Reality

[painmanager]

Not that money is the main issue or anything, but it's always good to hear how our colleagues in the real world are doing. I was talking to this guy who just graduated in june and joined a private practice group. He's starting at $310,000. Second year it'll be $360,000, his third year it'll be >=$400,000. He's in a decent size midwest city, about 2 million people. Call q11. Not bad.

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[MDWannabe]

Dang, that is a lot of money....

Tell me something...if I don't care where I practice (alabama/south carolina/arkansas/alaska, etc.) can I make >$500,000 a year? I don't mind doing a fellowship (cardiac/pain mgt).

Yeah, go ahead and flame me if you want to, but I'm just wondering.....do you know of any anesthesiologists that are doing THAT well?

I come from a lower middle class family, and being that rich someday would be awesome....it would be pretty cool not to drive a 10+ yo car all the time, and have a nice house/go on vacations and not stay in ratty motels, etc.

Let's just hope my boards turn out okay...

 

[painmanager]

Actually, a group that I worked with as a medical student in this same city had even it's most junior partners making over 500K a year. They worked pretty hard, usually from 630am to about 630pm everyday, and calls were pretty brutal, but they were only like q12 call or something. Plus they had one person who did all the pain management for the group, she took away some procedures from the interventional radiologists at the hospital because they couldn't follow up on any of their patients. Anyways, she was making a little over 1mil/year, I sh#t you not. It was good to hear from this guy who just started at his new job that the market for anesthesia is golden right now, and may even become better for us. He was saying that there is such a shortage, his group is already accounting for the fact that in 3 years, they are going to have to start offering new grads 350K right out of residency to compete with surrounding groups.

 

[Mr_Money]

It's true......it's true!! This is why I'm so money I didn't even know I was money. For Christ sakes man, I'm 33 and pulling in around $400k/year which is especially sweet after all these years of indentured servitude.

PEACE!!

 

[Skip Intro]

Just remember, the money comes and goes. It has been huge the past few years because the pool of new anesthesiologists all but dried-up in the mid to late 1990's. So, as a result, there has been a shortage for a glut of jobs. It's the simply economical law of supply and demand. This may or may not change as more CRNA's fill spots (not to rehash a tired debate) and gain more leverage.

Point is: go into gas primarily because you like the field, not for the salary. I just finished my first elective today, and I personally cannot now see myself doing anything else. My attending said that I was the best student he's had in years. I tell you this simply because a lot of my colleagues who started this rotation being interested in gas for, in my opinion, the wrong reasons ended-up leaving early during the day, popping into cases just to try to get an intubation (which REALLY pisses-off the attendings), getting bored and walking out of cases, not knowing even the basics about how the circuit works, not knowing the patient before going into the room, etc. Trust me, this was noticed.

Sadly, you can tell they have no interest in really pursuing anesthesiology for the discipline but are being lured by the money. In my opinion, this is the worst possible reason to decide on a career . If you don't love what you do and have a passion for it, you shouldn't get into just because the money is good. Not saying that such folks wouldn't be able to do the job, but they will be miserable people - more so if the money evaporates.

Just my $0.02.

-Skip

 

[Lonestar]

whatever,
there are plenty of people who decide the money/lifestyle issue. Lets see, if Radiology, optho, anes, derm, plastic surg were all making 150K a year and fam pract, intern med (general), and peds were making >250k, I guarantee you that the later three WOULD be the most competitive fields to get into. Its just normal human behaviour whether you like it or not. All I say is that as long as you don't hate what you are doing, then go for it.

On a upbeat note, this guy just finished up his residency at our place and he is in the money. $300K to start, Q10 call, 8 wks vacation , short partnership track (1-2 years depending on his skill level), 12 wks vacation when he makes partner, OH and $500k once he is partner. He also gets malpractice paid, and some other stuff about a tax shelter (I didn't understand it when he was telling me all this). No he is not going to the midwest (east coast). He is a pretty cool guy with a nice personality. Man I can't wait till I get out of residency and can actually start paying off my 200k debt.

Mr. Money you're sooooooo MONEY! I wannabe just like you when I grow up.

 

[Mr_Money]

Mr. Money you're sooooooo MONEY! I wannabe just like you when I grow up.

A common thought.........

 

[Al Pacino]

Q11 call is really good, but the reality is that if you're not in a decent sized city, it just seems natural that you might have to do q3-4 call as the group will be small.

 

[jwk]

About your second paragraph--$300,000 to start, q10 call, 8wks vacation, short partnership track--why don't you tell us all which city your friend is in?? Even though you mention that it's not a midwest locale, I am pretty sure it's not in a big city in the Northeast or in SE Florida; probably in the carolinas or georgia or some booney place on the east coast. Maybe your CA3 was really lucky, but the best offers in the NYC metro area our CA3s received were ~$230K, 4year partnership (>$400K after partner), 4wks vacation only, and they'll be working HARD. I am not trying to dim anyone's enthusiasm, but please inform us of location before throwing grand numbers around.

Location, location, location. Just like real estate.

The more they want you / need you, the more you'll get. Simple economics. There's plenty of supply in the major metro areas or the areas considered more "desirable". But the demand is in the smaller cities and areas not quite as desirable but still not bad places to live.

That's why the CRNA's still have a lock on the more rural areas. They are willing to cover the small town hospitals (or two or three of them) where the anesthesiologists, for the most part, still won't touch them.

 

[painmanager]

Like I said, the people I spoke with in my posts are practicing in a large city, Chicago to be exact. But they say that salaries like that are quite common in the midwest, even in the larger cities.

 

[Lonestar]

chinochulo,
the city is Charleston, SC. Its a big enough city. It may not be NYC, but its still big. No its not the boonedocks. When I am throwing around these numbers, I generally wouldn't do it for podunck south carolina. As far as florida goes, I am not sure what the offers are there, but I don't like the malpractice picture in that state. To be honest, I would be estatic with making anything over 200k. Then, atleast I can pay off my loans in a reasonable time period and get on with the rest of my life.

 

[GMO2003]

Actually, a group that I worked with as a medical student in this same city had even it's most junior partners making over 500K a year. They worked pretty hard, usually from 630am to about 630pm everyday, and calls were pretty brutal, but they were only like q12 call or something. Plus they had one person who did all the pain management for the group, she took away some procedures from the interventional radiologists at the hospital because they couldn't follow up on any of their patients. Anyways, she was making a little over 1mil/year, I sh#t you not. It was good to hear from this guy who just started at his new job that the market for anesthesia is golden right now, and may even become better for us. He was saying that there is such a shortage, his group is already accounting for the fact that in 3 years, they are going to have to start offering new grads 350K right out of residency to compete with surrounding groups.

while the possibility of making that kind of money is possible..albeit very small...how in the world would you..unless, you were the practice business manager would you know how much these docs make...perhaps, they told you..but is 1mil probably gross revenue, I'm sure

 

[doc05]

chinochulo,
the city is Charleston, SC. Its a big enough city. It may not be NYC, but its still big. No its not the boonedocks. When I am throwing around these numbers, I generally wouldn't do it for podunck south carolina. As far as florida goes, I am not sure what the offers are there, but I don't like the malpractice picture in that state. To be honest, I would be estatic with making anything over 200k. Then, atleast I can pay off my loans in a reasonable time period and get on with the rest of my life.

Charleston, SC?? figures. Charleston may be city, but it ain't big.

And p.s., all of SC is podunk, but at least there's good golf.

 

[Lonestar]

Yeah, good golf, nice beach, nice weather. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder my friend.

 

[bababuey]

I know a lot of ppl on this forum say go into anesthesia because you "love it" not because it pays well. I think thats BS. Who cares if ppl do it for the money. Medicine is a job just like anything else. As long as they do a good job, who are we to judge their motives? Can you blame someone for wanting to make a lot of money, especially after long years of schooling and residency and thousands of dollars in debt?

 

[powermd]

I know a lot of ppl on this forum say go into anesthesia because you "love it" not because it pays well. I think thats BS. Who cares if ppl do it for the money. Medicine is a job just like anything else. As long as they do a good job, who are we to judge their motives? Can you blame someone for wanting to make a lot of money, especially after long years of schooling and residency and thousands of dollars in debt?

You're missing the point. People say "don't do it for the moneY" because they have a higher value in mind- happiness with your life! What they're saying is that if you don't enjoy anesthesia, you may make a lot of money, but you won't enjoy your job, and that will make you miserable. In their opinion, you would be better off picking a field you actually enjoy, even if it makes less money. Of course, there's the added caveat that anesthesiologists may not always be paid so well - we are all assuming the trend of high reimbursement will continue for 10-15 yrs - so if money is your primary motivator, how will you feel if your pay gets cut in half? See? So pick a field you love, and you will probably be happier in the long run, regardless of your paycheck.

 

[bababuey]

You're missing the point. People say "don't do it for the moneY" because they have a higher value in mind- happiness with your life! What they're saying is that if you don't enjoy anesthesia, you may make a lot of money, but you won't enjoy your job, and that will make you miserable. In their opinion, you would be better off picking a field you actually enjoy, even if it makes less money. Of course, there's the added caveat that anesthesiologists may not always be paid so well - we are all assuming the trend of high reimbursement will continue for 10-15 yrs - so if money is your primary motivator, how will you feel if your pay gets cut in half? See? So pick a field you love, and you will probably be happier in the long run, regardless of your paycheck.

Your point well taken, however I suppose you assume that someone will eventually find something they love in medicine. I dont know about everyone out there, but many, if not most people that i have ran into dont really love anything in particular in medicine. How many people have you ran into that wasnt sure what to go into cuz nothing really stuck out as something they would really love? In fact many ppl i know went into medicine without really liking the field as a whole! Sure its better than most other things they could think of doing... but really love it? I mean how many of you would love to take call, love to wake up at 530 or 6am to go to work, love to stay late, etc? For many its just a job and as every job, there are many things to take into consideration. I think its safe to say that for most people, how much they will make is a big factor, if not the biggest consideration in what job they will like. For instance, i would when i first went to medical school i thought of pediatrics...however the thought of starting out at less than a 100K (heard of even low as high 80k in cali) made me abandon that idea. Why cuz the money was not there and i knew i would not be happy with taht. However i will do anesthesia even tho its not something i love because of many reasons, among which one big one is that it pays well. Reality is people go where the money is cuz money makes people happy. Who said money doesnt buy happiness???? Maybe not for some people but it sure as hell doesnt hurt! The more we make, the more we feel appreciated and the more we feel we are doing something important. Of course the more $hit they can buy also.

To put it simply there is a reason why a job is called a job. If everyone did what they loved, we wouldnt have jobs... rather just a bunch of "hobbies".

 

[javandane]

Your point well taken, however I suppose you assume that someone will eventually find something they love in medicine. I dont know about everyone out there, but many, if not most people that i have ran into dont really love anything in particular in medicine. How many people have you ran into that wasnt sure what to go into cuz nothing really stuck out as something they would really love? In fact many ppl i know went into medicine without really liking the field as a whole! Sure its better than most other things they could think of doing... but really love it? I mean how many of you would love to take call, love to wake up at 530 or 6am to go to work, love to stay late, etc? For many its just a job and as every job, there are many things to take into consideration. I think its safe to say that for most people, how much they will make is a big factor, if not the biggest consideration in what job they will like. For instance, i would when i first went to medical school i thought of pediatrics...however the thought of starting out at less than a 100K (heard of even low as high 80k in cali) made me abandon that idea. Why cuz the money was not there and i knew i would not be happy with taht. However i will do anesthesia even tho its not something i love because of many reasons, among which one big one is that it pays well. Reality is people go where the money is cuz money makes people happy. Who said money doesnt buy happiness???? Maybe not for some people but it sure as hell doesnt hurt! The more we make, the more we feel appreciated and the more we feel we are doing something important. Of course the more $hit they can buy also.

To put it simply there is a reason why a job is called a job. If everyone did what they loved, we wouldnt have jobs... rather just a bunch of "hobbies".

though not overly eloquent, i agree completely with your views. i work to live, i don't live to work. for me, a large part of job satisfaction is making the most money while concurrenly working the least amount of time. which is quite different than working the least amount. to be sure, i'll bust my ass and be the best i can be while i'm wearing the white coat, but i won't be the guy who's in before everyone else and the last one to leave. . . .

 

[Lonestar]

Bababuey and Javandane,

you both have it right on. A big FACT that people seem to forget is that while some may LOVE their field when they entered it, but when 5 years into practice all the elure and glimmer is gone and everything becomes routine. Trust me on this one. Just look around the hospital and you won't find many docs enjoying what they do. Most of them treat it just like a job. So, all you have left is money. I have had plenty of family medicine docs and Internal medicine docs tell me to go the right way (either anesthesia or rads).

Powermd has a good point, but as long as you don't hate what you are doing you are fine. Otherwise you are setting yourself up for a big disappointment. There is a reason why the popular fields are popular. ER has its lure of doing shift work and low hours/wk, Rads has money and hours, and so on....

I am a anesthesiology intern about to be a CA1. I went into it because it had good money and i didn't hate it. I didn't LOVE it either. I have done one rotation in anesthesia this year and i can tell that by looking at the other anesthesia residents I am with the majority. Most people if they LOVED what they were doing wouldn't be complaining about taking extra call and trying to get out of the door by 4-5 pm everyday. OH and most of these folks are awesome at what they do and they don't LOVE it. So lets settle this little argument, period.

Money and lifestyle rocks because i have neither right now.

 

[MedicinePowder]

Bababuey and Javandane,

you both have it right on. A big FACT that people seem to forget is that while some may LOVE their field when they entered it, but when 5 years into practice all the elure and glimmer is gone and everything becomes routine. Trust me on this one. Just look around the hospital and you won't find many docs enjoying what they do. Most of them treat it just like a job. So, all you have left is money. I have had plenty of family medicine docs and Internal medicine docs tell me to go the right way (either anesthesia or rads).

Powermd has a good point, but as long as you don't hate what you are doing you are fine. Otherwise you are setting yourself up for a big disappointment. There is a reason why the popular fields are popular. ER has its lure of doing shift work and low hours/wk, Rads has money and hours, and so on....

I am a anesthesiology intern about to be a CA1. I went into it because it had good money and i didn't hate it. I didn't LOVE it either. I have done one rotation in anesthesia this year and i can tell that by looking at the other anesthesia residents I am with the majority. Most people if they LOVED what they were doing wouldn't be complaining about taking extra call and trying to get out of the door by 4-5 pm everyday. OH and most of these folks are awesome at what they do and they don't LOVE it. So lets settle this little argument, period.

Money and lifestyle rocks because i have neither right now.

nicely said. it is exceptionally annoying when u have people arguing that you should only do it for the love of the field. fact of the matter is you need to take different variables into account when making a decision on a career and it is perfectly fine to consider economics into the equation.

 

[morrisje]

Just heard from a recent graduate of my average midwest med school's Anesthesiology program that will be starting at 500K with a 200K signing bonus to work in Las Vegas. I don't know about call or all the details, but they had to commit to at least five years working there.

 

[jwk]

Just heard from a recent graduate of my average midwest med school's Anesthesiology program that will be starting at 500K with a 200K signing bonus to work in Las Vegas. I don't know about call or all the details, but they had to commit to at least five years working there.

There's a reason why places offer big bucks and big bonuses like that AND require a 5-yr committment - and it's NOT because it's THE place to work.

 

[Lonestar]

Morrisje,

the 500k doesn't surprise me. I believe Las vegas is one of the hottest markets for anesthesia right now. BUT 200k signing bonus? Something is fishy here. Jwk is right on; that place must be really desperate. That bonus would be good for me right about now; atleast i can pay back my loans. At rate these med schools are increasing their tuitions, no one in their right mind would want to go through med school. Average debt of my classmates was $167K. Interestingly enough, we had a record number of folks entering radiology, anesthesia, optho, derm, rad onc, ortho, and path.

 

[MAC10]

Just heard from a recent graduate of my average midwest med school's Anesthesiology program that will be starting at 500K with a 200K signing bonus to work in Las Vegas. I don't know about call or all the details, but they had to commit to at least five years working there.

That is a sweet deal

I just re-signed a contract for 39K/year. Im pretty much comitted to that for the next 3 years.

 

[mebhs15]

Everyone was talking about "Podunk, SC", but thats basically where I'm from. Do anesthesiologists make more there or something?