REALITY of the merger: PD: "We went from 170 applications to 450 applications our first cycle"

[IslandStyle808]

There's only 1 comment I made in regards to my post: That people with a 200-220 step 1 score DID match into Ortho. I made no comments as to how or why this happens.

What I like to point out is how the tone changed from "if you don't have X or Y board score you can't match into this specialty" to "If your application is otherwise STELLAR then a low board score can possibly be overlooked." If you read a few pages back on this thread (or on SDN in general) it seems like without a certain board score for your speciality you're out REGARDLESS of the rest of your app.

You can't take the data for what it is. You have to understand why and how that happens, that is the point of reading SDN. Being a publication machine or even going to Harvard are probably factors that help boost those people in the 220 range.

This is the point of why you need context to truly understand as to how to interpret the data. For instance, if I asked what what is easier match into, medical school with a 40% acceptance rate or ortho with a USMLE of 220 and a 60% match rate? You pretty much know it is getting into medical school with a 40% rate. You didn't understand this from the AAMC and NRMP data, but instead from actually communicating with people on this forum and also from people who have been through the process.

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[MADD!!!]

You can't take the data for what it is. You have to understand why and how that happens, that is the point of reading SDN. Being a publication machine or even going to Harvard are probably factors that help boost those people in the 220 range.

This is the point of why you need context to truly understand as to how to interpret the data. For instance, if I asked what what is easier match into, medical school with a 40% acceptance rate or ortho with a USMLE of 220 and a 60% match rate? You pretty much know it is getting into medical school with a 40% rate. You didn't understand this from the AAMC and NRMP data, but instead from actually communicating with people on this forum and also from people who have been through the process.

I agree.

 

[hallowmann]

Well, they're not Caribbean style exactly. However, these expansions have been reckless with the older school being just as guilty of expanding their own classes. 10-15 years ago schools didn't start out with 162 students, but instead 75-100 students (ex. KYCOM, ATSU-SOMA).

Reckless yes, Caribbean style, no.

1) Lack of guidance and support from admin
2) Degrading clinical education, in which a 100 bed hospital in the middle of nowhere is considered legitimate clinical training
3) Zero research opportunity
4) Reckless increase in class size and school openings w/o adequate increase in GME spots all in the name of profit
5) More and more school openings in trailers w/ third world country infrastructure (e.g. WCOM pathetic of an excuse effort to teach their students in trailers)
6) Arcane emphasis on OMM history and research that have zero implication in practice and Steps

I could go on and on. Thank god that I'm not gunning for anything super competitive. Otherwise, I would be super pissed about not taking a gap year at this moment. However, the DO education is slowly deteriorating to an online diploma mill system w/o any quality check from the higher up people.

Yeah, virtually all of those have been problems at DO schools for decades, except maybe #5 and that's about a specific school that underwent a natural disaster. Maybe the degree to which #4 is happening is greater than previous, but it's been happening for a while.

The DO degree is doing fine. Could it be better? Absolutely. But I just have to point out that these have been problems and criticisms of DO schools, since before I even heard about the degree way back in aught 5.

 

[grapefruit17]

So much hate on wcom. Most do schools are about the same besides the cost factor. Looking back the only 3 things that matter are mandatory attendance, cost, location.

 

[Peach Newport]

Reckless yes, Caribbean style, no.



Yeah, virtually all of those have been problems at DO schools for decades, except maybe #5 and that's about a specific school that underwent a natural disaster. Maybe the degree to which #4 is happening is greater than previous, but it's been happening for a while.

The DO degree is doing fine. Could it be better? Absolutely. But I just have to point out that these have been problems and criticisms of DO schools, since before I even heard about the degree way back in aught 5.

Honestly, for a few DO schools, a few 100 bed teaching hospitals in the middle of nowhere would be a massive improvement. At least it's not an Ob/gyn rotation in a private practice office.

But yeah, expanding class sizes, nonexistent research, and LACK OF ADVISING are all ENORMOUS problems.

It's completely unfair to blame WCU for teaching in trailers. It's actually really great that they're making sure classes are still going. Dude, their campus got leveled by a f**king tornado. Cut them a break. What else should they have done.

Also, very few DO schools put "an emphasis on arcane history of OMM." Sure it exists but it's hardly systematic.

 

[Wjldenver]

Honestly, for a few DO schools, a few 100 bed teaching hospitals in the middle of nowhere would be a massive improvement. At least it's not an Ob/gyn rotation in a private practice office.

But yeah, expanding class sizes, nonexistent research, and LACK OF ADVISING are all ENORMOUS problems.

It's completely unfair to blame WCU for teaching in trailers. It's actually really great that they're making sure classes are still going. Dude, their campus got leveled by a f**king tornado. Cut them a break. What else should they have done.

Also, very few DO schools put "an emphasis on arcane history of OMM." Sure it exists but it's hardly systematic.

Don't SDN members read posts by Worldchanger who is a student at WCU? Their classes were moved to the University of Southern Miss. campus which is hardly a collection of FEMA trailers. What needs fixing is the direction provided by the COCA in regard to DO school standards, curriculum and expansion. As a consultant in the health care industry, I'm tempted to offer my firm's services for free to the COCA to help them get a clue. They seem to be a bunch of blind squirrels, who as much as they try, cannot find any nuts.

 

[hallowmann]

Don't SDN members read posts by Worldchanger who is a student at WCU? Their classes were moved to the University of Southern Miss. campus which is hardly a collection of FEMA trailers. What needs fixing is the direction provided by the COCA in regard to DO school standards, curriculum and expansion. As a consultant in the health care industry, I'm tempted to offer my firm's services for free to the COCA to help them get a clue. They seem to be a bunch of blind squirrels, who as much as they try, cannot find any nuts.

So COCA is interesting. Both it and the AOA have made significant improvements in their policies, while simultaneously taking a few steps back. The most recent changes for example relate to improving DO clinical education standards with regards to resident teams making the requirement similar to the LCME requirements, while in the same year removing the requirement for 95% GME placement of graduates.

I suspect that they do a balancing act between making improvements echoed by students and residents and appeasing the opposition to change present among some older DOs and schools that don't want to spend more of their profit on students/education.

 

[Ioannes Paulus]

So COCA is interesting. Both it and the AOA have made significant improvements in their policies, while simultaneously taking a few steps back. The most recent changes for example relate to improving DO clinical education standards with regards to resident teams making the requirement similar to the LCME requirements, while in the same year removing the requirement for 95% GME placement of graduates.

COCA is currently overhauling their standards for accreditation which is why a handful of schools that are trying to open are just getting memos that evaluations will occur at a later date (LECOM, the new CA school, the FL school, etc.)

 

[Henry101]

What do you guys think RVU does differently where their students are required to take the USMLE in addition to the COMLEX?
If more DO schools required the USMLE, wouldn't most of these be non-issues?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

COCA is currently overhauling their standards for accreditation which is why a handful of schools that are trying to open are just getting memos that evaluations will occur at a later date (LECOM, the new CA school, the FL school, etc.)

In some respects I'm not sure why they're trying to do this. It's not like they can slip under an umbrella. If they fail to meet the new standards their investment is now dead.

I think any school that is given accreditation will likely pass under the new ones.

 

[hallowmann]

What do you guys think RVU does differently where their students are required to take the USMLE in addition to the COMLEX?
If more DO schools required the USMLE, wouldn't most of these be non-issues?

If it makes schools cater their curriculum to those taking the USMLE, like for example giving enough time for dedicated study for 2 board exams, then it would be good.

That said, while I would recommend every DO student at least intend to take the USMLE, for some this is a bad idea. The people that are barely passing the COMLEX shouldn't be taking the USMLE. In a situation where someone is getting less than 210 on the USMLE, having it is usually more of a detriment. I don't think you should be forced to do something that isn't necessary for your licensing if it will hurt your residency chances, especially if it means paying for 2 board exams out of pocket when you only need one.

Now if things change, and DOs need to take the USMLE + an OMM portion to get licensed, then that's fine, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

 

[Major]

What about surgical programs (post 2020) that maintain "OR" status? Most likely, will these be the programs that DOs, wanting surgery, hit the hardest to try to match into?

 

[Ioannes Paulus]

What about surgical programs (post 2020) that maintain "OR" status? Most likely, will these be the programs that DOs, wanting surgery, hit the hardest to try to match into?

I actually expect the exact opposite.
General surgery is becoming less and less competitive every year as the salary is decreasing and more and more programs are following the "plastic surgery" model and opening "combined" programs (vascular surgery, etc.). Still very competitive but most of the third years at my school think they have a shot at ACGME programs and aren't scheduling auditions in OR or AOA programs.

 

[DrBowtie]

What about surgical programs (post 2020) that maintain "OR" status? Most likely, will these be the programs that DOs, wanting surgery, hit the hardest to try to match into?

I would imagine that to be true given the as far as I know yet to be determined requirements for MD students to enter "OR" residencies. Seemingly if they went through the trouble to get "OR" they'd be more tied to the DO identity.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

I actually expect the exact opposite.
General surgery is becoming less and less competitive every year as the salary is decreasing and more and more programs are following the "plastic surgery" model and opening "combined" programs (vascular surgery, etc.). Still very competitive but most of the third years at my school think they have a shot at ACGME programs and aren't scheduling auditions in OR or AOA programs.

That's not really accurate at all

Wish all the luck to your colleagues, but if they want gen surg they should take things very, very seriously. It's one of the big bastion of bias.

 

[jw3600]

I actually expect the exact opposite.
General surgery is becoming less and less competitive every year as the salary is decreasing and more and more programs are following the "plastic surgery" model and opening "combined" programs (vascular surgery, etc.). Still very competitive but most of the third years at my school think they have a shot at ACGME programs and aren't scheduling auditions in OR or AOA programs.

I think only around 50/100 of DO applicants matched GS in 2016 based off that most recent Osteopathic-specific match outcome report.

Not really a great showing.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I think only around 50/100 of DO applicants matched GS in 2016 based off that most recent Osteopathic-specific match outcome report.

Not really a great showing.

Yeah LPs comment is totally bogus, but I do have a problem with taking those numbers at face value. I've talked to medical students who recently matched ACGME gen surg or who were applying and they all said that the people they knew with the stats/CVs at the MD matched average all matched and had a decent number of interviews. They said that the people they knew who didn't match tended to be people who had bad advising and took a chance at ACGME GS with just COMLEX, below average Step (like 220s), or tried to limit themselves to a specific region. With how bad some of the advising is at some of the DO schools I can totally see GS being a field that a lot of the unmatched applicants applied with apps poorly suited to actually match. I really wish the charting outcomes
gave USMLE stats, or even how many applied with a USMLE score because the current info doesn't really tell us much.

 

[Ioannes Paulus]

Yeah LPs comment is totally bogus, but I do have a problem with taking those numbers at face value. I've talked to medical students who recently matched ACGME gen surg or who were applying and they all said that the people they knew with the stats/CVs at the MD matched average all matched and had a decent number of interviews. They said that the people they knew who didn't match tended to be people who had bad advising and took a chance at ACGME GS with just COMLEX, below average Step (like 220s), or tried to limit themselves to a specific region. With how bad some of the advising is at some of the DO schools I can totally see GS being a field that a lot of the unmatched applicants applied with apps poorly suited to actually match. I really wish the charting outcomes
gave USMLE stats, or even how many applied with a USMLE score because the current info doesn't really tell us much.

I'm just parroting what my COM's counseling office tells us that we're encourages to apply broadly to ACGME programs unless we have a family and are more selective on location.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I'm just parroting what my COM's counseling office tells us that we're encourages to apply broadly to ACGME programs unless we have a family and are more selective on location.

Would make sense. Seeing as RVU has generally solid surgical matches every year, and a good number of GS, I would assume the advising is pretty good there. Some of my friends at other schools are almost completely left out to dry, or given horrible advice.

 

[acapnial]

Would make sense. Seeing as RVU has generally solid surgical matches every year, and a good number of GS, I would assume the advising is pretty good there. Some of my friends at other schools are almost completely left out to dry, or given horrible advice.

It's funny you should say that. My complaint has always been that the general application advice they give is over-catered to surgery.

 

[jw3600]

Yeah LPs comment is totally bogus, but I do have a problem with taking those numbers at face value. I've talked to medical students who recently matched ACGME gen surg or who were applying and they all said that the people they knew with the stats/CVs at the MD matched average all matched and had a decent number of interviews. They said that the people they knew who didn't match tended to be people who had bad advising and took a chance at ACGME GS with just COMLEX, below average Step (like 220s), or tried to limit themselves to a specific region. With how bad some of the advising is at some of the DO schools I can totally see GS being a field that a lot of the unmatched applicants applied with apps poorly suited to actually match. I really wish the charting outcomes
gave USMLE stats, or even how many applied with a USMLE score because the current info doesn't really tell us much.

Of course. You can almost argue that without USMLE scores that entire report is garbage. Really a shame.

 

[68PGunner]

The COMLEX is a legitimate substitute for the USMLE. Don't bother taking the USMLE guys. It's not worth the extra $600.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

The COMLEX is a legitimate substitute for the USMLE. Don't bother taking the USMLE guys. It's not worth the extra $600.

Litetally no one has said that except you.

 

[SurgeDO]

i would be very surprised if any surgical programs apply for "osteopathic recognition". from my experience, surgical programs are trying to distance themselves as far as possible from the AOA.

 

[EM2Be2017]

The COMLEX is a legitimate substitute for the USMLE. Don't bother taking the USMLE guys. It's not worth the extra $600.

I can't tell if you are serious or not....

Most PDs would not agree with you. If you are interested in an ACGME residency in anything remotely competitive (Like not FM, PM&R, etc), then you really need to take Step 1 and 2 in order to keep doors open. I definitely feel for the DO students out there because I wouldn't want to do it, but if you don't you are shooting yourself in the foot. Taking Step 1 and 2 in most cases is not simply preferred, it is expected.

 

[Staphylococcus Aureus]

What is going to happen to the 50% of DO students that don't take USMLE then? Isn't the AOA aggressively educating programs on the COMLEX (not to say that will sway a single PD mind)?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

What is going to happen to the 50% of DO students that don't take USMLE then? Isn't the AOA aggressively educating programs on the COMLEX (not to say that will sway a single PD mind)?

I think programs will grow more familiar with COMLEX by virtue of having more DO applicants as the merger happens. However fundamentally I think predominantly the only ones that will really examine it will continue to be less competitive ones or programs that traditionally have DOs or in DO heavier areas such as the Midwest.

Overall the tone is to take both even from the higher ups when you're able.

 

[hallowmann]

What is going to happen to the 50% of DO students that don't take USMLE then? Isn't the AOA aggressively educating programs on the COMLEX (not to say that will sway a single PD mind)?

There really are a lot of programs that already accept the COMLEX, and honestly there are plenty of residencies out there that just want people that have passed their boards. Now these are only in the less competitive specialties, but this won't end after 2020, and with most of the programs transitioning, I don't see how at least some people won't be aware of the COMLEX grading scale (afterall, there will be plenty more DOs out there - we're making up practically 25% of all US med students now).

That said, just having the COMLEX limits you no matter what field you're applying to, and I suspect the percentage of DOs taking the USMLE will increase to at least 60-70% over the next few years or so, with only poor performers opting out.

 

[68PGunner]

There really are a lot of programs that already accept the COMLEX, and honestly there are plenty of residencies out there that just want people that have passed their boards. Now these are only in the less competitive specialties, but this won't end after 2020, and with most of the programs transitioning, I don't see how at least some people won't be aware of the COMLEX grading scale (afterall, there will be plenty more DOs out there - we're making up practically 25% of all US med students now).

That said, just having the COMLEX limits you no matter what field you're applying to, and I suspect the percentage of DOs taking the USMLE will increase to at least 60-70% over the next few years or so, with only poor performers opting out.

What fields are not competitive or mildly competitive? I already know the ultra competitive fields that are being hyped up to death by sdn

 

[BorntobeDO?]

What fields are not competitive or mildly competitive? I already know the ultra competitive fields that are being hyped up to death by sdn

Think the ones that are easily matched by DO's/IMG: FM, Peds, low-end IM, Pathology
Mild would be like: Anes (at this point), Neurology, PMR, Psych

Maybe also Rads/OBGYN tho I think those might be a bit more competitive then the above. Others may know those specialties better.

All the stuff you see commonly represented on a DO schools match list I would call mild or non-competative for the majority (now granted those specialties make up the majority at most lower ranked MD also, but the competitive mix is better). But I would bet that 90% of DO grads match into the above list, whereas its prob around 50% for MD (Hallowmann feel free to fill in the gaps).

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Think the ones that are easily matched by DO's/IMG: FM, Peds, low-end IM, Pathology
Mild would be like: Anes (at this point), Neurology, PMR, Psych

Maybe also Rads/OBGYN tho I think those might be a bit more competitive then the above. Others may know those specialties better.

All the stuff you see commonly represented on a DO schools match list I would call mild or non-competative for the majority (now granted those specialties make up the majority at most lower ranked MD also, but the competitive mix is better). But I would bet that 90% of DO grads match into the above list, whereas its prob around 50% for MD (Hallowmann feel free to fill in the gaps).

I agree Rads is a bit more competitive than gas, but probably less than Ob. All are pretty in reach of well performing DOs. Though I imagine that for rads and ob a usmle would probably net a better outcome.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

I agree Rads is a bit more competitive than gas, but probably less than Ob. All are pretty in reach of well performing DOs. Though I imagine that for rads and ob a usmle would probably net a better outcome.

Community radiology programs are with in reach for DOs. Academic programs are within reach for DOs with 250s of step 1

 

[68PGunner]

Community radiology programs are with in reach for DOs. Academic programs are within reach for DOs with 250s of step 1

What kind of Step 1 score do I need for average community radiology programs, assuming that I'm flexible geographically?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Community radiology programs are with in reach for DOs. Academic programs are within reach for DOs with 250s of step 1

Academic programs in the midwest are in reach to students with far less than 250 I've been told.

 

[68PGunner]

Does anyone have an idea about the Step 1 #s for Neuro, PMR, and GAS residencies w/ in house fellowships?

 

[68PGunner]

Academic programs in the midwest are in reach to students with far less than 250 I've been told.

What academic programs are we talking about in the Midwest, and what range were you told?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

What kind of Step 1 score do I need for average community radiology programs, assuming that I'm flexible geographically?

A passing comlex or step 1 score honestly. Even people with 500s match. Rads isn't as competitive as it was 5 years ago.

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Charting-Outcomes-US-Osteopathic-2016.pdf

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

What academic programs are we talking about in the Midwest, and what range were you told?

Frankly not sure. I'm not all that familiar with radiology aside from what I hear on sdn. But people have mentioned on here that community programs in california are sometimes more competitive than university programs in the midwest for radiology and that people with 230s can match midwestern university programs.

 

[68PGunner]

I've also heard that Midwest academic programs are less competitive due to medical students' aversion to the freezing cold and seemingly boring lifestyle. I'm just curious about the academic programs that you're referring to.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

It's more that people think the world ends 10 miles outside of Boston. I had the same attitude until I came to the Midwest.

I don't remember. It was stated on here a while ago and as I said before I know the bare minimal amount radiology that it's not a topic I can really talk about without likely being wrong. But overall the statistics do paint it as a field that very few people fail to match into.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Academic programs in the midwest are in reach to students with far less than 250 I've been told.

I suppose if you are talking about places like Kansas (which is an excellent program but occasionally have a hard time recruiting), that maybe true.

I think right now any USMLE score greater than 230 will get you a community rad spot as a DO.

Radiology is on a down cycle right now, and you should be match into it by being an average student because there are some really weak programs out there.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I suppose if you are talking about places like Kansas (which is an excellent program but occasionally have a hard time recruiting), that maybe true.

I think right now any USMLE score greater than 230 will get you a community rad spot as a DO.

Radiology is on a down cycle right now, and you should be match into it by being an average student because there are some really weak programs out there.

Looking at the charting outcomes I doubt a wide net and a 210 will fail to match.

Radiology is what percent IMG now? It's not a picky field and going off of the >500 comlex having essentially everyone match speaks volumes about it.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Looking at the charting outcomes I doubt a wide net and a 210 will fail to match.

Radiology is what percent IMG now? It's not a picky field and going off of the >500 comlex having essentially everyone match speaks volumes about it.

I understand that. It's not competitive field as a whole, however even moderately large community program are competitive.

The issue of radiology is that there are too many small community sweatshops with very poor training. We need to cut the spots.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I understand that. It's not competitive field as a whole, however even moderately large community program are competitive.

The issue of radiology is that there are too many small community sweatshops with very poor training. We need to cut the spots.

Yah, I know nothing about Radiology lol. I hate physics so a specialty that requires it every day isn't cute.

 

[hallowmann]

Think the ones that are easily matched by DO's/IMG: FM, Peds, low-end IM, Pathology
Mild would be like: Anes (at this point), Neurology, PMR, Psych

Maybe also Rads/OBGYN tho I think those might be a bit more competitive then the above. Others may know those specialties better.

All the stuff you see commonly represented on a DO schools match list I would call mild or non-competative for the majority (now granted those specialties make up the majority at most lower ranked MD also, but the competitive mix is better). But I would bet that 90% of DO grads match into the above list, whereas its prob around 50% for MD (Hallowmann feel free to fill in the gaps).

I agree with most of what you said, but I wouldn't forget EM. Lots of DOs going into EM, but it's now probably moderately competitive. I knew some people that matched with COMLEX only, but most I know took the USMLE and had 215-230s scores and matched ACGME. These are motivated and good people that did well on aways (i.e. had good SLOEs).

Keep in mind too that regions/states vary a lot as well. In PA for example we have one of the highest DO:MD ratios, so more programs here are familiar with the COMLEX than in say CA. States like PA, OH, MI are far more receptive to DOs than say CA, OR, WA.

Again though, I recommend taking the USMLE to keep options open.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

I agree with most of what you said, but I wouldn't forget EM. Lots of DOs going into EM, but it's now probably moderately competitive. I knew some people that matched with COMLEX only, but most I know took the USMLE and had 215-230s scores and matched ACGME. These are motivated and good people that did well on aways (i.e. had good SLOEs).

Keep in mind too that regions/states vary a lot as well. In PA for example we have one of the highest DO:MD ratios, so more programs here are familiar with the COMLEX than in say CA. States like PA, OH, MI are far more receptive to DOs than say CA, OR, WA.

Again though, I recommend taking the USMLE to keep options open.

Deliberately left off EM cause I think its more competitive than the ones I listed, even tho a decent amount of DO's match. Same with Gen Surg. Both of those get matched by DO's, but I think you need 230+ to be really sure about getting them (maybe more for Surg). Not impossible, but definitely an above average DO student. If people are getting EM with 215s or even 220 average then I was clearly wrong in my thinking tho, and it should be on the list.

 

[IsWhat]

Deliberately left off EM cause I think its more competitive than the ones I listed, even tho a decent amount of DO's match. Same with Gen Surg. Both of those get matched by DO's, but I think you need 230+ to be really sure about getting them (maybe more for Surg). Not impossible, but definitely an above average DO student. If people are getting EM with 215s or even 220 average then I was clearly wrong in my thinking tho, and it should be on the list.

EM is playing a totally different game than any other specialty. The SLOE is king in that world and it basically puts everyone on an equal footing. No matter how competetive EM gets DOs will always match well, because everyone is required to actually prove their worth with the SLOE.

 

[EM2Be2017]

EM is playing a totally different game than any other specialty. The SLOE is king in that world and it basically puts everyone on an equal footing. No matter how competetive EM gets DOs will always match well, because everyone is required to actually prove their worth with the SLOE.

Yes and no. I really like the academic faculty in EM because I feel they respect hard work and select residents based on merit and who they can see themselves working with. I Love the idea of the SLOE because it allows everyone to prove themselves and show their dedication. However if you look at the numbers it still seems that DOs have a harder time matching into an ACGME residency when compared to MDs. There are a lot of great programs that will consider DO's, but there are also a lot of programs that simply don't interview DO's. The majority of the programs I interviewed with did not have any current DO residents, and I can't remember meeting any DO applicants.

If you look at Charting Outcomes in the Match for DOs, EM has one of the lowest match rates at 76%.
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Charting-Outcomes-US-Osteopathic-2016.pdf

As it stands DO's have a good chance at matching at an ACGME program as long as they apply broadly (which everyone should do) and apply to programs known to be receptive to DO applicants. But unfortunately I can't say that DO applicants are on the same playing field as MD applicants.

 

[IsWhat]

Yes and no. I really like the academic faculty in EM because I feel they respect hard work and select residents based on merit and who they can see themselves working with. I Love the idea of the SLOE because it allows everyone to prove themselves and show their dedication. However if you look at the numbers it still seems that DOs have a harder time matching into an ACGME residency when compared to MDs. There are a lot of great programs that will consider DO's, but there are also a lot of programs that simply don't interview DO's. The majority of the programs I interviewed with did not have any current DO residents, and I can't remember meeting any DO applicants.

If you look at Charting Outcomes in the Match for DOs, EM has one of the lowest match rates at 76%.
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Charting-Outcomes-US-Osteopathic-2016.pdf

As it stands DO's have a good chance at matching at an ACGME program as long as they apply broadly (which everyone should do) and apply to programs known to be receptive to DO applicants. But unfortunately I can't say that DO applicants are on the same playing field as MD applicants.

Yeah I never said DOs don't have a harder time matching than their MD counterparts - this goes without saying. But DOs won't be shut out of top tier EM like they are in other specialties as long as the SLOE exists, because it's a standard everyone applying to EM is held to.

 

[SurgeDO]

EM was nasty this year. I would definitely label it a competitive specialty. No idea where the spike in interest is coming from.