Rheumatology

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

zee620

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2013
Messages
12
Reaction score
0
Hi all,

I'm a MS3 who is freaking out about my impending residency specialty choice. Was just wondering if any current rheum fellows would be willing to chat with me about their decision to go into the field and how they're liking it. Also, how competitive are these fellowship spots? Job market?

My other two speciality considerations are neuro and pm&r. I have a love for the geriatric population and want to feel like I'm an expert in a smaller field (in whatever I decide to go into).

Thanks!

Members don't see this ad.
 
As you are likely aware, you will need to do 2-3 years of IM (2 yrs via the ABIM research track pathway with guaranteed rheum fellowship after IM if you have considerable research and want to continue research as part of your career). Most rheum fellowship programs are 2 yrs with the more academic ones being 3 yrs. Rheumatology is an intellectually challenging field (ask many IM residents which is the hardest section on the in-training exam). There is a wealth of new knowledge in the immunologic basis of rheumatologic diseases. You should scan the table of contents of Arthritis and Rheumatism to see if the pathophysiology behind the diseases interests you and to get a sense of how complex the immunology is. The therapeutic armamentarium has grown tremendously as well. When I started med school over a decade ago, the textbooks talked about steroids, gold and maybe methotrexate. Today, in addition to steroids and MTX, there are several more general immunosuppresive agents as well as all sorts of monoclonal antibody therapies (against TNF, B cell targets, T cell targets, IL 1, IL 6) and small molecule inhibitors targeting various aspects of the immune system.

As far as what practice is like, it may be hard to get a sense from an inpatient rotation (as is the case with most internal medicine and its subspecialties) because rheumatology (like the vast majority of IM and its subspecialties) is a primarily outpatient discipline. Unfortunately, medicine (the whole field) is undergoing a change where the hospital and its conglomerate system is becoming the primary site of medical care with physicians becoming employees... This is a separate discussion, but one to be cognizant of in the years ahead, not just for IM but click to any other specialty forum here and you will begin to understand the ramifications of this. But why do I mention it? I would invite you to do a web search with the phrase "arthritis and osteoporosis center" and click on the websites of some private practice rheum groups and you will see the range of services provided by rheumatologists in outpatient private practice that you might not have been aware of by seeing rheum from only an inpatient/hospital perspective. These include:
- Joint injections for diagnosis and therapeutic injections with steroids and / or viscosupplementation
- Doing musculoskeletal ultrasound for routine diagnostic purposes in patients suspected of having inflammatory arthritis as well as to follow disease progression and response to therapy (rheumatologists can interpret their own U/S findings after appropriate training)
- Ultrasound guided injections of joints (including hips) and also ultrasound guided injection of trigger points for interventional pain management of patients with fibromyalgia
- Infusion center services (like those provided by med oncologists) for the new biologic agents and systemic chemotherapeutic immunosuppressants
- DEXA scanning for osteoporosis (after all, your patients will be on chronic steroids and many will be post-menopausal... Rheumatologists can be certified to read their own DEXA scan results after specific training)
- in house X ray and lab services are offered by some rheum practices as well.

The MSK physical exam is one that allows you to make a diagnosis that localized to a fairly well defined locus that can then be confirmed by imaging if need be. There are a host of maneuvers that specifically isolate parts of the neuromusculoskeletal system to help you narrow down and pinpoint the diagnosis. So if you like still being able to use your exam skills in this age of fancy tests and imaging, rheum and other specialties using the NMSK exam are a good choice.

Below, I have put together some salary data (because every student/resident always wants to know). As you can see 50% of surveyed rheumatologists made > 240K. On average, group practice pays more than hospital employment (probably because of the ability to do more of the above listed services without being limited by hospital delineation of privilege policies).

Median salary: $240,250 (4.89 percent increase from 2012)* AMGA 2013 data
Hospital-employed salary: $201,000* Medscape 2013 data
Multispecialty group practice salary: $224,000* Medscape

Hope this helps somewhat. Good luck with your choice whatever you choose. Just be informed and stick with what you enjoy. What was popular and high paying 10 years ago will not necessarily be the case in the next 10 years.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Rheum definitely sounds like an awesome field. What are the hours like if anyone knows?
 
Members don't see this ad :)
GalenVesalius provided excellent info above. I endorse it all

Rheum definitely sounds like an awesome field. What are the hours like if anyone knows?

More than many other specialties, rheum offers flexibility in terms of work/life balance. There are few hospital consults (for many reasons, some of which GV touched on), and few emergencies (even fewer after-hours). Practice is 90%+ office-based and routine. Many rheumatologists are coming out and only working part-time or in a shared full-time position. In fact the ACR has some concerns about this as trainees are increasingly predominantly women, who practice part-time at a disproportionate rate. Combined with the aging and impending retirement of the rheumatology workforce overall, this will probably contribute to increasing future shortages of rheumatology, on top of an already-existing shortage (ask a local FP or internist how easy it is to get their patients into a rheumatologist--not very, in most places).

For you though, the bottom line is there will always be work for more rheumatologists, and the nature of the work allows you to set your own pace and schedule more than other fields. If you're an interventional cardiologist you can't really tell a STEMI patient to take a prednisone and see you in the office tomorrow. On the other hand if you're a rheumatologist and want to work like a dog for 80 hours a week seeing 40 patients every day and doing hospital consults to boot, there will be a never-ending supply of patients to keep you busy.

In the bigger picture, picking a field based on the hours is not wise. Somebody who truly loves dropping Swans at 2AM in crashing patients would be miserable seeing OA patients from 9-4:30 in the office, and vice versa. I'm certainly happier in the office than in the ICU!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
This is amazingly thorough. Lucky those who have you as their mentor :)
As you are likely aware, you will need to do 2-3 years of IM (2 yrs via the ABIM research track pathway with guaranteed rheum fellowship after IM if you have considerable research and want to continue research as part of your career). Most rheum fellowship programs are 2 yrs with the more academic ones being 3 yrs. Rheumatology is an intellectually challenging field (ask many IM residents which is the hardest section on the in-training exam). There is a wealth of new knowledge in the immunologic basis of rheumatologic diseases. You should scan the table of contents of Arthritis and Rheumatism to see if the pathophysiology behind the diseases interests you and to get a sense of how complex the immunology is. The therapeutic armamentarium has grown tremendously as well. When I started med school over a decade ago, the textbooks talked about steroids, gold and maybe methotrexate. Today, in addition to steroids and MTX, there are several more general immunosuppresive agents as well as all sorts of monoclonal antibody therapies (against TNF, B cell targets, T cell targets, IL 1, IL 6) and small molecule inhibitors targeting various aspects of the immune system.

As far as what practice is like, it may be hard to get a sense from an inpatient rotation (as is the case with most internal medicine and its subspecialties) because rheumatology (like the vast majority of IM and its subspecialties) is a primarily outpatient discipline. Unfortunately, medicine (the whole field) is undergoing a change where the hospital and its conglomerate system is becoming the primary site of medical care with physicians becoming employees... This is a separate discussion, but one to be cognizant of in the years ahead, not just for IM but click to any other specialty forum here and you will begin to understand the ramifications of this. But why do I mention it? I would invite you to do a web search with the phrase "arthritis and osteoporosis center" and click on the websites of some private practice rheum groups and you will see the range of services provided by rheumatologists in outpatient private practice that you might not have been aware of by seeing rheum from only an inpatient/hospital perspective. These include:
- Joint injections for diagnosis and therapeutic injections with steroids and / or viscosupplementation
- Doing musculoskeletal ultrasound for routine diagnostic purposes in patients suspected of having inflammatory arthritis as well as to follow disease progression and response to therapy (rheumatologists can interpret their own U/S findings after appropriate training)
- Ultrasound guided injections of joints (including hips) and also ultrasound guided injection of trigger points for interventional pain management of patients with fibromyalgia
- Infusion center services (like those provided by med oncologists) for the new biologic agents and systemic chemotherapeutic immunosuppressants
- DEXA scanning for osteoporosis (after all, your patients will be on chronic steroids and many will be post-menopausal... Rheumatologists can be certified to read their own DEXA scan results after specific training)
- in house X ray and lab services are offered by some rheum practices as well.

The MSK physical exam is one that allows you to make a diagnosis that localized to a fairly well defined locus that can then be confirmed by imaging if need be. There are a host of maneuvers that specifically isolate parts of the neuromusculoskeletal system to help you narrow down and pinpoint the diagnosis. So if you like still being able to use your exam skills in this age of fancy tests and imaging, rheum and other specialties using the NMSK exam are a good choice.

Below, I have put together some salary data (because every student/resident always wants to know). As you can see 50% of surveyed rheumatologists made > 240K. On average, group practice pays more than hospital employment (probably because of the ability to do more of the above listed services without being limited by hospital delineation of privilege policies).

Median salary: $240,250 (4.89 percent increase from 2012)* AMGA 2013 data
Hospital-employed salary: $201,000* Medscape 2013 data
Multispecialty group practice salary: $224,000* Medscape

Hope this helps somewhat. Good luck with your choice whatever you choose. Just be informed and stick with what you enjoy. What was popular and high paying 10 years ago will not necessarily be the case in the next 10 years.
an
 
What is the workload like in fellowship? Mix of inpatient and outpatient?
 
Top