Recommended schools other than the big 4

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Great post Del Caribe!! Apply to all schools in tiers I-IV. That is 7 caribbean schools, All have had resident placements over 8 years +. But again if you can get into a DO schools take it...

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Great post Del Caribe!! Apply to all schools in tiers I-IV. That is 7 caribbean schools, All have had resident placements over 8 years +. But again if you can get into a DO schools take it...

That won't be an option for the OP in this case. The OP has already failed out of a big 4 Caribbean school, so its extremely unlikely that any DO school would take him/her.
 
Something about this story doesn't make sense.

Taking the MCAT not once, twice, but 5 times? I've never heard of that. I'm to understand OP sat for this excruciating test 5 times and was unable to get a score competitive for the Top 4?

Alright, so OP is remarkably determined. After taking the MCAT 5 times, there must be some burning rage in him ready to demolish the coursework and prove that being a physician is his calling.
Then fails a class?

I'm inclined to think this story just isn't true. It's either entirely fabricated or their is a huge chunk missing.
 
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It's either entirely fabricated or their is a huge chunk missing.

It doesn't matter.

People post on anonymous internet forums for a variety of reasons and personal motivations. Some people want to instigate. Some people want to troll. Some people need to "catfish" for the attention. So, whether the motivations of the poster are on the up-and-up or not, the subsequent posts stand for themselves as their own entity. That's what's most important - not the veracity of the OP's story. Others will read it and may benefit from it and/or learn something. And, that is what is paramount.

So, whether or not the OP is actually only playing some game (or whatever else may be their motivation), the discussion that ensues as a result supersedes their individual narcissistic motivations. (And, I use "narcissistic" in the kindest and broadest sense.)

In any regard, premedstud101 has been polite. The only time I will personally remove myself from a thread is when it becomes obvious that the OP is either (1) clearly trolling, (2) advertising, or (3) only interested in a flame war. Life is too short to get wrapped-up that nonsense, no? I've been posting on internet forums for over 20 years (starting with Usenet newsgroups, for those of you who even know what that is) and long ago satisfied any urges to engage strangers in (often pointless) fights only in order to "prove" something to other strangers.

There's a lot of good advice on this thread. Not only for premedstud101 but for others as well. Hopefully he/she is legit, but it doesn't matter. Others will benefit (hopefully) as well.

-Skip
 
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There has been some really good advice on this thread, and I completely agree with Skip that nothing in medicine is guaranteed smooth sailing. You may get into a medical school, but there's no guarantee that you'll pass. You may pass medical school and get an MD degree, but there's no guarantee that you'll get into residency. You may get into residency, but there's no guarantee you'll finish it. There are certainly residents who get fired. Even once you finish residency, there's no guarantee that you'll maintain your state license, board (re)certifications, avoid getting sued, etc, etc, etc. It doesn't get any easier each step along the way either and having good discipline, working hard, and working smart is the MINIMUM expected requirement for you to be successful. I think we've more than bombarded you with enough advice. That being said, I'll do my best to answer your question about the "recommended schools" other than the big four. First, I don't recommend any Caribbean medical school outside the big four, but if you do choose to reapply to other schools beyond the big four, I believe there are definitely ways to tier medical schools in the Caribbean according to their levels of accreditation, approval, and recognition in the United States. Here are the criteria in which I am using to tier schools:

1. Is the school accredited?
To be accredited means that a recognized accrediting body has visited and evaluated the medical school and found that the quality of the education, administration, and facility meet the standards of accreditation. Having a government charter and being listed in a medical school directory (i.e. FAIMER IMED, WHO Avicenna, WDOMS) is not the same as being accredited.

2. Is the school’s accreditation NCFMEA approved?
To be NCFMEA-approved means that the accrediting body that accredited the medical school has been deemed by the US Department of Education’s National Committee on Foreign Medical Education and Accreditation to have accreditation standards on par with LCME, which accredits US and Canadian medical schools.

3. Is the school New York approved?
To be New York approved means that the medical school has been visited and reviewed by the New York State Education Department and has met the state’s standards needed to allow students of the school to complete more than 12 weeks of clinical rotations and graduates to enter residency in New York State.

4. Is the school California approved?
To be California approved means that the medical school has been visited and reviewed by the Medical Board of California and has met the state’s standards needed to allow students of the school to complete clinical rotations and graduates to enter residency and obtain medical licenses in California, Alaska, Arkansas, Colorado, Idaho, Indiana, New Mexico, Oregon, Tennessee, Vermont, and other states that may follow California’s standards. Schools can also be disapproved by California, further limiting their graduates from practicing in a few other states like North Dakota and Vermont.

5. Can the school’s graduates be licensed in all 50 States?
Graduates are allowed to obtain license to practice medicine in all 50 states if their school is approved by California (and therefore also Alaska, Arkansas, Colorado, Idaho, Indiana, New Mexico, Oregon, Tennessee, Vermont) as well as Kansas (school needs to be over 15 years old). Otherwise, graduates can practice in the 30+ states that do not require the medical school to have state approval.

6. Is the school eligible to offer Title IV federal student loans?
To be eligible means that the medical school satisfies the many stringent criteria set forth by the US Department of Education to be eligible to offer their US students US federal financial aid.

7. Is the school non-distance learning?
Medical students who go to schools where a large portion of the Basic Science and/or Clinical Science curriculum is given via the internet, or distance-learning, are limited from getting licensed and practicing medicine in a large number of states.

If we consider all of these criteria, here is how all the offshore medical schools in the Caribbean would tier:

Tier 1: Accredited, NCFMEA, NY, CA, 5o States, Title IV
  • American University of the Caribbean (AUC)
  • Ross University
  • Saba University
  • St. George’s University (SGU)
Tier 2: Accredited, NCFMEA, NY, CA
  • American University of Antigua (AUA)
Tier 3: Accredited, NCFMEA, NY
  • Medical University of the Americas (MUA)
Tier 4: Accredited, NCFMEA, NY, CA Disapproved
  • St. Matthews University (SMU)
Tier 5: Accredited
  • All American Institute of Medical Sciences(AAIMS)
  • American International Medical University (AIMU)
  • College of Medicine and Health Sciences St. Lucia (COMHSSL)
  • Spartan Health Sciences University
  • St. James School of Medicine (SJSM)
  • Trinity School of Medicine (TSOM)
  • University of Health Sciences Antigua (UHSA)
  • University of Medicine and Health Sciences (UMHS)
  • Windsor University
  • Xavier University
Tier 6: Not Accredited
  • All Saints University
  • American University St. Vincent (AUS)
  • American University of Barbados (AUB)
  • Atlantic University (AUSOM)
  • Aureus University
  • Avalon University
  • Caribbean Medical University (CMU)
  • International American University (IAU)
  • University of Sint Eustatius (USESOM)
  • St. Helen University (SHU)
  • St. Martinus University
Tier 7: Distance Learning
  • International University of Health Sciences (IUHS)
  • University of Science, Arts, and Technology (USAT)
If you are looking into applying to a Caribbean medical school, not just for premedstud101, but for anyone, I'd first apply to the Tier 1 schools (big 4), then if this doesn't work, consider tier 2, then tier 3, etc. Of course, please understand the risk of doing so before deciding to go to the schools in the lower tiers. We can give you a lot of advice from our own experiences on this forum, but ultimately you'll have to make the choice.

Best of luck!

This is excellent. Well done! Perhaps we can collate some of the more recent and better info into one thread and ask the mods to make it a sticky?

-Skip
 
What other schools are recommended other than the big 4? I've looked at St. Matthews, AUA, UMHS, and St. James School of Medicine and they all seem decent. Please advice. Thanks!

Great posts in this thread. Many were insightful and informative. Consider IUHS in your situation. Send me a private message and I'll provide my experiences. It is true that the Basic Medical Sciences are distance learning. You need not go to the islands to attend. IUHS has graduates in 22 states and claims an 87% passage rate on the Step 1 exam overall and a 90% pass rate on the last exam. I do know one student who was in the same boar that you are in. He failed one class by an few points. While he could go back and repeat a term the family separation from his wife and kids was a big consideration. IUHS accepted him. (IUHS doesn't accept everyone). and he is doing well.
 
You need to accept the fact that you will not be a physician. I am sorry to be blunt, but you need to cut your losses.

How do you know? Why so negative? This forum is supposed to encourage and provide solutions.
 
How do you know? Why so negative? This forum is supposed to encourage and provide solutions.


No it is not. This forum is SUPPOSED to provide honest discourse. I am not being negative, I am being honest. There is no silver lining to this story. Going to a non-big 4 School after failing out of a different carib school is not something you can bounce back from.

You can provide all the false hope you want. I will never encourage someone to put themselves through more debt and time only to find out that it was a dead-end road the entire time.
 
Great posts in this thread. Many were insightful and informative. Consider IUHS in your situation. Send me a private message and I'll provide my experiences. It is true that the Basic Medical Sciences are distance learning. You need not go to the islands to attend. IUHS has graduates in 22 states and claims an 87% passage rate on the Step 1 exam overall and a 90% pass rate on the last exam. I do know one student who was in the same boar that you are in. He failed one class by an few points. While he could go back and repeat a term the family separation from his wife and kids was a big consideration. IUHS accepted him. (IUHS doesn't accept everyone). and he is doing well.

You do if you actually want to practice medicine, at least in Indiana.

Approved/Disapproved Foreign Medical Schools

INDIANA'S DISAPPROVED FOREIGN MEDICAL SCHOOLS
...
International University of Health Sciences (IUHS) as of 12/05/2002 (Board reaffirmed denial at their 8/23/2012 meeting partially due to distant learning (computer classes)).

http://www.in.gov/pla/2799.htm

-Skip
 
You do if you actually want to practice medicine, at least in Indiana.



http://www.in.gov/pla/2799.htm

-Skip

I agree that IUS is not for everyone. By definition if 22 states have licensed graduates thus far, 28 have not. As more graduates move through the pipeline it is likely that more states will accept the graduates. You make a valid point. In doing your own research you must consider where you intend to practice and make sure that you fulfill all of the requirements in the jurisdiction where you intend to practice. If your intended school is not approved then look elsewhere for your education.
 
You sure about that?

I don't have a crystal ball so nothing is certain in life. I do know that the school administration is actively involved in licensing issues on behalf of students. I personally believe that once the licensing bodies see the curriculum, the lectures, the course requirements, etc. they will be receptive to approving IUHS. The problem seems to me to be the perception that taking a class presented on the internet is somehow inferior to sitting in a classroom and listening to a professor. I actually attended a brick and mortar school for a year and my opinion is that the IUHS coursework is every bit as challenging as I had then. When I attended the traditional school, a large number of my classmates skipped the live lecture and watched the taped version a day later. Their grades were at least as good as mine. At IUHS, we don't just watch live lectures through the internet. We have required mentor time with a physician each month (real clinical experience), computer simulated patients to diagnose and treat plus USMLE type questions (literary thousands of them over the two years of Basic Medical Science). We have on-line study groups, discussions with the Dean and advisors. It is not "correspondence school."
 
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Implying that they have not seen IUHS curriculum etc before?
No. I am not implying that the licensing bodies had not seen the curriculum in the past. I think that when many people first hear that the lectures are presented on the internet and don't inquire into any more detail that this they are misinformed or not informed enough. The IUHS curriculum has changed over the years and so has the method of presentation. If you read posts of 10 years ago the presentations have been described as "podcasts." Now the lectures are live with interaction with the students. My point is that the presentation format in the past that wasn't acceptable in some states may now be acceptable. So, licensing bodies in the past may well have said no and in the future may say yes due to the evolution of the program and the evolution of society itself.
 
No. I am not implying that the licensing bodies had not seen the curriculum in the past. I think that when many people first hear that the lectures are presented on the internet and don't inquire into any more detail that this they are misinformed or not informed enough. The IUHS curriculum has changed over the years and so has the method of presentation. If you read posts of 10 years ago the presentations have been described as "podcasts." Now the lectures are live with interaction with the students. My point is that the presentation format in the past that wasn't acceptable in some states may now be acceptable. So, licensing bodies in the past may well have said no and in the future may say yes due to the evolution of the program and the evolution of society itself.

So you're saying the licensing bodies that have decided not to approve IUHS simply heard that lectures are presented online and did not inquire into any more detail, and so they are misinformed or not sufficiently informed?
 
So you're saying the licensing bodies that have decided not to approve IUHS simply heard that lectures are presented online and did not inquire into any more detail, and so they are misinformed or not sufficiently informed?
Not what I said.
 
I don't have a crystal ball so nothing is certain in life. I do know that the school administration is actively involved in licensing issues on behalf of students. I personally believe that once the licensing bodies see the curriculum, the lectures, the course requirements, etc. they will be receptive to approving IUHS. The problem seems to me to be the perception that taking a class presented on the internet is somehow inferior to sitting in a classroom and listening to a professor. I actually attended a brick and mortar school for a year and my opinion is that the IUHS coursework is every bit as challenging as I had then. When I attended the traditional school, a large number of my classmates skipped the live lecture and watched the taped version a day later. Their grades were at least as good as mine. At IUHS, we don't just watch live lectures through the internet. We have required mentor time with a physician each month (real clinical experience), computer simulated patients to diagnose and treat plus USMLE type questions (literary thousands of them over the two years of Basic Medical Science). We have on-line study groups, discussions with the Dean and advisors. It is not "correspondence school."

This may be all fine and dandy... and even true.

But, you have to understand (and I hope you, as a student, do) that you will never be granted a medical license in a state that currently does not recognize their degree until you repeat the deficient coursework which, in this case, may be the entire basic sciences program and at a school/institution that the particular state in question recognizes.

In other words, you're not going to be "grandfathered" in someday. I hope you understand that. This is not the way the regulatory portion of licensing works at state medical boards.

-Skip
 
This may be all fine and dandy... and even true.

But, you have to understand (and I hope you, as a student, do) that you will never be granted a medical license in a state that currently does not recognize their degree until you repeat the deficient coursework which, in this case, may be the entire basic sciences program and at a school/institution that the particular state in question recognizes.

In other words, you're not going to be "grandfathered" in someday. I hope you understand that. This is not the way the regulatory portion of licensing works at state medical boards.

-Skip
Skip, I agree with you. I live in and intend to practice in Georgia. Georgia has licensed IUHS graduates. I doubt that I will ever move to Indiana.
 
Skip, I agree with you. I live in and intend to practice in Georgia. Georgia has licensed IUHS graduates. I doubt that I will ever move to Indiana.

"Doubt" is a very interesting word. It is most certainly not a definitive descriptor. And, one never knows where the wind may blow you...

Plan accordingly. That's really the only principle at the root of everything I've ever said on this forum.

-Skip
 
There has been some really good advice on this thread, and I completely agree with Skip that nothing in medicine is guaranteed smooth sailing. You may get into a medical school, but there's no guarantee that you'll pass. You may pass medical school and get an MD degree, but there's no guarantee that you'll get into residency. You may get into residency, but there's no guarantee you'll finish it. There are certainly residents who get fired. Even once you finish residency, there's no guarantee that you'll maintain your state license, board (re)certifications, avoid getting sued, etc, etc, etc. It doesn't get any easier each step along the way either and having good discipline, working hard, and working smart is the MINIMUM expected requirement for you to be successful. I think we've more than bombarded you with enough advice. That being said, I'll do my best to answer your question about the "recommended schools" other than the big four. First, I don't recommend any Caribbean medical school outside the big four, but if you do choose to reapply to other schools beyond the big four, I believe there are definitely ways to tier medical schools in the Caribbean according to their levels of accreditation, approval, and recognition in the United States. Here are the criteria in which I am using to tier schools:

1. Is the school accredited?
To be accredited means that a recognized accrediting body has visited and evaluated the medical school and found that the quality of the education, administration, and facility meet the standards of accreditation. Having a government charter and being listed in a medical school directory (i.e. FAIMER IMED, WHO Avicenna, WDOMS) is not the same as being accredited.

2. Is the school’s accreditation NCFMEA approved?
To be NCFMEA-approved means that the accrediting body that accredited the medical school has been deemed by the US Department of Education’s National Committee on Foreign Medical Education and Accreditation to have accreditation standards on par with LCME, which accredits US and Canadian medical schools.

3. Is the school New York approved?
To be New York approved means that the medical school has been visited and reviewed by the New York State Education Department and has met the state’s standards needed to allow students of the school to complete more than 12 weeks of clinical rotations and graduates to enter residency in New York State.

4. Is the school California approved?
To be California approved means that the medical school has been visited and reviewed by the Medical Board of California and has met the state’s standards needed to allow students of the school to complete clinical rotations and graduates to enter residency and obtain medical licenses in California, Alaska, Arkansas, Colorado, Idaho, Indiana, New Mexico, Oregon, Tennessee, Vermont, and other states that may follow California’s standards. Schools can also be disapproved by California, further limiting their graduates from practicing in a few other states like North Dakota and Vermont.

5. Can the school’s graduates be licensed in all 50 States?
Graduates are allowed to obtain license to practice medicine in all 50 states if their school is approved by California (and therefore also Alaska, Arkansas, Colorado, Idaho, Indiana, New Mexico, Oregon, Tennessee, Vermont) as well as Kansas (school needs to be over 15 years old). Otherwise, graduates can practice in the 30+ states that do not require the medical school to have state approval.

6. Is the school eligible to offer Title IV federal student loans?
To be eligible means that the medical school satisfies the many stringent criteria set forth by the US Department of Education to be eligible to offer their US students US federal financial aid.

7. Is the school non-distance learning?
Medical students who go to schools where a large portion of the Basic Science and/or Clinical Science curriculum is given via the internet, or distance-learning, are limited from getting licensed and practicing medicine in a large number of states.

If we consider all of these criteria, here is how all the offshore medical schools in the Caribbean would tier:

Disclaimer: This is personal research and may be subject to mistakes. Not all schools may be listed.

Tier 1: Accredited, NCFMEA, NY, CA, 5o States, Title IV
  • American University of the Caribbean (AUC)
  • Ross University
  • Saba University
  • St. George’s University (SGU)
Tier 2: Accredited, NCFMEA, NY, CA
  • American University of Antigua (AUA)
Tier 3: Accredited, NCFMEA, NY
  • Medical University of the Americas (MUA)
Tier 4: Accredited, NCFMEA, NY, CA Disapproved
  • St. Matthews University (SMU)
Tier 5: Accredited
  • All American Institute of Medical Sciences(AAIMS)
  • American International Medical University (AIMU)
  • American University of Barbados (AUB)
  • American University of St. Vincent (AUS)
  • Atlantic University (AUSOM)
  • College of Medicine and Health Sciences St. Lucia (COMHSSL)
  • International American University (IAU)
  • Spartan Health Sciences University
  • St. James School of Medicine (SJSM)
  • Trinity School of Medicine (TSOM)
  • University of Health Sciences Antigua (UHSA)
  • University of Medicine and Health Sciences (UMHS)
  • Windsor University
  • Xavier University
Tier 6. Not Subject to Accreditation, According to WHO/AVICENNA
  • Aureus University
  • Avalon University
  • Caribbean Medical University (CMU)
Tier 7: Distance Learning
  • International University of Health Sciences (IUHS)
  • University of Science, Arts, and Technology (USAT)
If you are looking into applying to a Caribbean medical school, not just for premedstud101, but for anyone, I'd first apply to the Tier 1 schools (big 4), then if this doesn't work, consider tier 2, then tier 3, etc. Of course, please understand the risk of doing so before deciding to go to the schools in the lower tiers. We can give you a lot of advice from our own experiences on this forum, but ultimately you'll have to make the choice.

Best of luck!

AUA is now approved by CA, NY, & FL. And as far as I found out, the only states that won't license a graduate of a CA disapproved school are California, Alaska, Vermont, and North Dakota. All other states are case-by-case basis.
 
Fair enough. I think we've beaten the dead horse on this particular avenue of your conundrum.



Impossible. You will never get licensed in those states unless you repeat course work that was deemed "deficient" by those medical boards.

You can look at the individual states disapproved lists. These are found on their board of medicine's websites for each state. Some of the state's recognize CA's list.

http://www.mbc.ca.gov/Applicants/Medical_Schools/Schools_Disapproved.aspx

There's no immediate comprehensive list of all schools (that I'm aware of) that are "banned" per state. And, there is always a potential that these can change at any time when any of those boards meet. Usually the individual schools themselves will have this information, but are not always necessarily forthcoming or want to advertise this. That is another red flag in my opinion.

-Skip

I researched the matter myself recently. I found this book by AMA that explains exactly what I was looking for. I contacted the medical boards directly whenever I had questions not answered in this book and found out some very good information. Here's a link to the book: https://commerce.ama-assn.org/store/catalog/productDetail.jsp?product_id=prod2420007&navAction=push

I'll post some of my findings here for the benefit of others. Please note that this info is based on my own understanding and you may use it at your own risk. It is always advisable for you to research the information yourself to confirm before using it.

- There are 8 states that require only ECGME hospital rotations: California, Florida, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Texas, and Virginia

o Florida, Illinois, Michigan, New Jersey, and Texas have specific requirements for rotations related to Greenbook hospitals.

- In states such as Maryland, may allow licensure without a residency if the applicant has done something good for medical science such as research or an invention.

- Being a member of faculty in a medical school allows for a limited license. Some states (Iowa) count it for a limited licence experience as GME

o Montana will give a publisher of peer-reviewed articles a limited license.

- States that follow CA list:

o Alaska,

o Georgia (will accept disapproved schools but requires 3 years of GME rather than 1 year with an approved school),

o Indiana according ot AMA but the board says they follow FAIMER's list

o New Mexico, if youattend a disapproved school, will need 3 years of medical practice not including rotations and residency. License can only be given by endorsement evaluation by AACRAO. org, American Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers, who assesses the schools that are not approved or disapproved and if the outcome if favorable you MAY be granted a license.

o North Dakota, does not license a graduate of a disapproved school or endorse it from another state. If attended a disapproved school then say goodbye to licensure in this state.

o Colorado, will accept disapproved but requires documentation of rotations and residency training to assess it’s quality.

o Vermont, does not license a graduate of a disapproved school or endorse it from another state.

- States that maintain own list of approved/disapproved schools:

o Alabama,

o Arkansas,

o California,

o Kansas,

o Montana,

o Tennessee,

o Texas, requires further documentation and paperwork but licensure is possible.

o Idaho & Kansas needs the school to be at least 15 years old (should not be disapproved for Kansas).

One more thing, I want to be a doctor because I wanted to be one for so long that I really can't see myself doing anything else. If I don't go through this and give it an honest try then I know for sure that I'll regret it for the rest of my life. I like the science behind it, the human interaction, the ability to help others, and many other things, genuinely. I honestly enjoy volunteering. I know I can do all of this with a degree such as nursing but I want to be making the decisions and know why they were taken. I can go on and on about this but it will sound like the reasons why any student wanted to be a physician. That's why I thought stating this here will be pointless.
 
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Wow tough spot, I feel for the op. It comes across that you will do anything to become a physician and I admire that.

A few random question to the op;

If you do decided to go back to the Caribbean how do you think you will fare on Step 1 (I know, so many factors, but a realistic estimate).

Take into account the amount of work, effort and time you put into your MS class(es) that you were not successful at, as well as your standardized test taking ability (MCAT) as well as all the other factors that would be to numerous to list, how do you realistically see yourself scoring?

Also if you don't mind sharing, could you elaborate on some of the information you have given us? Perhaps the scores of your mcat (or rough scores), which class/classes you were not able to succeed at. Were the any other circumstances that could be rectified at a new school to ensure success?

I think that if I work hard enough, I can do well on the USMLE. I did very well on the physical sciences, biological sciences, and writing sample portions of the MCAT but kept on doing poorly in verbal reasoning. SO i can standardized tests fine. I have not taken the USMLE so I can't give an estimate. I failed Neurosciences, I have zero background in that. What can be rectified is my study technique. I need to stop trying ot memorize every detail and study smart and fast. I used to keep on reading the same subject even when I get bored with it so I spend outs being not productive.
 
I know someone kicked out of a school that managed to match. It's rare.

Don't make things even worse by choosing the wrong school. I wouldn't pick any school that didn't have New York or title IV lending.

Seems odd (to me) being kicked out with no shot at remediation.

Do some serious soul searching before continuing. Simply wanting to be a doctor isn't going to make all that debt go away. In the long term, you might be happier cutting your losses before racking up more debt than a normal job can pay off. Private student loans have really high interest rates.
 
I think that if I work hard enough, I can do well on the USMLE. I did very well on the physical sciences, biological sciences, and writing sample portions of the MCAT but kept on doing poorly in verbal reasoning. SO i can standardized tests fine. I have not taken the USMLE so I can't give an estimate. I failed Neurosciences, I have zero background in that. What can be rectified is my study technique. I need to stop trying ot memorize every detail and study smart and fast. I used to keep on reading the same subject even when I get bored with it so I spend outs being not productive.


I think that anyone who needed 5 MCAT attempts to get into a Caribbean medical school and then failed out probably shouldn't say "i can standardized test fine".

You are going to ignore all of this advice and go to St Matthews anyway, so good luck. Just know that 4 years from now when you are broke and without a residency this thread will still be here for you.
 
I think that anyone who needed 5 MCAT attempts to get into a Caribbean medical school and then failed out probably shouldn't say "i can standardized test fine".

You are going to ignore all of this advice and go to St Matthews anyway, so good luck. Just know that 4 years from now when you are broke and without a residency this thread will still be here for you.

First of all, I did well on all sections except VR from the first try and all other tries. I repeated the test just to try and get a better mark at Verbal reasoning. I don't know why you are so negative and trying to make as many people as possible quit (I saw that you are doing the same thing to quite a few other posters). I know you'll say that you are just giving advice but you are the most pessimistic of all the people that gave advice here. I think maybe you should stop giving negative advice and try to HELP people not telling them they are dumb pieces of crap and insisting on encouraging them to quit. You don't know nothing about me or anyone on this forum so you can't really assess the situation properly enough to know who's going to make it and who isn't. My school was cruel to me, they did the unthinkable to me without any regard to any of my attempts to talk to them. It's nothing personal but it was the fact that they are now just a business and I was only a number to them. They want to keep their stats up, that's it.
 
. My school was cruel to me, they did the unthinkable to me without any regard to any of my attempts to talk to them. It's nothing personal but it was the fact that they are now just a business and I was only a number to them. They want to keep their stats up, that's it.

Your school wasn't cruel to you. It gave you a chance to achieve your dream of becoming a physician, and you blew that chance. Of course the school is a business. Every Caribbean school, or, for that matter, every medical school, is a business. They're all for-profit. But the more reputable ones, like the big 4, will actually try to help you succeed. When I was at SGU, they offered review sessions, tutoring, and counseling on study skills. I think if you do want to succeed in the future, you need to stop thinking that other people are the problem. The real problem is you.
 
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You are totally right, other than me, the MCAT, your previous medical school, and sdn...the REST of the medical world will be completely fair and open minded to your situation.



L.....O......L
 
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At this point, it really doesn't matter which school you choose, as your chances at securing residency are significantly diminished at all of them. I would just say **** it and choose the cheapest one.
 
Is going abroad an option for you OP? Apparently if you can somehow clear step 1 and step 2 (down the road), you can write the NZREX exam in New Zealand.
I'm not sure about the exact details, but perhaps this could be an option.
 
Keep it professional
ChrisGriffin and jonnythan, Go to hell. I hope that you find yourselves in life situations worse than mine, I really do, just so you learn to be kind to people in trouble. I think that you have deep psychological issues that makes you mean to people, maybe were bullied? Anyway, I'm done tolerating you. If you have any humanity or dignity left in you, you'd stop posting replies to this thread.

Top Gun, my school gave plenty of people in my situation second chances, but not me so I think that yea they WERE cruel to me. Maybe they were in a bad mood? didn't have the time? for me, after 3 months of emailing and calling, I have a strong feeling that they never bothered to read my appeal letter anyway, maybe because they are too lazy to reopen the case, who knows. I think that's just not fair.

GunnarBronson and torontopharm, I'll look into your suggestions. Thanks for passing by.
 
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ChrisGriffin and jonnythan, Go to hell. I hope that you find yourselves in life situations worse than mine, I really do, just so you learn to be kind to people in trouble. I think that you have deep psychological issues that makes you mean to people, maybe were bullied? Anyway, I'm done tolerating you. If you have any humanity or dignity left in you, you'd stop posting replies to this thread.

This is pretty much exactly the type of reaction and attitude that have gotten you to the point where you now find yourself.

Think about that for a minute.
 
this is great info !! Thank you De lCaribe
:thumbup::thumbup:



There has been some really good advice on this thread, and I completely agree with Skip that nothing in medicine is guaranteed smooth sailing. You may get into a medical school, but there's no guarantee that you'll pass. You may pass medical school and get an MD degree, but there's no guarantee that you'll get into residency. You may get into residency, but there's no guarantee you'll finish it. There are certainly residents who get fired. Even once you finish residency, there's no guarantee that you'll maintain your state license, board (re)certifications, avoid getting sued, etc, etc, etc. It doesn't get any easier each step along the way either and having good discipline, working hard, and working smart is the MINIMUM expected requirement for you to be successful. I think we've more than bombarded you with enough advice. That being said, I'll do my best to answer your question about the "recommended schools" other than the big four. First, I don't recommend any Caribbean medical school outside the big four, but if you do choose to reapply to other schools beyond the big four, I believe there are definitely ways to tier medical schools in the Caribbean according to their levels of accreditation, approval, and recognition in the United States. Here are the criteria in which I am using to tier schools:

1. Is the school accredited?
To be accredited means that a recognized accrediting body has visited and evaluated the medical school and found that the quality of the education, administration, and facility meet the standards of accreditation. Having a government charter and being listed in a medical school directory (i.e. FAIMER IMED, WHO Avicenna, WDOMS) is not the same as being accredited.

2. Is the school’s accreditation NCFMEA approved?
To be NCFMEA-approved means that the accrediting body that accredited the medical school has been deemed by the US Department of Education’s National Committee on Foreign Medical Education and Accreditation to have accreditation standards on par with LCME, which accredits US and Canadian medical schools.

3. Is the school New York approved?
To be New York approved means that the medical school has been visited and reviewed by the New York State Education Department and has met the state’s standards needed to allow students of the school to complete more than 12 weeks of clinical rotations and graduates to enter residency in New York State.

4. Is the school California approved?
To be California approved means that the medical school has been visited and reviewed by the Medical Board of California and has met the state’s standards needed to allow students of the school to complete clinical rotations and graduates to enter residency and obtain medical licenses in California, Alaska, Arkansas, Colorado, Idaho, Indiana, New Mexico, Oregon, Tennessee, Vermont, and other states that may follow California’s standards. Schools can also be disapproved by California, further limiting their graduates from practicing in a few other states like North Dakota and Vermont.

5. Can the school’s graduates be licensed in all 50 States?
Graduates are allowed to obtain license to practice medicine in all 50 states if their school is approved by California (and therefore also Alaska, Arkansas, Colorado, Idaho, Indiana, New Mexico, Oregon, Tennessee, Vermont) as well as Kansas (school needs to be over 15 years old). Otherwise, graduates can practice in the 30+ states that do not require the medical school to have state approval.

6. Is the school eligible to offer Title IV federal student loans?
To be eligible means that the medical school satisfies the many stringent criteria set forth by the US Department of Education to be eligible to offer their US students US federal financial aid.

7. Is the school non-distance learning?
Medical students who go to schools where a large portion of the Basic Science and/or Clinical Science curriculum is given via the internet, or distance-learning, are limited from getting licensed and practicing medicine in a large number of states.

If we consider all of these criteria, here is how all the offshore medical schools in the Caribbean would tier:

Disclaimer: This is personal research and may be subject to mistakes. Not all schools may be listed.

Tier 1: Accredited, NCFMEA, NY, CA, 5o States, Title IV
  • American University of the Caribbean (AUC)
  • Ross University
  • Saba University
  • St. George’s University (SGU)
Tier 2: Accredited, NCFMEA, NY, CA
  • American University of Antigua (AUA)
Tier 3: Accredited, NCFMEA, NY
  • Medical University of the Americas (MUA)
Tier 4: Accredited, NCFMEA, NY, CA Disapproved
  • St. Matthews University (SMU)
Tier 5: Accredited
  • All American Institute of Medical Sciences(AAIMS)
  • American International Medical University (AIMU)
  • American University of Barbados (AUB)
  • American University of St. Vincent (AUS)
  • Atlantic University (AUSOM)
  • College of Medicine and Health Sciences St. Lucia (COMHSSL)
  • International American University (IAU)
  • Spartan Health Sciences University
  • St. James School of Medicine (SJSM)
  • Trinity School of Medicine (TSOM)
  • University of Health Sciences Antigua (UHSA)
  • University of Medicine and Health Sciences (UMHS)
  • Windsor University
  • Xavier University
Tier 6. Not Subject to Accreditation, According to WHO/AVICENNA
  • Aureus University
  • Avalon University
  • Caribbean Medical University (CMU)
Tier 7: Distance Learning
  • International University of Health Sciences (IUHS)
  • University of Science, Arts, and Technology (USAT)
If you are looking into applying to a Caribbean medical school, not just for premedstud101, but for anyone, I'd first apply to the Tier 1 schools (big 4), then if this doesn't work, consider tier 2, then tier 3, etc. Of course, please understand the risk of doing so before deciding to go to the schools in the lower tiers. We can give you a lot of advice from our own experiences on this forum, but ultimately you'll have to make the choice.

Best of luck!
 
this is great research and info as well !! Thanks !! :thumbup::thumbup:

@premedstud101 : I am sorry to hear about your situation. I agree with others above that you should try to get instated at your original institution. Your situation must have been special that they did give 2nd chances to other failed students but not you. It might be that there was some big misunderstanding that they thought that you did not care that you did not even appeal (bc the appeal letter was lost ??) I think you should try every way you can to clear all misunderstanding IN PERSON with them NOW.

So, if I were you, I would fly out again to the Caribbean and make an appointment to talk to Student Affairs or the Dean or even camp out there in front of their offices to wait to talk to them. Do not give up on that yet !!

And remember to take a step back or two and reevaluate everything honestly and realistically to ensure some great degree of certainty and form a great plan and be determined to follow through this time.

I am really sympathetic with you because one of my friends also failed out of a med school in the US after only the first semester. He went back to school and got a degree in computer engineering. Now he is making 150K+ a year and having a lot of fun with life. Another one also failed out of dental school and opened a restaurant. Now, 2 years later, that guy is expanding with 2 new restaurants and super successful and busy with his restaurant business. The point is life can take a great turn and not according to our original plans and it might be for the best. There are different paths leading to the top in life. Don't focus on the details. Look at the big picture: what do we really want to accomplish in our (relatively short) lives ??

Keep us posted and GL !!


ChrisGriffin and jonnythan, Go to hell. I hope that you find yourselves in life situations worse than mine, I really do, just so you learn to be kind to people in trouble. I think that you have deep psychological issues that makes you mean to people, maybe were bullied? Anyway, I'm done tolerating you. If you have any humanity or dignity left in you, you'd stop posting replies to this thread.

Top Gun, my school gave plenty of people in my situation second chances, but not me so I think that yea they WERE cruel to me. Maybe they were in a bad mood? didn't have the time? Cuz while investigating about my appeal, I found out that my appeal letter was lost!!! so I submitted another one after the fact that the dismissal was issued. And, after 3 months of emailing and calling, I have a strong feeling that they never bothered to read my appeal letter anyway, maybe because they are too lazy to reopen the case, who knows. I think that's just not fair.

GunnarBronson and torontopharm, I'll look into your suggestions. Thanks for passing by.



I researched the matter myself recently. I found this book by AMA that explains exactly what I was looking for. I contacted the medical boards directly whenever I had questions not answered in this book and found out some very good information. Here's a link to the book: https://commerce.ama-assn.org/store/catalog/productDetail.jsp?product_id=prod2420007&navAction=push

I'll post some of my findings here for the benefit of others. Please note that this info is based on my own understanding and you may use it at your own risk. It is always advisable for you to research the information yourself to confirm before using it.

- There are 8 states that require only ECGME hospital rotations: California, Florida, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Texas, and Virginia

o Florida, Illinois, Michigan, New Jersey, and Texas have specific requirements for rotations related to Greenbook hospitals.

- In states such as Maryland, may allow licensure without a residency if the applicant has done something good for medical science such as research or an invention.

- Being a member of faculty in a medical school allows for a limited license. Some states (Iowa) count it for a limited licence experience as GME

o Montana will give a publisher of peer-reviewed articles a limited license.

- States that follow CA list:

o Alaska,

o Georgia (will accept disapproved schools but requires 3 years of GME rather than 1 year with an approved school),

o Indiana according ot AMA but the board says they follow FAIMER's list

o New Mexico, if youattend a disapproved school, will need 3 years of medical practice not including rotations and residency. License can only be given by endorsement evaluation by AACRAO. org, American Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers, who assesses the schools that are not approved or disapproved and if the outcome if favorable you MAY be granted a license.

o North Dakota, does not license a graduate of a disapproved school or endorse it from another state. If attended a disapproved school then say goodbye to licensure in this state.

o Colorado, will accept disapproved but requires documentation of rotations and residency training to assess it’s quality.

o Vermont, does not license a graduate of a disapproved school or endorse it from another state.

- States that maintain own list of approved/disapproved schools:

o Alabama,

o Arkansas,

o California,

o Kansas,

o Montana,

o Tennessee,

o Texas, requires further documentation and paperwork but licensure is possible.

o Idaho & Kansas needs the school to be at least 15 years old (should not be disapproved for Kansas).

One more thing, I want to be a doctor because I wanted to be one for so long that I really can't see myself doing anything else. If I don't go through this and give it an honest try then I know for sure that I'll regret it for the rest of my life. I like the science behind it, the human interaction, the ability to help others, and many other things, genuinely. I honestly enjoy volunteering. I know I can do all of this with a degree such as nursing but I want to be making the decisions and know why they were taken. I can go on and on about this but it will sound like the reasons why any student wanted to be a physician. That's why I thought stating this here will be pointless.
 
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NOTE: This is not legal or medical advice and should not be construed as such.

Man. Why is there so much vitriol in this threat.

Look the guy/girl is obviously in a difficult predicament.

Just my 2 cents: OP if you want it bad enough, it is doable. Sure there is risk and being kicked out of a school hurts your chances, but do not let people tell you it's impossible. Yes you are taking a big risk that you end up 350K+ in debt and jobless. You need to recognize that. If I were you I would figure out HOW you are studying. Do you have a 'learning disability'? If so, you may need counseling/medication management.

TL;DR: Figure out what went wrong and crush the USMLE's.
 
You keep asking the same question. The answer won't change. You can become an MD, but you won't become a physician.
easy tiger. i don't believe in false optimism but unjustified pessimism is worse. give the guy a break - maybe OP has family to support them while they retry the whole process. sure it may take OP another 3-4 years and they will rack up six figure debt but if it's the only career for OP, then it may be worth it.
 
this is great research and info as well !! Thanks !! :thumbup::thumbup:

@premedstud101 : I am sorry to hear about your situation. I agree with others above that you should try to get instated at your original institution. Your situation must have been special that they did give 2nd chances to other failed students but not you. It might be that there was some big misunderstanding that they thought that you did not care that you did not even appeal (bc the appeal letter was lost ??) I think you should try every way you can to clear all misunderstanding IN PERSON with them NOW.

So, if I were you, I would fly out again to the Caribbean and make an appointment to talk to Student Affairs or the Dean or even camp out there in front of their offices to wait to talk to them. Do not give up on that yet !!

And remember to take a step back or two and reevaluate everything honestly and realistically to ensure some great degree of certainty and form a great plan and be determined to follow through this time.

I am really sympathetic with you because one of my friends also failed out of a med school in the US after only the first semester. He went back to school and got a degree in computer engineering. Now he is making 150K+ a year and having a lot of fun with life. Another one also failed out of dental school and opened a restaurant. Now, 2 years later, that guy is expanding with 2 new restaurants and super successful and busy with his restaurant business. The point is life can take a great turn and not according to our original plans and it might be for the best. There are different paths leading to the top in life. Don't focus on the details. Look at the big picture: what do we really want to accomplish in our (relatively short) lives ??

Keep us posted and GL !!

Trust me. I looked into this matter for 3 months; phone calls, emails, told them I'm coming over to camp out in front of their offices. They spoke with me and I escalated the matter to the top but got to a dead-end. I have moved on. I'll try my luck somewhere else.
 
For some reason people are twisting up my advice as me being mean.


Any one of you who tells this guy that he should try again at medical school is offering terrible, terrible advice. You can get as defensive about it as you want, but I am the only person here who is actually giving you good advice. I am not sympathetic to your situation AT ALL because you are not a unique snowflake. You. Failed. Out.

You. Will. Not. Get. A. Residency.



Try. Something. Else.

Or just say that I am being "cruel" and "mean".

I just call it "the facts" and "honesty".
 
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For some reason people are twisting up my advice as me being mean.


Any one of you who tells this guy that he should try again at medical school is offering terrible, terrible advice. You can get as defensive about it as you want, but I am the only person here who is actually giving you good advice. I am not sympathetic to your situation AT ALL because you are not a unique snowflake. You. Failed. Out.

You. Will. Not. Get. A. Residency.



Try. Something. Else.

Or just say that I am being "cruel" and "mean".

I just call it "the facts" and "honesty".


And you may be right, sure. Your honesty is good input, but it's certainly not a fact that OP will *not* get residency.
 
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And you may be right, sure. Your honesty is good input, but it's certainly not a fact that OP will *not* get residency.
These are the posts I am talking about. You are giving false hope to someone who is about to make a catastrophic mistake. Say it like it is. There is no light at the end of this tunnel.
 
These are the posts I am talking about. You are giving false hope to someone who is about to make a catastrophic mistake. Say it like it is. There is no light at the end of this tunnel.

I did not give false hope anywhere. I explicitly said to OP how much of a risk he/she is taking - financially especially.

Look man, do you want to argue it out with a stranger how you're sooo sure he/she will NEVER practice medicine? I don't. I wanted to weigh in and tell him/her that there is a glimmer of hope, however slim, simply because I know a person who was in OP's situation. They overcame it, albeit at a cost.

Now, it's a beautiful Sunday and I'm going to enjoy it. I hope you can do the same.
 
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There have also been 8 people who walked on the moon. Lets go around telling people that they have a chance of walking on the moon now because *its been done before*. Lets tell them they should bet 250k and 4 years of their life that they will walk on the moon.
 
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There have also been 8 people who walked on the moon. Lets go around telling people that they have a chance of walking on the moon now because *its been done before*. Lets tell them they should bet 250k and 4 years of their life that they will walk on the moon.

People say all manner of things, LOL!
 
The internet is not known for offering "gentle" advice to most. Doubly-true in the "difficult to be kind" department when you're anonymous...

Having said that, you learn as a doctor to weigh odds. When there is someone who's in septic shock that comes in the the ED and the surgeon wants to go right away to the OR for an open exploration of an abdominal abscess, their creatinine is 6.1 mg/dL, their lactate level is 13 mmol/L, their blood pressure is 75/35 and their heart rate is 135 BPM, the first thing you do is say, "No. Sorry. I need to resuscitate this person first. Let's give some antibiotics and fluid and get them stabilized before we rush of the the OR where I'm probably going to kill them if you insist on going right this second."

This is what you learn. This is what I suggest. Slow down, take a breath, don't rush into anything else right now. Try to figure out how you got here, and try to figure out a sensible way out before you end up making a bigger mistake... and killing your career.

-Skip
 
AUA is now approved by CA, NY, & FL. And as far as I found out, the only states that won't license a graduate of a CA disapproved school are California, Alaska, Vermont, and North Dakota. All other states are case-by-case basis.

AUA has a really expensive loan program.
 
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ChrisGriffin and jonnythan, Go to hell. I hope that you find yourselves in life situations worse than mine, I really do, just so you learn to be kind to people in trouble. I think that you have deep psychological issues that makes you mean to people, maybe were bullied? Anyway, I'm done tolerating you. If you have any humanity or dignity left in you, you'd stop posting replies to this thread.

Top Gun, my school gave plenty of people in my situation second chances, but not me so I think that yea they WERE cruel to me. Maybe they were in a bad mood? didn't have the time? for me, after 3 months of emailing and calling, I have a strong feeling that they never bothered to read my appeal letter anyway, maybe because they are too lazy to reopen the case, who knows. I think that's just not fair.

Plenty of people? How many is plenty of people? And what were there individual circumstances? It may be that the students your school gave second chances (or rather third chances, since going to the Caribbean itself is your second chance to become a physician) were students whom they felt were salvageable or whom had extenuating circumstances. Did any of that apply to you?

And you are certainly not entitled to another chance. Your med school can do whatever it wants. And why would any med school take a chance on a student who has already failed when there are many other qualified applicants with no blemishes on their records practically beating down the door to get into med school?

As for your response to ChrisGriffen and jonnythan, it speaks volumes about you. I can see why your med school may have had issues with reinstating you if that was the way you came across to your school administration.
 
As for your response to ChrisGriffen and jonnythan, it speaks volumes about you. I can see why your med school may have had issues with reinstating you if that was the way you came across to your school administration.

This is a dude who is going to spend the rest of his life trying to ram his head through a concrete wall.

The only thing we can do for people like this is offer him a hand in digging his own grave
 
This is a dude who is going to spend the rest of his life trying to ram his head through a concrete wall.

The only thing we can do for people like this is offer him a hand in digging his own grave

You're right. He'll get his wake-up call sooner or later.
 
I would try to enter healthcare as a PA, NP, tech, etc. They have plenty of patient interaction and PAs can write prescriptions.
 
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