REALITY of the merger: PD: "We went from 170 applications to 450 applications our first cycle"

[DO2015CA]

How do you conclude that DO schools don't teach biochem to the level of MD schools?


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The comlex has no where near the detail on biochem that the usmle has and DO schools are trying to prepare its students for the comlex, I'm studying for both currently, talking to MD counterparts competing curriculum, etc.

DOs have to know the enzymes that correlate with diseases where as usmle students have to know the pathway forwards and backwards. We hear of all the biochem they hear of but we aren't held to the same standard

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[kc52]

The comlex has no where near the detail on biochem that the usmle has and DO schools are trying to prepare its students for the comlex, I'm studying for both currently, talking to MD counterparts competing curriculum, etc.

DOs have to know the enzymes that correlate with diseases where as usmle students have to know the pathway forwards and backwards. We hear of all the biochem they hear of but we aren't held to the same standard

Interesting. So I guess the best plan is to heavily supplement biochem with Step material? I guess same goes for every subject


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[DO2015CA]

Interesting. So I guess the best plan is to heavily supplement biochem with Step material? I guess same goes for every subject


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Yes. You can do FA obviously but if you need more help, DIT or a site called usmlesimple have good videos that hit the high yield

 

[Señor S]

I highly doubt that. You are speaking out of your cornhole.

A few will be able to trade on location but that's about it. Why would anyone choose a formerly DO program over an academic or large/established community ACGME program? Average AOA hospital is 200 beds and to judge by the match lists posted here most are stuck in random places.

 

[InternistDO]

A few will be able to trade on location but that's about it. Why would anyone choose a formerly DO program over an academic or large/established community ACGME program? Average AOA hospital is 200 beds and to judge by the match lists posted here most are stuck in random places.

Because more people want to do ortho/neurosx/whatever than there are available ACGME spots. Not everyone who applies ortho is a 265+, multiple research paper, Ivy League student.

I say this as a supporter of the merger, but it's crazy to think MD students would turn down a formally AOA program if it meant being able to do their speciality of choice.

 

[Señor S]

Because more people want to do ortho/neurosx/whatever than there are available ACGME spots. Not everyone who applies ortho is a 265+, multiple research paper, Ivy League student.

I say this as a supporter of the merger, but it's crazy to think MD students would turn down a formally AOA program if it meant being able to do their speciality of choice.

My point wasn't that MD applicants will be turning them down, but that (by and large) these programs will match less-competitive MD applicants (as I said, probably a lot of grads of no-name schools with good scores and grades but minimal research and no big-name LORs). These applicants aren't then going to go off and become the next generation of leaders in academic medicine who, remembering their ultra-competent DO colleagues in residency, suddenly welcome DOs into their training programs with open arms...because they won't be running training programs. Most will just become community surgeons.

 

[InternistDO]

My point wasn't that MD applicants will be turning them down, but that (by and large) these programs will match less-competitive MD applicants (as I said, probably a lot of grads of no-name schools with good scores and grades but minimal research and no big-name LORs). These applicants aren't then going to go off and become the next generation of leaders in academic medicine who, remembering their DO colleagues in residency, suddenly welcome DOs into their training programs with open arms; they won't be running training programs, in other words. Most will just become community surgeons.

Ohhh ok, I misunderstood what you were saying. My B

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Only 30 out of around 150, including myself took usmle in my class. Many registered but many also cancelled. Sdn makes it seem like getting a 230 or 240 is easy but honestly it's way harder then people think. When your school decides to have mandatory classes second year and only gives you a few weeks for boards. Yea not easy : /. Plus omm..that class took up a lot of time. And at my school omm was harder then classes like neuro.

I think pretty much everyone at my school who registers takes it. Only 30% don't take it and probably 10% of that number are military students who probably don't have to.

I think there's really no denying that OS occupies blocks of time in the curriculum. But looking back I doubt I would have used it either way because I was too busy being exhausted.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Interesting. So I guess the best plan is to heavily supplement biochem with Step material? I guess same goes for every subject


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You should honestly be studying predominately with step 1 material.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

The comlex has no where near the detail on biochem that the usmle has and DO schools are trying to prepare its students for the comlex, I'm studying for both currently, talking to MD counterparts competing curriculum, etc.

DOs have to know the enzymes that correlate with diseases where as usmle students have to know the pathway forwards and backwards. We hear of all the biochem they hear of but we aren't held to the same standard

I don't know how different schools go about biochemistry, but I have to admit I don't think it probably matters. By the time you're studying for boards you're going to be so out of biochem that you'll be relearning most of it anyways. And admittedly, I think it's very possible to relearn it.

 

[frappalino16]

The comlex has no where near the detail on biochem that the usmle has and DO schools are trying to prepare its students for the comlex, I'm studying for both currently, talking to MD counterparts competing curriculum, etc.

DOs have to know the enzymes that correlate with diseases where as usmle students have to know the pathway forwards and backwards. We hear of all the biochem they hear of but we aren't held to the same standard

Varies from school to school. My school's biochem department was on point and we were expected to know the pathways as well.

 

[explorertx]

Very interesting interview with Dr. Rush former president of AOAO and PD of NOVA's orthopedic surgery residency at Broward Hospital that recruited 2 DOs and 1MD this past cycle.

Episode 4 Dr. Joel Rush | Program Director Insights

Key takeaways:
- believes many programs will not make it to initial accreditation by 2020
- significantly more competitive with almost a tripling of applications their first cycle
- USMLE is now practically a requirement for his program
- his program will slowly stop taking rotating students from other med schools as elective rotations (this used to be a requirement of DO applicants)
- higher expectations of applicants

The programs at broward general are being taking over by FIU and they are sponsoring the transition of the programs and the new PDs will be MDs. Additional residencies that they are planning to open will now be sponsorship of FIU. NSU is slowly being kick out of broward.


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[cbrons]

The COMLEX is a straight up garbage test.

FTFY

 

[throw_away5122]

Here is 2cents from a guy who is interested in academic medicine and will try to become an IR PD.

I don't understand the COMLEX at all and unfortunately I didn't have enough DO colleagues during my training to understand it. All my DO colleagues have USMLE scores (all > 245 I may add) and I understand the effort needed for that score on a personal level.

I will never understand what 400,500,or 600 on the COMLEX mean on a visceral level because I never gone through it, especially when my DO buddy with higher step 1 score told me that the two exams are NOT comparable and it's both easier and harder in a way.

If I become a PD it will be likely that I will require USMLE scores.

I dont know what to tell you, but my school failed at least 2 students last year for failing OMM theory, they had to repeat the whole 2nd year despite passing the general science. A couple of my friend were close to failing too and guess what they had to spend most their time to study for OMM to pass, which is very stressful. And yes, my school emphasize a lot on OMM, we have at least 4 hrs of OMM each week and exam/practical for OMM every block.

 

[68PGunner]

I dont know what to tell you, but my school failed at least 2 students last year for failing OMM theory, they had to repeat the whole 2nd year despite passing the general science. A couple of my friend were close to failing too and guess what they had to spend most their time to study for OMM to pass, which is very stressful. And yes, my school emphasize a lot on OMM, we have at least 4 hrs of OMM each week and exam/practical for OMM every block.

No school makes you repeat an entire year for just failing one class. Your friends are not telling you the entire story.

 

[68PGunner]

I dont know what to tell you, but my school failed at least 2 students last year for failing OMM theory, they had to repeat the whole 2nd year despite passing the general science. A couple of my friend were close to failing too and guess what they had to spend most their time to study for OMM to pass, which is very stressful. And yes, my school emphasize a lot on OMM, we have at least 4 hrs of OMM each week and exam/practical for OMM every block.

This is how I study for OMM exam/practical. Put 30-40 videos of diff OMM technique videos at 2.2-2.6x and power them through 2 days. Always bang out A's on my practicals and low 80s to high 80s on my written exams nowadays depending on how much they want to piss me off with useless questions about OMM history, research, famous people, blah... Usually, 10-12% of our OMM questions are based on straight up garbage facts not worth memorizing. It's hard to honor OMM classes at my school unless you're a complete OMM junkie.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

This is how I study for OMM exam/practical. Put 30-40 videos of diff OMM technique videos at 2.2-2.6x and power them through 2 days. Always bang out A's on my practicals and low 80s to high 80s on my written exams nowadays depending on how much they want to piss me off with useless questions about OMM history, research, famous people, blah... Usually, 10-12% of our OMM questions are based on straight up garbage facts not worth memorizing. It's hard to honor OMM classes at my school unless you're a complete OMM junkie.

That's probably more than most people at my school study for OS tests their entire second year tbh.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Varies from school to school. My school's biochem department was on point and we were expected to know the pathways as well.

Going through FA I don't think anything wasn't mentioned in my biochem class.

Now Histology....

 

[DO2015CA]

Going through FA I don't think anything wasn't mentioned in my biochem class.

Now Histology....

It was all mentioned at my school. We just weren't expected to know the pathways forward and back.

Our histology was quite comprehensive though.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

It was all mentioned at my school. We just weren't expected to know the pathways forward and back.

Our histology was quite comprehensive though.

Shrugs.

like I said, I don't even remember what I did two years ago. But I do know that I could have benefited from some more how to identify what histology training.

 

[Ioannes Paulus]

The programs at broward general are being taking over by FIU and they are sponsoring the transition of the programs and the new PDs will be MDs. Additional residencies that they are planning to open will now be sponsorship of FIU. NSU is slowly being kick out of broward.

hmm that's interesting. The PD doesn't mention that....

 

[MADD!!!]

I'm a nontrad. I know a few things about connections when it comes to competition for a job. Connections won't get you the job if you don't have the baseline credentials. For example, a 220-228 Step 1 isn't going land you an orthopedic residency even if you audition there and impress everyone. Connection will go a long way as icing on an already finished cake. There's no point to work on the icing when you have a crappy base for your cake.

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Charting-Outcomes-US-Allopathic-Seniors-2016.pdf

pg. 135/211

I love being the guy on the forum that says "It's possible to get into Ortho Surg with a 200-220 step 1 score." All of SDN makes it sounds IMPOSSIBLE, but it's not. Proof up above. Then everyone proceeds to tell me it's highly un-probable, and that may be true, but notice how the tone suddenly changes. But for the many readers reading SDN, take what you read here with a grain of salt. Look at the actual data for yourselves and then come up to a conclusion, rather than just reading what others say on here. Also, this has happened to me so I'm sure it's happened to others, but don't let your anxiety get caught up reading these things. The fact is no one knows what's going to happen, just focus on doing good at each step of the way, and my opinion is to just be realistic with yourself. Speak with qualified people to get good information on your particular situation, and leave the anxiety whirlpool of SDN jargon out.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Charting-Outcomes-US-Allopathic-Seniors-2016.pdf

pg. 135/211

I love being the guy on the forum that says "It's possible to get into Ortho Surg with a 200-220 step 1 score." All of SDN makes it sounds IMPOSSIBLE, but it's not. Proof up above. Then everyone proceeds to tell me it's highly un-probable, and that may be true, but notice how the tone suddenly changes. But for the many readers reading SDN, take what you read here with a grain of salt. Look at the actual data for yourselves and then come up to a conclusion, rather than just reading what others say on here. Also, this has happened to me so I'm sure it's happened to others, but don't let your anxiety get caught up reading these things. The fact is no one knows what's going to happen, just focus on doing good at each step of the way, and my opinion is to just be realistic with yourself. Speak with qualified people to get good information on your particular situation, and leave the anxiety whirlpool of SDN jargon out.

Lol are you an allopathic senior? Yes I'm going to be the guy that comes in because what you just posted is so misleading. Yes people match with 200-220 scores, but it won't be a DO. There is a thread over in allo about a posters chances for ortho with a low 220s score, and everyone agrees that the people who match with those kinds of scores have A. Serious connections, B. Killer research and other things, or C. Have something else that we can't see from charting outcomes like they go to a top school (which brings us back to A and B). Turns out that poster checks all of the above, and is still applying to a back up specialty.

 

[grapefruit17]

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Charting-Outcomes-US-Allopathic-Seniors-2016.pdf

pg. 135/211

I love being the guy on the forum that says "It's possible to get into Ortho Surg with a 200-220 step 1 score." All of SDN makes it sounds IMPOSSIBLE, but it's not. Proof up above. Then everyone proceeds to tell me it's highly un-probable, and that may be true, but notice how the tone suddenly changes. But for the many readers reading SDN, take what you read here with a grain of salt. Look at the actual data for yourselves and then come up to a conclusion, rather than just reading what others say on here. Also, this has happened to me so I'm sure it's happened to others, but don't let your anxiety get caught up reading these things. The fact is no one knows what's going to happen, just focus on doing good at each step of the way, and my opinion is to just be realistic with yourself. Speak with qualified people to get good information on your particular situation, and leave the anxiety whirlpool of SDN jargon out.

Possible sure. But I hate to break it you, but it's bad odds when 42 match and 27 don't match ortho as an American md. If you scored between 221 to 230 those are terrible odds; again, as an American md. An md with around a 230 would have so much higher odds at the majority of other specialities. People may match competive specialities and residencies with lower scores then others, but those people usually have a trump card that we don't know about.

Anyways, you first years and ms-0s have the idea all wrong. None of you should even look at things like this until second year starts minimum. See how you're doing in medical school before you try to analyze data, because you may do really well or you may not do as well as you wanted. Just depends. Plus when you take your step 1 and get your results back it will be an indicator of your options, to an extent. The people in my class who didn't match/scrambled were the people who applied above their means.

 

[jrlob91]

No school makes you repeat an entire year for just failing one class. Your friends are not telling you the entire story.

Actually, this can be true if the OMM class is a semester long class and remediations aren't possible right away due to class structuring...

This is how I study for OMM exam/practical. Put 30-40 videos of diff OMM technique videos at 2.2-2.6x and power them through 2 days. Always bang out A's on my practicals and low 80s to high 80s on my written exams nowadays depending on how much they want to piss me off with useless questions about OMM history, research, famous people, blah... Usually, 10-12% of our OMM questions are based on straight up garbage facts not worth memorizing. It's hard to honor OMM classes at my school unless you're a complete OMM junkie.

This is fine for you, but you are sorely mistaken if you don't think people will have trouble with the stupid questions that OMM throws at you. I know multiple people who need to study A LOT just to pass practicals or written exams. It's entirely school dependent and you sound extremely ignorant. No one cares how little you can study and still "bang out A's." The issue is that OMM is a time suck. It may not be for you, but it is quite difficult for others.

 

[JB50]

Why are you guys giving this gunner dude the time of day. He's a sourpuss osteopathic student. Just let him be. OMM is a time sink we get it nobody cares.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Just a reminder that those MDs with 220-230 matching ortho are likely kids from Hopkins and Harvard slumming it out in Kansas or Alleghany general

 

[River Rat]

Just a reminder that those MDs with 220-230 matching ortho are likely kids from Hopkins and Harvard slumming it out in Kansas or Alleghany general

what he said. their step 1 score is an anomalous blip on what would otherwise be considered a stellar academic track record. This past application cycle there was a AOA MD MS4 girl with 260+ step 1 and 10+ interview invites and still went unmatched. She happened to SOAP into an open integrated IR spot though. These singular occurrences that are brought up from time to time are by no means the rule, but the exception. We as DO's are in a disadvantaged position with all else being similar. This is not to say that you can't do whatever you want (one of the most esteemed Rad-Oncs is a DO,) but you better be prepared to make sure your resume has all its ducks lined up in a row, kicks ass and leaves no room for them to speculate that you're nothing short of an equal to their other applicants.

 

[68PGunner]

Actually, this can be true if the OMM class is a semester long class and remediations aren't possible right away due to class structuring...

This is fine for you, but you are sorely mistaken if you don't think people will have trouble with the stupid questions that OMM throws at you. I know multiple people who need to study A LOT just to pass practicals or written exams. It's entirely school dependent and you sound extremely ignorant. No one cares how little you can study and still "bang out A's." The issue is that OMM is a time suck. It may not be for you, but it is quite difficult for others.

I think we're in agreement that OMM is a time suck. The key is to find that little sweet pot of study time needed to pass this block with minimum effort.

 

[68PGunner]

Actually, this can be true if the OMM class is a semester long class and remediations aren't possible right away due to class structuring...

My OMM classes are semester long. People who fail the written exams are forced to take the remediated test the following week. Nobody fail the remediated test here.

 

[MADD!!!]

Lol are you an allopathic senior? Yes I'm going to be the guy that comes in because what you just posted is so misleading. Yes people match with 200-220 scores, but it won't be a DO. There is a thread over in allo about a posters chances for ortho with a low 220s score, and everyone agrees that the people who match with those kinds of scores have A. Serious connections, B. Killer research and other things, or C. Have something else that we can't see from charting outcomes like they go to a top school (which brings us back to A and B). Turns out that poster checks all of the above, and is still applying to a back up specialty.

What I posted was a figure directly from NRMP showing exactly how many students matched and didn't from Allopathic seniors. From there, I said it is possible to match with lower board scores despite comments on this thread that it's impossible. Nothing misleading about that. As it currently stands, the figures are also true on the osteopathic end that students with low scores matched.

Now to say that after the merger DO's with that board score won't match? That's your opinion. We don't know what will happen yet everyone here talks with certainty as if it's a fact without it even occurring yet.

3rd, notice how the tone now changes. First it goes from "if you have a crappy baseline then connections and other things don't matter" to "EXCEPT" then then the exceptions start coming in.

My post isn't to shed light that ppl with low scores should be applying to specialties out of reach, but rather for someone to see their ACTUAL odds (low or high) and making informed decisions based on their individual circumstances. Also to never use the term "impossible" unless we literally see 0 matches with students in those board score ranges.

Also @grapefruit17 I completely agree. I rarely talk/post about these things now and realized I need to wait until I actually receive my step 1 scores to realistically see what options I have for specializing.

 

[Bynumite17]

Why are you guys giving this gunner dude the time of day. He's a sourpuss osteopathic student. Just let him be. OMM is a time sink we get it nobody cares.

You haven't even started DO school yet? Yeah, should probably hold off to actually experience what it means to have OMM on top of everything else.

 

[grapefruit17]

The good news is that a lot of people will discover they're interested in fields that aren't super competitive. For me the only options I was considering were neuro and psych. Both of which are competitive to get into a good program, but def not ortho/em level of course. I thought I would do neuro for the first two years of medical school. Even most of third year, and just had a complete wake up call realizing i was headed in the wrong direction.

Also OMM ranges from super easy-->ridic hard just school dependent. I would rather do a micro exam then an OMM exam because at least i know he answers are black and white. OMM is a strange beast..For comlex 1 i did average on that section and i thought it was SUPER HARD, just obscure stuff about random techniques, theories about cranial (not even restrictions, just theories of how it works), and random other stuff. Step 2 i felt like it was a little better and ended up almost maxing that section out.

Don't put too much pressure on yourself to get a certain score or perform a certain way. Always take a second to stop and enjoy your life. if you don't get a 600 its not the end of the world. Some people who go ortho would probably be happy in other areas of medicine too.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

From my prospective, if you don't plan to use OMM in your future career and you know that for a fact, you should only do the bare minimum you need to pass those exams.

In fact, if you spent an extra hour to ace it, you are being inefficient as you could have used that hour to learn things you will use in your clinical career, spend time with loved ones or do research.

This is another reason, that if I become a MD PD I would have a problem using the COMLEX

How much do OMM weigh in the COMLEX? I would hate to pass up a guy with 590 on COMLEX because he lost 20 points on OMM versus a guy with 610 but all the extra point comes from OMM since OMM isn't a part of my specialty.

I would much prefer if OMM is a letter grade affixed to the COMLEX rather than a part of the numerical score.

 

[JB50]

You haven't even started DO school yet? Yeah, should probably hold off to actually experience what it means to have OMM on top of everything else.

You should probably read more carefully and get off your pedestal. If you resonate with the pissy attitude, congratulations but that doesn't change anything and just makes you and him unpleasant. You entered DO school so stop complaining.

I acknowledged that OMM is most likely an annoyance to like 99% of people. Read bro. Read.

 

[wubalubadubdub]

So with all of this talk of matching into Ortho and other competitive specialties as a DO and how it will be more competitive with the merger, I'm curious what will happen to students like me who plan to do FM or IM in a community program.

Will these programs begin to require research and more requirements due to MDs applying for these spots too?

Just curious as someone who's about to enter school in a couple of months and not interested in going into competitive specialties or academic medicine.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

So with all of this talk of matching into Ortho and other competitive specialties as a DO and how it will be more competitive with the merger, I'm curious what will happen to students like me who plan to do FM or IM in a community program.

Will these programs begin to require research and more requirements due to MDs applying for these spots too?

Just curious as someone who's about to enter school in a couple of months and not interested in going into competitive specialties or academic medicine.

Unlikely to be a problem as far as USMD goes, but PDs may have to toss out more applications from IMGs

Also, programs like arrow head (anywhere in California, Florida or NY) will get more competitive.

 

[Pisiform]

I think it's gonna get harder for DOs even in community IM or FM programs that used to be solely DOs. After the merger MDs and IMGs and FMGs would also be applying... it's gonna get tough imo



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[Drrrrrr. Celty]

From my prospective, if you don't plan to use OMM in your future career and you know that for a fact, you should only do the bare minimum you need to pass those exams.

In fact, if you spent an extra hour to ace it, you are being inefficient as you could have used that hour to learn things you will use in your clinical career, spend time with loved ones or do research.

This is another reason, that if I become a MD PD I would have a problem using the COMLEX

How much do OMM weigh in the COMLEX? I would hate to pass up a guy with 590 on COMLEX because he lost 20 points on OMM versus a guy with 610 but all the extra point comes from OMM since OMM isn't a part of my specialty.

I would much prefer if OMM is a letter grade affixed to the COMLEX rather than a part of the numerical score.

COMLEX is about 15% OMM. Generally they are considered easy points.

OS is honestly an enormous time constraint. It's easily at least 50 hours for OS competencies/ practical examinations, 20 for tests, and then 20-50 hours of lab a semester. The bare minimal is competency, not a C on a test.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I think it's gonna get harder for DOs even in community IM or FM programs that used to be solely DOs. After the merger MDs and IMGs and FMGs would also be applying... it's gonna get tough imo



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You mean the half of them that are empty and in the most random of places? I expect IMGs to shift towards former AOA residencies and more DOs to be matching into ACGME FM than before as those already highly over represent DOs as is.

 

[RotationsSoFar]

You mean the half of them that are empty and in the most random of places? I expect IMGs to shift towards former AOA residencies and more DOs to be matching into ACGME FM than before as those already highly over represent DOs as is.

Who knows, maybe the NSU family med and IM programs will be just as tempted to take the IMGs with 230s/240s on step 1 and 2 over the lesser competitive DOs.

All-in-all, it's safe to say that things will get harder for all of us.

 

[JB50]

Who knows, maybe the NSU family med and IM programs will be just as tempted to take the IMGs with 230s/240s on step 1 and 2 over the lesser competitive DOs.

All-in-all, it's safe to say that things will get harder for all of us.

There's no way. I wouldn't want to be in a program where the PD values a carribean student over a DO. He's got his head in the sand then.

 

[Bynumite17]

You should probably read more carefully and get off your pedestal. If you resonate with the pissy attitude, congratulations but that doesn't change anything and just makes you and him unpleasant. You entered DO school so stop complaining.

I acknowledged that OMM is most likely an annoyance to like 99% of people. Read bro. Read.

Alright then I guess we're going to be super combative.

Listen, all I'm trying to say is that you really have no idea about what kind of time constraint OMM is until you do it. Sometimes you're 5 lectures behind in basic science classes cause of anatomy and then boom OMM practical coming up and you've got to put things aside for another 2-3 days. It's brutal.

My point is that the students here aren't just whining, it's more so the reality...and soon enough you will see it too and agree.

 

[RotationsSoFar]

There's no way. I wouldn't want to be in a program where the PD values a carribean student over a DO. He's got his head in the sand then.

Being a DO students does not automatically make one better than a Caribbean student. There are great and bad students at both programs.

I'd rather have the resident alongside me pull their weight and to foster a good work environment.

And yes, if all else is equal, the DO would get the formerly-osteopathic residency spot over the IMG. But as the nature of now-open-for-all spots goes, more competitive students can and may displace DOs from our formerly protected spots.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Who knows, maybe the NSU family med and IM programs will be just as tempted to take the IMGs with 230s/240s on step 1 and 2 over the lesser competitive DOs.

All-in-all, it's safe to say that things will get harder for all of us.

How many of them are there?

 

[RotationsSoFar]

How many of them are there?

Give me one moment, I'll try to find good sources to place an exact number

Edit:

There were 5300 IMG and 7400 FMG applicants last cycle.
Mean usmle ~220.
About half matched (huge portion of matches being in lesser-desired locations)

This means a huge majority of the 12700 foreign grads will absolutely want our current protected spots.

We have ~30-40 FM programs in sought-after locations.

Competition will get rough for us on all levels.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

There are two things I worry about the merger for the sake of DO students

1. Cementing the DO degree as a (largely) primary care degree. DO students used to have their own subspecialty training that are a lot more attainable in general than ACGME subspecialty training.

2. Being squeezed by both sides: competitive MDs take spots from previously secure specialities and IMGs from primary care spots.

I think the short term effect is a lot of growing pain. We will have to see how t pans out long term.

The issue with DO discriminations is the same issue with "closet trump voters".

Folks who have no first hand experience with DOs besides arguing with pre DO kids on the forum are more likely to be discriminatory, and those are often "lifers" who have gone through the entire train of training in top 10 places.

Many of those people, who are young or fresh out of training now, will be in charge of future ACGME GME selection.

More over, they aren't necessarily vocal about how they see medical training. They may simply filter DO applicants out, or interview and not match them, or interview them and rank them equally only if their USMLE scores 40 points higher.

If I ever become a PD I vow to keep MD and DO candidates on equal footing if they performed equially well. This whole prestige thing is a real but is also real BS

 

[grapefruit17]

Whats the issue with closet trump voters? I feel like half of SDN threads have the word trump mentioned at least once now, lol.

Anyways, sure theres DO discrimination. Its not right, and everything should be merit based once you're in medical school. But how many DOs look down on IMGs and Caribs? DOs should be on equal footing of american MDs in the same way that caribs should be equal footing with us. I would rather work with a carib grad over a DO if the carib grad has a positive personality and is someone who is a motivated hard worker. Some of the responses about caribs/IMGs on SDN are a little disturbing.

 

[wjs010]

USMLE was easier than comlex. Lol. 240 USMLE and didn't quite get 600 comlex. Almost though. USMLE is more fairly balanced and representative of FA and comlex can harp on random things multiple multiple times. n=1 though.


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[AnatomyGrey12]

USMLE was easier than comlex. Lol. 240 USMLE and didn't quite get 600 comlex. Almost though. USMLE is more fairly balanced and representative of FA and comlex can harp on random things multiple multiple times. n=1 though.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

One of my buddies told me he literally got a bunch of questions on random bioterrorism. He said he almost laughed in the middle of the test