in a large school district with a ton of school psychologists, and their attitude is so different. I mean yea, right now economy sucks, and they're not always hiring, but it's bound to change and people are going to start retiring eventually. At least we have like 5 years before we have to start worrying about this stuff.
Plus, at least in the school districts I'm in, when it comes to laying people off, the psychologists are almost never cut because the work load cannot be added onto anyone else if they lose someone.
So bottom line don't always listen to what people say, unless they are actual psychologists telling you. lol.

Hope this helps.

I'm currently waiting to hear back from clinical psychology phd programs with little to no word. I'm not feeling particularly optimistic; however, it seems to be a blessing in disguise. After stumbling across this extremely helpful thread and doing a bit of my own research, it sounds like school psychology (something I hadn't even heard of before applying to clinical psych programs) is something I'd be way more interested in.

With that said, I think I'm going to apply to school psychology phd programs next year. Is there any advice that you have for someone who is first learning about school psychology? What are some things you wish you knew sooner?

Also, I was wondering if there is a GRE "cut off" score that you need to pass in order for admissions to seriously look at your application. I know it varies according to school but, in clinical psychology at least, there is an understanding that you need something above 1200 for the vast majority of programs. Is there something similar to this for school psychology?

Thank you so much!

 

[FadedC]

The only "cut off" that I have been told of really was for Hofstra. The professor there said they typically like to see "600 across the board".
Other than that the other programs I've been depending on their reported means and medians from their websites. I have just below a 600, and Fordham's PhD program still invited me to interview, but then again I am almost certain they didn't list a Psyc GRE score on their admissions requirements. Just like for clinical programs, that’s probably your best bet.

As for advice, my main thing is that I've had people straight up tell me not to do it, the burn out rate is so high, you'll never find a job. But interestingly enough, all these people were other people involved in education, but not school psychologists. Now I'm interning in a large school district with a ton of school psychologists, and their attitude is so different. I mean yea, right now economy sucks, and they're not always hiring, but it's bound to change and people are going to start retiring eventually. At least we have like 5 years before we have to start worrying about this stuff.
Plus, at least in the school districts I'm in, when it comes to laying people off, the psychologists are almost never cut because the work load cannot be added onto anyone else if they lose someone.
So bottom line don't always listen to what people say, unless they are actual psychologists telling you. lol.

Hope this helps.

Fordham does not require the Psych GRE. And yeah the world of school psychology employment is so different from both other educational fields and even other psychological fields that you can't really go at all by what someone who is not a school psychologist says. Things may not be perfect now with all the budget cuts, but in general we still have it much better then anyone else.

 

[aagman01]

I think there is some leniency with GRE score. I got above 1200 (590 verbal and 640 math, if I recall correctly....it was several years ago when I took them). From what I have read and seen, it seems like, overall, school psych tends to have lower GREs than clinical (I think I saw a thread on here, where the average was around an 1160....but I could be wrong). However, I think it can vary greatly on program.

I'm currently waiting to hear back from clinical psychology phd programs with little to no word. I'm not feeling particularly optimistic; however, it seems to be a blessing in disguise. After stumbling across this extremely helpful thread and doing a bit of my own research, it sounds like school psychology (something I hadn't even heard of before applying to clinical psych programs) is something I'd be way more interested in.

With that said, I think I'm going to apply to school psychology phd programs next year. Is there any advice that you have for someone who is first learning about school psychology? What are some things you wish you knew sooner?

Also, I was wondering if there is a GRE "cut off" score that you need to pass in order for admissions to seriously look at your application. I know it varies according to school but, in clinical psychology at least, there is an understanding that you need something above 1200 for the vast majority of programs. Is there something similar to this for school psychology?

Thank you so much!

 

[TimeCat]

As for advice, my main thing is that I've had people straight up tell me not to do it, the burn out rate is so high, you'll never find a job. But interestingly enough, all these people were other people involved in education, but not school psychologists. Now I'm interning in a large school district with a ton of school psychologists, and their attitude is so different. I mean yea, right now economy sucks, and they're not always hiring, but it's bound to change and people are going to start retiring eventually. At least we have like 5 years before we have to start worrying about this stuff.
Plus, at least in the school districts I'm in, when it comes to laying people off, the psychologists are almost never cut because the work load cannot be added onto anyone else if they lose someone.
So bottom line don't always listen to what people say, unless they are actual psychologists telling you. lol.

Hope this helps.

Thank you for the responses.

I have to ask, though: Why do you think the burnout rate is so high? What exactly is it that makes being a school psychologist so stressful? Or rather, are you saying that the high burnout rate is a misconception?

 

[aagman01]

For a good and comprehensive overview of school psychology roles and practices at both the masters/eds and doctoral level, get a copy of

Merrell, K. W., Ervin, R. A., & Gimpel, G. A. (2006). School psychology for the 21st century: Foundations and practices. New York, NY, US: Guilford Press.

Also, school psych historian ***an writes numerous books and articles on the topic as well including:

***an T. (2008). Trends in the history of school psychology in the United States. In A. Thomas & J. Grimes (Eds.), Best practices in school psychology (5th ed., pp. 2069-2085). Bethesda, MD: National Association of School Psychologists.

For a good survey on the roles/practices etc of school psychs available online, check out:

http://www.nasponline.org/publications/spr/pdf/spr331curtis.pdf

Or a range of information, check out the NASP page at:

http://www.nasponline.org/resources/listings.aspx

Good luck

Thank you for the responses.

I have to ask, though: Why do you think the burnout rate is so high? What exactly is it that makes being a school psychologist so stressful? Or rather, are you saying that the high burnout rate is a misconception?

 

[FadedC]

Thank you for the responses.

I have to ask, though: Why do you think the burnout rate is so high? What exactly is it that makes being a school psychologist so stressful? Or rather, are you saying that the high burnout rate is a misconception?

I don't think the burnout rate is high. I'm pretty sure from what the earlier poster was saying, that the people talking about high burnout rate were in other education fields. My understanding is that school psychologists actually have a tendency to stay working at the same school until retirement rather then bouncing around from job to job.

 

[tgkny]

Yea, the whole burnout rate thing was a misconception that I was repeatedly told about as an undergraduate, but once I got into a school, I've found that, at least in the district I'm in, no such burnout seems to exists.

Thank you for the responses.

I have to ask, though: Why do you think the burnout rate is so high? What exactly is it that makes being a school psychologist so stressful? Or rather, are you saying that the high burnout rate is a misconception?

 

[zoropsych]

Hi Everyone,

This seems like the most happenin' School Psych thread, so I'll post my questions here. I've been admitted to several School Psych Ph.D. programs, and now I'm sitting down to compare them. One program I'm very interested in is UC Berkeley, but (as has been mentioned here before), Berkeley does not have NASP approval, and most (if not all) students do not go to APA/APPIC approved internship sites.

My question is: what effect will non-NASP approval and non-APA/APPIC internship have on my future as a school psychologist?

I'm interested in both working in schools and in doing research as a professor. I've heard that APA or APPIC accredited internships are required for some faculty positions, but would several years of experience as a school psych in the schools override that?

Thanks for all the great info (already posted and yet to come!)

--zp

 

[aagman01]

Is Berkley funded? When I applied to programs a few years back it wasn't.

Regarding NASP accredition, doesn't really matter that much at the phd level. Especially if you are going to a school with a solid name like Berkley. Certainly wouldn't hurt if it were, but again, NASP is not the be all end all.

You can still get NASP certification. You will just need to exhibit "competency", which you likely would do in any reputable program. A friend of mine did that, and had no problems getting NASP certification (who went to a non-NASP EDS program) - I know she needed to show: signed practicum hours, provision of a portfolio with NASP competencies demonstrated (which she completed in her program anyways), a letter from her program director in support of certification, and copies of syllabi from all courses completed in her training program. I may be missing one or 2 things, but overall I do recall her saying it was not too difficult.

I would look into the program and try to find out why students don't go the APA route for internship. I know my advisor did NOT do an APA internship, and he is tendured and respected in the field (and completed his phd in 2000, so not that long ago). However, I know the 2 newest faculty members in my program both did APA internships. I think I heard that at Berkley they do 2 1/2 year internships? Anyways, look into the reasons why. Not doing an internship outside of the schools would make it difficult for you to get psych licensure or do much besides work in schools or teaching/research. Lastly, though, I would also say that the newest faculty in my program (who completed internship 2 years ago) said when she was applying for faculty jobs that NO ONE asked or seemed to care about her internship. So, outside of a few programs it MAY not matter that much. I would look around. Good luck

Hi Everyone,

This seems like the most happenin' School Psych thread, so I'll post my questions here. I've been admitted to several School Psych Ph.D. programs, and now I'm sitting down to compare them. One program I'm very interested in is UC Berkeley, but (as has been mentioned here before), Berkeley does not have NASP approval, and most (if not all) students do not go to APA/APPIC approved internship sites.

My question is: what effect will non-NASP approval and non-APA/APPIC internship have on my future as a school psychologist?

I'm interested in both working in schools and in doing research as a professor. I've heard that APA or APPIC accredited internships are required for some faculty positions, but would several years of experience as a school psych in the schools override that?

Thanks for all the great info (already posted and yet to come!)

--zp

 

[athenax]

For a good and comprehensive overview of school psychology roles and practices at both the masters/eds and doctoral level, get a copy of

Merrell, K. W., Ervin, R. A., & Gimpel, G. A. (2006). School psychology for the 21st century

I second this , I've applied to all School Psych programs this round and I bought this book beforehand to get an inside scoop of the field. It was GREAT in clearing up a lot of questions I had about where the field is going. Similar advice would be to talk to actual school psychologists, I haven't, but I've gotten that question ("Have you actually spoken with a school psychologist?") at interviews so it may be something to look into.

GRE wise, I think the average is a bit lower than the 1200 for clinical, but it's pretty similar. More School Psych programs require the Psych subject test, so that's something to look out for.

 

[athenax]

Also, this is a bit dated (2009), but I don't see it changing that much in two years:

"The job outlook for school psychologists should be strong. Many are reaching retirement age. Plus, parents of children with special needs are increasingly emboldened—and often armed with lawyers threatening to sue school districts if desired services are not provided. In addition, the media are focusing on many of the problems school psychologists deal with: autism, school violence, bullying, and Ritalin prescriptions for active boys...."

http://money.usnews.com/money/careers/articles/2008/12/11/best-careers-2009-school-psychologist

 

[zoropsych]

Berkeley doesn't guarantee funding for all students (none of the programs I applied to do), but the large majority of students seem to be able to find funding, usually through TA or RAships.

I believe students don't go the APA route for internships because the program is structured such that students take local internships so they can continue to take classes and meet with their advisers. It is a 2 half-time model, but different from what I think of when I hear that term. There's a half-time "community internship" in the 3rd year, a "mimimum half-time" paid school-based internship in the 4th year (it seems like most are more than half-time), and then dissertation in the 5th year.

I'm convinced that the program will give me great training, I just want to make sure I have all my acronyms/abbreviations lined up so I'm not left stranded later on.

I'm also considering the University of Utah, does anyone here have any experience with that program or have a feel for its reputation in the field?

Thanks all for your help!

Is Berkley funded? When I applied to programs a few years back it wasn't.

I would look into the program and try to find out why students don't go the APA route for internship.

 

[FadedC]

I would look into the program and try to find out why students don't go the APA route for internship. I know my advisor did NOT do an APA internship, and he is tendured and respected in the field (and completed his phd in 2000, so not that long ago). However, I know the 2 newest faculty members in my program both did APA internships. I think I heard that at Berkley they do 2 1/2 year internships? Anyways, look into the reasons why. Not doing an internship outside of the schools would make it difficult for you to get psych licensure or do much besides work in schools or teaching/research. Lastly, though, I would also say that the newest faculty in my program (who completed internship 2 years ago) said when she was applying for faculty jobs that NO ONE asked or seemed to care about her internship. So, outside of a few programs it MAY not matter that much. I would look around. Good luck

My understanding is that when looking for academic job as a school psychologist, experience as a school psychologist and research/publication experience are the primary things valued, and that the APA status of your internship is not considered that significant. Though obviously your mileage may vary. If your trying to go straight to academia then I think the important thing would be to have your internship be something that added to the experience they are looking for.

 

[TimeCat]

Figured I'd bump up this thread...

I will be applying to school psychology programs this year (anyone else out there?). However, despite perusing the NASP website and the internet in general for differences between phd and specialist level degrees, I still can't decide which course I'd rather take.

I plan on applying to both types of programs, but I was wondering if those who have school psych phds or specialist level degrees (and those who are still in school) could share their experiences with either course. Are you glad you pursued a phd over a specialist level degree, or vice versa? What made you decide to go for one over the other? Thanks!

 

[smitten]

I plan on applying to both types of programs, but I was wondering if those who have school psych phds or specialist level degrees (and those who are still in school) could share their experiences with either course. Are you glad you pursued a phd over a specialist level degree, or vice versa? What made you decide to go for one over the other? Thanks!

I'm a school psych PhD student. If you want the options to work in academia or in non-school settings, you should pursue a PhD. States handle school psych credentialing in different ways, and I believe there are some places where you can practice outside of schools at the specialist level, but I would count on being limited to school settings. The specialist degree was not an option for me because I'm interested in academia and want flexibility with respect to independent/non-school practice, and I'm happy with my decision. (Though as I enter my 4th year with only half of my training behind me, the specialist degree is looking pretty good .)

If you're set on working only in schools, there's really not much point in going beyond the specialist level. Practice in schools is regulated by certification (versus licensure), and it makes no difference which degree you hold in order to become certified. The vast majority of school psychologists have subdoctoral degrees.

However, every once in a while, APA remembers that it's unhappy with school psychologists being credentialed as such at the specialist level and throws a temper tantrum about it, even though it has been this way for decades and school psychologists are fairly unified in support of the exception (e.g., in the most recent uproar, APA Div 16 (mostly doctoral) lobbied with NASP (mostly subdoctoral) to maintain the exception). I don't see the exception being taken away any time soon, but it's a possibility that I would not have been comfortable with, personally, if I'd gone the specialist route.

Good luck.

 

[FadedC]

Well even if the exception were taken away, it would be in name only and not effect job responsibilities. But even that is extremely unlikely to happen. Even if the APA changed it's mind about supporting the exception, it's very likely that the states would just ignore them.

I'm also happy to be a phd but also because I want the flexibility. If I did not want it, it would probably have made more sense to get a specialist degree. PhDs do earn a little more money and may have a slightly easier time being hired in their top choice of schools, but that's probably not worth the extra years of being in school from a purely practical perspective.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Though as I enter my 4th year with only half of my training behind me, the specialist degree is looking pretty good .)

I take it you're counting a post-doc in that?

 

[2012PhD]

I think the master's in school psychology can do pretty well financially. One my close friends has the specialist degree from san diego state. It was a 3 year program and fully funded with a stipend. Her current salary is 94K two years out at a public school in LA. She is earning more than phd level psychologists i know.

 

[smitten]

I take it you're counting a post-doc in that?

Nope, 5 years + internship. Counting postdoc puts me less than halfway. *sigh*

 

[smitten]

Well even if the exception were taken away, it would be in name only and not effect job responsibilities. But even that is extremely unlikely to happen. Even if the APA changed it's mind about supporting the exception, it's very likely that the states would just ignore them.

This is generally true, but if I remember correctly, there are some jurisdictions where removing the exception would cause problems for subdoctoral practitioners, at least in the short term, because of wording in the laws specifically requiring a school psychologist credential to work in the schools. But, yes, I agree that it's extremely unlikely to happen. I brought it up merely because I would be bothered by pressure from APA to dissolve my credential if I held a specialist degree, and this is another reason I'm happy I went with the PhD.

 

[FadedC]

This is generally true, but if I remember correctly, there are some jurisdictions where removing the exception would cause problems, at least in the short term, for subdoctoral practitioners because of wording in the laws specifically requiring a school psychologist credential to work in the schools. But, yes, I agree that it's extremely unlikely to happen. I brought it up merely because I would be bothered by pressure from APA to dissolve my credential if I held a specialist degree, and this is another reason I'm happy I went with the PhD.

That's my understanding as well, but the exception would never be removed unless all of that wording was changed at the same time. Otherwise it wouldn't just cause problem for specialist level practioners, it would be a disaster for the school system in general.

 

[FadedC]

Nope, 5 years + internship. Counting postdoc puts me less than halfway. *sigh*

We only do 4 years + internship where I am. Though many people take much longer then that to graduate due to the fact that you can become a full school psychologist before you graduate, and once people are making high salaries the motivation to finish your dissertation apparently dries up

 

[smitten]

We only do 4 years + internship where I am. Though many people take much longer then that to graduate due to the fact that you can become a full school psychologist before you graduate, and once people are making high salaries the motivation to finish your dissertation apparently dries up

Oh, there's definitely no high salary keeping me from finishing . I just decided it would be worth an extra year to get my dissertation done and a few more publications under my belt before internship. That's interesting about people in your program working as actual school psychologists before graduating though -- I'd never heard of doing that.

 

[FadedC]

Oh, there's definitely no high salary keeping me from finishing . I just decided it would be worth an extra year to get my dissertation done and a few more publications under my belt before internship. That's interesting about people in your program working as actual school psychologists before graduating though -- I'd never heard of doing that.

Apparently you can get your certification once your internship is finished, but before your dissertation is done. At that point you can just go out and get a job as a school psychologist. If you keep your job after you graduate, then that's your post doc year.

 

[TimeCat]

Thanks for all the feedback. It's been super helpful.

It sounds like, for the most part, it'd be best to pursue the phd only if I want to have options outside of a school setting. Honestly, I do want those options, but I think I'd like to go into academia and other non-school settings only after I've worked in a school for a good handful of years.

In an ideal situation, I'd like to get the specialist degree, work in the school setting for a while, then go back to get my phd, and subsequently work in other types of settings. However, I feel like I'd end up kicking myself later for adding way more years of school than if I just got the phd in my first go around.

I'll admit, a lot of this is stemming from the fact that I'll be 25 before I can start grad school (I'm kind of itching to start my career) and I also don't really want to commit myself to a six year grad school program right now (it just seems so long and I don't really want to settle in one place for that amount of time right now). However, I also realize I'm young and have a hard time looking beyond the next year!

So, any advice?