I know this has been discussed before (ITE/SAE scores for pain fellowship) and I have checked out the previous threads but it seems like every year its different with some programs caring and the majority not (or so I have been led to believe). Have strong USMLE scores, with strong LORs, few publications, and strong SAE from PGY-2 year, but feeling not so great about latest SAE for PGY-3 year. Had very little time to study and likely will have a drop in score. How much do non-anesthesia applicants in-service training exams count towards pain fellowships compared to the anesthesia ITEs?
SAE for Pain Fellowship
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I don't think anyone really has a clue. Some programs don't even ask for them, some. I think if they ask for them then I would assume at that program it is an important metric since the programs get so many applications.
How would asking SAE scores be illegal? It is a test that measures your knowledge compared to peers at your same level. It is also one tool that they can use to be sure that you are on track to pass boards in your primary specialty because they don't want to take on people that may have issues becoming board certified in pain because they can't even be boarded in PM&R/Anes/Neuro/Pysch. Only about 1/2 the places I applied to asked to see them.
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It's not a standardized test. It's a SELF-assessment examination. My school won't release SAE's.
Yes it is technically a self assessment, but if you are a PGY-2 and have never seen the report before, you also get a comparative score to see how you did vs. other people in your same PGY class from across the US. You get a report back saying how you did in each of the 11 or so areas and how that compares to other residents nationally in both that subset and overall. There is not a place for these to be uploaded into to ERAS and your residency doesn't have to "release" them to anybody. I always got a copy of the report and when I was applying to fellowship some programs would email me and ask to see the reports. I scanned a copy into my computer and sent them one. I guess you don't technically have to send it to them, but if you don't they will probably assume you are hiding something.
There are definitely some anesthesia based pain fellowships that want to know your SAE scores. It's still an in-training exam like any other specialty. Scoring well compared to your peers matters for some programs, others don't care much about it. I was part of the last application year that wasn't through ERAS but I'm guessing it's now a standardized component of the application.
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Why don't they ask for our USMLEworld scores from med school while they're at it? They shouldn't be asking and there's a good reason why they shouldnt. It's not a reflection of reality...there are folks on call the night before the SAE. Are they having a fair comparison to their peers? A significant minority of people don't take the SAE seriously, and yet the significant majority pass the test.
The SAE is a self assessment as noted above, so there is no pass/fail. The test is also supposed to be proctored and timed, so comparing it to something like UWorld that you can do at home in your PJs is not a realistic comparison. Yes there are going to be unfair circumstances for some (usually PGY-2's) that can affect performance, but that is just the way it is in medicine sometimes. I tried to lobby for no resident to be on call the night before the exam with our attendings as a resident based on the fact that some fellowships actually look at the exam. I got shut down, but they at least allowed the on call resident to be excused from that mornings duties so they could at least take a nap before the test. This happens in other specialties as well and not just PM&R. I think I took the ABSITE as an intern with a fever of 101 after working like 12 days in a row, but that was the only day to take the test, so I did. I know other surgery residents that took it post call, and their call is way worse than any PM&R call for the most part. Surgery fellowships definately look at ABSITE, and some programs will even fire residents based on their performance. Again as I mentioned before, many programs don't ask for it, so it obviously is not super important at fellowships. Some will care though, and the people reading this thread need to realize that. If you don't want to take the test seriously and do poorly, that is the risk you took. If you don't want to do fellowship, nobody will care other than maybe your PD if you do poorly.
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Looking at the timeline for pain apps/SAE testing....looks like the SAE you take in Jan PGY 2 year will be score submitted (or given per request) for pain apps. Is this right? Won't it be challenging for a fresh pm&r resident to score well with only 6 months under their belt?
Your comparison is to people within your year, not across all years.
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